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Aust PM says Political correctness is dead

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    #2
    BehindTheScenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭BehindTheScenes


    old_aussie wrote: »
    About time for this change.

    PRIME Minister Julia Gillard has charged into the asylum-seeker debate, indicating she will take a hard line approach to stop boat arrivals and declaring political correctness should be "swept out of the away".

    Why should the Australian culture be watered down by foreign cultures?

    We are NOT a multicultural society, it's the Australian culture and that's how it should stay.

    If people don't want to assimilate into the Australian culture, then don't come here, or if they're already here and want to express other views and be a liar like Sheik Hilaly the muslim leader in Sydney.

    If people don't like it here then piss-off back to your own country or somewhere that the might like

    Sign on the door to Australia...Piss-off, We're Full.

    Yeah I'm sure the auld Aborigine lads were thinking the same thing back in the day.


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    #3
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    Kind of ironic , Gillard was born in Wales.
    This is pre-electionering designed to appeal to the channel 7 educated bogans.


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    #4
    cavedave
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    Sign on the door to Australia...Piss-off, We're Full
    233rd in the world for population density at 2.907 people per square kilometer

    Ireland is 144th with 63 people per square km


    When you become more sparsely populated than the Sahara in 236th place will you open up your jam packed country?


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    #5
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    Not often you get to see Australia and culture in the same sentence.


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    #6
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    If political correctness is out the window can I call her and people like her "racist scum?"

    Seriously, it's good, old-fashioned us vs them politics. Play on the moronic fears of the ignorant, guaranteed vote winner.


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    #7
    simonj
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    old_aussie wrote: »


    If people don't want to assimilate into the Australian culture, then don't come here, or if they're already here and want to express other views and be a liar like Sheik Hilaly the muslim leader in Sydney.

    The former PM John Howard had to tell Sheik Hilaly to pull his head in and that his views were not those of Australians.

    As John Howard and Kim Beazley called for Muslims to act against Sheik Hilaly, Jamal Rifi, from the Australian Muslim Doctors Against Violence, pleaded with the mufti: "Please step down, I urge you to step down. Enough is enough."

    Then the muslim leader Sheik Hilaly was then caught red handed trying to frame a political rival, and lying to police.

    He should have been deported long ago

    I interviewed Imam Haseem Farich for worldsurfradio years ago, an Aussie born Muslim cleric.
    Where would you deport him to?

    As with the Christian right you will get people like Hilaly who use religion to further their own political agenda, and to maintain power.
    The cartoon debacle in Denmark was as much due to an internal power struggle than any particular affront.

    For people who promote a reward in the next life, a lot of Imams, Bishops etc. seem very keen to grab as mush as they can in this one.

    It is good to see people like Farich, young, articulate and progressive replace the older, more conservative clerics in the Sunni Lebanese community.
    Hes also a tidy surfer.

    And it took regular ozzies like the Abertons and co. from Marubra to stop people trying to burn down Lakemba mosque in Sydney.

    If Australian culture, or identity, is in danger from anything, I found the strip-malling of Australian cities by American and UK franchises fare more intrusive than the odd muslim I'd see in Sydney


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    #8
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    I think there is a world of difference between the link to what she said. And the Original post here.

    Julia is not John Howard and John Howard never said the latter part of the post either despite the circulation of an email for years.


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    #9
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    So much woo is made about PC. PC is a social construct and is entirely a social creation. Everybody has social standards. You do not shout at a fat person in a restaurant, do you? You don't scream at a smoker outside a shop? Why would you tell a black person 'to go back wherever they came from'? PC is constantly violated and the only people who complain about it are the kind of people you wouldn't allow into your home in the first place.


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    #10
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Lesson 1 of Australian politics- If you're facing into an election and look like losing it play the race card.

    Works everytime, especially in a country where racism is rampant.


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    #11
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    BehindTheScenes wrote: »
    Yeah I'm sure the auld Aborigine lads were thinking the same thing back in the day.

    If they did, they were right


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    #12
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    old_aussie wrote: »
    About time for this change.

