16 year old strip searched

caseyann · 05-06-2011 6:56pm

Bosco boy wrote: »

You might also have a considerable legal bill to pay afterwards!

Yeah well if it protected and stopped the indecent treatment of someone else's child.All because they had a feeling it needed to be done and it looked into i would be more than happy.

goat2 · 05-06-2011 6:58pm

maiden wrote: »

He is very upset over it, when the guard rang me, he told me they had searched him at the hotel and brought him to the station for a 'further search' which i assumed meant they striped him to maybe his boxers. I only found out about the squat and cough when my son told me the next day.

He does have a caution for 'eating mars bars'. His friends broke into a kiosk and stole bars and drinks of which my son happily ate and drank!!

was he present when his friends stole these goods

Bosco boy · 05-06-2011 7:02pm

goat2 wrote: »

was he present when his friends stole these goods

The lookout?

caseyann · 05-06-2011 7:02pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

On the first page. Posession of stolen property.

He has a caution

(
He does have a caution for 'eating mars bars'. His friends broke into a kiosk and stole bars and drinks of which my son happily ate and drank!!)

So if i have a caution for something gives the right to Garda to strip search me for drugs?
Something wrong with that line.
Caution is not a criminal record.
So if a bouncer just randomly points in direction of some poor sap that happens to be in view and says they may have drugs on them they will be strip searched and then dragged to a Garda station and then given an internal search.All on the back of some random bouncer?
I must ask my uncle about this case.

goat2 · 05-06-2011 7:09pm

caseyann wrote: »

He has a caution (
He does have a caution for 'eating mars bars'. His friends broke into a kiosk and stole bars and drinks of which my son happily ate and drank!!)

So if i have a caution for something gives the right to Garda to strip search me for drugs?
Something wrong with that line.
Caution is not a criminal record.
So if a bouncer just randomly points in direction of some poor sap that happens to be in view and says they may have drugs on them they will be strip searched and then dragged to a Garda station and then given an internal search.All on the back of some random bouncer?
I must ask my uncle about this case.

i pointed a finger about a year ago, but when i did, i thought i was saving the kids and their families from heartache, now i know that it would not have been appreciated

caseyann · 05-06-2011 7:10pm

goat2 wrote: »

i pointed a finger about a year ago, but when i did, i thought i was saving the kids and their families from heartache, now i know that it would not have been appreciated

What are you talking about?

goat2 · 05-06-2011 7:13pm

caseyann wrote: »

What are you talking about?

children buying bb guns and just let the first garda i met know, it was at one of those stall sales,

caseyann · 05-06-2011 7:17pm

goat2 wrote: »

children buying bb guns and just let the first garda i met know, it was at one of those stall sales,

Thats different situation.

MagicSean · 05-06-2011 7:37pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

and what power of arrest does a bouncer have? was the bouncer willing to give evidence in court? a large amount of bouncers out there are as dodgy as they come

A bouncer has a power of arrest under section 4 of the criminal law act 1997. But if you''d bothered to read the thread you would see the bouncer made no arrest.

caseyann wrote: »

He has a caution (
He does have a caution for 'eating mars bars'. His friends broke into a kiosk and stole bars and drinks of which my son happily ate and drank!!)

Yes that is called posessing stolen property.

caseyann wrote: »

So if i have a caution for something gives the right to Garda to strip search me for drugs?

Nope. Not on it's own.

caseyann wrote: »

Something wrong with that line.

It's your line

caseyann wrote: »

Caution is not a criminal record.

Yes it is. It isn't a court conviction though.

caseyann wrote: »

So if a bouncer just randomly points in direction of some poor sap that happens to be in view and says they may have drugs on them they will be strip searched and then dragged to a Garda station and then given an internal search.All on the back of some random bouncer?

No. Like I said, you don't know what other evidence they had. And he wasn't given an internal search.

caseyann wrote: »

I must ask my uncle about this case.

If you must.

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 7:50pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

A bouncer has a power of arrest under section 4 of the criminal law act 1997. But if you''d bothered to read the thread you would see the bouncer made no arrest.

a citizens arrest you meen.

