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16 year old strip searched

  • 04-06-2011 6:44pm
    #1
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭


    My 16 year old was strip searched last week.Short version, he was at a do when the gardai were called due to a disturbance (son not involved). Bouncer said something to guards re my son maybe having drugs. he was patted down but nothing found and brought to garda station where he was strip searched, made strip, squat and cough! Nothing found!

    The guards rang me to say he was at the station and informed me of what i wrote above, and also said he was nice and polite and gave them no trouble.

    A few days later this was bothering me, so rang the guards, and they said they didnt need my consent etc. I said ye need me to be there if he has to make a statement but for something so invasive as a strip search, they dont need permission.

    Of course i am taking his word for it but i just want to make sure this is true, can anyone enlighten me????

    Thanks!


«13456

Comments

  • #2
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    You appear to be more bothered about the fact he was searched than the fact that he was 16 and at a party with drugs.


  • #3
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    No Sean im not more bothered about that, believe me thats a whole new thread and war in the house!!!!

    Im just wondering, thats all! Is that ok with you??

    And just to mention it was a function to do with his school


  • #4
    xaoifsx
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭xaoifsx


    theres partyies with drugs everywhere but that doesn't necessarily mean that he took them. people can say no


  • #5
    xaoifsx
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭xaoifsx


    someone always has drugs. you may not think or know it, but they do..im not justifying it or anything but some people have them anywhere. im completly against them but you cant do anything to prevent it. just hope they get caught...


  • #6
    Profiler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Profiler


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    You appear to be more bothered about the fact he was searched than the fact that he was 16 and at a party with drugs.

    If you go to a pub or a club or a party tonight chances are there will be someone there with drugs. Will you be "concerned" enough to not go out? "concerned" enough to never go out again?

    I'm not 100% sure, however I thought 18 was the youngest someone could be before being strip searched. At the very least it was improper for them to search a minor like that while not in presence of an adult. A parent or guardian should have been there. Is a 16 year old capable under the law of giving consent to such a search?

    (edit) See ---> here the Gardai can search you if you are under 18, however it says wherever possible a Doctor should carry out the search.

    Playing devils advocate here but if a 16 year old complaints that some inappropriate touching had taken place, then the Gardai would have no independent evidence to fall back on.


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  • #7
    Technoprisoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    i think what they have done was illegal...as far as im aware they can not strip search a minor


  • #8
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    It was a function in a hotel, and of course my son denied any involvement with drugs but im not naive!!!!

    The guard told me the bouncer pointed him out and said he may have drugs on him, and thats fair enough, im just wondering about the legalites of it??


  • #9
    mistyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭mistyd


    Has your son ever been in trouble with the gardai before?
    Did you get the name of the guard who rang you?

    If your son was never in trouble before with the law, drugs, then i would most certainly go to see a solicitor. Surely there would have to be a reason to be strip searched, how humiliating it must have been for a teenager (or anybody) to do this, but if it was done on the word of a bouncer???????

    Go see a solicitor, I certainly would if it was my son, I'd be asking serious questions why a minor was told to take his clothes off in front of adults without a guardian present, doesn't sound quite right.


  • #10
    Profiler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Profiler


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    You appear to be more bothered about the fact he was searched than the fact that he was 16 and at a party with drugs.

    Were there drugs at the Party? I see nothing in any of the posts on this thread that confirm that?

    There was an unproven suspicion he son had drugs but it appears the Gardai were there in respect of a disturbance.


  • #11
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    He is very upset over it, when the guard rang me, he told me they had searched him at the hotel and brought him to the station for a 'further search' which i assumed meant they striped him to maybe his boxers. I only found out about the squat and cough when my son told me the next day.

    He does have a caution for 'eating mars bars'. His friends broke into a kiosk and stole bars and drinks of which my son happily ate and drank!!


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  • #12
    Profiler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Profiler


    maiden wrote: »
    The guard told me the bouncer pointed him out and said he may have drugs on him, and thats fair enough, im just wondering about the legalites of it??

    As it was the bouncer who pointed out your son then I would be straight on to the Bouncer and his employers demanding at least an apology.


