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2016 Toyota Avensis

13

Comments

  • #102
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,478 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    They weren't new cars though.


  • #103
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    166man wrote: »
    To be fair, you only drove them for 1-2 years if I'm reading that correctly. I wouldn't expect that much to go wrong...!

    How many of your used Alfas gave 1-2 years trouble free driving......

    I find it hilarious that the Avensis and Duster manages to wind so many people up so much.

    And for the record I've had 2 MK1 Avensis and both were bullet proof until they suffered driver failure. Both were comfortable and both were fine to drive. Never had an issue with the MK2 either. I've less experience if the mk3 so I wouldn't like to comment on that.


  • #104
    Trebor176
    Registered Users Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭Trebor176


    It looks pretty good, in my view. I always liked the Carina E, the MK1 Avensis, but was never sure of the MK2, but the MK3 is a stylish car. If you think the 2016 Avensis looks bad, you may not have seen the Mirai, which may be coming to Europe next year. I don't know what Toyota were thinking when they designed this:

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/89490/toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-review-pictures#0


  • #105
    166man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    They weren't new cars though.

    True, but they were only three years old when he got them and he sold them on after a year or two.
    ba_barabus wrote: »
    How many of your used Alfas gave 1-2 years trouble free driving......


    The newest Alfa I owned was 12 years old, we are talking three year old cars here with full histories. Hardly comparable I'd have thought.


  • #106
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    166man wrote: »
    True, but they were only three years old when he got them and he sold them on after a year or two.
    The newest Alfa I owned was 12 years old, we are talking three year old cars here with full histories. Hardly comparable I'd have thought.
    Well going on the above assumption and forgetting about age, his mileage on the cars after 2 years would have been very high. Yet he still encountered no problems from a "****e car". Exactly when does it become acceptable for a failure to occur? On a low mileage old car or a high mileage new car?

    I completely get that people find the likes of the Avensis dull and boring. I did when I had them. But I've always found them very well built, cheap to maintain and pretty much unbreakable unless they're being abused. Far from ****e, but maybe not as enjoyable as other cars. And when a Monday morning Carina E was owned in the family the service and backup from Toyota was pretty exemplary to say the least.


  • #107
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    Well going on the above assumption and forgetting about age, his mileage on the cars after 2 years would have been very high. Yet he still encountered no problems from a "****e car". Exactly when does it become acceptable for a failure to occur? On a low mileage old car or a high mileage new car?

    I completely get that people find the likes of the Avensis dull and boring. I did when I had them. But I've always found them very well built, cheap to maintain and pretty much unbreakable unless they're being abused. Far from ****e, but maybe not as enjoyable as other cars. And when a Monday morning Carina E was owned in the family the service and backup from Toyota was pretty exemplary to say the least.
    My problem with Toyota in general these days, and the Avensis is the example to offer, is that when you think of the Carina E, back in 1992, it came out at a time when the excellent 405 was beginning to age, the Passat was stupidly priced so no one bought it, the Primera was fine, but not fantastic, and the Mondeo hadn't come on stream yet. The Carina E looked excellent compared to the competition, was as reliable as any car will ever get for the rest of time (accountants will see to that), and did everything well including offer a sense of pride of ownership. People used comment on it. That was just their bread and butter car. They also had Celica Carlos Sainz edition GT4's, Supra twin-turbo's that gave Ferrari drivers a headache, slightly hot versions of pretty much every division, a lovely looking MR2, and every single one of them built to a benchmark standard that will always be the peak of manufacturing quality over cost.
    Nowadays, the current Avensis is still at the Toyota premium price, but just doesn't hold a candle to it's competition. It's an also-ran. Sure, it's reliable, and does it's job competently, but the competition is strong these days. Compentency isn't enough. The Passat and Mondeo might as well be in a different class. The aging Insignia feels more premium even. The Optima and i40 feel better value, and the Superb is more car for not much more money. The Legacy is better value and better to drive. The almost ten year old 159 still looks great and has proven itself to be reliable too. It's like Toyota aren't even trying. That's the problem.


  • #108
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    It's like Toyota aren't even trying. That's the problem.