OK. if i was to approach a member of ags and said i think that person there is in possesion of drugs. would that give them cause to strip search that person?

goat2 · 05-06-2011 7:52pm

[QUOTE=maiden;72582995

And just to mention it was a function to do with his school[/QUOTE]

are those who organised it were responsible for sean while at that function, or was it a school debs

BizzyLizzie · 05-06-2011 7:55pm

I love how some people here are so quick to assume the kid is lieing. Just because he's 16 doesn't automatically make him a liar! The OP said that her version of events is what the Garda who rang her told her. If he has more evidence than the bouncer's opinion that her son had drugs, it's highly likely he would have mentioned it.

I'd be very inclined to give her son the benefit of the doubt. She said herself that he hasn't talked to her about it since the incident, so it's not like he's making up lies to make himself look good.

The OP is just asking for some advice. No need to get all high and mighty about how she should be keeping a tighter reign on her son. He was at a school event, it was hardly a drug fueled rave.

OP, go and get some legal advice if this is still an issue for you. Don't take mine or anyone elses opinion on here as fact, Garda or otherwise. While the quoted pieces of law might well be accurate, what's to say there isn't another piece of legislation that overrules the first under certain conditions? Speak to a solicitor, it'll put your mind at ease if nothing else

goat2 · 05-06-2011 8:02pm

i dont know what the law is on this, do they video record when they stripsearch, otherwise it is just one persons word against the other persons word

source · 05-06-2011 8:02pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

a citizens arrest you meen.

OK. if i was to approach a member of ags and said i think that person there is in possesion of drugs. would that give them cause to strip search that person?

Depending on whether the member believes you are trustworthy, that your information is legit, then yes he may search the person that you point out.

Hearsay is when a person tells another person something, and that second person uses that information to inform the gardai of something.

A bouncer telling a member of AGS something they have seen or believe they have seen is not hearsay.

If the bouncer told the Garda that he believed the youth had drugs on him, because a passer-by told him....that would be hearsay.

@casey-ann, a strip search is not an invasive search. getting the detainee to squat is not an invasive search. Putting on a latex glove and sticking your finger up the detainee's ar5e to see what's up there, is an invasive search and is not a search that is performed by AGS, It is conducted by a Doctor.

OP you've gotten some very very bad advice in this thread. If you want to check out the validity of this search, contact the member or his sergeant. Tell them that you're concerned about your son, as he was brought in for a search. Ask for the details surrounding this search. The member will tell you all you need to know.

Jimdagym · 05-06-2011 8:09pm

foinse wrote: »

@casey-ann, a strip search is not an invasive search. getting the detainee to squat is not an invasive search. Putting on a latex glove and sticking your finger up the detainee's ar5e to see what's up there, is an invasive search and is not a search that is performed by AGS, It is conducted by a Doctor.

Just on this, I think it was seanybeag1(sp?) who stated that the invasive search is done by a doctor when possible, not exclusively.

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 8:18pm

foinse wrote: »

Depending on whether the member believes you are trustworthy, that your information is legit, then yes he may search the person that you point out.

Hearsay is when a person tells another person something, and that second person uses that information to inform the gardai of something.

A bouncer telling a member of AGS something they have seen or believe they have seen is not hearsay.

If the bouncer told the Garda that he believed the youth had drugs on him, because a passer-by told him....that would be hearsay.

@casey-ann, a strip search is not an invasive search. getting the detainee to squat is not an invasive search. Putting on a latex glove and sticking your finger up the detainee's ar5e to see what's up there, is an invasive search and is not a search that is performed by AGS, It is conducted by a Doctor.

OP you've gotten some very very bad advice in this thread. If you want to check out the validity of this search, contact the member or his sergeant. Tell them that you're concerned about your son, as he was brought in for a search. Ask for the details surrounding this search. The member will tell you all you need to know.

would it justify a strip search...for all you know the reason he didnt get back in is because he got lippy with the bouncer...how many strip searchs are carried out on young boys with no major criminal history because somebody reported to a garda that a person MAY have drugs on them?

source · 05-06-2011 8:31pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

would it justify a strip search...for all you know the reason he didnt get back in is because he got lippy with the bouncer...how many strip searchs are carried out on young boys with no major criminal history because somebody reported to a garda that a person MAY have drugs on them?