    PRIME Minister Julia Gillard has charged into the asylum-seeker debate, indicating she will take a hard line approach to stop boat arrivals and declaring political correctness should be "swept out of the away"..

    so we can once again freely refer to them as dirty failed convicts?


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    #13
    simonj
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    so we can once again freely refer to them as dirty failed convicts?

    dirty failed English convicts! - All the Irish sent there were - of course - political prisoners ;)


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    #14
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    cavedave wrote: »
    233rd in the world for population density at 2.907 people per square kilometer

    Ireland is 144th with 63 people per square km


    When you become more sparsely populated than the Sahara in 236th place will you open up your jam packed country?


    Cop on a vast amount of that continent is uninhabitable


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    #15
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I don't get it, when Sheik Hilaly says something that isn't PC, its bad, but when other people say non-PC stuff its good? People really need to make up there minds, either its ok for everyone to be not PC or for no one to be not PC. You can't have it both ways. What the Sheik is says is clearly not PC, so I would expect the Anti-PC crowd to be praising the man ;). I do find threads like this funny, on the one hand banging on about hating political correctness, and then moaning about other people who say non-PC stuff that they don't like.


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    #16
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    wes wrote: »
    I don't get it, when Sheik Hilaly says something that isn't PC, its bad, but when other people say non-PC stuff its good? People really need to make up there minds, either its ok for everyone to be not PC or for no one to be not PC. You can't have it both ways. What the Sheik is says is clearly not PC, so I would expect the Anti-PC crowd to be praising the man ;). I do find threads like this funny, on the one hand banging on about hating political correctness, and then moaning about other people who say non-PC stuff that they don't like.

    People don't dislike Hilaly because he's not politically correct. They dislike him because he denies the holocaust, organises marches against bikinis and supports terrorism.


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    #17
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    so those not from 'Christian Countries' are unwanted eh Old Ausie??

    As someone else pointed out The Americanisation of the culture here is a far more worrying thing.

    this country WAS built on the notion of Mateship and a Fair Go for everyone, what happened to that, when did we turn to an 'I'm allright Jack, so F**k you' attitude


    Out of interest what is your take on Dr Jayent Patel??

    I bet I could guess ;)


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    #18
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    old_aussie wrote: »

    We are NOT a multicultural society, it's the Australian culture and that's how it should stay.

    Where did Australian culture come from? I bet its a mix from anglo-saxon/celtic cultures with a tiny native culture thrown in. Isnt that Multi-Culturalism right there.

    633611424113169671-EpicFail.jpg


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    #19
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    RATM wrote: »
    Lesson 1 of Australian politics- If you're facing into an election and look like losing it play the race card.

    Works everytime, especially in a country where racism is rampant.

    A little over the top there to be honest. Australia has its fair share of ignorant people maybe more than other countries but EVERYONE gets a fair go here. There is NO systematic abuses of racism nor are there any barriers to a better life if you want to work hard enough for it.


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    #20
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Memnoch wrote: »
    If political correctness is out the window can I call her and people like her "racist scum?"

    Seriously, it's good, old-fashioned us vs them politics. Play on the moronic fears of the ignorant, guaranteed vote winner.

    No you cant because that she is not. She knows full well the value of being a migrant herself as she was one. Did you even read the article?

    I think not!

    Well let us see what she says.
    Political correctness was dead and should be "swept out of the way" in such sensitive national debates;

    Australia needed an "effective" border protection policy.

    "I do understand the concerns when people see boats looming on the horizon, I also understand that there's nothing humanitarian about people being on boats and potentially at risk of losing their lives at sea."

    However in the same article...
    "I certainly dismiss labels like intolerant or racist because people raise concerns about border security, but we've also got to be very alive to the complexity of this and that there's no quick fix,"

    So it's basicly a call to discuss the issue without fear and loathing from both sides. Hmmm maybe something we can do here.


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    #21
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    People don't dislike Hilaly because he's not politically correct. They dislike him because he denies the holocaust, organises marches against bikinis and supports terrorism.

