Blundering Judge... UPDATE

fortuneteller · 23-06-2011 3:51pm #1

I was one of only two people that turned up in court in bray in may to answer a speeding summons.Because the garda did not show up we were both told by the judge individually that it was our lucky day and the charge against us was been struck out...The remaining no shows were fined 250 euro in their absence..i recieved a notice today of a fine of 250 euro eventhough the judge told me he was striking out the charge....The person listed before me was a no show so i walked up...This judge in his haste to get through the cases(he turned up 2hours and 15 mins late for the court) mistook me for this no show person , so now he has my strike out and i have his conviction....Can anyone advise me im up the walls:eek:

23-06-2011 3:54pm

How do you know he has a strike out?

fortuneteller · 23-06-2011 4:00pm

Because i was told the 1st two cases were struck out...i was 3rd up...this judge must have thought i was this individual....thanks for your input he was 2 and half hours late for court and was rushing through the cases.

The only two that turned up were me and an elderly lady and, the person listed second was a no show.

23-06-2011 4:57pm

fortuneteller wrote: »

Because i was told the 1st two cases were struck out...i was 3rd up...this judge must have thought i was this individual....thanks for your input he was 2 and half hours late for court and was rushing through the cases.

The only two that turned up were me and an elderly lady and, the person listed second was a no show.

Who told you the first two were struck out? Just trying to sort out the important facts from your rant about the judge when, in actual fact, the Registrar is the person who perfects the orders the judge makes so it was likely a clerical error rather than a judicial one.

fortuneteller · 23-06-2011 5:05pm

The judge wrote on my charge paper convict, the district office pulled it out this morning.so it was the judge according to the bray court office...I have been told also that the first two charges were struck out...the second person on the list didnt show so i was the second person before the judge....im lucky i have a witness a prison officer was talking to me in the court while we were waiting for the judge to arrive, and i have his name...Thanks for your input.

23-06-2011 5:08pm

fortuneteller wrote: »

The judge wrote on my charge paper convict, the district office pulled it out this morning.so it was the judge according to the bray court office...I have been told also that the first two charges were struck out...the second person on the list didnt show so i was the second person before the judge....im lucky i have a witness a prison officer was talking to me in the court while we were waiting for the judge to arrive, and i have his name...Thanks for your input.

What sort of advice were you looking for? Still far more likely to be a clerical error.

dermot_sheehan · 23-06-2011 5:16pm

Need to have the district court office list it before the same judge again for an application under the "slip rule" Order 12 Rule 17
http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/e36122b3cdf0111080256d2b0046a097?OpenDocument

When it's called in court, mention that you were there on the last occasion, there was no garda attendance, that the court ordered the charge be struck out but recorded it on the incorrect summons.

fortuneteller · 23-06-2011 5:26pm

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

Need to have the district court office list it before the same judge again for an application under the "slip rule" Order 12 Rule 17
http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/e36122b3cdf0111080256d2b0046a097?OpenDocument

When it's called in court, mention that you were there on the last occasion, there was no garda attendance, that the court ordered the charge be struck out but recorded it on the incorrect summons.

Thanks a mill.
Was told by court office the only way was to appeal the convictions so i was given a date for monday next.This judge is not from the area and was only standing in...Thanks for that advise Dermot, i'll look it up now

fortuneteller · 23-06-2011 9:34pm

This judge was from a different district and was only standing in at bray....Can i apply to have slip rule applied under a different judge...or do i have to track this judge down to his regular area and apply in his district court office..????
Has anyone an idea on this.....
Also can i ask to speak to the court clarke that was there on the day...surely she has some responsibility for this mess..???
Thanks in advance

dermot_sheehan · 24-06-2011 5:24pm

a judge can only make an order when sitting in the relevant district so you can't apply to the same judge sitting in another district.

Another judge can hear the application but the problem is they wouldn't have been there on the first occasion and wouldn't remember you and need to believe that the Judge sitting meant to strike out your summons but struck out the wrong one.

You can ask the clerk if that judge will be sitting in the District any time soon and to have it listed before him.

supermonkey · 24-06-2011 5:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What sort of advice were you looking for? Still far more likely to be a clerical error.