    I don't disagree with anything you've just said. I still think it's unfair to call it ****e. It's bland, boring, average in the class etc etc but it's not ****e.

    As for the piece I quoted, I genuinely believe they aren't trying as it's not going to be replaced. They've covered their costs with it and a reworking of it will help it limp along until they decided on a replacement which i imagine will come in the form of some kind of crossover.

    And that's a great pity but a sign of the market in which it competes.


  • #109
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    I don't disagree with anything you've just said. I still think it's unfair to call it ****e. It's bland, boring, average in the class etc etc but it's not ****e.

    As for the piece I quoted, I genuinely believe they aren't trying as it's not going to be replaced. They've covered their costs with it and a reworking of it will help it limp along until they decided on a replacement which i imagine will come in the form of some kind of crossover.

    And that's a great pity but a sign of the market in which it competes.
    Ah I guess people just like drama when making a point. In truth, every car on sale today is decent compared to some proper crap that went before. But we pick the favourites on merit of appealing characheristics and dismiss the rest as "shíte". It's easier that way! An Irish trait!
    Like if someone asked if they should buy a Dacia Sandero or a Mk 7 Golf, with the stipulation that money doesn't matter. We'd all stress that the Golf is good all around (even if there are others that might be better in some way), and we'd stress that the Sandero is shíte. Because if we said "it's not bad" we might convince them to buy it!


  • #110
    166man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    Well going on the above assumption and forgetting about age, his mileage on the cars after 2 years would have been very high. Yet he still encountered no problems from a "****e car". Exactly when does it become acceptable for a failure to occur? On a low mileage old car or a high mileage new car?

    I completely get that people find the likes of the Avensis dull and boring. I did when I had them. But I've always found them very well built, cheap to maintain and pretty much unbreakable unless they're being abused. Far from ****e, but maybe not as enjoyable as other cars. And when a Monday morning Carina E was owned in the family the service and backup from Toyota was pretty exemplary to say the least.

    Missed the part where he said he did 35k per annum. In that case fair enough, his cars seemed to have proven themselves.

    By S***e I was more referring to the general quality of the cars. Cheap alloy wheels that on a 2010 car had already suffered lacquer peel, cheap thin poor quality paint. A plasticky interior with a gearknob worn out after 70k km for example.

    Then I add in that it was bouncy in the corners, steering was lazy and it just wallowed in general. Wasn't exactly quiet on the motorway either.

    So take the reliability part aside for a second, and in general I thought very little kf that Mk3 Avensis.


  • #111
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    It is gas that when you try and get people to the knub of their toyota 'hatred' it pretty much always boils down to the interior plastics. If the only thing that's worn out after 70k is the plastic on the gear knob, things are going ok. As i've said before, a VW enthusiast would call that a patina.


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  • #112
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Toyota fans can be also seen defending Magnolia on interior decorating forums.


  • #113
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    Toyota fans can be also seen defending Magnolia on interior decorating forums.

    but isn't that just the point.

    every avensis owner who has commented in this thread has had nothing but great things to say about their avensis.

    every BMW/ Alfa/ German car fan who has walked into this thread has categorically said they are ****e.

    but you are comparing chalk and cheese. some people don't mind a bit of extra hardship for a better driving experience or whatever, but the single main reason people buy an avensis is so they know they have a car that will start every morning and never throw up much in the way of unexpected breakdowns or repairs and as long as toyota keep churning out cars that are in some way reliable, they will continue to do well.

    Toyota don't market themselves on how handsome their cars are, nor their racing background or the driving experience, nor their "german-ness". they market themselves on reliability and really, i think they still are still right up there in the reliability stakes.

    me personally, i would rather a dependable car than a pretty car, but that's just me. in my mind, a cars primary function is to take me places with as few complications as possible, looks and "experience" would only come as bonuses and this is what toyota offers. other people (and there's nothing wrong with it) would prefer a stunning car and spend every other weekend under the bonnet, keeping it going.


