M1 mapping problem

Richard · 17-01-2009 3:14pm #1

Looking through boards posts I notice several people stating that the (Irish) M1 goes as far as Newry. It doesn't, of course - it becomes the N1 before the border and then the A1. Looking at Google Maps and ViaMichelin, however, they actually show the M1 going to the outskirts of Newry! This is particularly surprising since NI has its own M1 which predated the southern one by about 20 years.

Are any SatNavs similarly affected?

Random · 17-01-2009 3:19pm

Google Maps shows clearly that the M1 finishes before Newry
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ireland&sll=43.819599,-93.129066&sspn=0.010435,0.019312&g=newry&ie=UTF8&ll=54.155297,-6.327953&spn=0.067753,0.154495&z=13

Our man in Havana · 17-01-2009 3:48pm

The M1 finishes at junction 18. It then becomes the N1 as a HQDC until the border where the A1 takes over.
Google is clearly wrong.

Random · 17-01-2009 4:48pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

The M1 finishes at junction 18. It then becomes the N1 as a HQDC until the border where the A1 takes over.
Google is clearly wrong.

I misread the original post then .. I read it as he was pretty much saying the M1 goes to Newry on Google Maps. They do seem to have missed the N1 though.

Bluetonic · 17-01-2009 5:00pm

Incorrectly labelled on the southern end also.

They have the M50 labelled as M1 after J3.

Victor · 17-01-2009 5:33pm

Port Tunnel toll plaza is the N1! :pac:

I've sent an e-mail to someone I know in google to see if we can talk to someone.

Richard · 17-01-2009 6:58pm

Victor wrote: »

Port Tunnel toll plaza is the N1! :pac:

I've sent an e-mail to someone I know in google to see if we can talk to someone.

So far, I've seen it incorrect on:
Google Maps
Multimap
Viamichelin

It is correct on
Mapquest
Yahoo Maps
Map24

I wonder why this is...

Victor · 17-01-2009 7:12pm

(a) Map makers get the same wrong information from the same source, e.g. a surveying company or member of the public.

(b) Copyright infringement.

Chris_533976 · 17-01-2009 9:10pm

The M7 also goes into the middle of Mountrath

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mountrath&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.240201,114.257812&ie=UTF8&ll=53.004093,-7.443752&spn=0.036051,0.11158&z=14

L1011 · 17-01-2009 10:00pm

They have the road the right colour, though which is even weirder.

BluntGuy · 17-01-2009 10:43pm

I've noticed that most online maps are hideously out of date.

Only openstreetmap seems fully up-to-date, but it's not as comprehensive as the other maps when it comes to minor roads.

Chris_533976 · 18-01-2009 12:05am

We need more mappers with GPSes

Look at Munich on OSM. The level of detail is phenomenal, and pisses all over what Google etc have to offer.

GerardKeating · 18-01-2009 1:24am

Victor wrote: »

Port Tunnel toll plaza is the N1! :pac:

I've sent an e-mail to someone I know in google to see if we can talk to someone.

I thought they made the Port Tunnell the M50 ???

jaceq · 18-01-2009 12:13pm

Richard wrote: »

So far, I've seen it incorrect on:
Google Maps
Multimap
Viamichelin

It is correct on
Mapquest
Yahoo Maps
Map24

I wonder why this is...

There are two major companies that make MAPS, one is TeleAtlas, they make maps data and sell that to google.com, also many satnavs uses their maps like TomTom, some maps for iGo / miomap are from teleatlas as well.
There is also Navteq mapping company, they sell their maps to eg. microsoft (maps.live.com), and also some satnav companies like: Navigon, Route66 and some iGo/ miopmap maps.

If You'll check Dublin, differences are quite substantial in street, their position and naming.

Bottom line is, if You found that there is something wrong on maps.google.com , there is no point to tell them, they only buy ready map data. Instead go to teleatlas site and fill out "correction form" (YES, they do have this on their site!!!!!!).

If more people would fill out those forms we would have better maps!!

bk · 18-01-2009 6:58pm

The real root of this problem, is that Ordnance Survey Ireland won't make their maps available to only and GPS services for reasonable money, like most other countries do.

This forces Teleatlas and Navteq to map the roads using GPS cars, which is far less accurate.

Personally I'm disgusted by this, after all OSI are employed and paid for by all our tax money and therefore the info should be made freely available for others to use.

JupiterKid · 18-01-2009 8:36pm

Yes, it's high time there was a major reform with copyright legislation pertinent to OSI mapping data. The current legislative position is woefully outdated and totally unsuitable for the digital mapping era.

