AI Final 07/09/14. Tipp v Kilkenny

rebel girl 15 · 26-08-2014 4:44pm

Keep it on topic and stop the trolling - next one is on for a ban until the end of the championship

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 5:13pm

I said it before the Tipp/Cork game and I was proven right. It still applies, Tipp will wipe the floor with KK if they play to their full potential. That's the only issue as far as I'm concerned.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 5:39pm

Rightwing wrote: »

I said it before the Tipp/Cork game and I was proven right. It still applies, Tipp will wipe the floor with KK if they play to their full potential. That's the only issue as far as I'm concerned.

Wonder what happened to Tipp against Limerick. Wipe the floor with them, did they. Different teams, different styles, different managers, different players, different days, different weather, different injuries, different attitudes, different histories, different luck even.
I love this if they play to their full potential. If they were playing a club team maybe, or an under 21 team maybe, but at this level the object is to prevent the opposition from playing to their full potential and Kilkenny are masters of that and far more so in recent times than Tipp. 2010 was a loss to Kilkenny due to Brian Hogan's injury and Henry Shefflins. This Tipp team have never beaten a full strength Kilkenny team since Cody took over. You might not like it, but it is a fact. That is not belittling Tipp rather it is stating a truth about Kilkenny and Brian Cody. Just as from 1970 to 76 the second best team in Ireland were Wexford who had the misfortune to come up against the second best Kilkenny team of all time and but for that Wexford would have taken two or three All Irelands in that period, same as Tipp would if Kilkenny had not stood in their way over the past 14 years.

Mountainlad · 26-08-2014 6:11pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Wonder what happened to Tipp against Limerick. Wipe the floor with them, did they. Different teams, different styles, different managers, different players, different days, different weather, different injuries, different attitudes, different histories, different luck even.
I love this if they play to their full potential. If they were playing a club team maybe, or an under 21 team maybe, but at this level the object is to prevent the opposition from playing to their full potential and Kilkenny are masters of that and far more so in recent times than Tipp. 2010 was a loss to Kilkenny due to Brian Hogan's injury and Henry Shefflins. This Tipp team have never beaten a full strength Kilkenny team since Cody took over. You might not like it, but it is a fact. That is not belittling Tipp rather it is stating a truth about Kilkenny and Brian Cody. Just as from 1970 to 76 the second best team in Ireland were Wexford who had the misfortune to come up against the second best Kilkenny team of all time and but for that Wexford would have taken two or three All Irelands in that period, same as Tipp would if Kilkenny had not stood in their way over the past 14 years.

But they did their best not to start Hogan, and Shefflin won't start in the final this year, so you're predicting a Tipp win?

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 6:41pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

But they did their best not to start Hogan, and Shefflin won't start in the final this year, so you're predicting a Tipp win?

Number one, you do not know if Henry Shefflin will or will not start. Number two Brian Hogan is not injured this year nor is Henry at present according to Brian Cody. You can guess all you like why Brian Cody did not pick Brian Hogan earlier or why he has kept Henry on the bench for the last few games. You don't know, it is as simple as that and to infer you do is bordering on wishful thinking. You, no more than I know the full reason. What you do know is with the exception of Michael Rice, Kilkenny will pick from a full panel and a fully fit panel unlike 2010 when Kilkenny had to contend with injuries to Henry, Brian and John Tennyson. That is fact and to believe it did not impact on the game is a form of burying your head in the sand.

Grats · 26-08-2014 6:48pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Number one, you do not know if Henry Shefflin will or will not start. Number two Brian Hogan is not injured this year nor is Henry at present according to Brian Cody. You can guess all you like why Brian Cody did not pick Brian Hogan earlier or why he has kept Henry on the bench for the last few games. You don't know, it is as simple as that and to infer you do is bordering on wishful thinking. You, no more than I know the full reason. What you do know is with the exception of Michael Rice, Kilkenny will pick from a full panel and a fully fit panel unlike 2010 when Kilkenny had to contend with injuries to Henry, Brian and John Tennyson. That is fact and to believe it did not impact on the game is a form of burying your head in the sand.

Very correct. I might add that Brian Cody asked Brian Hogan to stay on this year. Had we unearthed a replacement, Hogan might very well be a sub now. But as Cody promised before the League he would have a strong fit panel this year. It is no shame to be a sub on this current panel as most got/will get game time.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 7:07pm

Glad to read the Bonner is fit and rearing to go. No one likes to see a any player miss a final due to injury but specially one as whole hearted as the Bonner. He's presence makes it that bit harder to beat Tipp but that is the way you want it.

