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Luas gauge question?

RicardoSmith · 2004-10-26 20:48:03

I've read that the Luas uses European gauge rather than mainline rail gauge. I've heard rumours that both lines use a different gauge though? I suspect this is just urban myth though. I've read that it will be different and thus incompatible with any Metro system?

26-10-2004 9:48pm

#1

RicardoSmith

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I've read that the Luas uses European gauge rather than mainline rail gauge. I've heard rumours that both lines use a different gauge though? I suspect this is just urban myth though. I've read that it will be different and thus incompatible with any Metro system?

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#2 26-10-2004 9:51pm

seamus

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There are two stories I've heard here:

They're both the same gauge.

They are different gauges because one is going to link up with an underground/urban light rail system eventually.

I'd go for option A

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#3 26-10-2004 9:56pm

A Dub in Glasgo

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Both lines use the Standard European Gauge of 1,435mm. the CIE gauge is 1,600mm. The CIE guage is quite wide and it can be argued that it is too wide for street running.

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#4 26-10-2004 10:30pm

Victor

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RicardoSmith wrote:

I've heard rumours that both lines use a different gauge though?

Next person to repeat this poo is banned.

They increased the distance between the two tracks (tracks = rail + sleeps + base) on part of the Green Line (Sandyford) so the Luas could be upgraded to Metro standard with trains running faster etc.

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#5 27-10-2004 12:46am

RicardoSmith

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Victor wrote:

Next person to repeat this poo is banned.
...

Sorry. Just close the thread...

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#6 27-10-2004 1:27am

Victor

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RicardoSmith wrote:

Sorry. Just close the thread...

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#7 27-10-2004 2:37am

John R

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Just to prove the point one of the shorter red line trams is to be transferred to the green line to cover for the shortage caused by the three collision damaged units currently out of service.

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#8 27-10-2004 10:08am

enterprise

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God, every time I hear that b*******e story my blood bolis! The Irish Times even mentioned (AGAIN) on Monday.

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#9 27-10-2004 10:09am

enterprise

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John R wrote:

Just to prove the point one of the shorter red line trams is to be transferred to the green line to cover for the shortage caused by the three collision damaged units currently out of service.

Yes, John. See my post in LUAS out of action. I haven't got offical confirmation of it actually happening. It will be interesting if it does.

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#10 27-10-2004 10:22am

RicardoSmith

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enterprise wrote:

God, every time I hear that b*******e story my blood bolis! The Irish Times even mentioned (AGAIN) on Monday.

Write/ring in and correct them...

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#11 27-10-2004 10:49am

sliabh

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To be fair they could be getting confused with the loading gauge. This came up in a post a while back:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1865550&postcount=6

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#12 27-10-2004 11:12am

BrianD

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Just to prove the point one of the shorter red line trams is to be transferred to the green line to cover for the shortage caused by the three collision damaged units currently out of service.

Would be cool to see that! Looks like the Red line is going to have a shortage as well as the collisions on that line seem to be more severe.

Are you sure that the damaged units on the Red line are not already back in service. Though I saw one of the two units yesterday though I would be hard pressed to remember the fleet numbers.

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#13 27-10-2004 11:20am

RicardoSmith

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sliabh wrote:

To be fair they could be getting confused with the loading gauge. This came up in a post a while back:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1865550&postcount=6

Is that different from the distance between the two tracks (tracks = rail + sleeps + base) as Victor described it.

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#14 27-10-2004 11:20am

m4cker

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enterprise wrote:

Yes, John. See my post in LUAS out of action. I haven't got offical confirmation of it actually happening. It will be interesting if it does.

oh believe me it did. major pain in the ass getting home from work that night had to wait f***kin ages

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#15 27-10-2004 11:29am

sliabh

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RicardoSmith wrote:

Is that different from the distance between the two tracks (tracks = rail + sleeps + base) as Victor described it.

Nope, its the same thing. Track gauge is the seperation between the two rails the tram/train runs on, and the loading gauge is the distance between the two sets of tracks. The track gauge is the same for the Red and Green lines. The loading gauge is different. As was said earlier this is as the Green line design assumes that the line is to be upgraded to Metro in the future.

There is more info on Wikipedia and at this link

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#16 27-10-2004 12:06pm

enterprise

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Im not sure about the trams on the Red line, however I have not seen 4002, 4007, and 4012 since their incidents, plus with Connex saying a reduced service is in operation at the peak on the green line reinforces my theroy that the 3 trams are still out of service.

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#17 27-10-2004 12:06pm

RicardoSmith

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So then its correct to say the gauge is different between both lines, if only in one section. But then you need to clarify that it doesn't prevent the trams being transferred between line. (how do they do this BTW?)

Well I'm glad I posted now and have learnt some thing. Even if its that Victor like to use the word "poo". urrgghhh.

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#18 27-10-2004 12:07pm

enterprise

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RicardoSmith wrote:

Write/ring in and correct them...

I might just do that!

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#19 27-10-2004 12:11pm

optiplexgx270

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enterprise wrote:

however I have not seen 4002, 4007, and 4012 since their incidents

What a complete and utter geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!!!!!!!

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#20 27-10-2004 12:24pm

enterprise

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optiplexgx270 wrote:

What a complete and utter geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse me?

As there are only 14 trams on the green line and its a bit hard to miss the numbers as they are in huge white numbers on the side of the trams you tend to see what trams are running when I travel on the system to commute into town.

Have some respect for your fellow posters - and an apology would be nice as well.