The majority of drugs I've found have either been concealed in a sock or underwear. It's a place people think Gardai won't go. The extent of the search is dependant on the information recieved and the demeanour of the person being searched (how nervous he is etc.).

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 8:34pm

foinse wrote: »

The majority of drugs I've found have either been concealed in a sock or underwear. It's a place people think Gardai won't go. The extent of the search is dependant on the information recieved and the demeanour of the person being searched (how nervous he is etc.).

any time ive dealt with the garda ive been nervous....nothing to hide but still nervous. if a member of public or a bouncer approached you and said this young man has drugs would you go as far as bringing him down the station and strip searching him? i think the gaurd in question went a step to far in his assumption of the guilt of the teenager

source · 05-06-2011 8:42pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

any time ive dealt with the garda ive been nervous....nothing to hide but still nervous. if a member of public or a bouncer approached you and said this young man has drugs would you go as far as bringing him down the station and strip searching him? i think the gaurd in question went a step to far in his assumption of the guilt of the teenager

I won't comment on whether or not the member went too far, as I wasn't there. I would also suggest that you shouldn't make speculations like that either, for the same reason.

I have told the op to talk to the only person who knows for sure what happened that night. After that I cannot make any further comment apart from speaking of my experience.

Police officers the world over develop a "gut instinct" when it comes to whether people are bing evasive, and It is possible to differenciate between a person who is simply nervous dealing with authorities and a person who is nervous because he has something to hide. It's not a science but more an art form, and it can let you down sometimes but the majority of the time it is a tool that has brought about some big detections, and has saved members lives.

One other point, for those of you who are condemning the actions of this Garda, We are discussing a topic based on hearsay, as the OP was not present and is giving us information that she is not 100% sure of. That is hearsay. The only persons who know for sure are the member, her son, the custody officer, and the sergeant in charge of the station on that night.

Again because of this I would advise the OP to contact the Sergeant or the member in question, meet with them and discuss the incident.

Ken. · 05-06-2011 8:42pm

I'm not bad mouthing your son o.p,just 16 year olds in general.

Bouncer: I think that guy has drugs. Been acting strange.

A.G.S. approaches youth.

A.G.S: I think you might have drugs on you so i'm searching you under blah blah section.

16 year old smart ass: Sure i do, there up my ass.

Queue one strip search.

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 8:56pm

lucyfur09 wrote: »

I'm not bad mouthing your son o.p,just 16 year olds in general.

Bouncer: I think that guy has drugs. Been acting strange.

A.G.S. approaches youth.

A.G.S: I think you might have drugs on you so i'm searching you under blah blah section.

16 year old smart ass: Sure i do, there up my ass.

Queue one strip search.

does that justify this happening to a 16 year old? i would put an experience like this up there with being raped! and its sickening to see member showing approval of this statement

op might want to seek legal advice and consider bringing the bouncer to court for deformation of chacter

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 9:00pm

as a member of ags...what is procedure for the strip search of a 16 year old? is a doctor or member of the family required to be present?

kowloon · 05-06-2011 9:02pm

This is why you get the girls to carry the drugs.

Do you think perhaps they were trying to scare him by humiliation?

source · 05-06-2011 9:03pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

does that justify this happening to a 16 year old? i would put an experience like this up there with being raped! and its sickening to see member showing approval of this statement

op might want to seek legal advice and consider bringing the bouncer to court for deformation of chacter

I find it sickening that a person would condemn a member of AGS based on hearsay. I thanked that post because I've had the similar said to me.

amen · 05-06-2011 9:07pm

some interesting items on this thread.

is there anything to stop a male garda strip searching a female (esp one under 18) and vica versa?

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 9:08pm

foinse wrote: »

I find it sickening that a person would condemn a member of AGS based on hearsay. I thanked that post because I've had the similar said to me.

did you carry out a strip search because of a statement like that...if it was a 16yo being strip searched is it required that a doctor or member of his family be present? as a profesional would you take the word of a bouncer to justify such a search?

