Dublin and Abramovich

willietherock · 19-08-2014 7:07pm #1

Interesting comment in the Indo highlighting the difference in funding between Dublin and Cork
According to 2013 Central Council figures, Cork received a coaching and games development grant of €95,737 compared to Dublin's €1,509,631, almost €1m of which comes from a special Irish Sports Council funding arrangement for the capital agreed during the 2000s when Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/cork-chiefs-want-barrymurphy-to-remain-in-place-as-boss-30517658.html#sthash.X5QD7I4l.dpuf

So Dublin gets 15 times the funding Cork does for the promotion of gaelic games.Even excluding the money from the Irish Sports Council, Dublin gets five times the amount of funding directly from Croke Park that Cork does. Given Cork are the biggest GAA county in terms of clubs its likely that their funding is greater than most meaning it’s probably worse when you compare Dublin to other counties.
This is clearly unfair and gives Dublin a massive competitive advantage over the other counties. Surely it’s time to significantly cut funding to Dublin and spread the money around more evenly?

ColeTrain · 19-08-2014 9:01pm

Nonsense, the Dubs weren't winning anything a few years back. Their recent success is solely down to their crop of players and management. How dare you try to factor in the colossus funding that they receive. Also, to think that some people then have the cheek to bring up tiny, trivial factors like population and continued home advantage. It makes me mad I tell yas...

Nidgeweasel · 19-08-2014 10:30pm

I appreciate there is a clear disparity here but you have feel this is only rearing it's head from certain quarters because they are winning.

Jim has mentioned financials but I think what he was getting at aswell was a more general point that the premier league was coasting along and then Abrammovich landed and pushed the game on. Similarly for the past few years there hasn't really been one team cut and dry above the rest for a prolonged period. The Dubs have well and truly landed now and it's most certainly Dublin out on their own and then the chasing pack.

It's up for everyone else to try come up to a par with them now.

You might say it's stacked against everyone else but was it ever really anything different? Does anyone have an idea to see how funding percentages differed down through the years? It's probably the same few counties who got the big lifts. But that's just a hunch could be well off with that statement.

Money doesn't equate to success either. Fermanagh could have inherited Sean quinns billions and still wouldn't have won as much as a sideline ball.

These things go in cycles and it's more than likely Dublins time to have their dynasty It's not often that happens in football really with the exception of the Kingdom during Mickos tenure. Sure they have their share of insufferable ballbags on the hill who couldn't name their local club if their lives depended on it and that might put people off and lead Dublin to be viewed negatively but you can't not admire how they play and their work rate and everything else.

I'm not that fussed about then getting big investment. Good luck to them I say , (bar Sunday two weeks when naturally I hope they get a good hiding! )

Stoner · 19-08-2014 10:44pm

In May 2014, the Government sanctioned a â‚¬30 million grant to help fund the â‚¬70 million regeneration of the stadium in Cork.
I think its great that there will be another modern stadium, but this is still a sizeable amount of money.

anyway tip beat Cork on Sunday, not Dublin.

corny · 19-08-2014 11:35pm

willietherock wrote: »

Interesting comment in the Indo highlighting the difference in funding between Dublin and Cork
According to 2013 Central Council figures, Cork received a coaching and games development grant of €95,737 compared to Dublin's €1,509,631, almost €1m of which comes from a special Irish Sports Council funding arrangement for the capital agreed during the 2000s when Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/cork-chiefs-want-barrymurphy-to-remain-in-place-as-boss-30517658.html#sthash.X5QD7I4l.dpuf

So Dublin gets 15 times the funding Cork does for the promotion of gaelic games.Even excluding the money from the Irish Sports Council, Dublin gets five times the amount of funding directly from Croke Park that Cork does. Given Cork are the biggest GAA county in terms of clubs its likely that their funding is greater than most meaning it’s probably worse when you compare Dublin to other counties.
This is clearly unfair and gives Dublin a massive competitive advantage over the other counties. Surely it’s time to significantly cut funding to Dublin and spread the money around more evenly?

Love to know the breakdown between Hurling and Football. My understanding was, certainly around the time of Bertie Ahern, there was huge money pumped into hurling in the county. The piece just says gaelic games. Anyone know the breakdown off hand?