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 7:08pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Wonder what happened to Tipp against Limerick. Wipe the floor with them, did they. Different teams, different styles, different managers, different players, different days, different weather, different injuries, different attitudes, different histories, different luck even.
I love this if they play to their full potential. If they were playing a club team maybe, or an under 21 team maybe, but at this level the object is to prevent the opposition from playing to their full potential and Kilkenny are masters of that and far more so in recent times than Tipp. 2010 was a loss to Kilkenny due to Brian Hogan's injury and Henry Shefflins. This Tipp team have never beaten a full strength Kilkenny team since Cody took over. You might not like it, but it is a fact. That is not belittling Tipp rather it is stating a truth about Kilkenny and Brian Cody. Just as from 1970 to 76 the second best team in Ireland were Wexford who had the misfortune to come up against the second best Kilkenny team of all time and but for that Wexford would have taken two or three All Irelands in that period, same as Tipp would if Kilkenny had not stood in their way over the past 14 years.

So many inaccuracies in the rubbish I don't even know where to start. :rolleyes:

Were KK starting with 14 men or am I missing something ?

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 7:11pm

Rightwing wrote: »

So many inaccuracies in the rubbish I don't even know where to start. :rolleyes:

Were KK starting with 14 men or am I missing something ?

Yep, a bit of common sense .:)

Grats · 26-08-2014 7:13pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Yep, a bit of common sense .:)

Beat me to it!

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 7:13pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Yep, a bit of common sense .:)

Time will tell on that one.

Mountainlad · 26-08-2014 7:14pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Number one, you do not know if Henry Shefflin will or will not start. Number two Brian Hogan is not injured this year nor is Henry at present according to Brian Cody. You can guess all you like why Brian Cody did not pick Brian Hogan earlier or why he has kept Henry on the bench for the last few games. You don't know, it is as simple as that and to infer you do is bordering on wishful thinking. You, no more than I know the full reason. What you do know is with the exception of Michael Rice, Kilkenny will pick from a full panel and a fully fit panel unlike 2010 when Kilkenny had to contend with injuries to Henry, Brian and John Tennyson. That is fact and to believe it did not impact on the game is a form of burying your head in the sand.

Henry Shefflin will not start, if he does it would be a mistake.

When Shefflin has played against since 2009 in the Championship he hasn't really had a telling impact bar 2011 when he was brilliant, but did mark John O'Keeffe for about 25 minutes. Sure, there was one handpass in 2012, and a goal from a dodgy penalty in 2009 but in fairness that's hardly as significant as it should be.

Hogan on 2009/2010 form, even 2011 form would be a big loss/big addition being available. But he's not in that form at the minute. Couple in those 2 with Eddie Brennan, whose performance had a telling impact on that game. That's a big loss in 3 years.

The thing is you would probably tell me they've been well replaced. But they haven't really been. They've had to revert to Hogan because Canning destroyed Tyrell. He was clearly worried about pace and obviously reckoned that Tyrell would be a better man in there against a team like Clare but doesn't look to be the case. I would be very concerned about Brian Hogan if I were you, but then you would rather just fawn over his medals.

Henry is beyond it. You seem to think that getting injured every few months is a sign that if he had a clear run at it he'd be as good as he was in his prime.

Those injuries aren't helping. The reality is that last year he was brought on against Waterford at half time, and was taken off again at full time having hardly seen it. He didn't score in 32 minutes against Cork before being taken off.

He was marked out of it in the league final this year. He has played how many minutes this year? And you think he will start in the all ireland final?

The thing is that much like Waterford, some of the big players from Kilkenny are getting on. We denied it for as long as we could, as at a point under Fitzgerald performances flat lined but ultimately Dan was never the same player after 2007, Ken after he got injured in 2008, Eoin Kelly around then too.

It's a testament to how good Kilkenny were then that they are still a good team now capable of winning the all-ireland, but you can't deny that there is some difference even from 2011 when Shefflin, Tommy Walsh, Eddie Brennan and Brian Hogan all had great games.

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 7:18pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Henry Shefflin will not start, if he does it would be a mistake.

When Shefflin has played against since 2009 in the Championship he hasn't really had a telling impact bar 2011 when he was brilliant, but did mark John O'Keeffe for about 25 minutes. Sure, there was one handpass in 2012, and a goal from a dodgy penalty in 2009 but in fairness that's hardly as significant as it should be.

Hogan on 2009/2010 form, even 2011 form would be a big loss/big addition being available. But he's not in that form at the minute. Couple in those 2 with Eddie Brennan, whose performance had a telling impact on that game. That's a big loss in 3 years.

