Spray painting a car

mufflets2 · 26-04-2015 10:19am #1

Hi all

I have a Pajero Sport that I need to get sprayed. it was originally a council vehicle and is a bright yellow colour (now with a few grey patches where it needed a bit of body work and has grey primer over filler ect.) so it doesnt need to be a concourse job but has to be respectable.

The cost of a professional respray is too much and I have a bit of experience spraying my own Motorbike panels and a few small things i am also fairly handy and hope to do the respray myself.

I am leaning towards a matte black as Im told that Matte is a bit easier. first time out

any advice from someone who has done this before would be greatly appreciated

Heres the plan.

fill and fix any dents or body repair.
Wash the car.
Sand the whole thing lightly with 320 grit (not sure)
wash the car
remove any trim that can come off easily
wipe it over with some kind of paint prep/wax/oil remover stuff. (recommendations Please)
tape up everything
Erect my 20x10ft garden tent around the car.
Rub it down with tack cloth.
Spray on two coats of dark primmer
Sand with 1200 or 800 grit (not sure)
wash the car
tack cloth again probably (not sure)
spray 2 or 3 coats of matte (not sure)
remove the tape the next day

What ye reckon

also I am selling my small compressor for a bigger one what should I be looking for. what is the minimum required to do this job ???

also anywhere good for buying the materials ?? im in North Dublin

All Advice appreciated.

goz83 · 26-04-2015 3:15pm

If you're not entirely sure and you don't already have the materials, go to www.gvdautos.com

Price list is online

26-04-2015 4:26pm

Without an oven the finish will be appalling imo.... Temps are never high long enough to let a sprayjob dry thoroughly.

Hachiko · 26-04-2015 5:07pm

why are them prices so cheap.

brembo26 · 26-04-2015 5:12pm

how about getting it wrapped instead?

mufflets2 · 26-04-2015 7:49pm

There must be someone out there who has sprayed a car (without an oven)
anyone???

_Brian · 26-04-2015 10:59pm

I rember being in London, late 70's. Visiting relations.

Guy a few doors down sprayed his car in the street. Nice sunny day, no oven there.

mufflets2 · 26-04-2015 11:09pm

There are guys spray painting cars in Ireland today as well without ovens and I am hoping to hear from one.

michael999999 · 26-04-2015 11:14pm

mufflets2 wrote: »

There are guys spray painting cars in Ireland today as well without ovens and I am hoping to hear from one.

Jesus man.

If you go spraying a vehicle in a tent with no extractor the fumes will kill you.

Plus the mist from the spray will stay in the air, and gradually fall back down onto the vehicle deadening any finish you had on it.

Do you know how to keep a wet edge when spraying?

mufflets2 · 26-04-2015 11:33pm

No I don't know how to keep a wet edge while spraying

JohnBoy26 · 27-04-2015 1:30am

Without proper equipment you won't get anywhere near a good finish and at the end of it all you will probably wish you never got rid of the yellow after seeing the results.

You would need proper breathing apparatus too if spraying with 2k paint. An ordinary mask won't do for this job.

If I was in your position I'd get the Gray areas properly repainted and just put up with the yellow colour tbh.

goz83 · 27-04-2015 1:44am

Hachiko wrote: »

why are them prices so cheap.

To keep them busy I would imagine. I have had loads of work done there.

SuperS54 · 27-04-2015 6:02am

I remember many moons ago an elderly neighbour decided to respray his Japanese import himself with spray cans. I seen the finished result and it was absolutely terrible, there was paint everywhere, on the wheels, tires, windows...he noticed me looking at the paint all over the side windows where he obviously hadn't bothered to mask anything and came out with the winner...."Ah sure the wind was agin me..." So don't spray outdoors with no masking in the wind!

colm_mcm · 27-04-2015 7:44am

Even harder nowadays with paint being water based

slimjimmc · 27-04-2015 9:29am

Your air compressor needs to be able to supply enough air without having to stop and build up pressure, and you need a matching spray gun. This guy recommends you use a low volume low pressure spray gun as it's more suited to the relatively low capacity of DIY compressors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu3KxqH7mM0

27-04-2015 10:01am

_Brian wrote: »

I rember being in London, late 70's. Visiting relations.