Mountainlad · 19-08-2014 11:40pm

Yeah, Cork are historical victims of being neglected by the powers that be...

dzer2 · 20-08-2014 8:19am

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah, Cork are historical victims of being neglected by the powers that be...

Ah now everyone bows to Frankie

bucketybuck · 20-08-2014 8:32am

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

I appreciate there is a clear disparity here but you have feel this is only rearing it's head from certain quarters because they are winning.

It doesn't matter in the slightest why its rearing its head, figures like that deserve questioning.

Moneymaker · 20-08-2014 9:16am

Tombo2001 · 20-08-2014 11:52am

This will be a much bigger topic after Dublin hammer Donegal in the semi, and then beat Mayo/ Kerry by 8-10 points in the final.

Which they will.

Dublin's average winning margin this year is 14.25 points.

To put that in perspective (as if it were needed), most teams seemed to feel that Donegal had beaten Monaghan comfortably in the Ulster Final, when they won by 3 points.

Dublin are awesome, fantastic to watch. Not knocking them for a moment. But it would have been extremely easy at the start of the year to predict (i) the four semi-finalists and (ii) the winner.

ultrapercy · 20-08-2014 12:46pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This will be a much bigger topic after Dublin hammer Donegal in the semi, and then beat Mayo/ Kerry by 8-10 points in the final.

Which they will.

Dublin's average winning margin this year is 14.25 points.

To put that in perspective (as if it were needed), most teams seemed to feel that Donegal had beaten Monaghan comfortably in the Ulster Final, when they won by 3 points.

Dublin are awesome, fantastic to watch. Not knocking them for a moment. But it would have been extremely easy at the start of the year to predict (i) the four semi-finalists and (ii) the winner.

Agreed. Dublin,to an extent, have rescued football from the mire of negativity introduced by certain managers who feel they cannot compete on an equal basis with other counties. Indeed this current Dublin team are to be admired for the way they conduct themselves as much as the manner they play the game. All that is a completely different matter to the argument that money in sport equals success, which it mos definitely does. Dublin deserve more funding than other counties based on population size but it seems hugely disproportionate t the moment. Dublin are in a unique marketing position too in GAA terms so are not as needy of funds as other counties. A fairer system suits everyone and leads to a more interesting and exciting sport but the political wheels of the GAA will be slow to turn.

Nidgeweasel · 20-08-2014 1:12pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This will be a much bigger topic after Dublin hammer Donegal in the semi, and then beat Mayo/ Kerry by 8-10 points in the final.

Which they will.

Dublin's average winning margin this year is 14.25 points.

To put that in perspective (as if it were needed), most teams seemed to feel that Donegal had beaten Monaghan comfortably in the Ulster Final, when they won by 3 points.

Dublin are awesome, fantastic to watch. Not knocking them for a moment. But it would have been extremely easy at the start of the year to predict (i) the four semi-finalists and (ii) the winner.

Donegal conceded a goal which took the gloss off their result somewhat. It reminded me of the Cork semi final. Totally on control- winning margin should have been 6 or 7 but won by 2.

Tombo2001 · 20-08-2014 1:15pm

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Donegal conceded a goal which took the gloss off their result somewhat. It reminded me of the Cork semi final. Totally on control- winning margin should have been 6 or 7 but won by 2.

Monaghan were a point down with 15 minutes left, and 3 points down or 1 score down at the final whistle.

No way you can describe that as total control.

But anyway, your point just reaffirms my point. You are describing a 3 point win as Donegal being in 'total control'. Dublin in the meantime have won their four games by 14 points on average.

irelandrover · 20-08-2014 1:28pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

Agreed. Dublin,to an extent, have rescued football from the mire of negativity introduced by certain managers who feel they cannot compete on an equal basis with other counties. Indeed this current Dublin team are to be admired for the way they conduct themselves as much as the manner they play the game. All that is a completely different matter to the argument that money in sport equals success, which it mos definitely does. Dublin deserve more funding than other counties based on population size but it seems hugely disproportionate t the moment. Dublin are in a unique marketing position too in GAA terms so are not as needy of funds as other counties. A fairer system suits everyone and leads to a more interesting and exciting sport but the political wheels of the GAA will be slow to turn.