  • #13
    Hootanany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Illegal i would say definitely complain to the ombudsman


  • #14
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    The whole thing just isnt sitting right with me, I know its probably because Im his mam, and the guard telling me he was well within his rights to strip search him at 16.

    maybe i should seek legal advice and find out for sure, i would hate to think that this guard lied to me


  • #15
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Profiler wrote: »
    If you go to a pub or a club or a party tonight chances are there will be someone there with drugs. Will you be "concerned" enough to not go out? "concerned" enough to never go out again?

    He wasn't just at a party with drugs. He was acting in such a way that the staff believed him to be in posession of them.
    Profiler wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure, however I thought 18 was the youngest someone could be before being strip searched. At the very least it was improper for them to search a minor like that while not in presence of an adult. A parent or guardian should have been there. Is a 16 year old capable under the law of giving consent to such a search?

    Gardaí do not need consent to do a search under the drugs act.
    Profiler wrote: »
    Playing devils advocate here but if a 16 year old complaints that some inappropriate touching had taken place, then the Gardai would have no independent evidence to fall back on.

    There most likely would have been more than one Garda present and most custody areas have cameras these days.
    maiden wrote: »
    He is very upset over it, when the guard rang me, he told me they had searched him at the hotel and brought him to the station for a 'further search' which i assumed meant they striped him to maybe his boxers. I only found out about the squat and cough when my son told me the next day.

    He does have a caution for 'eating mars bars'. His friends broke into a kiosk and stole bars and drinks of which my son happily ate and drank!!

    You mean posessing stolen property?


  • #16
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    Yeah, possessing and eating stolen property


  • #17
    Jagle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Jagle


    i thought since your son is a minor there would be definite grounds for a parent/gaurdian being there, go to a solicitor sounds dodgy


  • #18
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    ''Gardaí do not need consent to do a search under the drugs act.''



    Ok, this is what Im looking for, but im assuming there is an age cut off ie Im sure the guards cant search 12 year old or can they??

    have you a link to this info?


  • #19
    Profiler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Profiler


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    He wasn't just at a party with drugs. He was acting in such a way that the staff believed him to be in posession of them.
    No drugs have been confirmed found, you are assuming the kid was at a party with drugs, if you have some fact to support you on this, please enlighten us.

    You are also assuming that the kid was acting in a particular way, again if you have fact to support that supposition then please, enlighten us.

    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Gardaí do not need consent to do a search under the drugs act.
    So a 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 or even 16 year old refuses to searched and the Gardai can drag them down to the station and strip them?
    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    There most likely would have been more than one Garda present and most custody areas have cameras these days.
    A guess, still at least it's something new, a change from an assumption.


  • #20
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    maiden wrote: »
    Yeah, possessing and eating stolen property

    No point trying to make a joke of it. He was involved in a theft. I don't understand why so many parents try to minimalise their childrens bad behaviour these days. Credit where it's due though, at least you didn't pull the ADD card.

    In answer to your question, it depends on the circumstances of his custody. Once he is in custody it is up to the member in charge of prisoners to decide on how he is searched. If you are not happy make a complaint to the Ombudsman or consult a solicitor.

    To my knowledge there is no bar to searching someone under 18 who is unaccompanied. Citizens information seems to agree http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/powers_of_search.html


  • #21
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Profiler wrote: »
    No drugs have been confirmed found, you are assuming the kid was at a party with drugs, if you have some fact to support you on this, please enlighten us.

    You are also assuming that the kid was acting in a particular way, again if you have fact to support that supposition then please, enlighten us.

    Actually it was you who made the assumption there would be drugs
    Profiler wrote: »
    If you go to a pub or a club or a party tonight chances are there will be someone there with drugs.


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  • #22
    alexlyons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭alexlyons


    Personal searches

    A garda can ask you to stop at any time. In certain circumstances, such as when you are driving, you must stop if asked to by a Garda. A garda can search you, without your consent, if the garda has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence. This includes people under the age of 18. The Garda should tell you why you are being searched.