  • #114
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    but isn't that just the point.

    every avensis owner who has commented in this thread has had nothing but great things to say about their avensis.

    every BMW/ Alfa/ German car fan who has walked into this thread has categorically said they are ****e.

    but you are comparing chalk and cheese. some people don't mind a bit of extra hardship for a better driving experience or whatever, but the single main reason people buy an avensis is so they know they have a car that will start every morning and never throw up much in the way of unexpected breakdowns or repairs and as long as toyota keep churning out cars that are in some way reliable, they will continue to do well.

    Toyota don't market themselves on how handsome their cars are, nor their racing background or the driving experience, nor their "german-ness". they market themselves on reliability and really, i think they still are still right up there in the reliability stakes.

    me personally, i would rather a dependable car than a pretty car, but that's just me. in my mind, a cars primary function is to take me places with as few complications as possible, looks and "experience" would only come as bonuses and this is what toyota offers. other people (and there's nothing wrong with it) would prefer a stunning car and spend every other weekend under the bonnet, keeping it going.
    But when Honda do it better, then you'd wonder why Toyota are more sucessful.
    Also, take the Mk4 Legacy diesel. It's better in every way than an Avensis D4D, and they were similarly priced, so you'd wonder why the Avensis outsold it probably 30-1.


  • #115
    driver123
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭driver123


    Yeah, I only had the cars for about 2 years each. But to me 70,000/80,000 MILES in 2 years without a fault is pretty good going. At no stage did I ever even have to think about reliability. And for my commute at the time that was my number one priority.
    The only reason to change was that I figured out that 3 years old and 70,000 gave me a relatively cheap purchase price, and selling at 5 years with about 150,000 got me the best resale (30,000 pa). If I kept them longer the mileage would put buyers off when it came to time to sell.


  • #116
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    But when Honda do it better, then you'd wonder why Toyota are more sucessful.
    Also, take the Mk4 Legacy diesel. It's better in every way than an Avensis D4D, and they were similarly priced, so you'd wonder why the Avensis outsold it probably 30-1.

    honda at this stage are a bit like mitsubishi imo, they just seem to have no drive or interest in the irish market. i like the current honda civic, but if they didn't have that car in their line up, what would they sell here? you'd rarely see a jazz or cr-v etc with a new-ish reg on the roads. i agree, they are good cars, but they don't seem to be driving sales.

    i reckon avensis customers are pretty set in their ways and most have been buying them since they were carinas or since their dad had a good carina. how many peoples dad had a good legacy? not half as many as had good carinas. i know that probably isn't the best grounds to buy a car on, but i genuinely believe that's why they would outsell the likes of the legacy.


  • #117
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    i reckon avensis customers are pretty set in their ways and most have been buying them since they were carinas or since their dad had a good carina. how many peoples dad had a good legacy? not half as many as had good carinas. i know that probably isn't the best grounds to buy a car on, but i genuinely believe that's why they would outsell the likes of the legacy.
    That's exactly my point. People don't buy with much degree of thought. If you're like that, then fine, but don't come on here defending the Avensis like it was the only sane choice in the world!


  • #118
    bazz26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,295 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    But when Honda do it better, then you'd wonder why Toyota are more sucessful.
    Also, take the Mk4 Legacy diesel. It's better in every way than an Avensis D4D, and they were similarly priced, so you'd wonder why the Avensis outsold it probably 30-1.

    Honda were not really more successful though, they have just killed off the Accord in Europe and don't have any plans to replace it.

    Subaru are too quirky for most folk and the dealer network is practically non existent.


  • #119
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Toyota outside in the garage - i would say its a great car.

    So no "anti Toyota" agenda.

    Yet its replacement could have been a Skoda last week.

    Not sure what it will be "next week" - but the common theme is that VERY odd thoughts of Auris Mk 1 hybrids apart - thoughts of replacement rarely turn to Toyotas.

    And usually thoughts of Auris Hybrid disappear quick when i see a Mk 1 Auris - enough said.

    Its okay though - im just some chap on the internet


  • #120
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Honda were not really more successful though, they have just killed off the Accord in Europe and don't have any plans to replace it.