Should the funding be per population or per clubs? or registered players. IN my opinion it doesn't matter how many people live in an area if only a tiny percentage play the sport.

seamus · 20-08-2014 1:46pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Should the funding be per population or per clubs? or registered players. IN my opinion it doesn't matter how many people live in an area if only a tiny percentage play the sport.

You run a separate issue there where counties with massive numbers of clubs/registered players get proportionally more money, even if their population is actually lower.

It creates a feedback loop where the sport is given more support financially in those counties which require it the least. And counties which need more cash to improve their game, get less funding.

Division per actual population is a fairer way because counties with low participation will receive better funding, with which they can improve participation in that county.

Some kind of sponsorship pot is probably the best way to go, where sponsorship rates for each team are determined by the GAA each year (i.e. more successful teams in big counties cost more to sponsor), but any sponsorship funding all goes into a big pot which is distributed evenly across the counties according to populaton. So liberty, for example, might front up €1m to sponsor Dublin, but the county board will only see €250k of that.

Tombo2001 · 20-08-2014 1:57pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Should the funding be per population or per clubs? or registered players. IN my opinion it doesn't matter how many people live in an area if only a tiny percentage play the sport.

Thats the essence of the problem with the football championship.

Forty years ago, GAA in Dublin was largely played by country lads who had moved to Dublin.

That changed in the 1970s and 1980s.

However its only in the past ten/ fifteen years that GAA clubs have become integral to a local community in Dublin in the same way that they are in the country. This is true in both working class and middle class areas.

As such, in my view its only in the past ten/fifteen years that we've really seen Dublin fulfilling its potential in GAA; and particularly in the past 4 years.

GAA is the sport of choice for kids in Dublin in a way that its never been before.

Godge · 20-08-2014 2:27pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Should the funding be per population or per clubs? or registered players. IN my opinion it doesn't matter how many people live in an area if only a tiny percentage play the sport.

That depends on whether you want to protect the established status quos, in which case you pump funding into Cork, Tipperary and Kilkenny who have the greatest number of hurlers and into Kerry, Mayo, Cork and Meath who have the greatest number of footballers by dividing your funding by club or registered player.

However, if you are less narrowminded and want to spread the game, you will fund by population with targets for participation, growth in clubs and numbers etc. Which is the type of things Dublin have done and the participation levels at child and adult level have gone up dramatically.

Why is this done with government money? Simply, government money should be used to increase participation in sport in Ireland to reduce longer-term health costs. A side-effect of this policy is a strengthened Dublin team but if the main effect is a healthier population that is a price well worth paying.

tritium · 20-08-2014 2:39pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thats the essence of the problem with the football championship.

Forty years ago, GAA in Dublin was largely played by country lads who had moved to Dublin.

That changed in the 1970s and 1980s.

However its only in the past ten/ fifteen years that GAA clubs have become integral to a local community in Dublin in the same way that they are in the country. This is true in both working class and middle class areas.

As such, in my view its only in the past ten/fifteen years that we've really seen Dublin fulfilling its potential in GAA; and particularly in the past 4 years.

GAA is the sport of choice for kids in Dublin in a way that its never been before.

However that ignores he amount of choice kids in Dublin have as well as the reality that with that choice the likelihood that many very talented kids will be lost to the system. Most kids in Dublin have the option and often the inclination to play soccer, GAA and even rugby on an ongoing basis. There's also less regard for the school driven restriction to GAA that might have existed in Christian brothers schools in particular in the past. As much as Dublin GAA is high profile now, Leinster rugby for example can make the same or greater claim. Soccer will always be pervasive in the capital due to cross channel influence as much as anything. A number of rugby stars in recent years had good GAA credentials but chose another code.

To be honest, if I was from outside Dublin and cared about GAA I'd be more worried that the likes of rugby might get better at attracting young players and building local structures. Thats the thing that Dublin have really managed to deal with relatively well, as seen by the most recent underage crop.

jmayo · 20-08-2014 3:09pm

willietherock wrote: »

Interesting comment in the Indo highlighting the difference in funding between Dublin and Cork
According to 2013 Central Council figures, Cork received a coaching and games development grant of €95,737 compared to Dublin's €1,509,631, almost €1m of which comes from a special Irish Sports Council funding arrangement for the capital agreed during the 2000s when Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/cork-chiefs-want-barrymurphy-to-remain-in-place-as-boss-30517658.html#sthash.X5QD7I4l.dpuf

So Dublin gets 15 times the funding Cork does for the promotion of gaelic games.Even excluding the money from the Irish Sports Council, Dublin gets five times the amount of funding directly from Croke Park that Cork does.

