Cars in Bus Lane blocking Ambulances and Fire Engines

Capt'n Midnight · 03-10-2007 11:02pm #1

There is a fire station on the Belgard Road.
From there to Newlands Cross there is a 24 hour bus lane.
The "bus lane not in use" signs have been removed.

Every day during rush hour the bus lane is full of traffic turning left onto the Naas Road.

I've seen Ambulances and Fire Engines traveling against traffic on the other side of the carriageway which is dangerous. Vital minutes are lost if they try to go though three solid lanes. And they need not be since there should be an almost empty lane there 24/7.

Who should be keeping the lane clear, seeing as how lives may be at stake ?

Also those drivers who illegally use the bus lane then almost to a man don't use the acceleration lane when they turn on to the Naas road. This lane is 1/4 of a mile long. If people used it then they could put an orange filter light on the left turn and have cars entering the Naas road during most of the traffic light cycle, just having red when pedestrians were crossing or when the lights go green for the traffic heading out from town. This would reduce the queue on the Belgard road ?

Driving a vehicle (other than a taxi in course of business or a cyclist) in a bus lane during the period of operation.
€60 - in first 28 days
€90 - after that

Cabaal · 08-10-2007 3:59pm

People don't give a crap about bus lanes, we saw that on Capital D when they did the race between car, bus and bike and the girl on the bus took ages to get to the finish because all the cars were filling up the bus lanes.

Ste.phen · 08-10-2007 5:27pm

THey need automatic enforcement of bus lanes via cameras.
I'm fairly sure such a system would pay for itself, and that an enterprising IT company could rig it up for capital costs only + percentage of revenue.
So why don't they do it?

GerardKeating · 08-10-2007 6:38pm

Igy wrote:

THey need automatic enforcement of bus lanes via cameras.

I think enforecement by "Sniper" would be the best..

Cabaal · 08-10-2007 8:33pm

GerardKeating wrote:

I think enforecement by "Sniper" would be the best..

once the owner is dead the state can resell the car for profit, system pays for itself in a few months

sniper rifles and bullets ain't cheap you know,

Capt'n Midnight · 08-10-2007 8:57pm

Not really a practical solution, since the car would block traffic.
Might need to get a few more traffic helicopters then.

Cabaal wrote:

bullets ain't cheap you know,

Do like the chinese did and bill the family for the bullet. :rolleyes:

SickCert · 08-10-2007 10:19pm

GerardKeating wrote:

I think enforecement by "Sniper" would be the best..

Easy Easy! Sure free-flow is only 2 months away........... I'll get the bullets!:eek:

markpb · 09-10-2007 9:33am

Igy wrote:

THey need automatic enforcement of bus lanes via cameras.
I'm fairly sure such a system would pay for itself, and that an enterprising IT company could rig it up for capital costs only + percentage of revenue.
So why don't they do it?

I had exactly the same feelings a few months ago so I started asking people about it. Herein begins the comedy of errors....

I mailed DB and asked them why they don't use their front-facing cameras for bus lane enforcement. They said they weren't allowed, it was an issue for the lane operator.

I mailed QBN and asked them why they don't have static cameras for bus lane enforcement. They said they weren't allowed, it was up to the gardai to enforce it and sure the gardai are doing a great job already - as long as someone in DCC control centre spots the car and can get a guarda out there in time to catch them.

I mailed DoT and asked them why QBN weren't allowed have cameras for enforcement and what law prevent it. They said that's not the case, the LA's already have the authority if they want to.

I mailed QBN back three times, showing them DoT's letter - they never replied.

I mailed DB back twice, showing them DoT's letter - they never replied.

I can only conclude that the people in DB management and QBN have no actual in interest in keeping buses moving.

Hagar · 09-10-2007 9:39am

markpb wrote:

I can only conclude that the people in DB management and QBN have no actual in interest in keeping buses moving.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I suspect they don't want to lose a very good excuse for their total inability to provide a service that matches their published timetables.

Davidth88 · 09-10-2007 10:05am

Guys

Bus lane camaras are a good idea BUT ( and it's a BIG BUT )

They must be carefully positioned, the LA's in Britain have been raking in huge amounts of money , but also getting huge amount of complaints because the camara catch people

a) Turning left correctly
b) Using the bus lane if the there is a car turning right in the driving lane ( not sure what the R of the R say about this ).
c) Dropping into bus lane to avoid an accident

They are like speed camaras, they only tell part of the story.

