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Protection Order Query

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  • 16-09-2014 7:46pm
    #1
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭


    Hey lads, just wondering if a person has a protection order granted against a spouse and the spouse breaks it and goes up in front of the judge and tells lies trying to say its the other person making lies against them what usually happens?

    The person who the order is protecting has two family members in the home over 18 who can back their claims up. Would they have to go up in front of the judge or can the Gardai take their corroborating statements and just present them in court?


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    #2
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    It's a Garda prosecution, so Gardai will advise on the evidence that they want to present, but I'd expect that they will ask witnesses to attend.


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    #3
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭The Governor


    Cheers is it mandatory that the Gardai have to have their witnesses to attend? Without going into much lets say they simply mentioned theyd take statements off the witnesses, is the simply enough to present?


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    #4
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    This sounds like a prosecution for breach of protection order. If so, it would be a criminal charge.

    In a criminal case, live witnesses are needed, rather than statements.

    Statements would be objected to and excluded as hearsay, unless the people who made the statements went to court to give the relevant evidence.

    Gardai may take statements, but I would expect that they would bring witnesses to court.


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    #5
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭The Governor


    The Mustard wrote: »
    This sounds like a prosecution for breach of protection order. If so, it would be a criminal charge.

    In a criminal case, live witnesses are needed, rather than statements.

    Statements would be objected to and excluded as hearsay, unless the people who made the statements went to court to give the relevant evidence.

    Gardai may take statements, but I would expect that they would bring witnesses to court.

    Ok thanks for the helpful info :)


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    #6
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    You're welcome.


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    #7
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭The Governor


    Oh sorry I meant to ask, if the witnesses are in court do they stand in front of the judge and he asks them questions or will the opposition solicitor get to question them as well?


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    #8
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    The defence has a right to cross examine the witnesses.


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    #9
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭The Governor


    Thanks I figured as much. Now if the aggressor tried to have a protection order granted (if they were malicious minded and petty) against the spouse who originally had an order against them what would a judge do, is it even possible considering there's one there anyway?
    Also if the person who has the order served against them tried something sneaky like getting a barring order (I'm aware there needs to be a protection order first but lets assume they got one if possible in this scenario) would their at least be a hearing for it where the innocent party and their witnesses could prove the aggressor as lying?

    I appreciate all your help and sorry for taking all your time :)


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    #10
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    The Governor wrote: »
    Thanks I figured as much. Now if the aggressor tried to have a protection order granted (if they were malicious minded and petty) against the spouse who originally had an order against them what would a judge do, is it even possible considering there's one there anyway?
    It isn't really possible to answer this accurately without knowing full facts or without knowing the judge in question. (Please don't give the facts!) However, assuming that the judge isn't a fool, he or she might realise that there is a history which required the court to grant a protection order to protect one party from the other. What I am saying is that one would hope that a judge would see through an apparent ruse, especially as so many family cases are bitter disputes.
    The Governor wrote: »
    would their at least be a hearing for it where the innocent party and their witnesses could prove the aggressor as lying?
    There would be a full hearing for a barring order. The respondent would have a chance to make his/her case and defend himself/herself.

    Also remember that if the District Court hearing does not go well, there is the possibility of appeal. There can be significant cost in appealing to the Circuit Court though, so those who qualify for legal aid might want to consider doing so.


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    #11
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭The Governor


    The Mustard wrote: »
    Also remember that if the District Court hearing does not go well, there is the possibility of appeal. There can be significant cost in appealing to the Circuit Court though, so those who qualify for legal aid might want to consider doing so.

    If both parties have legal aid, is there any costs then?


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    #12
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Lt_Columbo_Social_Media_Strategiest_AISMedia.jpg
    The Governor wrote: »
    If both parties have legal aid, is there any costs then?

    1. If a party has legal aid, he pays a nominal enough fee to the Legal Aid Board, and he is legally represented. In other words, this pays for the cost of his solicitor and counsel. You can check this with the Legal Aid Board, as I am not certain of what exactly is covered by a legal aid cert. in such circumstances.

    2. Judges are slow to make awards of costs against legally aided parties.


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    #13
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    The Mustard wrote: »
    Lt_Columbo_Social_Media_Strategiest_AISMedia.jpg

    Fecking loved that show.


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    #14
    The Governor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭The Governor


    Hate to update but lets say it seems a barring order may need to be applied for in this scenario as well as both witnesses (2 adults living in same house) have been advised to get their own protection orders as well by the Gardai after we'll say an incident perpetrated on one and threatened on the other by the aggressor.

    I was just looking up barring orders and while a solicitor would def be used at this stage I just wondered what are the chances of this person being barred from the home if their are three making statements of all the trouble the person is causing? Lets just say they are very worried and fearful :(


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    #15
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    The Governor wrote: »
    I was just looking up barring orders and while a solicitor would def be used at this stage I just wondered what are the chances of this person being barred from the home if their are three making statements of all the trouble the person is causing? Lets just say they are very worried and fearful :(

    It's just not possible to say, without all of the facts.

    Even if you gave all of the facts of one side of this case, the other side may have a different version of events.

    All that I can say is that an experienced solicitor is what is needed to answer these questions now.


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