Ahh good ould bertie and his funding.

Godge wrote: »

That depends on whether you want to protect the established status quos, in which case you pump funding into Cork, Tipperary and Kilkenny who have the greatest number of hurlers and into Kerry, Mayo, Cork and Meath who have the greatest number of footballers by dividing your funding by club or registered player.

However, if you are less narrowminded and want to spread the game, you will fund by population with targets for participation, growth in clubs and numbers etc. Which is the type of things Dublin have done and the participation levels at child and adult level have gone up dramatically.

Well using your argument of funding based on population and the figures for funding given above, then then Dublin has approx. 15 times the population of Cork.

So according to 2011 census there are roughly 520,000 people in Cork.
That then must mean there are 7.8 million people roughly in Dublin.

No wonder the bleeding price of property has gone through the roof. :rolleyes:

Godge wrote: »

Why is this done with government money? Simply, government money should be used to increase participation in sport in Ireland to reduce longer-term health costs. A side-effect of this policy is a strengthened Dublin team but if the main effect is a healthier population that is a price well worth paying.

Lets pay for people to be healthier so long as those people live in Dublin of course.

Tombo2001 · 20-08-2014 3:30pm

tritium wrote: »

However that ignores he amount of choice kids in Dublin have as well as the reality that with that choice the likelihood that many very talented kids will be lost to the system. Most kids in Dublin have the option and often the inclination to play soccer, GAA and even rugby on an ongoing basis. There's also less regard for the school driven restriction to GAA that might have existed in Christian brothers schools in particular in the past. As much as Dublin GAA is high profile now, Leinster rugby for example can make the same or greater claim. Soccer will always be pervasive in the capital due to cross channel influence as much as anything. A number of rugby stars in recent years had good GAA credentials but chose another code.

To be honest, if I was from outside Dublin and cared about GAA I'd be more worried that the likes of rugby might get better at attracting young players and building local structures. Thats the thing that Dublin have really managed to deal with relatively well, as seen by the most recent underage crop.

I couldnt disagree with this more.

Firstly, if anything, Dublin kids have traditionally had a lot of choice whereas those in the country did not.

However go to a town like Letterkenny or Tullamore or wherever today and you will find a soccer club, a rugby club, running tracks/ athletics clubs, martial arts, swimming pools, squash, tennis, badminton......on a per head basis, you will find that a mid-sized Country town e.g. Carlow offers a far wider array of sports than a equivalently sized Dublin suburb e.g. Cabra.

Secondly, soccer is traditionally the game of choice for kids in Dublin. However that has changed mostly in my view for the specific reason that you cant play soccer in the street any more. Playing keepie-uppie in a postage stamp back garden only gets you so far.

Gaa clubs have far better facilities than soccer clubs in Dublin. Also, the realistic prospect of playing for Dublin at this point is far more attractive than the one in a million chance of making it in the premiership.

GAA has become relative to other sports much stronger in Dublin.

cadaliac · 20-08-2014 3:50pm

Dublin has used its money wisely. It has invested heavily in the youth system promoting Dublin GAA.

It is paying dividends now. Other counties (KK) also do this with tremendous success.
Cork don't seem to be able to do this and it shows imo.

Fair play to the Dubs, I say. As a previous poster mentioned, they have changed football for the better. The art of "kicking" the ball is back. Time for everyone elce to catch up.

bucketybuck · 20-08-2014 7:50pm

cadaliac wrote: »

Dublin has used its money wisely. It has invested heavily in the youth system promoting Dublin GAA.

Easy to do when you are getting over 15 times more than any other county.

Nidgeweasel · 20-08-2014 7:58pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

GAA is the sport of choice for kids in Dublin in a way that its never been before.

Which is great.

And sure isn't this what it's all about really. Getting people involved and invested in the sport from a young age. Not sure how it works in the city but if the community benefits are the same as the country Dublin will be a better place for it.

harpsman · 20-08-2014 9:39pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

Indeed this current Dublin team are to be admired for the way they conduct themselves as much as the manner they play the game. All that is a completely different

Personally I dont think a team that repeatedly their opponents and are backed by their management are to be admired for the way they conduct themselves.