MagicSean · 05-06-2011 9:29pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

does that justify this happening to a 16 year old? i would put an experience like this up there with being raped! and its sickening to see member showing approval of this statement

op might want to seek legal advice and consider bringing the bouncer to court for deformation of chacter

Clearly you've never dealt with a rape victim.

And the word is defamation.

Ken. · 05-06-2011 9:33pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

does that justify this happening to a 16 year old? i would put an experience like this up there with being raped! and its sickening to see member showing approval of this statement

op might want to seek legal advice and consider bringing the bouncer to court for deformation of chacter

I didn't say it justified it, i was just saying how it might have come about.

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 9:37pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Clearly you've never dealt with a rape victim.

And the word is defamation.

youve clearly never been strip searched as a teenager

you correcting my spelling isnt going to make it justified.

maybe you can tell me the procedure for the strip search of a 16 year old? is a doctor or member of there family required to be there?

caseyann · 05-06-2011 10:19pm

I personally am not condemning the Garda,but i am questioning his reasoning strip searching a 16 year old kid with no convictions on the say of a bouncer.
If all Garda went around strip searching someone because someone else said,they may have drugs on them?

There would be alot of privacy invaded and basically breach of human rights.

caseyann · 05-06-2011 10:30pm

foinse wrote: »

Depending on whether the member believes you are trustworthy, that your information is legit, then yes he may search the person that you point out.

Hearsay is when a person tells another person something, and that second person uses that information to inform the gardai of something.

A bouncer telling a member of AGS something they have seen or believe they have seen is not hearsay.

If the bouncer told the Garda that he believed the youth had drugs on him, because a passer-by told him....that would be hearsay.

@casey-ann, a strip search is not an invasive search. getting the detainee to squat is not an invasive search. Putting on a latex glove and sticking your finger up the detainee's ar5e to see what's up there, is an invasive search and is not a search that is performed by AGS, It is conducted by a Doctor.

OP you've gotten some very very bad advice in this thread. If you want to check out the validity of this search, contact the member or his sergeant. Tell them that you're concerned about your son, as he was brought in for a search. Ask for the details surrounding this search. The member will tell you all you need to know.

Not to be bad foinse,i consider all nudity unwanted invasive and squatting and coughing i consider the most demeaning thing ever also.So to me all invasive and potentially traumatic,and if a Garda asked me to do that i would be asking for a solicitor and a medical doctor and doing it for no one else,on top of proof and certainly not on the word of some bouncer.

angelfire9 · 05-06-2011 10:31pm

amen wrote: »

some interesting items on this thread.

is there anything to stop a male garda strip searching a female (esp one under 18) and vica versa?

Yes
Males of any age are to be searched by male officers only
Ditto females can only be searched by females

angelfire9 · 05-06-2011 10:34pm

caseyann wrote: »

Not to be bad foinse,i consider all nudity unwanted invasive and squatting and coughing i consider the most demeaning thing ever also.So to me all invasive and potentially traumatic,and if a Garda asked me to do that i would be asking for a solicitor and a medical doctor and doing it for no one else,on top of proof and certainly not on the word of some bouncer.

We have no idea whether it was purely done on the word of the bouncer
I doubt it somehow
The Garda might have seen or heard something that implied the person in question was involved in drugs
We do not know if the youth in question was sober or intoxicated either

People under the influence say some pretty stupid things
Young lads and lassies stay stupid things when they are sober too!

Especially cocky young fellas trying to be "big men" in front of their mates!

caseyann · 05-06-2011 10:39pm

angelfire9 wrote: »

We have no idea whether it was purely done on the word of the bouncer
I doubt it somehow
The Garda might have seen or heard something that implied the person in question was involved in drugs
We do not know if the youth in question was sober or intoxicated either

People under the influence say some pretty stupid things
Young lads and lassies stay stupid things when they are sober too!

Especially cocky young fellas trying to be "big men" in front of their mates!

Well since i am going by what OP says the Garda said.So therefore the Garda strip searched that kid on the word of a bouncer.

All you are doing is stereo typing and making assumptions.

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 10:42pm

angelfire9 wrote: »

We have no idea whether it was purely done on the word of the bouncer
I doubt it somehow
The Garda might have seen or heard something that implied the person in question was involved in drugs
We do not know if the youth in question was sober or intoxicated either

People under the influence say some pretty stupid things
Young lads and lassies stay stupid things when they are sober too!

