Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kippy · 29-05-2012 11:35am

Des wrote: »

What was the last time United signed a "world class" player?

Ronaldo was developed at the club.

van Nistelrooy is probably the last time United actually signed a player who would have been coveted higely by other clubs at the time of the transfer.

Possibly Berbatov being kidnapped off City.

Totally fair.
And in that time united have won plenty and probably dodged a few bullets in avoiding world class players such as , Tevez, Robinho, Kaka etc

Felexicon · 29-05-2012 11:35am

Des wrote: »

What was the last time United signed a "world class" player?
Ronaldo was developed at the club.

van Nistelrooy is probably the last time United actually signed a player who would have been coveted higely by other clubs at the time of the transfer.

Possibly Berbatov being kidnapped off City.

Eh Paul Scholes when we signed him from Lazy Acres Retirement Home last season.

_blank_ · 29-05-2012 11:36am

Felexicon wrote: »

Eh Paul Scholes when we signed him from Lazy Acres Retirement Home last season.

And who else was in for him at the time?

ie, being coveted by other sides?

:rolleyes:

Giggsy11 · 29-05-2012 11:38am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/35549

Averaged 2 and a half tackles per game, and just over 1 interception per game, last season. Not breathtaking for a defensive player - don't watch the italian league so can't say what he actually looks like on the pitch. Have heard him described as Essien with better dribbling, less pace. No idea if it is true.

In comparison:

Michael Carrick - 3 tackles and 2.4 interceptions per game.
Luka Modric - 1.6 tackes, 2.3 interceptions.
Yann M'Vila - 3.1 tackles, 2.5 interceptions.

(league only)

Carrick wins so many tackles but doesn't get enough credit, I think it is more to do with not hassling the opponent like Fletcher does.

_blank_ · 29-05-2012 11:43am

Nice edit flecixon

Blatter · 29-05-2012 11:57am

The Telegraph and Guardian both reporting the Kagawa news.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/29/shinji-kagawa-manchester-united-dortmund?newsfeed=true

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9297061/Manchester-United-close-in-on-deal-for-Shinji-Kagawa.html

DB21 · 29-05-2012 11:58am

Can we just throw €40m at Bayern for Schweinsteiger? :pac:

bmcc10 · 29-05-2012 12:05pm

DB21 wrote: »

Can we just throw €40m at Bayern for Schweinsteiger? :pac:

Don,t start

homerjay2005 · 29-05-2012 12:19pm

Des wrote: »

What was the last time United signed a "world class" player?

Ronaldo was developed at the club.

van Nistelrooy is probably the last time United actually signed a player who would have been coveted higely by other clubs at the time of the transfer.

Possibly Berbatov being kidnapped off City.

id nearly say that Roy Keane was the last time we won a big transfer race. Berba was uniteds all summer, City only came in at the last minute and berbas mind was well made up at that stage.

for that reason, along with his obvious class, ill always love berba.

_blank_ · 29-05-2012 12:22pm

Poborsky was being chased by Liverpool in 1996 after the Euros, I remember because my brother was devastated the day United signed him.

That was a fairly big transfer race at the time, he was the golden boy after the tournament.

It was after Keane.

stesaurus · 29-05-2012 12:31pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id nearly say that Roy Keane was the last time we won a big transfer race. Berba was uniteds all summer, City only came in at the last minute and berbas mind was well made up at that stage.

for that reason, along with his obvious class, ill always love berba.

I think we rely on our name far too much for transfers. It's fine for English based players but to French, Spainsh, Brazilian, Italian etc. we're just another big European side.

It's great to be able to say we're well run and self sufficient but it was always sooo anooying having the plc in place and not being able to push the boat out for 1 or 2 big names. It's worse now with the Glazers and the interest payouts.

Frustrating as we've always been 1 or 2 top players away from being the dominant team in Europe since the late 90's.

daveyboy_1ie · 29-05-2012 12:49pm

Nani?

Without being disrespectful thought the only other team in for him was spurs so maybe it was not a transfer battle as such. They did bid his release clause though (£14M) which meant two teams were in for him.

It’s a good point though, United rarely 'win' transfer battles, other than against other English teams and even then the last couple of seasons that’s not become a foregone conclusion.

Anthony16 · 29-05-2012 1:12pm

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Carrick wins so many tackles but doesn't get enough credit, I think it is more to do with not hassling the opponent like Fletcher does.