They play a pretty dynamic brand of football alright, I actually prefered some of the Kerry teams of the last 15 years in terms of style myself.

Godge · 23-08-2014 2:32pm

jmayo wrote: »

Well using your argument of funding based on population and the figures for funding given above, then then Dublin has approx. 15 times the population of Cork.

So according to 2011 census there are roughly 520,000 people in Cork.
That then must mean there are 7.8 million people roughly in Dublin.

No wonder the bleeding price of property has gone through the roof. :rolleyes:

Lets pay for people to be healthier so long as those people live in Dublin of course.

2 points,

(1) You need to separate out the money from the GAA and the money from the government
(2) If you are in receipt of government money or looking for it, you generally need to provide evidence and a plan of why you want it.

ultrapercy · 23-08-2014 4:02pm

harpsman wrote: »

Personally I dont think a team that repeatedly their opponents and are backed by their management are to be admired for the way they conduct themselves.

They play a pretty dynamic brand of football alright, I actually prefered some of the Kerry teams of the last 15 years in terms of style myself.

You left out a word in the first part of your post.What do Dublin players do repeatedly that you find objectionable? The part about Kerry is an opinion your entitled to although I think this Dublin team have pushed overall standards to new levels.

ixus · 23-08-2014 7:10pm

When Kilkenny were going for five in a row there were calls to split the county up.

The football team has only just been better than Mayo and Kerryn in tight matches. Take a once in a generation player like Cluxton, a guy who changed how the game is played, out of that team and they are more vulnerable.

Dublin GAA has certainly stolen a march in terms of strength and condioning especially with their relationship with NADA. Their underage county teams are benefiting from this but really, they're only catching up with schools rugby and still a long way off what various sports globally do at underage. This S&C gives them the explosive pace and power to play the way they do. You also have someone like Brian Cullen who works with Leinster and can bring that knowledge to them.

Structurally, in hurling, Dublin set up the Dublin schools team to compete I Leinster schools against St.Kierans etc back in 97-99. That's how long it has taken hurling to get to the top level.

There's nothing special about their school football teams. Two Kildare teams, Maynooth and Salesians of Celbridge have been the most competitive there for years. Maynooth were contesting Dublin A finals back in 97/98 when Cluxton was in goals for St . David's Artane.

Funding should be allocated proportionally but I don't think it's a case of just handing over the cash. You have to have the right vision and structures in place. In reality, it should probably be centrally managed.

Flukey · 23-08-2014 9:49pm

No matter how much funding they get, Dublin can only have 15 men on the pitch at any one time. Money doesn't buy you quality. Players are not being bought in. We don't have that system, like other sports have. Most players in most counties come from that county and very rarely move to other counties. A really skilled player can come from any of the 32 counties. Money can't buy that. Other counties have managed to get great teams. It is down to hard work, training, skills not cash. Can cash help? Of course it can. You can invest a million euro in a donkey, but it won't win the Grand National. A player has to have the underlying skills, and that has nothing to do with money or geography.

Dublin always seem to be blamed for their success, whereas other counties, no matter how dominant they become, are given credit for their quality of players and their work. As has been often said, there have never been calls to split Kerry or Kilkenny. Both of those counties won 4 in a row in modern times. Four All-Irelands in four years and the plaudits are out. Dublin win 3 All-Irelands in 30 years and the knives are out. You can scream about funding or try to perpetuate lies like Dublin always getting home games and throw all sorts of other spurious stuff at Dublin. The fact of the matter is Dublin are a good team now. There is no crime in that. Deal with it.

eigrod · 23-08-2014 9:57pm

Whatever the hows or whys as how it has come to this, fact is now that the Leinster Football Championship is a dead duck. The largest province with 12 Counties now has 11 Counties planning for the qualifiers from the outset rather than the straight route to AI QFs. Interestingly, none of the 11 reached the AI QFs.

Dublin now have won 9 of the last 10 Leinsters and that dominance isn't coming to an end any time soon.

Were Dublin to have 2 teams in the Leinster Championship, they would both get to the final were they seeded.