Especially cocky young fellas trying to be "big men" in front of their mates!

are you a member?

Resend · 05-06-2011 10:49pm

foinse wrote: »

Depending on whether the member believes you are trustworthy, that your information is legit, then yes he may search the person that you point out.

Hearsay is when a person tells another person something, and that second person uses that information to inform the gardai of something.

A bouncer telling a member of AGS something they have seen or believe they have seen is not hearsay.

If the bouncer told the Garda that he believed the youth had drugs on him, because a passer-by told him....that would be hearsay.

@casey-ann, a strip search is not an invasive search. getting the detainee to squat is not an invasive search. Putting on a latex glove and sticking your finger up the detainee's ar5e to see what's up there, is an invasive search and is not a search that is performed by AGS, It is conducted by a Doctor.

OP you've gotten some very very bad advice in this thread. If you want to check out the validity of this search, contact the member or his sergeant. Tell them that you're concerned about your son, as he was brought in for a search. Ask for the details surrounding this search. The member will tell you all you need to know.

how do you know? if the gardai did something wrong they will tell? OP get legal advice

Resend · 05-06-2011 10:56pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

does that justify this happening to a 16 year old? i would put an experience like this up there with being raped! and its sickening to see member showing approval of this statement

op might want to seek legal advice and consider bringing the bouncer to court for deformation of chacter

a lot of what members post here is sickening

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 10:57pm

Resend wrote: »

a lot of what members post here is sickening

members of ags

Resend · 05-06-2011 11:06pm

Technoprisoner wrote: »

members of ags

what i meant

Technoprisoner · 05-06-2011 11:07pm

Resend wrote: »

what i meant

sorry bit of a cold/flu misunderstood you

maiden · 06-06-2011 12:26am

On my phoneso not going to write a lot. Yes the guard told me he went on what the bouncer said. He approached my son who was sitting on the ground waiting for the function to finish. My son didnt refuse to answer any questions or be the big man, the gurd told me that he was polite and mannerly.

One other question i have, should i have been notified as soon as he was brought to the station, not when he was ready to be collected? His brothers and i were so worried, no one knew where he was and he wasnt answering his phone

skippey · 06-06-2011 12:45am

As a parent i am shocked this could happen to a child.
Regardless if it was legal or not what happened was wrong wrong wrong and that child will have some seriously negative experience of our Gardai to bring with him into adulthood.

Laisurg · 06-06-2011 1:01am

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Didn't go to parties at 16. My parents were quite strict. Never cared much for booze or mind altering stuff either. Still don't.

Well you sound like you're no craic at all.

On a serious note though op i think you should file a complaint, it's very odd that a guard would take someone back to the station and strip search them on the word of a bouncer after finding nothing in a normal search, i think you should complain to the hotel about the bouncer as well.

maiden · 06-06-2011 10:37am

angelfire9 wrote: »

We have no idea whether it was purely done on the word of the bouncer
I doubt it somehow
The Garda might have seen or heard something that implied the person in question was involved in drugs
We do not know if the youth in question was sober or intoxicated either

People under the influence say some pretty stupid things
Young lads and lassies stay stupid things when they are sober too!

Especially cocky young fellas trying to be "big men" in front of their mates!

Ok, can you please read my posts at the beginning! The guard said he was nice and polite and was no bother!!!

And he wasnt with his mates, he was on he's own outside the hotel!

maiden · 06-06-2011 10:53am

foinse wrote: »

Depending on whether the member believes you are trustworthy, that your information is legit, then yes he may search the person that you point out.

Hearsay is when a person tells another person something, and that second person uses that information to inform the gardai of something.

A bouncer telling a member of AGS something they have seen or believe they have seen is not hearsay.

If the bouncer told the Garda that he believed the youth had drugs on him, because a passer-by told him....that would be hearsay.

@casey-ann, a strip search is not an invasive search. getting the detainee to squat is not an invasive search. Putting on a latex glove and sticking your finger up the detainee's ar5e to see what's up there, is an invasive search and is not a search that is performed by AGS, It is conducted by a Doctor.