You really love the Irish judiciary don't you Kayroo. Must be nice living in a world where children have rights and the law doesn't get ripped up for the powerful.

24-06-2011 6:59pm

supermonkey wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What sort of advice were you looking for? Still far more likely to be a clerical error.

You really love the Irish judiciary don't you Kayroo. Must be nice living in a world where children have rights and the law doesn't get ripped up for the powerful.

Ah it's not bad yeah:)

Don't really see where you're getting that from though. Judges make mistakes all the time, it's why we have appellate courts. Children do have rights by the way.

fortuneteller · 24-06-2011 9:29pm

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

a judge can only make an order when sitting in the relevant district so you can't apply to the same judge sitting in another district.

Another judge can hear the application but the problem is they wouldn't have been there on the first occasion and wouldn't remember you and need to believe that the Judge sitting meant to strike out your summons but struck out the wrong one.

You can ask the clerk if that judge will be sitting in the District any time soon and to have it listed before him.

Thanks a mill again...Have a hearing on monday morning, but with regular local judge, what happened was i walked up when the person listed before me didnt appear on the second call...i should have remained seated, the judge must have assumed i was him....but i did say my name...perhaps he didnt hear me....please god ill get it sorted at next hearing...Thanks the slip notice, really made a difference.

Victor · 27-06-2011 4:00pm

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

a judge can only make an order when sitting in the relevant district so you can't apply to the same judge sitting in another district.

Another judge can hear the application but the problem is they wouldn't have been there on the first occasion and wouldn't remember you and need to believe that the Judge sitting meant to strike out your summons but struck out the wrong one.

You can ask the clerk if that judge will be sitting in the District any time soon and to have it listed before him.

Can one summons a judge as a witness?

Kosseegan · 27-06-2011 4:04pm

Victor wrote: »

Can one summons a judge as a witness?

Technically yes. It is considered very bad form to do so.

fortuneteller · 27-06-2011 4:36pm

I appeared in court this morning on foot of my application under Slip rule...
I explaned to the sitting judge that i had already appeared and was told by the orignal judge that the charge against me was being struck out...I provided the judge with a witness statement of someone that saw me at the orignal hearing...I explaned that due to the non appearence of the prosecuting garda the judge had struck the case out, but recorded it on the incorrect summons.....1st he put me back two houre to a second hearing then...When i got up the second time all he said was come back on october 3rd when the orignal judge will be here next..

....
Now the court office has rang me and said i have to go back again tomorrow in front of the same judge as i was today and apply to have a stay on the penalty points......and bring 500 euro in cash for a bond for your appeal......And all this is being dumped on me because of a clerical error by the court......So NOT fair....:(

coylemj · 27-06-2011 4:51pm

At the risk of backseat modding, you don't update an existing thread by starting a new one.

fortuneteller · 27-06-2011 5:15pm

coylemj wrote: »

At the risk of backseat modding, you don't update an existing thread by starting a new one.

Your right...of course, sorry.;)

fortuneteller · 27-06-2011 5:58pm

Victor wrote: »

Can one summons a judge as a witness?

I have to wait now from today till october 3rd for this judge to come back to bray, Then stand up infront of the court and say...judge..you made a mistake 4 months ago, when you struck out the wrong summons....he's surely going to want to hear that...or remember me...:mad:

Victor · 28-06-2011 1:21am

Kosseegan wrote: »

Technically yes. It is considered very bad form to do so.

Is it bad form to write to a judge? What with justice meant to be done in public and all that?

loremolis · 28-06-2011 9:55pm

Victor wrote: »

Is it bad form to write to a judge? What with justice meant to be done in public and all that?

That's a really good question.

While I don't know the answer, I can't see anything wrong with the idea if a copy of the letter is sent to the other party.

Perhpas if the judge read the letter out in court that would create enough transparancy for justice to be done in public.

dermot_sheehan · 28-06-2011 10:18pm

a letter should never ever be sent to a judge,

I'm closing this thread, best of luck to the OP getting the clerical error fixed

Blundering Judge... UPDATE

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