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6 years on.....The Dark Knight.

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    #32
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I think his plan was to give the impression that he was making it up as he went but everything he did in the film was very calculated and precise.

    Possibly so, although it almost seemed like he had a death wish at times. like the scene in the hospital where Harvey had the gun to his head. Or when he was on the street and he wanted Batman to hit him. It's kind of like he didn't give a damn, yet he was still as you say, calculated and precise. Although who knows what was going on in his head.


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    #33
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    I didn't like how the last 10 minutes descended into characters standing around shouting the morality of the film at each other. :pac:


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    #34
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,163 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    e_e wrote: »
    I didn't like how the last 10 minutes descended into characters standing around shouting the morality of the film at each other. :pac:

    BUT YOU WERE THE BEST OF US!!


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    #35
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    e_e wrote: »
    I didn't like how the last 10 minutes descended into characters standing around shouting the morality of the film at each other. :pac:

    This is the post we deserve, but not the one we need right now.


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    #36
    Adamantium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭Adamantium


    Daveysil15 wrote: »
    This is the post we deserve, but not the one we need right now.

    So we'll hunt him...


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    #37
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I think his plan was to give the impression that he was making it up as he went but everything he did in the film was very calculated and precise.

    In the comics, the Joker could get away with this sh!t because he knew Batman wouldn't kill him because it's a comic book for kids. In the movie, I'm not sure how the Joker knew the Batman wouldn't just kill him from cover.


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    #38
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Couldnt understand any of the seemingly new found coolness of hating The Dark Knight, feeling a little let down by TDKR I can totally understand, but TDK was an unbelievably good film, some excellent performances in there, notably Ledger, who totally made The Joker his own, Oldman is always terrific also, I like Bale as Batman, more so in Begins then TDK but wouldnt put me off

    Considering how it turned out, and I didnt by any means hate TDKR, it may have been better to leave the story as it was at the end of TDK, leave it a two parter with un ending possibilities


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    #39
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    kryogen wrote: »
    Couldnt understand any of the seemingly new found coolness of hating The Dark Knight,
    I don't understand the online trend of misconstruing differing opinions as "coolness".


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    #40
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    I can't say I get the piling on TDKR either given that The Dark Knight has so many similar flaws, I'd rank 'em close together. Batman Begins is more consistent than both imo, with the first hour being the finest on-screen origin story to date.


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    #41
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,921 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It's not a bad film, none of the 3 were.

    But I can honestly say it's not a very memorable film, in fact I am really struggling to remember details of the plot.

    I've never rewatched it and probably won't unless it's on TV and I am bored.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #42
    thedarksh1te
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭thedarksh1te


    I think I'm more qualified than most to speak on the subject......


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    #43
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    kryogen wrote: »
    Couldnt understand any of the seemingly new found coolness of hating The Dark Knight

    I disliked it enough that I didn't see the third one at the cinema.


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    #44
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Jesus looking at that clip I'm glad I didn't bother with the last one. The first two were pretty meh for me when they came out but now they all make me cringe.


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    #45
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Liam O wrote: »
    I do want to hate it and have made some dissenting remarks to friends who naturally all jizz over it, but despite it's flaws one thing it is very watchable. I didn't see it in the cinema so that clouded any original view I had of it. I liked Begins when I seen it in the cinema before the hype train but didn't expect it to take off like it did, nothing like taking advantage of a well timed death to market your movie I guess...I also thought originally that Rises was the best but after subsequent re watches it really falters.

    Ultimately the batman portrayed in this doesn't make sense. Wayne became Batman to eliminate street level crime like what killed his parents, in this trilogy he did that for about 2 days, fought the Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul for a couple of days, the Joker for a month or 2 and then gives up for 8 years? Doesn't really make sense for his character to do that at all in any shape or form.

    This Batman is not the same as the one in the comics nor should he have to be. In this trilogy he became Batman for the simple reason of protecting Gotham and its people from falling victim to the same tragedies he did.

    The Dent Act pretty much eradicated gang crime in Gotham and made the streets safe for its inhabitants. Both Blake and Gordon alluded to this when talking about what counts for police work in the aftermath of the Dent Act i.e. tracking down well to do types who had "gone missing" after a couple of hours of not returning home.

    That's why Bruce "retired" for 8 years; he simply wasn't needed anymore. That, and the fact that he suffered major mental trauma after the death of the love of his life. Again, this isn't the comics, where Bruce has suffered constant mental trauma only to keeping going. In reality these things are going to take their toll on someone and significantly reshape their life.


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    #46
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,463 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Soft Falling Rain wrote: »
    This Batman is not the same as the one in the comics nor should he have to be. In this trilogy he became Batman for the simple reason of protecting Gotham and its people from falling victim to the same tragedies he did.