The funny thing is , any but driver could tell you where the most bus lane infringments take place , why don't the police ask them , then concentrate their efforts on those places

markpb · 09-10-2007 10:13am

Davidth88 wrote:

They must be carefully positioned, the LA's in Britain have been raking in huge amounts of money , but also getting huge amount of complaints because the camara catch people

Totally agree. TfL have a policy where an operator and supervisor review each automatic catch at the end of the day. The tape is reviewed including the few minutes the incident so people turning left, moving out of the way of ambulances, etc are cleared before the FPN is ever sent.

Personally I'm a big fan of physically segregated bus lanes. Some people will decide that a 60 fine is reasonable if it gets them to work faster. At least if they can't get into the bus lane, they can't cause any problems. Paris and Madrid both have long stretches of them and they work quite well.

jlang · 09-10-2007 10:32am

The OP's particular junction is a personal bugbear of mine. There should be a free running merge (capacity improvement) or even just a stop/yield sign at the left turn from the Belgard Road onto the outbound Naas Road. There's no reason to back left-turning cars up the Belgard Road at all - whether in the bus lane or not.
It won't be sorted until Newlands Cross is rebuilt in a few years but a relatively small amount of money could fix this now.

Victor · 09-10-2007 2:03pm

Its appallling and its down to individual selfishness.

GerardKeating wrote:

I think enforecement by "Sniper" would be the best..

Behave. The cops don't like me having ideas like that.

09-10-2007 3:07pm

jlang wrote:

The OP's particular junction is a personal bugbear of mine. There should be a free running merge (capacity improvement) or even just a stop/yield sign at the left turn from the Belgard Road onto the outbound Naas Road. There's no reason to back left-turning cars up the Belgard Road at all - whether in the bus lane or not.
It won't be sorted until Newlands Cross is rebuilt in a few years but a relatively small amount of money could fix this now.

Too much like "russian roulette" here , unless drivers actually acknowledge the sign. would be better if there was a merge lane.

corktina · 09-10-2007 5:18pm

Davidth88 wrote:

Guys

Bus lane camaras are a good idea BUT ( and it's a BIG BUT )

They must be carefully positioned, the LA's in Britain have been raking in huge amounts of money , but also getting huge amount of complaints because the camara catch people

a) Turning left correctly
b) Using the bus lane if the there is a car turning right in the driving lane ( not sure what the R of the R say about this ).
c) Dropping into bus lane to avoid an accident

They are like speed camaras, they only tell part of the story.

The funny thing is , any but driver could tell you where the most bus lane infringments take place , why don't the police ask them , then concentrate their efforts on those places

put the cameras on the Buses and give the driver the shutter realese....

SickCert · 09-10-2007 5:31pm

corktina wrote:

put the cameras on the Buses and give the driver the shutter realese....

Sure we have a front mounted camera at the moment, high quality DVD. I think it rewrites itself after 20 days.

GreeBo · 12-10-2007 11:16am

Davidth88 wrote: »

Guys

Bus lane camaras are a good idea BUT ( and it's a BIG BUT )

They must be carefully positioned, the LA's in Britain have been raking in huge amounts of money , but also getting huge amount of complaints because the camara catch people

a) Turning left correctly
b) Using the bus lane if the there is a car turning right in the driving lane ( not sure what the R of the R say about this ).
c) Dropping into bus lane to avoid an accident

So just position them back before the bus lane turns into a turn left lane?
Doesnt that solve the problem.
So many times I have stayed in the correct lane only to arrive at the point where I am legally supposed to enter the bus lane to find a queue of 30 cars already there backed right up into the bus lane. Now I sit there getting the crap beeped out of my from behind until this lane empties. Its a joke.

Stark · 12-10-2007 3:53pm

Just be more aggressive when forcing your way into the lane

I have the same problem every day coming home from work where the bus lane fills up with people. I had an argument with a driving instructor about a year ago about it when I was preparing for my test. He kept telling me to join the sheep in the bus lane, and I kept responding "But it's illegal". His argument was that I'd find myself in your situation, getting beeped out of it until I could move into the bus lane. My argument was if a garda pulled up on his motorcycle and started issuing fines, he wasn't going to buy my "but everyone else is doing it" excuse. But it can be so bloody frustrating trying to do things legally if noone else will do it.