    Yes, and all these are non-PC positions last time I checked. Those are terribly politically incorrect things to say, and I am sure he would view the Iraqi Jihadi's as a resistance, right or wrongly, as opposed to terrorists, which again is very non-PC. Seems to me that some folk want to say non-PC things, but are offended when some other people say non-PC stuff they don't like.


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    #22
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    wes wrote: »
    Yes, and all these are non-PC positions last time I checked. Those are terribly politically incorrect things to say, and I am sure he would view the Iraqi Jihadi's as a resistance, right or wrongly, as opposed to terrorists, which again is very non-PC. Seems to me that some folk want to say non-PC things, but are offended when some other people say non-PC stuff they don't like.

    Consider taking a course in elementary logic.

    A = somebody violating political correctness to say something like 'I just wish those foreigners would marry their own kind'

    B = Somebody violating poltical correctness to say something like 'I just wish we could round up all the foreigners, place them in concentration camps, and sacrifice them to our Gods'

    B is greater than A. Unfortunately we live in a world where all statements do not have equal value.


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    #23
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Denerick wrote: »
    Consider taking a course in elementary logic.

    A = somebody violating political correctness to say something like 'I just wish those foreigners would marry their own kind'

    B = Somebody violating poltical correctness to say something like 'I just wish we could round up all the foreigners, place them in concentration camps, and sacrifice them to our Gods'

    B is greater than A. Unfortunately we live in a world where all statements do not have equal value.

    Who exactly decides what is and isn't a acceptable level of being non-PC?!? Is being non-PC only allowed as long as there is someone out there saying something nastier than you? Who are we not allowed to offend, and what is a acceptable level of offending someone?!?

    Seems to me that your application of logic needs some work, as someone else can make a statement that isn't quite as bad as A, and as per your apparent logic A would now be unacceptable. **EDIT**So, let say some say the following C, "I don't care who foreigners marry, as long as its not my daughter", so A > C. So is A is now not acceptable? Is that what your getting at? **END EDIT**

    Still, my point stands, people who go on about being non-PC, have a habit of complaining about other who aren't PC either.


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    #24
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    wes wrote: »
    Who exactly decides what is and isn't a acceptable level of being non-PC?!? Is being non-PC only allowed as long as there is someone out there saying something nastier than you? Who are we not allowed to offend, and what is a acceptable level of offending someone?!?

    Seems to me that your application of logic needs some work, as someone else can make a statement that isn't quite as bad as A, and as per your apparent logic A would now be unacceptable.

    Still, my point stands, people who go on about being non-PC, have a habit of complaining about other who aren't PC either.

    True. There is a divergent opinion of what PC actually is.

    Those who are against it seem to see it as a code designed to protect certain groups of people, usually minorities, while styfling their own group from saying anything. They see it as descriminatory.

    Personally I see it as a consensus. Just a way to not offend people for the sake of hurting them. I see it as diplomacy.

    And yes before anyone jumps at me i know free speech is important thats why Political correctness is not a legal thing


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    #25
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    I think we all should be able to debate immigration while being generally politically correct. It's not PC, reasonable or sensible to say 'all Muslims out'. However it's not un-PC to say men like Hilaly and what he stands for (read some of his hateful speeches on wiki) should be deported, what he spouts should not be tolerated. Bringing up the aborigines while demonstrating lovely irony, is not helpful. Like Pittens said if the aborigines adopted a 'foreigners out' stance they would be better off. And while people like to point out the open racism in Oz it's ironic they stereotype all Australians as racist- quite racist in itself.

    If a debate on immigration has to happen it should not entertain suggestions of excluding on masse whole cultures/ethnicities/races. People have the right to decide who comes into their country and the right to exclude (on an individual basis) wasters and leeches. Some individuals may be incompatable but you cannot summarise an entire people as incompatable - that's just not correct, politically or otherwise.


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    #26
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    jank wrote: »
    So it's basicly a call to discuss the issue without fear and loathing from both sides. Hmmm maybe something we can do here.

    You're making me laugh. The whole, "i'm not intolerant or racist, these are complex issues that need to be carefully examined," is a standard disclaimer always thrown out when making these kind of statements, precisely because the people making them know the racist nature of their original statement.