Plus,he lacks an agressivness,pace and his legs seem to go at times.
If put under pressure he always falters.

Tiote imo would be a great DM for us if thats what we are going for.

redzerdrog · 29-05-2012 1:18pm

Anthony16 wrote: »

Plus,he lacks an agressivness,pace and his legs seem to go at times.
If put under pressure he always falters.

Tiote imo would be a great DM for us if thats what we are going for.

good player and I like him at Newcastle but think he would get found out at a higher level when every rash challenge is under so much scrutiny he has a yellow card every 2nd game he plays for Newcastle and overall he would be too big a risk for ye imo

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 1:23pm

I think the biggest factor we need to look at is ball retention, not winning it back.

Winning it back is a problem, I feel we win it back too close to our own goal the majority of the time, but I think our inability to hold on to the ball was the biggest issue we had last season, especially in Europe. Look at the City game, we got the ball off them enough, just gave it back to them too quickly. same happened in europe - we were simply unable to hold on to the ball when we did get it.

A defensive midfield signing would be welcomed by me, but that player needs to be very competent on the ball. I'm not saying they need to be able to pass like Scholes, but we need someone who can play precise one touch football and move the ball on quickly, as well as tackling well.

v3ttel · 29-05-2012 1:30pm

Is there any danger in our squad numbers being moved around?

The new United jersey is on sale on Thursday, I'd like to get it printed. We do have 7 (Nani? Valencia? free, and possibly 9 (Welbeck? Chico?) presuming Berba is on his way out the door. I don't want to end up with an out of date printing on a new jersey. I might just hold off altogether.

And as regards signings:

Carrick-Tiote
Valencia-Kagawa-Nani

Rooney

Would be exceptional, if we were to go with a formation change. A playmaker in Kagawa, and top striker in Rooney, solid chalk on the boots wing play from Valencia, potential magic in Nani, an out and out destroyer in Tiote, and a solid support and interception specialist in Carrick. It has quite the balanced feel. It reminds me of 2008, when Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez & Nani/Giggs just had a license to attack with freedom.

Reports suggest Kagawa will be anywhere from €15m to €22. Presumably, Tiote would also be around £18m.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 1:34pm

Rooney10 wrote: »

Is there any danger in our squad numbers being moved around?

The new United jersey is on sale on Thursday, I'd like to get it printed. We do have 7 (Nani? Valencia? free, and possibly 9 (Welbeck? Chico?) presuming Berba is on his way out the door. I don't want to end up with an out of date printing on a new jersey. I might just hold off altogether.

And as regards signings:
Carrick-Tiote
Valencia-Kagawa-Nani
Rooney

Would be exceptional, if we were to go with a formation change. A playmaker in Kagawa, and top striker in Rooney, solid chalk on the boots wing play from Valencia, potential magic in Nani, an out and out destroyer in Tiote, and a solid support and interception specialist in Carrick. It has quite the balanced feel. It reminds me of 2008, when Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez & Nani/Giggs just had a license to attack with freedom.

Reports suggest Kagawa will be anywhere from €15m to €22. Presumably, Tiote would also be around £18m.

I'd put money on Welbeck getting 9, no idea who will get 7 though. Could be anyone. Reckon the club will want to put it on Kagawa if he signs, as it would be a marketing dream.

Don't forget that Cleverley was originally 39 or something like that in pre-season last summer and switched to 23 before the season started, so the initial numbers aren't solid. can't see many of the first teamers changing, though I suppose there is a possibility of Young giving 18 back to Scholes, maybe Young gets 7?

BERBA · 29-05-2012 1:35pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

for that reason, along with his obvious class, ill always love berba.

why thanks

Anthony16 · 29-05-2012 1:37pm

Personally, i thought we were incredibly open this season.
Now,maybe thats cos of ferguson.
At 4-2 up against everton surely he could have told both full backs to go as far as the half way line and one CM to sit back.
Surely,it was up to him to tell the players to shut up shop.
He seems to just allow them to attack at will and not focus on getting back into position.
Mourinho is the genius when it comes to shutting up shop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think the biggest factor we need to look at is ball retention, not winning it back.