Flukey · 23-08-2014 10:21pm

If 11 counties are planning for the qualifiers, then that is their problem. 11 counties should be planning to topple Dublin. Even if they plan for the qualifiers, at some point or another they are going to come across Dublin or another one of the big teams. So they have to plan to up their standards whatever they do. So let them plan to beat Dublin. No other Leinster county reached the quarter finals, but remember that every county Dublin beat in the Leinster Championship had another chance, so Dublin cannot be blamed for that.

Dublin have planned to beat the other 31 counties. Each of those other 31 counties should be doing the same. Once they start doing that and stop their whinging and moaning about Dublin, they'll make progress. Dublin are not unbeatable. There are a lot of things that can be done to beat Dublin. Whinging and moaning are not amongst those things.

kippy · 23-08-2014 10:30pm

It's pretty crazy that success in an "amateur" sport is linked so closely to the amount of money spent.

ArielAtom · 23-08-2014 10:34pm

My god you can almost taste the bitterness and jealousy. What will next weeks thread be??? Dublin have at present a good crop of footballers, if it was all down to money the hurlers would be cleaning up, but they're not.

eigrod · 23-08-2014 10:36pm

Flukey - I think you're missing the point here. I'm certainly not begrudging Dublin any success - they're the best around in Gaelic Football and likely to be for some time and have made massive strides in hurling also, which is what everyone wanted to see.

However, their success in Gaelic Football, particularly their runaway success in Leinster, is creating a massive problem for the game. Hurling's most serious problem has been a severe lack of competitive Counties over the years with only about 8 Counties in with a 'chance' of AI success. Football is now getting like that, particularly in Leinster.

Bringing Dublin down a peg or two isn't the solution - bringing other Counties up a level or two is the solution. However, they cannot do that without massive investment from Croke Park or other sources - and it will take many years, just like it did in Dublin.

ixus · 23-08-2014 10:50pm

Flukey wrote: »

...... As has been often said, there have never been calls to split Kerry and Kilkenny.....

That's all the media talked about when Kilkenny were getting the four in a row and going for five.

Flukey · 23-08-2014 11:04pm

I agree with you Eigrod, it is up to the other counties to up their standards, but it is not all down to money to do that. Everyone wants Dublin to do well at Hurling you say (though that would probably change if we won the All-Ireland), but with all the funding that has gone in to Dublin, it is still 76 years since Dublin won an All-Ireland. That's longer than Mayo's football drought, and we're not even cursed!

We have yet another Kilkenny v Tipperary All-Ireland final coming up. Those two counties have got there by their sheer talent. Dublin's dominance in Leinster football gets far more attention than Kilkenny's equivalent in Leinster Hurling. There is nowhere near the amount of abuse thrown at Kilkenny for their success. Kerry don't get it in Munster. Mayo's four in a row in Connacht hasn't got people shouting abuse at them. Donegal's recent success in Ulster is immune too. Dublin though, are treated differently.

It isn't the funding that has made Dublin the success that they are, and dominance by other counties in their spheres prove that. Dublin have good footballers, just like Kilkenny have good hurlers. If Dublin didn't have good footballers, all the money in the world wouldn't change that. Dublin can afford good training for their good players, but those players being good happens before one cent is invested in them. You cannot buy natural talent and ability.

The_Honeybadger · 23-08-2014 11:08pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

You left out a word in the first part of your post.What do Dublin players do repeatedly that you find objectionable? The part about Kerry is an opinion your entitled to although I think this Dublin team have pushed overall standards to new levels.

I think they have certainly raised the bar in terms of physical preparation. They are probably the fittest and best prepared outfit to have ever played the game. They have yet to prove that they are better than the great Kerry teams of the past who had simply awesome natural footballers. They have plenty of time to prove otherwise however given the age profile of the squad.