The thing is you would probably tell me they've been well replaced. But they haven't really been. They've had to revert to Hogan because Canning destroyed Tyrell. He was clearly worried about pace and obviously reckoned that Tyrell would be a better man in there against a team like Clare but doesn't look to be the case. I would be very concerned about Brian Hogan if I were you, but then you would rather just fawn over his medals.

Henry is beyond it. You seem to think that getting injured every few months is a sign that if he had a clear run at it he'd be as good as he was in his prime.

Those injuries aren't helping. The reality is that last year he was brought on against Waterford at half time, and was taken off again at full time having hardly seen it. He didn't score in 32 minutes against Cork before being taken off.

He was marked out of it in the league final this year. He has played how many minutes this year? And you think he will start in the all ireland final?

The thing is that much like Waterford, some of the big players from Kilkenny are getting on. We denied it for as long as we could, as at a point under Fitzgerald performances flat lined but ultimately Dan was never the same player after 2007, Ken after he got injured in 2008, Eoin Kelly around then too.

It's a testament to how good Kilkenny were then that they are still a good team now capable of winning the all-ireland, but you can't deny that there is some difference even from 2011 when Shefflin, Tommy Walsh, Eddie Brennan and Brian Hogan all had great games.

Have to concur. Shefflin won't be near the starting 15. Cody will be hoping he can bring him in with a few minutes to go, but even that would be hugely risky. KK have racked up huge scores, but I couldn't believe how limited they were up front v Limk, nearly fell off my seat with laughter when I shefflin trotting on.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 7:22pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Have to concur. Shefflin won't be near the starting 15. Cody will be hoping he can bring him in with a few minutes to go, but even that would be hugely risky. KK have racked up huge scores, but I couldn't believe how limited they were up front v Limk, nearly fell off my seat with laughter when I shefflin trotting on.

I don't know what county you are from but you must have a terrible hump on your back carrying around that massive anti Kilkenny chip.

Skyrim · 26-08-2014 7:22pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Wonder what happened to Tipp against Limerick. Wipe the floor with them, did they. Different teams, different styles, different managers, different players, different days, different weather, different injuries, different attitudes, different histories, different luck even.
I love this if they play to their full potential. If they were playing a club team maybe, or an under 21 team maybe, but at this level the object is to prevent the opposition from playing to their full potential and Kilkenny are masters of that and far more so in recent times than Tipp. 2010 was a loss to Kilkenny due to Brian Hogan's injury and Henry Shefflins. This Tipp team have never beaten a full strength Kilkenny team since Cody took over. You might not like it, but it is a fact. That is not belittling Tipp rather it is stating a truth about Kilkenny and Brian Cody. Just as from 1970 to 76 the second best team in Ireland were Wexford who had the misfortune to come up against the second best Kilkenny team of all time and but for that Wexford would have taken two or three All Irelands in that period, same as Tipp would if Kilkenny had not stood in their way over the past 14 years.

Is 2011 a loss to Tipp due to Brendan Maher's injury?

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 7:38pm

2012 prior to another Tipp/ Kilkenny game,

The Munster champions have an impressive championship record over the ages against the Noresiders which shows Tipp
leading in their summer meetings by 13 wins to 8 in their 21 encounters to date but it’s the 4 point defeat in last
year’s All Ireland final that still haunts the blue and gold panel according to 2010 winning captain Eoin Kelly who believes if his fellow county men can play to their potential they will be a force to be reckoned with.

Read it all before Rightwing.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 7:41pm

Skyrim wrote: »

Is 2011 a loss to Tipp due to Brendan Maher's injury?

No he was there in 2012 and 2013 and they still lost. He not being there in 2011 made no difference at all.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 7:53pm

Tipp's potential is only a myth based on nothing more than wishful thinking and promoted by newspapers to sell a few extra copies and by the GAA to fill seats. if it was based on trophies won they might have a point but the Tipp trophy cabinet is as bare as old Mother Hubbard's cupboard.

Skyrim · 26-08-2014 8:12pm

savannahkat wrote: »

No he was there in 2012 and 2013 and they still lost. He not being there in 2011 made no difference at all.

I did not say anything about the following two years which is why I asked about 2011. Not having your current All Star and Young Hurler of the Year starting made no difference?

Charlie69 · 26-08-2014 8:43pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Henry Shefflin will not start, if he does it would be a mistake.

When Shefflin has played against since 2009 in the Championship he hasn't really had a telling impact bar 2011 when he was brilliant, but did mark John O'Keeffe for about 25 minutes. Sure, there was one handpass in 2012, and a goal from a dodgy penalty in 2009 but in fairness that's hardly as significant as it should be.

Hogan on 2009/2010 form, even 2011 form would be a big loss/big addition being available. But he's not in that form at the minute. Couple in those 2 with Eddie Brennan, whose performance had a telling impact on that game. That's a big loss in 3 years.