Guy a few doors down sprayed his car in the street. Nice sunny day, no oven there.

The finish was impressive no doubt

A factory 70s finish would be brutal to today's standards.

kona · 27-04-2015 12:05pm

As mentioned I'd wrap it. Or get it professionally done, no point in spending money and time of a crap spray job.

Too many variables when spraying outside.

slimjimmc · 27-04-2015 12:56pm

Also I would have thought a matte finish to be much more challenging for a novice. At least with a gloss you can rub down and polish out paint runs and other defects, not sure how that would work with matte.

You could save a lot on a pro spray job by doing much of the prep yourself, removing trim and refitting afterwards, sanding/filling, etc. Buying the correct equipment and consumables is not cheap either.

Donnelly117 · 27-04-2015 1:17pm

I'd sooner try to wrap a car myself then paint it... Definitely easier to correct any mistakes and get a better overall finish I would think.

MetzgerMeister · 27-04-2015 1:27pm

I've sprayed alloys, brake calipers, brake disc hubs, trim and different panels in the wind and I can tell you, it's not easy unless it's a still summer's day with no wind.

Having a heat gun is a big advantage to bake the paint but this would only be for small areas. When spraying a whole car, you can't really do a panel at a time, bake it and then move on because your technique will differ from panel to panel in that case.

mullingar · 27-04-2015 1:43pm

When it comes to spraying a car, you can never spend too much time in the prep.

When painting a car there are two main coats, the colour coat and the clear-coat. The colour coat is just mixed with thinners. The clearcoat has 2 distinct types, 1K and 2K (1k = 1 part, 2k = 2 part). The 1K has no hardener and dries slowly and a half decent 3M cartridge face mask should do the job (1K is hard got as its unpopular). The 2K stuff is VERY nasty thanks to the synthetic hardener but very quick drying. A full positive pressure head mask is required. 2K is stronger than 1K too so a lot more immune to stone chips.

All that an oven does is speed up the drying time, it will not make the finish any better.

For DIY spraying booth?, A gazebo with a shed load of sealing tape to block off all air except for a spot for 2x large extractor fans and 2x inlet vents with filters... Dust is your main enemy.

Toyotafanboi · 27-04-2015 1:45pm

you know what. it's an ex council yellow pajero, covered in dents and bodged repairs to begin with, not a classic mercedese or something. i certainly can't see giving it a lick of matte black making it notably worse. i'm not a fan of the matte black finish, but if it's nothing more than a workhorse and the yellow is a bit garish for you, then go for it. in my limited experience with matte black aerosols (mostly painting small trim pieces etc) it appears to go on easy and dries pretty much instantly which makes it easier to work with.

my only real concern in this process would be the prepwork, you'd need to make sure no yellow could be seen around the door jambs. wheel arches, bumper gaps etc or then it will look nasty, otherwise it'l be a grand job in fairness.

i don't even think i'd do half your prep work, just give it a quick scrub with a fine sandpaper, wash it and degrease it and paint away. i'd do it outdoors of a sunny, still day too, chances of grit clinging to the matte black is small enough, but spray a few cans of it in a tent and you will pass out.

if it turns out that down the line some areas are chipping etc, you can just buy another can of matte black and touch it up. that stuff blends fairly ok.

166man · 27-04-2015 2:07pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you know what. it's an ex council yellow pajero, covered in dents and bodged repairs to begin with, not a classic mercedese or something. i certainly can't see giving it a lick of matte black making it notably worse. i'm not a fan of the matte black finish, but if it's nothing more than a workhorse and the yellow is a bit garish for you, then go for it. in my limited experience with matte black aerosols (mostly painting small trim pieces etc) it appears to go on easy and dries pretty much instantly which makes it easier to work with.

my only real concern in this process would be the prepwork, you'd need to make sure no yellow could be seen around the door jambs. wheel arches, bumper gaps etc or then it will look nasty, otherwise it'l be a grand job in fairness.

i don't even think i'd do half your prep work, just give it a quick scrub with a fine sandpaper, wash it and degrease it and paint away. i'd do it outdoors of a sunny, still day too, chances of grit clinging to the matte black is small enough, but spray a few cans of it in a tent and you will pass out.

if it turns out that down the line some areas are chipping etc, you can just buy another can of matte black and touch it up. that stuff blends fairly ok.