OP you've gotten some very very bad advice in this thread. If you want to check out the validity of this search, contact the member or his sergeant. Tell them that you're concerned about your son, as he was brought in for a search. Ask for the details surrounding this search. The member will tell you all you need to know.

Hiya, yeah a few days later I rang the station and the guard who answered happened to be the sergeant, he just told me that they are perfectly within their rights to do what they did, and he kind of fobbed me off a bit so that was why i came on here to ask the question!

Also im not going to sue anyone or get someone fired, but i would make a complaint!!!!!

shanered · 06-06-2011 11:12am

No you SHOULD make an inquiry, and as I received a dig for mentioning pedophile garda, I want to make the statement that pedophiles can be in any line of work, even your dentist could be a pedophile, and measures should be put in place when professionals are put in positions of power because as the point I tried to make earlier is that the are people/groups of people who would/have engaged in this type of behavior, I am not singling out members of an garda siochanna, but just say measures should be put in place for all children, ESPECIALLY those under the age of consent to have safe-guards in relation to them being stripped naked and made squat and cough or anything of that nature, while one/two older men/women look on.
I has to be noted that this is a humiliating situation, and it is only fair that a guardian is present to ensure everything is carried out correctly, such as if the minor was giving a statement.
Now, I believe any upstanding member of An Garda would agree with me that not all garda are angels, and like any job, safety measurements should put in place to protect citizens and (what this issue) children, from Garda, as not every member is as straight laced as the public would want to believe.
But this is true in all walks of life, not just An Garda, but every profession.
So please don't take this as a dig to the Garda, just take this as a measure that protects children and support it instead of going against me and making out that I am in any way anti-garda.

newbie2 · 06-06-2011 11:15am

@ OP
Contact the Garda ombudaman. They'll tell you if you have a legit complaint or not.

Is your complaint admissible?

After receiving your complaint the first action undertaken by the Garda Ombudsman will be to determine whether your complaint is admissible.

The complaint is admissible if:

It is made by a person who is entitled to complain

The alleged behaviour is considered as misbehaviour

The complaint is made within the required timeframe

The complaint is not false or misleading

If your complaint is inadmissible you will be notified of the reason that it is inadmissible in writing by the Garda Ombudsman.

/Thread

maiden · 06-06-2011 11:27am

From all the links i have read here, no where does it state a cut off age for searching ie 16 year old and under cannot be strip searched without parent being present. So my understanding is that legally the gardai did nothing wrong....even though morally i think it is, and im disgusted and angry being his mother

Im wondering should i go to the childrens ombudsman???? Start there......

I had a question earlier, if someone could answer it that would be great

''should i have been notified as soon as he was brought to the station, not when he was ready to be collected? His brothers and i were so worried, no one knew where he was and he wasnt answering his phone''

Surely gardai cant take a child off the street and not notify anyone

source · 06-06-2011 12:16pm

maiden wrote: »

''should i have been notified as soon as he was brought to the station, not when he was ready to be collected? His brothers and i were so worried, no one knew where he was and he wasnt answering his phone''

Regulation 9 Criminal Justice Act 1984 (Treatment of Persons in Custody in Garda Siochana Stations) Regulations 1987/2006 states in the first subsection that:

Where an arrested person is under the age of seventeen years, the member in charge of the station concerned shall as soon as practicable—

(i) inform or cause to be informed a parent or guardian of the person—

(I) of his being in custody in the station,

(II) in ordinary language of the offence or other matter in respect of which he has been arrested, and

(III) of his entitlement to consult a solicitor, and

(ii) request the parent or guardian to attend at the station without delay.

In other words, it doesn't have to be done as soon as the child walks in the door, but a parent does have to be contacted and the child will only be released into the custody of a parent or guardian over the age of 18 years. This is to allow for when the station is busy and the other duties of the members involved are taking precedence.

From entry into the station to end of search if it wasn't busy would have taken no more than a couple of minutes. So even if it was quiet I don't think it was unreasonable for you to be called once the search was finished, and well within the powers and rights of the members on the night.

maiden · 06-06-2011 12:27pm

Thanks! That answered my question

16 year old strip searched

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