GreeBo · 12-10-2007 4:13pm

Stark wrote: »

J
I have the same problem every day coming home from work where the bus lane fills up with people. I had an argument with a driving instructor about a year ago about it when I was preparing for my test. He kept telling me to join the sheep in the bus lane, and I kept responding "But it's illegal". His argument was that I'd find myself in your situation, getting beeped out of it until I could move into the bus lane. My argument was if a garda pulled up on his motorcycle and started issuing fines, he wasn't going to buy my "but everyone else is doing it" excuse. But it can be so bloody frustrating trying to do things legally if noone else will do it.

which is exactly why I do it legally

Someday a cop will ticket 40 people and make his yearly salary in an hour...someday.
As has been said before, its the same roads everyday, its not rocket science.

Victor · 13-10-2007 7:07pm

Is there a Bus Éireann bus stop on the Naas Road, just around the corner from Belgard Road? Hence, the council aren't enthusiastic about people racing around the corner in a free-flow lane?

Capt'n Midnight · 14-10-2007 9:06pm

Victor wrote: »

Is there a Bus Éireann bus stop on the Naas Road, just around the corner from Belgard Road? Hence, the council aren't enthusiastic about people racing around the corner in a free-flow lane?

yes
but the bus stop is in a lay-by off the acceleration lane, not in it.

markpb · 16-10-2007 1:50pm

Slightly off-topic...

Indo wrote:

MOTORISTS would not allow a fire engine into the fast lane of a motorway as it sped towards a fatal road accident, an inquest into the death of a young woman heard yesterday.

A fire officer has described as "mayhem" the manner in which motorists were driving through dense fog on the morning in which young mother-of-one, Kate Moyles, died.

The driver of a fire engine told an inquest into Ms Moyles death that he was unable to pull into the fast lane of the M7 motorway because traffic was moving too fast, even though he was indicating with his blue lights flashing and sirens blaring.

...

Mr Maher told the court that the NRA planed to put in place Variable Message Systems on the M1 motorway on a pilot basis in the coming year.

Source: linky

Personally I think it's a great idea that the NRA should put up signs telling motorists to slow down under dangerous conditions, there's no way we could possibly expect any licensed motorist to know to do that on their own.

Stark · 16-10-2007 2:16pm

Indeed, and as they're in sign form, they'll be obeyed without fail.

MrPudding · 16-10-2007 3:09pm

markpb wrote: »

Totally agree. TfL have a policy where an operator and supervisor review each automatic catch at the end of the day. The tape is reviewed including the few minutes the incident so people turning left, moving out of the way of ambulances, etc are cleared before the FPN is ever sent.

This is the way it should be done. It makes a lot of sense and saves on wasteful challenges.

markpb wrote: »

Personally I'm a big fan of physically segregated bus lanes. Some people will decide that a 60 fine is reasonable if it gets them to work faster. At least if they can't get into the bus lane, they can't cause any problems. Paris and Madrid both have long stretches of them and they work quite well.

As I have said on several occasions, how reasonable is €60 if you are hit with a fine for each occasion you illegally use a bus lane? I don't think there are many people that would be able to afford a couple of €60 fines each day. That said, automatic rising bollards do make for very entertaining viewing.....

corktina wrote: »

put the cameras on the Buses and give the driver the shutter realese....

Video is the may to go. Besides, in order to get the drivers to press the shutter release we should have to endure at least one strike and give them an extra 10% to cover the extra responsibility.

MrP

markpb · 16-10-2007 3:22pm

MrPudding wrote: »

As I have said on several occasions, how reasonable is €60 if you are hit with a fine for each occasion you illegally use a bus lane? I don't think there are many people that would be able to afford a couple of €60 fines each day. That said, automatic rising bollards do make for very entertaining viewing.....

It's not that one person will do it repeatedly, it's that different people will do it at different times. Cumulatively it adds up to a lot of delays. Even if you ignore the deliberate bus runners, it stops people accidentally going into the lane because they didn't see the sign or drifting slightly into the lane just enough to block but the bus but not enough to realise. It would also allow drivers to drive at a slightly higher speed than the surrounding traffic and still be reasonably safe.

Ger the man · 17-10-2007 12:53pm

I once witnessed a fire engine push an illegally parked taxi with hazard lights on away from a fire hydrant. The taxi driver (complete scanger) raced out of the local spar and freaked - it was brilliant! The head fireman was able to quote a certain law stating that he is to use 'any means' to access the fire hydrant.

Stark · 17-10-2007 1:38pm

Ah firemen. No wonder the chicks go wild for them.

Cars in Bus Lane blocking Ambulances and Fire Engines

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