+1.

Sure give it a whirl and if it turns out rubbish just get it done properly. As TFB said its a rough Pajero lads, dropping €2k on a respray would be utterly pointless.

I mean....how hard can it be?

Toyotafanboi · 27-04-2015 2:23pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I did half a door on an old car and I spent ages getting it right. In the end it looked great but I spent far too much time on it. Doing an entire car would be tough to get it to look half decent. But if you dont care about the finish sure why not :pac:

he's spraying it matte, which doesn't really require any finishing, he also isn't trying to match it to an existing colour.

power pants · 27-04-2015 3:08pm

There was someone on this forum who had a navy blue alfa 156 and he decided to spray it himself outside job too.

It was beyond **** tbh, he eventually realised this too when people finally started to be honest and give their true thoughts on it

username?! · 27-04-2015 3:25pm

just wrap it. You would be mad not to, especially since you want a matt finish.

mufflets2 · 27-04-2015 4:07pm

166man wrote: »

+1.

Sure give it a whirl and if it turns out rubbish just get it done properly. As TFB said its a rough Pajero lads, dropping €2k on a respray would be utterly pointless.

I mean....how hard can it be?

Thats my thoughts. Cheers

mufflets2 · 27-04-2015 4:10pm

username?! wrote: »

just wrap it. You would be mad not to, especially since you want a matt finish.

got a quote of €2900 to wrap it , theres a lot of twists and edges on a pajero

MarkR · 27-04-2015 4:15pm

What about plastidip? Either that, or for what it is, how bad could it get? It'll probably look like something out of mad max, but it'll be better thay yellow! Any pics of that alpha?

JoeySully · 27-04-2015 4:16pm

Have you looked into using rustolum and painting it with a roller ?

*Kol* · 27-04-2015 4:24pm

If you are doing it matt I would use a foam roller to do it. It will look okay and you have less chance of getting the black lung from all the sanding and spraying you were planning on doing. It would be nearly as quick as spraying, more forgiving when applying as you don't have to worry about wet edges etc and very few consumables required and only a small bit of masking. I would try it on a panel as an experiment at least. I have seen it done on aircraft touch ups and the results are acceptable.

_Brian · 27-04-2015 6:41pm

For a DIY job how about Coach Paint or Coach Enamel, I'm not quite sure which to call it...

http://www.smithandallan.com/products/tekaloid-paint/1442-tekaloid-318-formerly-bg18-single-pack-coach-enamel-all-colours

It can be brushed on, sanded, polished or whatever..

I think its probably where I'd be thinking for your job.. And it saves all the faf about compressors or dust ...

visual · 27-04-2015 6:59pm

Couple of large tins of hammeright smooth black painted on with brush or roller. It is textured finish so will hide all your sins.

If you diluted it with car thinners you can spray it on too.
All you need is a clean surface that has been sanded to allow the first coat something to grip to and while the paint is still tacky give it another coat.

It's not show room finish but it will look better than rap and last longer than your Jeep.

P'S. It wouldn't really work for a car but it would add to the rugged look of a Jeep

I go with spray on a jeep as there is a lot of area to cover. 3 coats would give you a good finish no undercoat needed

tcawley29 · 28-04-2015 2:50pm

I use rattle cans from Top Part and find them excellent color match tbh. Very easy to use. just apple and dry with a hair drier or heat gun. Very easy to spot blend within a panel aswell.

Agricola · 28-04-2015 3:10pm

I've some experience spraying panels on cars of various colours, both cans and compressor gun. Bought an old diesel 3 series a few years back which needed some filling on the front arches and around the rear wings. Since the car was black and was worth small money, I gave it a go. Best I can say about the results was that when it came time to sell it, the fella who bought it off me never mentioned anything about the paint, despite going over the whole car with a fine tooth comb. Black is VERY forgiving though. I managed to get an even finish but I never got the same shine from those panels as I did from the polished original paint on the rest of the car. Put a lot of time into it, no rushing and wet sanded between coats so much I swore I would never touch car paintwork again. Even after all that, it was a decent job but not near good enough for a whole car. Certainly not in anything other than black.