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#21 27-10-2004 12:25pm

sliabh

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RicardoSmith wrote:

So then its correct to say the gauge is different between both lines, if only in one section.

No the gauge is the same. For these purposes (and for the slow of learning like Taxi drivers and Indo hacks) all that matters is the track guage.

RicardoSmith wrote:

But then you need to clarify that it doesn't prevent the trams being transferred between line. (how do they do this BTW?)

There is nothing to prevent the trams getting moved. The width of the tracks is the same for both lines. The only difference is the gap between two passing trams. This seperation is the "loading guage" and is larger on the green line to allow for a metro. Operationally it would make no difference to the red line trams running on the green line (or vice versa)

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#22 27-10-2004 12:25pm

sliabh

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enterprise wrote:

Excuse me?

As there are only 14 trams on the green line and its a bit hard to miss the numbers as they are in huge white numbers on the side of the trams you tend to see what trams are running when I travel on the system to commute into town.

Have some respect for your fellow posters - and an apology would be nice as well.

I thought in these circles being called a geek was a compliment?

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#23 27-10-2004 12:30pm

optiplexgx270

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enterprise You will be a LONG time waiting. and as for "I travel on the system to commute into town. " so do i but im not looking at the numbers ..... you light rail spotter.

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#24 27-10-2004 12:32pm

A Dub in Glasgo

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The term kinematic envelope is better than loading gauge and it is how I understand it.

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#25 27-10-2004 12:33pm

enterprise

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optiplexgx270 wrote:

enterprise You will be a LONG time waiting. and as for "I travel on the system to commute into town. " so do i but im not looking at the numbers ..... you light rail spotter.

ah p*ss off

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#26 27-10-2004 12:34pm

RicardoSmith

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sliabh wrote:

No the gauge is the same. For these purposes (and for the slow of learning like Taxi drivers and Indo hacks) all that matters is the track guage.

I assume you mean gauge....

I don't think that its too hard a concept is someone could be bothered to explain it properly. But with the lazy reporting we get these days, that almost never happens.

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#27 27-10-2004 12:36pm

RicardoSmith

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optiplexgx270 wrote:

enterprise You will be a LONG time waiting. and as for "I travel on the system to commute into town. " so do i but im not looking at the numbers ..... you light rail spotter.

This from someone who has a PC model number as his username....

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#28 27-10-2004 12:44pm

jlang

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RicardoSmith wrote:

But then you need to clarify that it doesn't prevent the trams being transferred between line. (how do they do this BTW?)

Split into sections and lift onto on the back of a lorry round the M50. Or they could build the missing bit of track down Dawson St and around Trinity.

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#29 27-10-2004 12:45pm

optiplexgx270

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System.console.WriteLine("well at least it aint train spotting OR more importantly star trek");

dispose(RicardoSmith);
dispose(enterprise);

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#30 27-10-2004 12:52pm

RicardoSmith

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optiplexgx270 wrote:

System.console.WriteLine("well at least it aint train spotting OR more importantly star trek");

dispose(RicardoSmith);
dispose(enterprise);

...uncommonly geekish repartee......

jlang wrote:

Split into sections and lift onto on the back of a lorry round the M50. Or they could build the missing bit of track down Dawson St and around Trinity.

I thought they too heavy to transport via road. Obviously not. Have they transferred any yet?

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#31 27-10-2004 1:03pm

A Dub in Glasgo

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How did they get from the docks to the depot?

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#32 27-10-2004 1:18pm

RicardoSmith

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A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

How did they get from the docks to the depot?

jlang wrote:

Split into sections and lift onto on the back of a lorry....

I'd guess.

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#33 27-10-2004 2:30pm

MrPudding

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Yeah by lorry. My GF was getting a ferry from France and was talking to the blokes that were bringing them over.

MrP

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#34 27-10-2004 2:45pm

sliabh

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MrPudding wrote:

Yeah by lorry. My GF was getting a ferry from France and was talking to the blokes that were bringing them over.

MrP

I will make no comment about your GF chatting up truckers on the ferry

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#35 27-10-2004 8:13pm

Victor

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optiplexgx270 wrote:

What a complete and utter geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!!!!!!!

The word is tram spotter.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The term kinematic envelope is better than loading gauge and it is how I understand it.

Is "kinematic envelope" = the safe distance between the shock force between the fronts of two passing trains?

optiplexgx270 wrote:

you light rail spotter.

Oi! Thats me.

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#36 27-10-2004 8:15pm

MrPudding

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Yeah. You can imagine how happy I was when I heard

MrP

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#37 27-10-2004 9:03pm

Victor

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RicardoSmith wrote:

I thought they too heavy to transport via road.

You can apply for a permit for moving extra heavy loads. They moved a 300 tonne generator from the port to one of the new power stations last year.

In any case half a tram would only weigh 20-30 tonnes.

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#38 28-10-2004 5:43pm

RicardoSmith

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Victor wrote:

You can apply for a permit for moving extra heavy loads. They moved a 300 tonne generator from the port to one of the new power stations last year.

In any case half a tram would only weigh 20-30 tonnes.

Didn't realise they were that light!

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#39 28-10-2004 6:03pm

bus77

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The story Í heard was the trams had differnt gauges because one is reuseing the old harcourt street line.

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#40 28-10-2004 9:54pm

A Dub in Glasgo

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Both trams have the same track gauge (distance between the rails). The Sandyford tram is using the old Harcourt Street alignment.

Victor - The term Kinetic Envelope is hopefully best described by the following Q&A

http://www.railway-technical.com/Q-and-A-page.html#Structure-Gauge

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