    It doesn't mitigate anything as far as I'm concerned.

    What both sides? Us vs them again.

    There isn't anything to be done. Racism is about entitlement, and selfishness, has been since humanity was created. The only way to move forward is to remove this kind of nonsense fear mongering.

    No no no, it's not that our political, social and economic systems are failing, it's those dirty immigrants that are less than a tiny minority of our population that are stretching these systems and their dependent services to breaking point. Yes, blame them, hate them, fear them, but whatever you do, don't look at the law makers and the people responsible for fixing things, cause it's not our fault, and if only this small minority of people (WHO LOOK DIFFERENT TO YOU) were removed everything would be much better and our services that can't cope will give you everything you need.


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    #27
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    wes wrote: »
    Who exactly decides what is and isn't a acceptable level of being non-PC?!? Is being non-PC only allowed as long as there is someone out there saying something nastier than you? Who are we not allowed to offend, and what is a acceptable level of offending someone?!?

    Seems to me that your application of logic needs some work, as someone else can make a statement that isn't quite as bad as A, and as per your apparent logic A would now be unacceptable. **EDIT**So, let say some say the following C, "I don't care who foreigners marry, as long as its not my daughter", so A > C. So is A is now not acceptable? Is that what your getting at? **END EDIT**

    Still, my point stands, people who go on about being non-PC, have a habit of complaining about other who aren't PC either.

    You are a curious fellow. Where did I say that A was acceptable? I merely said that B is more extreme than A, hence it stands to reason that the person muttering vitriol B cannot be compared to the person muttering vitriol A. Making distinctions between sentances is a difficult task, I admit, but believe me it is possible.


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    #28
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    RATM wrote: »
    Lesson 1 of Australian politics- If you're facing into an election and look like losing it play the race card.

    Works everytime, especially in a country where racism is rampant.

    thats a generalisation and a half if there ever was one. id imagine australians are no more racist than any other nationality.


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    #29
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Denerick wrote: »
    You are a curious fellow. Where did I say that A was acceptable? I merely said that B is more extreme than A, hence it stands to reason that the person muttering vitriol B cannot be compared to the person muttering vitriol A. Making distinctions between sentances is a difficult task, I admit, but believe me it is possible.

    Sure, it is possibe, but people just tend to make a general rant against being PC most of the time, and then complain about another guy who is being not PC at the same time. What the other guy may be saying may be worse, but then what there saying is also worse than what someone else is saying.


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    #30
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Memnoch wrote: »
    No no no, it's not that our political, social and economic systems are failing, it's those dirty immigrants that are less than a tiny minority of our population that are stretching these systems and their dependent services to breaking point. Yes, blame them, hate them, fear them, but whatever you do, don't look at the law makers and the people responsible for fixing things, cause it's not our fault, and if only this small minority of people (WHO LOOK DIFFERENT TO YOU) were removed everything would be much better and our services that can't cope will give you everything you need.

    I don't think you can accuse members of this forum of ignoring the failures of government/law makers/the system in favour of (as you rightly suggest) incorrectly blaming immigrants for all our woes. The vast majority of threads are about government policy decisions, there are very few on immigration. Immigration however still requires a policy unless you take an open Borders approach and I think people should be allowed discuss immigration policy without being painting as racist and as thinking immigrants are all evil


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    #31
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Laminations wrote: »
    Immigration however still requires a policy unless you take an open Borders approach and I think people should be allowed discuss immigration policy without being painting as racist and as thinking immigrants are all evil

    You see, there is always someone who will say something racist, xenophobic, or just down right false on most threads about immigration sadly.

    Hell, this is from the very first post in the thread:
    old_aussie wrote: »
    It's about time Australians stopped kowtowing to foreign asylem-seekers, especially those who are NOT fron christian countries.

    These threads will almost always descend into people, being unable to tell the difference between Asylum seekers, and immigrants, and claims about asylum seekers getting free car's and other things. The problem with discussion on immigrations, is that racists/bigots will almost always show up on these kinds of threads.


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