The thing is you would probably tell me they've been well replaced. But they haven't really been. They've had to revert to Hogan because Canning destroyed Tyrell. He was clearly worried about pace and obviously reckoned that Tyrell would be a better man in there against a team like Clare but doesn't look to be the case. I would be very concerned about Brian Hogan if I were you, but then you would rather just fawn over his medals.

Henry is beyond it. You seem to think that getting injured every few months is a sign that if he had a clear run at it he'd be as good as he was in his prime.

Those injuries aren't helping. The reality is that last year he was brought on against Waterford at half time, and was taken off again at full time having hardly seen it. He didn't score in 32 minutes against Cork before being taken off.

He was marked out of it in the league final this year. He has played how many minutes this year? And you think he will start in the all ireland final?

The thing is that much like Waterford, some of the big players from Kilkenny are getting on. We denied it for as long as we could, as at a point under Fitzgerald performances flat lined but ultimately Dan was never the same player after 2007, Ken after he got injured in 2008, Eoin Kelly around then too.

It's a testament to how good Kilkenny were then that they are still a good team now capable of winning the all-ireland, but you can't deny that there is some difference even from 2011 when Shefflin, Tommy Walsh, Eddie Brennan and Brian Hogan all had great games.

The same Shefflin that was Hurler of the year in 2012 ?

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 8:44pm

savannahkat wrote: »

I don't know what county you are from but you must have a terrible hump on your back carrying around that massive anti Kilkenny chip.

I'm neutral on this final, I think Tipp are better, player for player, but that doesn't mean I'm for them. Let the best team, and no excuses.

You know more about KK hurling than I do, but Cody must change the team around from the semi.

Grats · 26-08-2014 8:46pm

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm neutral on this final, I think Tipp are better, player for player, but that doesn't mean I'm for them. Let the best team, and no excuses.

You know more about KK hurling than I do, but Cody must change the team around from the semi.

Cody wouldn't know that! But I'll text him anyway!

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 8:48pm

Grats wrote: »

Cody wouldn't know that! But I'll text him anyway!

He is beginning to look spent. Will probably retire after this final.

Mountainlad · 26-08-2014 8:51pm

Charlie69 wrote: »

The same Shefflin that was Hurler of the year in 2012 ?

That'd be the same fella alright, yeah. What exactly did I say to suggest he wasn't hurler of the year in 2012? To be honest, he got that for the drawn final and 2 goals against Limerick probably wasn't his hardest one Player of the year. He wasn't even a guaranteed all star before the final like.

But my point is a bout 2013/2014 Shefflin. Currently 35 year old Shefflin. The Shefflin that won't start in the all ireland final.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 8:53pm

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm neutral on this final, I think Tipp are better, player for player, but that doesn't mean I'm for them. Let the best team, and no excuses.

You know more about KK hurling than I do, but Cody must change the team around from the semi.

You are about as neutral as the Gestapo were in the WW2.

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 8:56pm

savannahkat wrote: »

You are about as neutral as the Gestapo were in the WW2.

Nonsense. If it was Waterford I'd be very much for them.

The 2 best teams in the country are in the final. I'm from neither county, both are successful and neither are in need of a title. Now, believe that or don't.

savannahkat · 26-08-2014 8:58pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Nonsense. If it was Waterford I'd be very much for them.

The 2 best teams in the country are in the final. I'm from neither county, both are successful and neither are in need of a title. Now, believe that or don't.

I will choose the latter tis safer round you.

Grats · 26-08-2014 9:02pm

Rightwing wrote: »

He is beginning to look spent. Will probably retire after this final.

Wishful thinking?

Do you think TJ will last as long down your way?

Rightwing · 26-08-2014 9:07pm

Grats wrote: »

Wishful thinking?

Do you think TJ will last as long down your way?

There will never again be a manager as good as Cody. But Davy Fitz may last longer than Cody though as an inter county manager.

I've my doubts about him.

Charlie69 · 26-08-2014 9:17pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

That'd be the same fella alright, yeah. What exactly did I say to suggest he wasn't hurler of the year in 2012? To be honest, he got that for the drawn final and 2 goals against Limerick probably wasn't his hardest one Player of the year. He wasn't even a guaranteed all star before the final like.

But my point is a bout 2013/2014 Shefflin. Currently 35 year old Shefflin. The Shefflin that won't start in the all ireland final.

Didn't you say he hadn't made an impact in games after 2009 apart from 2011 v John O Keeffe ?
Maybe I read it wrong.

AI Final 07/09/14. Tipp v Kilkenny

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