The Corrib Tape

Tragedy wrote: »

Only if someone who you told the joke to made a complaint.
If an employer started bugging your office without your consent or knowledge(even accidentally) and then used that against you, you would be looking at quite a large settlement figure after litigation.

Are you proposing we fire the guards in question but offer them six figure sums each?

Most modern offices are recorded by CCTV and there are signs stating such on the way in.

In a former place I worked I had to tell a courier company what the van which had picked up a package looked like. The head of security was able to punch in the time and date and hey presto, he could follow me walking from my desk to reception and meeting the courier, handing the package over and then follow the courier walking back to his van. This was all with sound.

Never presume in any office that you are not being recorded.

eroo wrote: »

Anyone who takes videos on youtube as evidence really shows themselves up. Indymedia and other rent-a-mob groups edit these videos to show peaceful flower child strolling along a road, then cut to him being arrested. They usually leave out the bit where he refused to get up off the middle of the road blocking traffic, after being told to move so as to prevent injury to himself and others.

Despite what those protesters may think, they are not above the law. Yes they have a right to protest, but that does not entitle them to do anything they please.

I agree that anyone who takes a single source as the truth, hasbn't a leg to stand on in a discussion. Indymedia/youtube is just another source from a single point of view. as is RTE, TV3, FOX news, al jazera, wikileaks, forum posts, blogs etc... it is only by comparing and contrasting the different reports of events can one try to come to an informed decision.

your idea of indymedia editing video to make it look like the flowerchildren getting arrested is an over simplification. some videos show gradai clearly going over the line an any context. To suggest that indymedia somehow fabricated this kind of footage is ridiculous. they would need the computer imaging technology of jurassic park and cinematoghraphy skills of Stanley Kubrick to fabricate such secenes.

The protesters may feel they are above the law (they risk their safety to block diggers etc.), but the Shell Oil Company ARE above the law and regualtory processes, they have been found bribing and influencing governments of other countries, and have been suspected of doing the same here. these suspicians have not been investigated by the gards. why? there is no evedence? with crimes like this there will be no evedence until you investigate records and paper trails, bank records etc.

You guys ever watch the HBO show The Wire? it seems to me the attitude of irish policing in general seems to be the 'western district way' - busting heads of the little guy, dope on the table, priorities change according to stats. Wouldn't you guys even be intrested in taking a moment to investigating this kind of corporate crime. walk up to a shell executive, or a corrupt politician, or a property developer, and hand them a summons. "Real po-loce"

that's what I'm saying, indymedia is just a source, biased in so far as it's made and in the editorial control of independent activists, often participants of a protest. take for example the footage of the love ulster riot in Dublin. Indymedia coverage showed the few gardai there doing an excellent job in breaking up a rabble of opportunist scumbags gone out of control.

stockyboie wrote: »

i don't think people are critising the gardai. I think people recognise most of gardai do a good job under difficult circumstances and an anteqated court system, however this kind of behaviour needs to be stamped out. Simple as. There is no excuse for this at all and anyone making excuses could be viewed as part of the problem.

Making jokes about rape is not funny in any context. Anyone who thinks making rape jokes is funny has mental health issues. Its especially not funny when police officers are making the joke private or not. Even a 10 year old could tell you that.

In fact them making it in private is even worse. Makes people wonder if this kind of behaviour is inherent in a little 'club' to which only serving officers are privy too. The fact that a people on this forum are making excuses makes me wonder and im sure the general public wonder also if it is just isolated. .

The joke is inappropriate and needs to be stamped out.

So does the insinuations the 2 women made, "I'm not getting in the car with them".

stockyboie wrote: »

thanks for confirming my comments for me...nice work..:pac:

I find it is better to elaborate on these things.

Why, am I confirming what seems to your biased comment?

stockyboie wrote: »

yup i agree the way to go for this country is gardai carrying out lawsuits. Lets start suing people for deformation of character. what right have they got to complain about cops making comments about rape. None. They should just shut up or put up. Silly citizens. What do they know?

Seeing as you changed your post while i was quoting the previous post, I will also respond to this one. If the members involved get disciplined or fired because of this recording then yes the do have grounds to take a lawsuit. The recording is inadmissible in any court, due to the way it was recorded, and therefore cannot be used as evidence against the Gardai. No as I said in my previous post the implied right of privacy in this country means that they have no right to complain the members about these specific comments about rape.

If the members had stood within earshot of the persons and made comments then yes there would be grounds for a complaint, but not when the comments are made in private.

The last 2 lines I won't change......."Silly citizens. What do they know?" It would appear in this instance very little. If the Gardai arrested these two women, or anyone for that matter, based on an illegally made recording such as this one then there'd be war. But because of the nature of the comment the Gardai made, the fact that this is an illegally made recording goes out the window..........There's a feeling here of let the witch hunt commence.

Terrontress wrote: »

So, can you search a female prisoner in a cell?

Would you take a first interview from a rape or child abuse victim?

Obviously I defer to your better knowledge but I would be surprised if there was not some consideration given to an officer's gender when dealing with females.

Do you subscribe to the notion above that a female, when female officers are present, who requests to be dealt with by females is wrong to do so?