Richard · 19-01-2009 10:17pm

bk wrote: »

The real root of this problem, is that Ordnance Survey Ireland won't make their maps available to only and GPS services for reasonable money, like most other countries do.

This forces Teleatlas and Navteq to map the roads using GPS cars, which is far less accurate.

Personally I'm disgusted by this, after all OSI are employed and paid for by all our tax money and therefore the info should be made freely available for others to use.

What about OSNI?

ardmacha · 19-01-2009 10:45pm

The view taken by European mapping agencies, as distinct from the situation in the US, is that mapping data should be paid for by the user, to reduce the cost to the taxpayer. The OSI is no more unreasonable than many countries, so companies like Mapflow have built independent mapping databases.

You can argue for free public data, but European countries prefer to have things like free education and health and charge for maps.

Cool Mo D · 19-01-2009 10:54pm

I don't the maps have to be free - just available at a reasonable price. With a bit of negotiation, the mapping companies could have good maps, and the OSI some cash, and everyone would be better off.

bk · 20-01-2009 1:50am

Cool Mo D wrote: »

I don't the maps have to be free - just available at a reasonable price. With a bit of negotiation, the mapping companies could have good maps, and the OSI some cash, and everyone would be better off.

Exactly my point. From what I heard the amount of money that OSI wanted was so great, that it was cheaper for the likes of Teleatlas to buy cars and expensive GPS mapping gear and to pay guys to drive around the country mapping roads!!

In most other European countries, the mapping companies were able to reach a fair deal, but not in Ireland. How does it benefit the Irish taxpayer, if the amount OSI charge is so great, that no one is willing to pay for it?

We just end up in a typical Irish situation, where no one gains, due to the pig headiness of Irish bureaucrats. OSI save the taxpayer no money, as no one is willing to buy the maps from them and the public doesn't gain from having accurate GPS info.

gjim · 20-01-2009 10:57am

ardmacha wrote: »

The view taken by European mapping agencies, as distinct from the situation in the US, is that mapping data should be paid for by the user, to reduce the cost to the taxpayer. The OSI is no more unreasonable than many countries, so companies like Mapflow have built independent mapping databases.

You can argue for free public data, but European countries prefer to have things like free education and health and charge for maps.

It's not a question of simply whether to charge or not but the cost. The OSI have priced themselves out of the market. By the time they realise what is going on they'll have been made almost irrelevant I believe by private GIS data companies and the likes of OSM. Your contrast with education and "free" health is somewhat facile to be honest. Heath and education costs the exchequer in the region of 20 billion euro a year - do you really think that the fees recovered by the OSI are relevant in comparison?

A story: 12 or more years ago, when the web was still considered somewhat esoteric in Ireland, I was involved in a web project which would have benefited from having maps. We wanted to offer a simple map based location guide as part of a directory; believe it or not this was a novel idea at the time.

We approached the OSI who didn't even have a pricing model for what we were trying to do; so they asked for "the average" number of simultaneous users of the site. We explained that it would be a somewhat meaningless figure in the context of web technologies even if the site were already up and running. They were insistent so for the sake of progressing things we came up with a figure (below 10 I think). They gave us a quote as if each "simultaneous" visitor had complete access to their entire GIS database. Needless to say, the 120k or so (pounds) a year they asked for killed the idea.

We attempted to negotiate for something reasonable but they had little interest - whether they got any "sales" or not seemed to be irrelevant. We also offered to "choke back" access to that part of the site but they'd lost interest once we stated that 120k wasn't even in the ballpark of what we could afford (we were a tiny company).

Their attitude I believe put online GIS back years in Ireland as it wasn't until the commercial companies started filling the void (relatively recently) that online maps which cover Ireland started appearing. Like I said at the start the OSI are now irrelevant in this area; had they been more reasonable with their pricing and had they been a little more visionary they could have made money from their assets. Instead they continue to behave like the monopoly they once were seemingly oblivious to the changing marketplace for their "product".

mackerski · 24-01-2009 4:14pm

OpenStreetMap has already been mentioned on the thread, but let's mention it again. Contributing to OSM is a very good way of scratching the that-map's-wrong itch, and the more of us that do so, the sooner we will achieve levels of OSM coverage here in Ireland that are already reality in countries like Germany, NL and UK (well, GB anyway).

Here are some current statistics of the route lengths currently in the OSM database. Go out and fill some gaps!

jlang · 25-01-2009 2:13pm

There's a problem at the N1 Dublin end of the Google map too. The Port Tunnel seems to be marked N1 and "Grace Park Road" for it's entire length!

M1 mapping problem

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