You could probably get away with a respectable matte black finish if you put the effort in, but I'd steer clear of it personally.

mufflets2 · 28-04-2015 4:36pm

Agricola wrote: »

I've some experience spraying panels on cars of various colours, both cans and compressor gun. Bought an old diesel 3 series a few years back which needed some filling on the front arches and around the rear wings. Since the car was black and was worth small money, I gave it a go. Best I can say about the results was that when it came time to sell it, the fella who bought it off me never mentioned anything about the paint, despite going over the whole car with a fine tooth comb. Black is VERY forgiving though. I managed to get an even finish but I never got the same shine from those panels as I did from the polished original paint on the rest of the car. Put a lot of time into it, no rushing and wet sanded between coats so much I swore I would never touch car paintwork again. Even after all that, it was a decent job but not near good enough for a whole car. Certainly not in anything other than black.

You could probably get away with a respectable matte black finish if you put the effort in, but I'd steer clear of it personally.

Many thanks for that anything in particular that you would do differently..?
Or what you reckon of my procedures list.?

Ps it has been recommended that base/clear is an easier job first time out

winnie the schtink · 28-04-2015 5:07pm

try rolling a pert of it ,saw a range rover rolled in NATO green and it looked the biz also depending an what colour you want have a look at TRACTOL paint it can be mixed to anything on the RAL colour chart ,this would cut your cost about 25 a litre

JustLen · 28-04-2015 5:16pm

This should give you something to think about.
Id imagine if you got results close to what this guy got you would be happy.

Never heard of using a roller before untill now, looks fairly straightforward.
like you say its a work horse that just needs to look respectable.

I assume it would be easier to do in black instead of the white he uses. Not sure if the racing stripes would suit a Pajero tho :-)

www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint

Edit: cant post the link but just google " 50 dollar paint job rick wrench"
Maybe someone could post a link

mufflets2 · 28-04-2015 5:19pm

winnie the schtink wrote: »

try rolling a pert of it ,saw a range rover rolled in NATO green and it looked the biz also depending an what colour you want have a look at TRACTOL paint it can be mixed to anything on the RAL colour chart ,this would cut your cost about 25 a litre

are you serious about rolling. you mean with a paint roller like painting walls?????

JustLen · 28-04-2015 5:21pm

mufflets2 wrote: »

are you serious about rolling. you mean with a paint roller like painting walls?????

Have a look at the link i tried to post above, never heard of it myself but looks like it might suit your needs

Toyotafanboi · 28-04-2015 5:32pm

JustLen wrote: »

This should give you something to think about.
Id imagine if you got results close to what this guy got you would be happy.

Never heard of using a roller before untill now, looks fairly straightforward.
like you say its a work horse that just needs to look respectable.

I assume it would be easier to do in black instead of the white he uses. Not sure if the racing stripes would suit a Pajero tho :-)

www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint

Edit: cant post the link but just google " 50 dollar paint job rick wrench"
Maybe someone could post a link

tasty bit of work, but the price is right. you'd probably do it over a warm weekend.

http://www.rickwrench.com/index79master.htm?http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

Agricola · 28-04-2015 5:37pm

mufflets2 wrote: »

Many thanks for that anything in particular that you would do differently..?
Or what you reckon of my procedures list.?

Ps it has been recommended that base/clear is an easier job first time out

Not much I could do differently to be honest, bar setting up a proper dust free environment for spraying and building an oven!
I spent a lot of time with tutorials and they did indeed help a lot, but as others have said heat is a major factor in a good paint finish and it's probably the main reason for any issues Ive had with various work Ive done. Too warm an environment (gas heaters around the panel) and the paint flashes too quick which results in a dull end result. Too cool / damp and you end up with moisture, giving a foggy finish. Getting that mirror reflection in car paint is an art and a science imo.

