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Labour getting shouted at for opposing hunting bill

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    #32
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I just think it's pathetic when people claim that it's a "rural vs urban" debate; I detest hunting and coursing, etc, as so-called "sports".

    If you want to hunt something to kill and eat it, then at least there's a point to it....but as a "sport", it's pathetic.
    Agreed. Labour are populist hypocrites who have shown their true colours with this bill.


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    #33
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I supported the bill but thats not what im disappointed with. Labour went against what was best for the country because it was the best for them.

    The last thing we need is more politicians that are more interested in themselves than whats the right thing.

    More surprised that i was disappointed with a politician to be honest.


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    #34
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Seeing as we got the green slant, here's Labour and some FF backyardigans:

    Mr Costello said yesterday he remained opposed to blood sports, but would be voting with his party against the Bill because it was a bad piece of legislation.
    It related to one activity in one county and was no more than a “fig leaf” for the Green Party.
    “There was a total failure to consult with anybody and discuss the issues involved, including the jobs at risk.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0629/1224273556970.html

    Mr O'Donovan and some other Fianna Fáil backbenchers object to some of the provisions in the Bill which is due before the Dáil next week; he refused to back amendments tabled by Mr Gormley in the Seanad because he felt they were too vague.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0624/hunting.html


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    #35
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I just think it's pathetic when people claim that it's a "rural vs urban" debate; I detest hunting and coursing, etc, as so-called "sports".

    If you want to hunt something to kill and eat it, then at least there's a point to it....but as a "sport", it's pathetic.

    Liam, did we ever find out why Alan Shatter voted against the bill? He was very quiet on the matter.


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    #36
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wide Road wrote: »
    Liam, did we ever find out why Alan Shatter voted against the bill? He was very quiet on the matter.

    Why are you asking me ? What would I know about Alan Shatter and his motivation ?


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    #37
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    labour are some joke. did they not realise in their pathetic attempt to gain rural votes (which would only ever be minimal, they would need dramatic changes in social policy to make significant gains here imo) that they would lose far more from their base which supported them as a result of such stances on bloodsports.


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    #38
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    labour are some joke. did they not realise in their pathetic attempt to gain rural votes (which would only ever be minimal, they would need dramatic changes in social policy to make significant gains here imo) that they would lose far more from their base which supported them as a result of such stances on bloodsports

    What dramatic changes from what aspects of social policy ?

    I know I'm just-outside-suburbia (so not strictly either urban or rural) but I'd be perfectly OK with giving Labour at least a preference vote.


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    #39
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    What dramatic changes from what aspects of social policy ?

    I know I'm just-outside-suburbia (so not strictly either urban or rural) but I'd be perfectly OK with giving Labour at least a preference vote.

    they will never get the conservative rural vote with their stance on such things like abortion no matter what they do with bloodsports imo


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    #40
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    they will never get the conservative rural vote with their stance on such things like abortion no matter what they do with bloodsports imo

    Ah, so you've added the word "conservative".......surely there are conservative people living in urban areas too ?

    So therefore, is it not "conservative" versus "more liberal", rather than "urban" vs "rural" ?

    And out of curiosity, what is FF's stance on things like abortion or old-age pensions or civil partnerships ?

    Or do they just flip-flop over and back depending on what way the wind is blowing in order to maximise votes, without having any actual conviction or principles ?


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    #41
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Ah, so you've added the word "conservative".......surely there are conservative people living in urban areas too ?

    So therefore, is it not "conservative" versus "more liberal", rather than "urban" vs "rural" ?

    And out of curiosity, what is FF's stance on things like abortion or old-age pensions or civil partnerships ?

    Or do they just flip-flop over and back depending on what way the wind is blowing in order to maximise votes, without having any actual conviction or principles ?

    i think it's safe to assume that rural ireland is more conservative than urban ireland. well i didnt think i had to write "conservative" the first time, generally rural ireland is associated with conservatism, you must not have gathered that.

    why are you asking me about FF??


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    #42
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Wide Road wrote: »
    Liam, did we ever find out why Alan Shatter voted against the bill? He was very quiet on the matter.