They are also made look better IMO by the fact that the other traditionally strong counties like cork, Tyrone, Kerry etc are in a transitional phase and nowhere near the levels they have been at in the past. Dublin are by far the strongest team in the country at the moment with no real competition, I know they only won the last two finals by a point but I would expect that margin to grow considerably this year. Would love to see the dubs up against the Kerry or Tyrone sides of the noughties. Fitness aside, I wouldn't think there would be much in it to be honest.

eigrod · 23-08-2014 11:15pm

I think some of your points are rather naieve there Flukey. Of course money helps. If Dublin have 50 full time GDA's and say for example, Wicklow or Kildare have 4 full time GDAs, then of course you have a much much better chance of developing the naturally talented kids. And this is without going into the pool of children available for population reasons (something obviously not Dublin's fault). Proper coaching and games administration goes an awful long way to producing the talented Senior footballer or hurler.

Again, I don't think its a case of begrudgery against Dublin - absolutely not, in my case certainly. It's a case of being fearful of what is happening to the Senior Football Championship. If it becomes dominated by one County, then people will lose interest.

There is also another problem, in my opinion. Some seriously talented Dublin Footballers will never play Inter County Championship Football, yet they'd walk on to any other County team. Most of their minors and U21s from recent years won't get a look in - unfortunately.

Flukey · 24-08-2014 12:08am

I did say the money helps Eigrod, but the point is the talent has to be there in the first place. Yes, Dublin have more coaches to get that talent worked upon, but the talent itself is there before that. No matter what the amount of coaches you have, the cream will rise to the top. It does so in all counties, so every county puts out their best players. There is no reason though, that the best players in one county should be any better than those in another. If you took the single best player in each county, there would not be a great deal of difference between those 32 men. We may have a bigger pool, but that doesn't mean that the best players in Dublin should have an actual higher level of ability than other counties. There have been times when the best of our much larger pool were not as good as the best of other smaller pools. That is still the case with our hurlers.

We can still only put 15 on the pitch, whether there is a million people in the county, or about 30,000 like the likes of Leitrim. That links into your second point. Yes, there are great players that will never make it, but that could be said for a large amount of counties. We can all only put 15 on the pitch and have a panel of 30 or 40, so even the weakest counties have good guys that won't make it, albeit a smaller amount of them. This is where the great split Dublin thing would actually make things worse. Splitting us would make us twice as formidable, not half as formidable.

Maybe it is unfortunate that great players don't make county teams, but there is a limit to the amount of players that can be on any county panel. The "there is great players that will never get on the county team that would walk onto any other county team" line is always put out as if there was no other outlet for them. Those guys can and do play for their clubs and there is of course the All-Ireland club championships. Guys might love to play for their county, but ask most inter-county All-Ireland medal holders what their best day ever was, and they'll usually talk about a club success.

Some great players may never play for their county, but they are delighted to get on their club team and that usually means more to them. They are not being lost to the game and indeed many clubs are annoyed about their stars being called up to county duty. They may have the skill to walk onto any other county team, but the managers of those clubs are delighted that they can play for only one county and glad that there is someone better than them so that they can retain their services for their club. Even the ones that do make inter-county level, love getting back to their clubs. Many people say its terrible that these players can't make the county team, but some of those players themselves wouldn't be so upset. They are glad to be able to play for their club first and foremost and be able to commit 100% to that. It is far less pressure for them and many are glad of that.

The_Honeybadger · 24-08-2014 1:55am

@flukey it is true to say you can only put 15 out on any given day. The question is whether the fact that that 15 has had effectively professional level coaching from a young age and the opposition has not gives the former a competitive advantage.

The emergence of Dublin as a power in Gaelic football is a very positive thing and should be celebrated. The focus now must be on bringing other counties up to that level rather than dismantling what Dublin have built. The model has been so successful that it should / must be implemented in other counties to ensure we have a competitive championship. As their success continues the GAA will come under immense pressure to look at the allocation of development finding and will eventually be forced to reduce Dublins share (the ISC grant will also finish). Dublin will always get a much bigger allocation than anybody else however, and rightly so, and can look forward to at least a couple of years of dominance in any case, no matter what happens from here. Overall it's good to see Dublin winning AI titles, they have been a sleeping giant in the past and the championship is a better competition with a strong Dublin side. Time for other counties to catch up now.