    Subaru are too quirky for most folk and the dealer network is practically non existent.
    The Mk 4 Legacy isn't quirky at all, just good. But in people's minds it is. And that's why it didn't sell like it should have.
    Same with the Accord. People are convinced that a basic spec, more expensive FWD A4 is way better.


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  • #121
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    I don't think people think the Legacy is quirky. I think Average Joe/sephine in Ireland hears "Subaru" and thinks "yobs acting the maggot on the roads" and "fierce big engines".

    It's funny because in some parts of the States they think exactly what we think of when we hear Avensis, in other parts they think "triathlete". And guess what the number one result is for "Subaru stereotype" in google? It's far from boy racers at rally of the lakes anyway!


  • #122
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    The legacy in most people minds is hard on petrol. .........even if it has a diesel. End of.


  • #123
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    I don't think people think the Legacy is quirky. I think Average Joe/sephine in Ireland hears "Subaru" and thinks "yobs acting the maggot on the roads" and "fierce big engines".

    It's funny because in some parts of the States they think exactly what we think of when we hear Avensis, in other parts they think "triathlete". And guess what the number one result is for "Subaru stereotype" in google? It's far from boy racers at rally of the lakes anyway!
    Average Joe/sephine in Ireland go "Subaru? Never heard of them". The rest think they have large engines. Irish folk still think the Civic is a boy racer car.
    Irish folk are stupid when it comes to cars. That's why they all love the Golf.
    ba_barabus wrote: »
    The legacy in most people minds is hard on petrol. .........even if it has a diesel. End of.
    Again - stupid Irish folk! That's my point though. They'll argue till the cows come home as to how brilliant the Avensis is. They have no argument unless they compare, and they are unable to compare as they never had much else and don't understand anything about the competition.


  • #124
    166man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    but isn't that just the point.

    every avensis owner who has commented in this thread has had nothing but great things to say about their avensis.

    every BMW/ Alfa/ German car fan who has walked into this thread has categorically said they are ****e.

    but you are comparing chalk and cheese. some people don't mind a bit of extra hardship for a better driving experience or whatever, but the single main reason people buy an avensis is so they know they have a car that will start every morning and never throw up much in the way of unexpected breakdowns or repairs and as long as toyota keep churning out cars that are in some way reliable, they will continue to do well.

    Toyota don't market themselves on how handsome their cars are, nor their racing background or the driving experience, nor their "german-ness". they market themselves on reliability and really, i think they still are still right up there in the reliability stakes.

    me personally, i would rather a dependable car than a pretty car, but that's just me. in my mind, a cars primary function is to take me places with as few complications as possible, looks and "experience" would only come as bonuses and this is what toyota offers. other people (and there's nothing wrong with it) would prefer a stunning car and spend every other weekend under the bonnet, keeping it going.

    They can churn out as many cars as they like due to a fantastic marketing campaign. Doesn't make them good cars though!

    But why buy a Toyota for reliability when you can get the same levels of reliability from other manufacturers these days but in a far better package? Toyota have been churning out low quality cars in the last few years riding on their previous reputation. Obviously some still buy into the whole scene, but the reality is the competition have easily caught up now.

    I prefer my car to be pretty, something I enjoy looking at, look forward to driving. It's a machine at the end of the day so if it's looked after, generally it will keep going.

    Another interesting point to note especially re Alfas, they might have squeaky suspension and some of the electrics go iffy along with other niggle faults, but in general the engines, gearboxes (the bits that actually get you to where you want to go) work pretty well.


  • #125
    Poulgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    Saw in an article a few months ago (may have been Bloomberg) that both Toyota and Mercedes believe that the diesel engine is doomed - about 20 years left in them.

    Basically, cleaning up the emissions is making them too costly to maintain. That's why Toyota haven't bothered to develop new diesel engines and are buying them off BMW instead. They are providing BMW with hybrid and hydrogen technology, as part of the deal.


  • #126
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Saw in an article a few months ago (may have been Bloomberg) that both Toyota and Mercedes believe that the diesel engine is doomed - about 20 years left in them.

    Basically, cleaning up the emissions is making them too costly to maintain. That's why Toyota haven't bothered to develop new diesel engines and are buying them off BMW instead. They are providing BMW with hybrid and hydrogen technology, as part of the deal.