    I think you mean me, nah I've emailed him twice and rang his office approx 10times without a call back.


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    #43
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    i think it's safe to assume that rural ireland is more conservative than urban ireland. well i didnt think i had to write "conservative" the first time, generally rural ireland is associated with conservatism, you must not have gathered that.

    It's probably anecdotally correct to assume that it's a bit more conservative, but it by no means has a monopoly on it, and most people who assume that it's vastly more conservative have no first-hand knowledge.

    Is an 80 year old in Dublin City more conservative than an 80 year old in Kerry ?

    It's simply not a "given".
    aDeener wrote: »
    why are you asking me about FF??

    Because people seem to think that FF have a rural vote base, and I find it astonishing that u-turns and the more (supposedly) liberal views and policies that FF have, and their u-turns, don't seem to impact on that; so it's strange that you assume that similar policies or u-turns within Labour would have such a negative impact.


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    #44
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    As a staunch Labour supporter I have to say that the party have made a fool of themselves on this occasion. As far as I can see, there were two sides to it. Rabbitte, Quinn and Gilmore tried to use it as a parliamentary tactic to bring down the government. Then some of the rural heads opposed it including Penrose who made the most embarrassing speech imaginable.


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    #45
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    I think you mean me, nah I've emailed him twice and rang his office approx 10times without a call back.

    Bad form from Alan Shatter. I thought he was different. Did you?


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    #46
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Wide Road wrote: »
    Bad form from Alan Shatter. I thought he was different. Did you?

    cheap


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    #47
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    Laminations wrote: »
    cheap

    No, I would never call Alan cheap. He's better than that. Isn't he?


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    #48
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    It's probably anecdotally correct to assume that it's a bit more conservative, but it by no means has a monopoly on it, and most people who assume that it's vastly more conservative have no first-hand knowledge.

    Is an 80 year old in Dublin City more conservative than an 80 year old in Kerry ?

    It's simply not a "given".



    Because people seem to think that FF have a rural vote base, and I find it astonishing that u-turns and the more (supposedly) liberal views and policies that FF have, and their u-turns, don't seem to impact on that; so it's strange that you assume that similar policies or u-turns within Labour would have such a negative impact.

    ok so, in your opinion which do you perceive to be more conservative, urban or rural ireland?


    FF have been popular in rural areas (dont know how you could dispute this), many people - and you have brought this up before - vote FF and indeed FG due to the way the family have always voted. FF are perceived and traditionally have been in line to a fair extent with the catholic church. have you ever heard of the phrase "once an early riser, always an early riser?"
    you get a name for something it generally sticks


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    #49
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Wide Road wrote: »
    No, I would never call Alan cheap

    thats for sure, he certainly is not cheap, if you want to save a few euro id get a consultation with someone other than gallaghershatter


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    #50
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    ok so, in your opinion which do you perceive to be more conservative, urban or rural ireland?

    I've already answered this - in the post that you quoted.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    It's probably anecdotally correct to assume that it's a bit more conservative, but it by no means has a monopoly on it


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    #51
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I've already answered this - in the post that you quoted.

    so you agree then, what was the point in all these posts...


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    #52
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    so you agree then, what was the point in all these posts...

    1) As I said, rural people can be progressive and urban people conservative
    2) A lack of conservative views doesn't seem to affect other parties' rural votes


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    #53
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    1) As I said, rural people can be progressive and urban people conservative
    but you agree that rural ireland is more conservative than urban....
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    2) A lack of conservative views doesn't seem to affect other parties' rural votes

    as i said, reputations and perceptions aren't easily gotten rid of.


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    #54
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    aDeener wrote: »
    but you agree that rural ireland is more conservative than urban....

    Anecdotally only; I don't have figures.

    Most people I know who are rural are not necessarily more conservative than the urban people I know.

    But I'm wary of anecdotal and personal-experience evidence, because I've been challenged on here for saying that I know no-one who would dream of voting FF or support NAMA or the Anglo bailout, because extrapolating that to a wider sample is too much to hope for.
    aDeener wrote: »
    reputations and perceptions aren't easily gotten rid of.

    They also don't - unfortunately - affect voting patterns.


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