    The Dent Act pretty much eradicated gang crime in Gotham and made the streets safe for its inhabitants. Both Blake and Gordon alluded to this when talking about what counts for police work in the aftermath of the Dent Act i.e. tracking down well to do types who had "gone missing" after a couple of hours of not returning home.

    That's why Bruce "retired" for 8 years; he simply wasn't needed anymore. That, and the fact that he suffered major mental trauma after the death of the love of his life. Again, this isn't the comics, where Bruce has suffered constant mental trauma only to keeping going. In reality these things are going to take their toll on someone and significantly reshape their life.

    It's the convenience of character and plot that I find so offensive about TDKR. Love the first two, despite each having major problems and not really existing in a cohesive universe. But this idea that a man who's been so traumatised by an event as to create an alter ego can just walk away from it is inconceivable to me.

    So the dent act cleaned up gang crime. Are we to believe that this is eradicated crime completely? There's no thugs robbing people outside of the Opera anymore? Or is Bruce cool with this level of crime now.


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    #47
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    e_e wrote: »
    I don't understand the online trend of misconstruing differing opinions as "coolness".

    Me neither, I also dont like reading too much into things though


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    #48
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I disliked it enough that I didn't see the third one at the cinema.

    Now that kind of hate I can get on board with :)


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    #49
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    It's the convenience of character and plot that I find so offensive about TDKR. Love the first two, despite each having major problems and not really existing in a cohesive universe. But this idea that a man who's been so traumatised by an event as to create an alter ego can just walk away from it is inconceivable to me.

    So the dent act cleaned up gang crime. Are we to believe that this is eradicated crime completely? There's no thugs robbing people outside of the Opera anymore? Or is Bruce cool with this level of crime now.

    I would assume it made it just like any other major city, and not the massively corrupt cesspit that it was


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    #50
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    kryogen wrote: »
    Me neither, I also dont like reading too much into things though
    What do you mean by "reading too much into things"? I was kinda fawning over the film the first time I saw it but I can definitely see a lot of the criticisms, especially over the last act.


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    #51
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    It's the convenience of character and plot that I find so offensive about TDKR. Love the first two, despite each having major problems and not really existing in a cohesive universe. But this idea that a man who's been so traumatised by an event as to create an alter ego can just walk away from it is inconceivable to me.

    So the dent act cleaned up gang crime. Are we to believe that this is eradicated crime completely? There's no thugs robbing people outside of the Opera anymore? Or is Bruce cool with this level of crime now.

    Bale's Bruce was very naive though in a lot of ways. He was never in it for the long haul and stated in TDK repeatedly that he saw Dent as the man to properly lead the city, and allow him to quit and be with Rachel.

    Then he lost Rachel, and the Dent Act eradicated serious crime to at least the point where the police were capable of handling small level street crime on their own. He lost all of his motivation in one fell swoop so gave up in a lot of ways. Bare in mind it wasn't a simple case of giving up Batman, he gave up on life itself and became a hermit. This is a man who had been deeply mentally effected.


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    #52
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Oh no, another Dark Knight thread; cos the first one turned out so well :rolleyes:;)

    For me, The Dark Knight is a film that still holds much appeal, even while some of its luster has been lost over time. I'll still forgive much of its faults simply because, at its core, it and Nolans other Batman films are big splashy operas that tell their tales with deliberately broad strokes; and like any opera, The Dark Knight could be an illogical mess of coincidence and convenience, but start to finish it was nearly always compelling.

    While yes all the films in the trilogy have their respective flaws (Batman Begins had a horrible shift in tone halfway through, and I don't hate on Dark Knight Rises as much as others), I think they all have a level of energy and sheer force of personality that's almost unrivaled in mainstream cinema, certainly among blockbuster cinema. You could never accuse these films as lacking a singular vision or direction - in all senses of the word - or that the director didn't commit to said vision.

    This is my increasing problem with the Marvel franchise: the films are becoming more workaday and drab with each passing production (I have yet to see Captain America 2 mind you), and utterly lack the kind of raw spark that Nolans films had in spades. Oh sure, they have their continuity all tightened up and obnoxiously talk of Phase 1, 2 and 3 (films planned til 2028, oh dear god) but what I believe they're crying out for is at least one auteur or visionary to take a grip of the franchise. Won't happen of course.


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    #53
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    It's the convenience of character and plot that I find so offensive about TDKR. Love the first two, despite each having major problems and not really existing in a cohesive universe. But this idea that a man who's been so traumatised by an event as to create an alter ego can just walk away from it is inconceivable to me.