Tobyglen · 24-08-2014 2:09am

Huge disparity between Dublin & rest of country. It's only going to get worse with Dublin having huge resources pumped into academies and have clubs now with budgets that are bigger than some counties. This is the first year of their dominance and the gulf will get larger in the next few years. It's time the GAA started giving lesser counties some money & give the games a chance to grow because it will die on it's arse at this rate much sooner than people think.

kippy · 24-08-2014 6:47am

Flukey wrote: »

I agree with you Eigrod, it is up to the other counties to up their standards, but it is not all down to money to do that. Everyone wants Dublin to do well at Hurling you say (though that would probably change if we won the All-Ireland), but with all the funding that has gone in to Dublin, it is still 76 years since Dublin won an All-Ireland. That's longer than Mayo's football drought, and we're not even cursed! We have yet another Kilkenny v Tipperary All-Ireland final coming up. Those two counties have got there by their sheer talent. Dublin's dominance in Leinster football gets far more attention than Kilkenny's equivalent in Leinster Hurling. There is nowhere near the amount of abuse thrown at Kilkenny for their success. Kerry don't get it in Munster. Mayo's four in a row in Connacht hasn't got people shouting abuse at them. Donegal's recent success in Ulster is immune too. Dublin though, are treated differently.

It isn't the funding that has made Dublin the success that they are, and dominance by other counties in their spheres prove that. Dublin have good footballers, just like Kilkenny have good hurlers. If Dublin didn't have good footballers, all the money in the world wouldn't change that. Dublin can afford good training for their good players, but those players being good happens before one cent is invested in them. You cannot buy natural talent and ability.

I dont buy that at all to be honest.
You reckon natural talent and ability are in a person when they are born?

Money being thrown at it, success and numbers playing will evenrually bring on a county.

ultrapercy · 24-08-2014 9:34am

mickeyk wrote: »

I think they have certainly raised the bar in terms of physical preparation. They are probably the fittest and best prepared outfit to have ever played the game. They have yet to prove that they are better than the great Kerry teams of the past who had simply awesome natural footballers. They have plenty of time to prove otherwise however given the age profile of the squad.

They are also made look better IMO by the fact that the other traditionally strong counties like cork, Tyrone, Kerry etc are in a transitional phase and nowhere near the levels they have been at in the past. Dublin are by far the strongest team in the country at the moment with no real competition, I know they only won the last two finals by a point but I would expect that margin to grow considerably this year. Would love to see the dubs up against the Kerry or Tyrone sides of the noughties. Fitness aside, I wouldn't think there would be much in it to be honest.

I take your point re "natural" footballers but the game has changed. It is impossible to compare eras(but it is fun) I think those teams of the past, even recent past, wouldnt cope physically with the top teams of this era.It can be argued that those past teams would raise their preparations to match the game that is played these days, we will have to wait for the time machine.

howiya · 24-08-2014 10:39am

seamus wrote: »

Some kind of sponsorship pot is probably the best way to go, where sponsorship rates for each team are determined by the GAA each year (i.e. more successful teams in big counties cost more to sponsor), but any sponsorship funding all goes into a big pot which is distributed evenly across the counties according to populaton. So liberty, for example, might front up €1m to sponsor Dublin, but the county board will only see €250k of that.

What planet are you on? The county board wouldn't put the same amount of effort into obtaining large sponsorship deals if they weren't going to see the fruits of their labour. Nor would a company pony up a larger amount than required.

The only way your suggestion would work is if negotiations for sponsorship were handled by the GAA and not individual county boards

Miall108 · 24-08-2014 3:17pm

Its an absolute disgrace the amount of money being thrown into Dublin GAA and is definately on par with an Abramovic or the SHeikhs of Man City or PSG.....Fair enough pump some money into hurling Dublin were weak enough for years so to get them competitive is not a bad thing but football is a disgrace, Dublin were always a superpower in football without money and its not fair that their now miles ahead of other counties now which is out of the other county boards control really. Throwing money at nothing, if it aint broke dont fix it. Funding should definately be cut for Dublin and pumped into something worth while. As an idea, Why not pump the money into something worthwhile like Offaly GAA a former superpower in both codes who are desperately in need of it and more than the 1 milliion a year they are due to get or else pump it into the weaker counties in hurling.

mickmackey1 · 24-08-2014 6:47pm

kippy wrote: »

You reckon natural talent and ability are in a person when they are born?

Definitely, if you or I practised our football 24 hours a day, we still wouldn't play like Gooch.

It needs a lot of hard work (and funds) to maximise 'natural' ability though.

Dublin and Abramovich

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