No I cannot, search a female prisoner, however a female cannot search a male either, so I don't know where you're going with this point?

Yes I have and I know a number of other male members who have taken rape statements. The one I took turned out to have been a lie on the part of the woman.

While you asked these questions directly of PSNI, I felt i should answer too, Yes I do subscribe to your last point, as do the majority of female members I know. I have received exactly the same training as my female counterparts, Let me expand on your question......Should a Gay person be allowed demand to speak to a Gay Garda, A black person, demand a black Garda, A jewish person demand a jewish Garda, A muslim person demand a muslim garda, No because every person in An Garda Siochana is trained to the same standard.

Also most of the time a female asks to speak to a female Garda it has nothing to do with rape or sexual assault. They just feel more comfortable talking to a female, what happens if a female is not working that night? Which is a possibility in the country stations.

Having lived in the UK for many years this thread reminds me of the comments made by serving officers during all the Police scandals there. It was considered a matter of honour to defend your mates at all cost. It resulted in massive corruption & Irish men being sentenced for crimes that they did not commit.

It is a sad indication of where the Gardai are, in terms of respect, that people speak out in their support. It is an honour to be allowed to enforce the law & the public have to be sure that Gardai do so without any preconceived or prejudicial thought.

If this incident had happened in many other countries the officers would be in very serious grief. How can an officer who considers rape to be a joke ever be trusted in his, often sensitive, everyday work ?. How can a woman report a rape or sexual assault if she worries that the Gardai might consider it a joke ?.

These men have no place in the the Gardai & neither do any who support them.

k_mac wrote: »

He didn't consider rape to be a joke. He considered the idea of him being a rapist to be a joke. There's a big difference there.

I listened to the "tape" & read the transcripts. To me there is little doubt of what was said or implied. It is quite possible that, in the near future, a Guard will be interviewing an alleged assault or rape victim. They will be doing all they can to treat the victim with sympathy & understanding. The actions of the officers on the tape seriously prejudice this process. They undermine confidence in the Gardai. What will the officer say - "we are not all the same ?"

There is every possibility that their actions will put people off reporting rape & thereby allowing an offender to stay free to re-offend. It is disappointing that none of the officers sought to admonish or disassociate themselves from the remarks.

The "private" lives & comments of Gardai are relevant. Many years ago a friend of mine married a Police Officer in England. At the reception I was asked what I wanted to drink & I said Coke, as I was driving. Another officer came over & joked "Ah you are with friends now" & gave me his card - to give to anyone who stopped me on the way home.

Discodog wrote: »

Actually it often is. Guards have to deal with lost children, the children of those arrested, abused children, they even go to schools. The Guards promote their child friendly image as they should. We want our children to grow up respecting the Guards & to not feel any fear in approaching a Guard.

I believe that we have lots of applicants who want to be Guards so we can afford to choose the best.

most kids are brought up being afraid of Gardai as parents usually threaten them by saying that they'll call they Gardai if they don't behave! but other kids have no problem with chatting to a Garda.

I've had a listen to the tape, I'd have more concern for their ability to choose a ladder than the "rape" comments. It was meant in jest, nothing serious. I'm actually surprisedit got this far.

As for male female thing. Something of interest that was brought up a while back.

For a Female to request a female is seen as reasonable and people seem to have no issue with this.
For a male to request a male its an insult to the female and often not catered for.

goldie fish wrote: »

In the early days there was a suggestion that the only reason there was Women in the Gardai was to look after lost children and make tea for the Super.
Terrontress seems to subscribe to this view, rather than accepting that there are no women Gardai, there are just gardai.

If there are regulations in place which make restrictions based on gender, which nobody is denying, then my point stands.

Your post betrays more about you than about me and I shall thank you not to put words in my mouth. Is misrepresenting people a speciality of yours?

psni wrote: »

What is "it" when you say "It all depends on your definition of comfort", and why have you resorted to defining words all of a sudden? Male and female officers who "provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses" are trained to the same standard by the same people - it is not a role exclusive to, or reserved for female officers. It is a role performed by both male and female officers.

Both male and female officers search suspects and prisoners. That's our ROLE. We perform the same ROLE. You're picking at the tiniest of things in a desperate attempt to be right at something AND notably you've completely abandoned your outrageous initial statement of:



The best piece of advice I can give you is learn when to back down. You've made an outrageous statement, you can't back it up when challenged, and you've resorted to grasping at straws and picking at words.

If you don't get it now, you never will. You were wrong. Swallow your pride and just accept it.

If I were to state that the sole role of a female police officer was to do something, anything at all, different to a male colleague then your rants might have some merit.

As it stands, it appears that I have somehow rattled your cage and you have overreacted to an innocuous statement.

I can't seem to find the tape anywhere, is this it?

Taggart: I got it! I got it!
Hedley Lamarr: You do?
Taggart: We'll work up a Number 6 on 'em.
Hedley Lamarr: [frowns] "Number 6"? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one.
Taggart: Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course.
Hedley Lamarr: You spare the women?
Taggart: Naw, we rape the shlt out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
Hedley Lamarr: Marvelous!