    So the dent act cleaned up gang crime. Are we to believe that this is eradicated crime completely? There's no thugs robbing people outside of the Opera anymore? Or is Bruce cool with this level of crime now.

    When was Bale’s Bruce ever interested in small time crime? From the beginning he always went after the big guys. On his first night as Batman when Keaton was scaring the sh*t out of drug addicts with cheap theatrics, Bale’s Batman took down Gotham’s biggest crime lord. Unlike Keaton’s Batman and arguably the Batman of the comics as well, Bale saw the bigger picture. He recognised that the Joe Chills of the world were a symptom of a larger disease. He couldn’t fight the criminals forever and was trying to make some lasting difference, a point Nolan repeatedly articulates in TDK.

    Bruce hanging up the cape and the cowl might not be consistent with the Batman of the comics, but IMO it is with the Batman of Nolan’s world.


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    #54
    Looper007
    Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭Looper007


    Still a masterpiece of Cinema, And for sure the King of Comic book films from it's nod to Michael Mann's Heat to Heath Ledgers Joker to the dark downbeat ending. Nolan's greatest achievement so far and that's saying a lot. The Dark Knight Rises has it's flaws but I still think it's a great film.

    For me Batman Begins is a great film too. I think Nolan's Batman Trilogy is the best trilogy in Cinema, many film snobs will disagree even I'm not a massive comic book fan but Nolan really succeeds in making smart, dark commercial cinema better then anyone.


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    #55
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Looper007 wrote: »
    Still a masterpiece of Cinema, And for sure the King of Comic book films from it's nod to Michael Mann's Heat to Heath Ledgers Joker to the dark downbeat ending. Nolan's greatest achievement so far and that's saying a lot. The Dark Knight Rises has it's flaws but I still think it's a great film.

    For me Batman Begins is a great film too. I think Nolan's Batman Trilogy is the best trilogy in Cinema, many film snobs will disagree even I'm not a massive comic book fan but Nolan really succeeds in making smart, dark commercial cinema better then anyone.

    Seriously, why am I a snob for disagreeing? Why are you the last word on cinema?


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    #56
    e_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    Seriously, why am I a snob for disagreeing? Why are you the last word on cinema?
    Yeah it's such a lazy ad-hominem to jump to.


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    #57
    DrWu
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭DrWu


    Looper007 wrote: »
    Still a masterpiece of Cinema, And for sure the King of Comic book films from it's nod to Michael Mann's Heat to Heath Ledgers Joker to the dark downbeat ending. Nolan's greatest achievement so far and that's saying a lot. The Dark Knight Rises has it's flaws but I still think it's a great film.

    For me Batman Begins is a great film too. I think Nolan's Batman Trilogy is the best trilogy in Cinema, many film snobs will disagree even I'm not a massive comic book fan but Nolan really succeeds in making smart, dark commercial cinema better then anyone.

    I find them really banal. What makes batman different from other superheroes is the lunacy and dark fantasy. Nolan's batman is just plain boring. Even the joker is reduced to a realistic Unibomber type of character. The Arkham Asylum video games are far superior in terms of having a vision. IMHO of course!


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    #58
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    Seriously, why am I a snob for disagreeing? Why are you the last word on cinema?

    For one, I never liked how the critics accused WB of using Ledger's death to market the film. Ledger was heavily used in marketing before his death because the performance was that good.

    Then you have the ones who say Ledger's performance carried the film, but they fail to realise that The Joker IS the plot. It's like saying the silence of the lambs is **** without Hopkins. It's idiotic.


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    #59
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Soft Falling Rain wrote: »
    For one, I never liked how the critics accused WB of using Ledger's death to market the film. Ledger was heavily used in marketing before his death because the performance was that good.

    Then you have the ones who say Ledger's performance carried the film, but they fail to realise that The Joker IS the plot. It's like saying the silence of the lambs is **** without Hopkins. It's idiotic.

    Neither of those things have anything to do with why I'm not a fan of the movies, and they still don't answer my question. Why are people who don't like the trilogy snobs? It's not like I sit down with my fez, a pipe and glass of port while I watch Tarkovsky on a projector. I'm just a dude who didn't like the movies.


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    #60
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    Neither of those things have anything to do with why I'm not a fan of the movies, and they still don't answer my question. Why are people who don't like the trilogy snobs? It's not like I sit down with my fez, a pipe and glass of port while I watch Tarkovsky on a projector. I'm just a dude who didn't like the movies.

    That post wasn't directly aimed at you, it was just a general reponse to the typical claims of the contrarians and snobs.


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    #61
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    fez's are actually quite common now that dr who went on about them


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