    From link above.

    Someone reported a crime. The bouncer being the someone, the possession of illegal drugs being the crime. The Gardai searched, found no evidence, and released.

    /thread


  • #23
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    I dont joke about it at home, its taken very seriously! And he knows that, but im speaking to adults here and and to be honest i made light of it cause otherwise i would probably be crying. No he doesnt have ADD, in fact he is very shy and mild mannered! And I wouldnt pull any excuse for bad behaviour!!!!!!!!!

    Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, no excuses!!!!

    I think, that you think that i am on here to say 'oh my poor son, he is so wronged' poor me, i have the best son in the world and the gardai are bullies'' WELL IM NOT!!

    Im just here looking for a bit of help with a situation that i know nothing about


  • #24
    tallaghtmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,724 ✭✭✭tallaghtmick


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    You appear to be more bothered about the fact he was searched than the fact that he was 16 and at a party with drugs.

    and when you where 16 all the parties you went to had no drink or drugs yeh?


  • #25
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Actually it was you who made the assumption there would be drugs


    Let me guess, you are a Garda?


  • #26
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    And i have no prob with the searching at the hotel, its the squat and cough that has me bothered. I have read all the links about the searches but its not referring to 'strip searching' or is that what it actually means


  • #27
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    A GArda is entitled to search a person if he/she reasonably suspects that person is in possession of drugs. It is possible that following the conversation with the bouncer that the Garda could form such a suspicion; however, a mere allegation or suspicion on the part of the bouncer would not, in my view, be sufficient. Prior experience of the suspect or experience of the expertise of the bouncer might.

    A strip search should only be carried out where necessary as your son has a right to his bodily integrity. If your son does not have any form in this area and in the event that nothing was found on the initial search, I cannot see how a strip search wold have been necessary. Someone supplying drugs in a nightclub does not secret them where the sun don't shine!

    I would speak with the local sergeant or super to inquire into the foundation of their suspiscions.


  • #28
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    tallaghtmick wrote: »
    and when you where 16 all the parties you went to had no drink or drugs yeh?

    Didn't go to parties at 16. My parents were quite strict. Never cared much for booze or mind altering stuff either. Still don't.
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Let me guess, you are a Garda?

    I have many qualifications.
    maiden wrote: »
    And i have no prob with the searching at the hotel, its the squat and cough that has me bothered. I have read all the links about the searches but its not referring to 'strip searching' or is that what it actually means

    A search is a search. A member of higher rank would authorise a strip search and can supervise it if necessary. A doctor would perfom an internal search.


  • #29
    maiden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭maiden


    Marcusm, thats exactly what i think. Fair enough to the search outside the hotel, and to point out he has never had 'drug' issues before.


  • #30
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Marcusm wrote: »
    A GArda is entitled to search a person if he/she reasonably suspects that person is in possession of drugs. It is possible that following the conversation with the bouncer that the Garda could form such a suspicion; however, a mere allegation or suspicion on the part of the bouncer would not, in my view, be sufficient. Prior experience of the suspect or experience of the expertise of the bouncer might.

    A strip search should only be carried out where necessary as your son has a right to his bodily integrity. If your son does not have any form in this area and in the event that nothing was found on the initial search, I cannot see how a strip search wold have been necessary. Someone supplying drugs in a nightclub does not secret them where the sun don't shine!

    I would speak with the local sergeant or super to inquire into the foundation of their suspiscions.

    They are not often done. If the guy appeared to be under the influence and nothing was found it might be deemed necessary.

    Having said that you would be surprised how many people do it of their own accord and "assume the position" because they watch way too much american cop tv.


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  • #31
    tallaghtmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,724 ✭✭✭tallaghtmick


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Didn't go to parties at 16. My parents were quite strict. Never cared much for booze or mind altering stuff either. Still don't.



    I have many qualifications.



    A search is a search. A member of higher rank would authorise a strip search and can supervise it if necessary. A doctor would perfom an internal search.

    To quote superintendant Chalmers "the rod up that man's butt must have a rod up its butt"


This discussion has been closed.
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