    The diesel has no future thread is thisaway :);) Caution - contains either loony misguided environmentalists or dervboys with a serious case of the butthurt.


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  • #127
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,508 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    166man wrote: »
    But why buy a Toyota for reliability when you can get the same levels of reliability from other manufacturers these days but in a far better package? Toyota have been churning out low quality cars in the last few years riding on their previous reputation. Obviously some still buy into the whole scene, but the reality is the competition have easily caught up now.

    Genuinely curious as to how you've come to that conclusion. Where are you pulling your information from.


  • #128
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    Genuinely curious as to how you've come to that conclusion. Where are you pulling your information from.

    I'd enjoy a factual link etc to back that up too. It would remove bias from the discussion.


  • #129
    JohnBoy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    I'd enjoy a factual link etc to back that up too. It would remove bias from the discussion.
    No reply yet since the question was asked at 14.41 today. Either there is no link or he is searching for a non existent link for the past 5 hours :pac:


  • #130
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Ah lads in fairness, the quality of modern Toyotas is nowhere near the older ones. Just thinking of my father's five year old one, it's been back to the garage on numerous occasions with airbag issues. It's also had the infamous door problem that blights the Mk3 model, where the check strap is too weak to support the weight of the door, and the doors need to be replaced.

    Fortunately the Toyota backup has been excellent and he hasn't had to pay a cent to fix any of these problems (I suppose being a Toyota man all his life helps in that regard). Oddly enough, the best feature of the car's reliability is the one thing that you can't have with the new car, because that car has the Toyota made D-4D engine. Last time I checked the car was on 215,000 km or 134,000 miles and the engine has never gone wrong, and neither have the DMF or the DPF (but then again, the car hardly ever goes into town so those components shouldn't be failing anyway).

    The only thing I hope with this not-so-new 'new' N47 engine is that Toyota have decided that it needs to be serviced every 20,000 km, rather than up to 30,000 km with BMW's ridiculous long life servicing, so it probably won't be as badly affected by the timing chain problem assuming people bother to service it on time.

    By the way, the Auris is getting the N47 when it gets facelifted later on in the year, although the 1.4 D-4D will continue to be available. Also worth noting with the facelifted Auris is that it will be available with some super duper 1.2 VVT-iW that switches between Otto and Atkinson cycle, has a turbo, direct injection and some other very advanced technology to boot. Its CO2 is 109 g/km, so hopefully there will be some takers for it over the diesel, assuming Toyota Ireland bother to offer it here, of course.


  • #131
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Had to Google atkinson cycle, and as I read the description of modern versions of it I thought it sounded like Miller cycle. Sure enough, Miller cycle is a supercharged atkinson.

    Hello mazda 2.3 engines from the 90's!


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  • #132
    dgt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    I'd enjoy a factual link etc to back that up too. It would remove bias from the discussion.

    You and I know that politely won't do very much or bluntly do nothing. It'd be ran down by hardcore delusional cretins. Or some sort of half arsed "witty" condescending reply with quotations would appear.

    In the same way if people were asked to produce such a link about other marques they didn't like we'd be met with "I don't need one, in my experience" rubbish. Some people believe they are more equal than others.

    And that produces quite a toxic, cancerous environment.

    I am quite interested to test drive the new Avensis anyway, regardless. Be interesting to see what's changed for our market inside and under the bonnet compared to the car in the vid :D


  • #133
    JohnBoy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    captainspeed wrote: »
    Ah lads in fairness, the quality of modern Toyotas is nowhere near the older ones. Just thinking of my father's five year old one, it's been back to the garage on numerous occasions with airbag issues. It's also had the infamous door problem that blights the Mk3 model, where the check strap is too weak to support the weight of the door, and the doors need to be replaced.

    Fortunately the Toyota backup has been excellent and he hasn't had to pay a cent to fix any of these problems (I suppose being a Toyota man all his life helps in that regard). Oddly enough, the best feature of the car's reliability is the one thing that you can't have with the new car, because that car has the Toyota made D-4D engine. Last time I checked the car was on 215,000 km or 134,000 miles and the engine has never gone wrong, and neither have the DMF or the DPF (but then again, the car hardly ever goes into town so those components shouldn't be failing anyway).