Your list of steps and grits used seems ok. I did 600 on primer. I also wet sanded the top coat before lacquer and wet sanded the lacquer 2 weeks later. So you will avoid all that hardship.

Tbh, I like the idea of some of the posters here. Since it is a Pajero, maybe look in to doing something a bit less involved that would give the thing a rough n ready industrial looking paintjob. It would both suit it perfectly and be far less difficult to get right.

krissovo · 28-04-2015 7:57pm

JustLen wrote: »

www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint

Edit: cant post the link but just google " 50 dollar paint job rick wrench"
Maybe someone could post a link

I did similar to a vintage VW except I used Toplac High Gloss Marine paint, worked really well. Very expensive paint but worth it.

*Kol* · 28-04-2015 8:50pm

mufflets2 wrote: »

are you serious about rolling. you mean with a paint roller like painting walls?????

Use a foam roller. You will get a good finish.

mufflets2 · 01-05-2015 10:10am

Thanks for all contributions
The roll on paint looks like a real option however
I like learning new things and will have the time in the summer to do it carefully and want to learn more about spray painting
(and who doesnt like buying new tools)

I take the point with the fumes and will get a good respirator. and can leave one side of the Marque open being carefull with dust.
I reckon ill go for a good 100l compressor
and I think that a basecoat/clear coat is easier to correct any mistakes first time out
Whats the story with the Enamel or coach paints can they be sprayed and easily corrected.?

Cheers

P.S its going to be a great job I might post a few pics

catastrophy · 01-05-2015 11:00am

This might sound a bit unusual but have you considered a marine paint like toplac? It's extremely tough, easy to spray or roll and is really forgiving as it "settles". Limited range of colours but it does polish up well. Just use barcoat first (although I'd be using that anyway).

mufflets2 · 01-05-2015 2:35pm

No . But I will look into it- what do you mean "Use barcoat first" ?
do you need a clearcoat over it?

catastrophy · 01-05-2015 2:53pm

mufflets2 wrote: »

No . But I will look into it- what do you mean "Use barcoat first" ?
do you need a clearcoat over it?

Barcoat is an isolating layer. It stops paint reacting which can be an issue when you use different paint types. It goes on after the bodywork is done and before the new primer.

No need for a clear coat with toplac. It's as tough as old boots and will maintain a polished look. When it's sprayed it settles to an orange peel like texture but then settles further to a flat shiny finish.

catastrophy · 01-05-2015 2:56pm

Re barcoat I should say it stops different paint layers reacting. If you ever have seen a topcoat of freshly sprayed paint blistering it's likely to be a reaction with the layer of paint underneath it.

mufflets2 · 01-05-2015 3:18pm

catastrophy wrote: »

Barcoat is an isolating layer. It stops paint reacting which can be an issue when you use different paint types. It goes on after the bodywork is done and before the new primer.

No need for a clear coat with toplac. It's as tough as old boots and will maintain a polished look. When it's sprayed it settles to an orange peel like texture but then settles further to a flat shiny finish.

Ok -I get it . thanks ,that sounds good . Cheers

mgbgt1978 · 01-05-2015 8:01pm

A lot of the 'enamels' that are advertised nowadays (especially if they're listed for Industrial use) can take months, even years, to dry without the proper Thinners.
You can get cellulose delivered to your door at very reasonable rates. It will spray fairly well and can be sanded & compounded to give a decent finish.
Have a look here for colours;
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Car-Workshop-consumables/Other-/_i.html?_nkw=cellulose&submit=Search&_fsub=1&_sid=822926805
They have a huge range of colours, this link is just to get you into their ebay shop

...and either order from there (using Parcel Motel) or google 'Wilson , Lendrum and Weir' for their N. Ireland landline and AFAIK they are still sending paint down South by courier.
Vinny Byrne (online again) for all your Thinners, Fillers, Compound etc.

Also, put a bit of Thinners on a rag and wipe the existing paint. If the rag turns yellow (in your case) then you are not dealing with existing Enamel and Cellulose should go on without any problem.

Spray painting a car

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