    The only thing I hope with this not-so-new 'new' N47 engine is that Toyota have decided that it needs to be serviced every 20,000 km, rather than up to 30,000 km with BMW's ridiculous long life servicing, so it probably won't be as badly affected by the timing chain problem assuming people bother to service it on time.

    By the way, the Auris is getting the N47 when it gets facelifted later on in the year, although the 1.4 D-4D will continue to be available. Also worth noting with the facelifted Auris is that it will be available with some super duper 1.2 VVT-iW that switches between Otto and Atkinson cycle, has a turbo, direct injection and some other very advanced technology to boot. Its CO2 is 109 g/km, so hopefully there will be some takers for it over the diesel, assuming Toyota Ireland bother to offer it here, of course.
    Probably not as good as the old ones but infairness what is :)

    Still a problem with a door strap and an airbag problem which were fixed free of charge is small fry compared to some of the issues that some modern diesels can give :)


  • #134
    166man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    Genuinely curious as to how you've come to that conclusion. Where are you pulling your information from.

    What conclusion? What information? An example for this would easily be Skoda imo, similarly priced compared to the Toyotas I believe but a far nicer all round package. Interior is leaps and bounds ahead of Toyota as is the engine choice. Look much nicer too, especially the new Octavia but then again that's subjective.
    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    I'd enjoy a factual link etc to back that up too. It would remove bias from the discussion.

    What kind of factual link are you looking for? Do we need factual links to have opinions now?
    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    No reply yet since the question was asked at 14.41 today. Either there is no link or he is searching for a non existent link for the past 5 hours :pac:

    There's been many a time when you have been asked questions before and you have very quickly exited the scene. I wouldn't go down that road now chief ;) the reason for my lack of reply is that I have a life, and don't sit at a computer all day keeping track of people's posts.


  • #135
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    166man wrote: »
    What kind of factual link are you looking for? Do we need factual links to have opinions now?

    basically all you've said is you had a brief loan of a mk3 avensis and you didn't like it, therefore they are ****. it's just a bit dim witted.

    you like interesting cars, so you were probably never going to like the avensis. in the same way Gordon Ramsay probably wouldn't think much of my microwave, but that doesn't mean it's a **** microwave.

    just because you did not like it, does not mean they are ****.

    that's all i'm trying to say.

    you can hardly say, for example, that the octavia is an inspiring cabin to sit in, or that it offers much in the way of excitement in any respect.


  • #136
    166man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    basically all you've said is you had a brief loan of a mk3 avensis and you didn't like it, therefore they are ****. it's just a bit dim witted.

    you like interesting cars, so you were probably never going to like the avensis. in the same way Gordon Ramsay probably wouldn't think much of my microwave, but that doesn't mean it's a **** microwave.

    just because you did not like it, does not mean they are ****.

    that's all i'm trying to say.

    you can hardly say, for example, that the octavia is an inspiring cabin to sit in, or that it offers much in the way of excitement in any respect.

    Dad had a Mk1/1.5 (his was a 2001 petrol anyway) for three years, genuinely a terrible car! The car went back to Toyota after six months due to rotting under the rear seat bench! Everything felt cheap on it, and at the time, it wasn't a cheap car! Engine was very rough, gutless, drank fuel. That being said I don't think it gave him problems. He then bought his 166.

    I like interesting cars, so you're right, probably won't be a fan of the generic crap that Toyota make, but I am a fan of my work colleagues Aristo, or your Glanza or Chris's chaser.

    1500km in an Avensis was enough for me to realise, the engine was gutless, (120bhp??), interior was poorly made, car didn't drive well, very loose gearchange, wallowy over bumps etc. it didn't drive nice. It just felt low rent. As such I deemed it to not be a nice car and thus I didn't like it. There was nothing redeemable about it. I find it worrying the amount of Avensis taxis going around Dunlin with blue smoke billowing out the back too.


    Whatever about appreciating the nicer older Classic Toyotas, harping on about the generic run of the mill stuff is something I can't really understand.


  • #137
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Bland anonymous car causes normal folk to get angry and spout Shyte.

    Even auto express isn't this crap


  • #138
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    basically all you've said is you had a brief loan of a mk3 avensis and you didn't like it, therefore they are ****. it's just a bit dim witted.

    you like interesting cars, so you were probably never going to like the avensis. in the same way Gordon Ramsay probably wouldn't think much of my microwave, but that doesn't mean it's a **** microwave.

    just because you did not like it, does not mean they are ****.

    that's all i'm trying to say.

    you can hardly say, for example, that the octavia is an inspiring cabin to sit in, or that it offers much in the way of excitement in any respect.

    Its like this - theres a Toyota outside in the garage - I drove it this morning - I was very happy with it. Its perfectly acceptable everyday pleasant enough A to be motoring. Its older tech (old school indirect injection 2.0 NON turbo diesel) but its reliable - and doesn't cost a fortune to fix on the RARE occasions it needs fixing.

    But the reason the threads gone off on a tangent is that the Mk 3 Avensis or some newer Toyotas in general don't really have a huge amount to offer now rivals have closed the reliability gap.

    I think people accept they are never going to be out and out exciting cars to drive - they were NEVER about that really.

    Again its been noted already by a few of us that the Mk 2 Avensis was a decent car - a fine car - a good car.

    The problem is - the Mk 3 - a new facelift of which is what started off the thread - wasn't really a step forward AT ALL.

    And it thus raises questions - where are Toyota going (GT 86 aside) - I feel myself personally Toyota have VERY little interest in the European market these days - and are building cars with LESS demanding markets in mind - America/Asia/third country markets.

    Its hard to develop a car for Europe - Toyota aren't even trying

    That's my issue with them.

    Going back to my first paragraph - ive said all that about the Toyota outside - so why am I thinking Skoda/VAG in general instead as a replacement???.

    I probably wouldn't inclined to had Toyota kept on the path they were going in the 02 to 09 period with E12 Corolla and Mk 2 Avensis.

    Next door - bought (around 6 months ago now) an 08 Corolla Saloon diesel - truthfully aside from safety on which ALL makes have generally improved - I fail to see what it has to offer over the 99 in the garage.

    That's the problem - not sure what holding that viewpoint makes me....


  • #139
    Mully_2011
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭Mully_2011


    See the problem with the mk3 Avensis is it was developed around 07-09 and all Toyotas of that era are sh*te the auld lad traded up his Landcriuser for an Avensis (Got a good deal on it ) and its grand its comfy and reliable but its a bit "meh", We also had an 08 Auris and that was a bucket of Sh*t as well.

    The new auris is a good car though


  • #140
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    I see the new model is now on sale. Prices gone up by quite a bit, though they've dropped the Terra model, which partly explains it.

    The Luna and Sol models are amazingly well equipped by Irish standards! I'm sure it will still be as exciting to drive as watching paint dry - it is a Toyota after all, although they claim the suspension and steering have been revised. But it looks all right inside now.

    One other good thing I've noticed with the diesels, they've got this strange thing called a dipstick! Hurrah for Toyota - BMW never bothered fitting such an important feature to any of their cars fitted with the infamous N47 engine.


  • #141
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    captainspeed wrote: »
    I see the new model is now on sale. Prices gone up by quite a bit, though they've dropped the Terra model, which partly explains it.

    The Luna and Sol models are amazingly well equipped by Irish standards! I'm sure it will still be as exciting to drive as watching paint dry - it is a Toyota after all, although they claim the suspension and steering have been revised. But it looks all right inside now.

    One other good thing I've noticed with the diesels, they've got this strange thing called a dipstick! Hurrah for Toyota - BMW never bothered fitting such an important feature to any of their cars fitted with the infamous N47 engine.
    According to Autocar, it drives quite well. Not as good as the best in the segment, but certainly not bad at all.


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  • #142
    ofcork
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,413 ✭✭✭ofcork


    Still have windy rear windows in the aura and don't know why they keep the 1.8 auto,had a look into a demo on sunday cream leather etc but looking at 32k at least.


  • #143
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,480 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I'd say Toyota will abandon the Avensis ?
    Still sells well here but doubt it does across Europe. Nissan abandoned this market and started a new trend with the Quashqui. Crossovers appear to be where its at.
    The Passat, 6, Mondeo and even Insignia seem to be doing much better. Dropping the hatch didn't help either.


  • #144
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I have an Avensis 1.6 diesel bought as nearly new end of last year from a dealer with 15k kms on it.
    In the first month it stopped three time and would not restart. No noise, no starter sound.
    The explanation of the fix was a bit hard to believe, originally put down to me not depressing the clutch when starting (I do). Why did it stop/cut out?

    Last week on the motorway I got a message that the parking brake needed attention. The car was sluggish. I later learned this was "limp home " mode. It needs a new EGR (exhaust gas recycling valve), and the car will be with them for two weeks. The car has 20k kms on the clock.


  • #145
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    diomed wrote: »
    I have an Avensis 1.6 diesel bought as nearly new end of last year from a dealer with 15k kms on it.
    In the first month it stopped three time and would not restart. No noise, no starter sound.
    The explanation of the fix was a bit hard to believe, originally put down to me not depressing the clutch when starting (I do). Why did it stop/cut out?

    Last week on the motorway I got a message that the parking brake needed attention. The car was sluggish. I later learned this was "limp home " mode. It needs a new EGR (exhaust gas recycling valve), and the car will be with them for two weeks. The car has 20k kms on the clock.

    Out of interest what kind of driving do you do? City/motorway/sticks? and do you use the parking brake at traffic lights etc or only when parking?


  • #146
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Miike wrote: »
    Out of interest what kind of driving do you do? City/motorway/sticks? and do you use the parking brake at traffic lights etc or only when parking?
    I'm retired so a bit of local stuff only a few kiliometers, and twice a week a motorway 50km return journey (200 kms), about 300 kms a week total.
    When it gave trouble I was returning from a 120 km round trip (240 kms) on motorways. The car was carrying a bit of weight on the return, but nothing greater than a full car of passengers (driver+3).
    Collected the car about an hour ago. Fingers crossed.


  • #147
    ofcork
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,413 ✭✭✭ofcork


    That's the bmw engine in that one now isn't it maybe Toyota should have stuck with their own engines even though the 2l is a bit unrefined.


  • #148
    JohnBoy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    ofcork wrote: »
    That's the bmw engine in that one now isn't it maybe Toyota should have stuck with their own engines even though the 2l is a bit unrefined.
    They couldn't because it wouldn't meet new emission regulations. Developing a new engine wasn't on the cards either as they are moving away from diesel and focusing their efforts elsewhere.


  • #149
    James Delaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭James Delaney


    When the new Avensis was launched it was supported to be fitted with the problematic BMW N47 Engine.

    Was it ?

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/bmw-s-timing-chain-problem-comes-back-to-haunt-carmaker-1.2869493%253Fmode%253Damp&ved=0ahUKEwiM9senxprTAhWKK8AKHXSSBLcQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNHjamjeGMkKVN1VMFKPnXvCbdlSgg


  • #150
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    James Delaney wrote: »
    When the new Avensis was launched it was supported to be fitted with the problematic BMW N47 Engine.

    Was it ?

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/bmw-s-timing-chain-problem-comes-back-to-haunt-carmaker-1.2869493%253Fmode%253Damp&ved=0ahUKEwiM9senxprTAhWKK8AKHXSSBLcQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNHjamjeGMkKVN1VMFKPnXvCbdlSgg

    It is however it's orientated differently (transverse as opposed to longitude) and supposedly it's had the chain and the tensioners somewhat redesigned. The chain will also be at the front so if the worst happens it still won't be an engine out job.

    The above egr issue is interesting to hear though whatever about the older 2.0d4d being agricultural and having a somewhat narrow powerband for a fairly modern diesel engine egr and dpf issues were and still are few and far between.


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  • #151
    SachaJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭SachaJ


    So any updates from people that actually have these cars? I'm considering a 2.0D Tourer.


This discussion has been closed.
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