Winning it back is a problem, I feel we win it back too close to our own goal the majority of the time, but I think our inability to hold on to the ball was the biggest issue we had last season, especially in Europe. Look at the City game, we got the ball off them enough, just gave it back to them too quickly. same happened in europe - we were simply unable to hold on to the ball when we did get it.

A defensive midfield signing would be welcomed by me, but that player needs to be very competent on the ball. I'm not saying they need to be able to pass like Scholes, but we need someone who can play precise one touch football and move the ball on quickly, as well as tackling well.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 29-05-2012 2:03pm

Its starting to be a trend

Shiny Kagawa‏@Kagawa69
I'm signing for the champion's league winner.

titan18 · 29-05-2012 2:12pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/35549

Averaged 2 and a half tackles per game, and just over 1 interception per game, last season. Not breathtaking for a defensive player - don't watch the italian league so can't say what he actually looks like on the pitch. Have heard him described as Essien with better dribbling, less pace. No idea if it is true.

In comparison:

Michael Carrick - 3 tackles and 2.4 interceptions per game.
Luka Modric - 1.6 tackes, 2.3 interceptions.
Yann M'Vila - 3.1 tackles, 2.5 interceptions.

(league only)

I would love M'Vila, can't see it happening, but would be a great signing

Macca07 · 29-05-2012 2:32pm

As good as done for Kagawa

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/7785063/United-close-to-Kagawa-deal

Mikeyt086 · 29-05-2012 2:33pm

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Its starting to be a trend

Shiny Kagawa‏@Kagawa69
I'm signing for the champion's league winner.

He's a Premier League sticker is he? :rolleyes:

MagicMarker · 29-05-2012 2:38pm

Jaysus, Dortmund a making a nice handy profit on that deal!

homerjay2005 · 29-05-2012 2:39pm

do ye honestly think that Modric would improve the team?

Jimmy Iovine · 29-05-2012 2:46pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Jaysus, Dortmund a making a nice handy profit on that deal!

Fair play to them. The ones I'd feel sorry for are his team back in Japan. They missed out big time by letting him go for that price. Surely they'll get a percentage cut of the transfer fee. If they don't then they can feel really hard done by.

SirDelboy18 · 29-05-2012 2:48pm

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Fair play to them. The ones I'd feel sorry for are his team back in Japan. They missed out big time by letting him go for that price. Surely they'll get a percentage cut of the transfer fee. If they don't then they can feel really hard done by.

For a closer to home example see Cork City and Shane Long/Kevin Doyle.

The_Kew_Tour · 29-05-2012 2:49pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do ye honestly think that Modric would improve the team?

He would improve the team, but the price that United will have to pay will be at least 50% more then his worth in my eyes.

I think there are few better options then him.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 2:55pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do ye honestly think that Modric would improve the team?

in an attacking sense, I do think we would be more fluid and potent with modric in the team. Slick user of the ball, comfortable in possession and not a bad dribbler.

I don't know if he would be as defensively sound as Scholes though - Scholes sat very deep because he needed to, Modric would likely be caught further up field opening up more space.

In my imagined formation of him beside Carrick, behind Kagawa, there is some great passing and control there, but not sure about the defensive workrate. Heard mixed things about Kagawa and defending. In Modric's case, he has played that type of role in Spurs' midfield, with Parker and van der Vaart - would Carrick and Kagawa be a better unit?

Given the choice between Modric and Martinez, I would take Martinez, but I certainly wouldn't be upset if we signed Modric - a little concerned about our ability to stop players like Silva and Hazard when we play against them though.

Adamcp898 · 29-05-2012 2:56pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do ye honestly think that Modric would improve the team?

Yes. I don't think there's a better midfielder of his type to be honest in the PL, and one of the only ones directly comparable to Scholesy. You can ask him to sit in the centre circle and he'll dictate a game playing long and short passes. He had a slow second half of the season alright but who didn't in that Spurs team.

s_carnage · 29-05-2012 2:57pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He would improve the team, but the price that United will have to pay will be at least 50% more then his worth in my eyes.

I think there are few better options then him.

Exactly while he would no doubt improve the team I just think the money could be spent better. For example the money Spurs would be looking for Modric you would easily satisfy Bilbao with an approach for Martinez.

SirDelboy18 · 29-05-2012 3:00pm

s_carnage wrote: »

Exactly while he would no doubt improve the team I just think the money could be spent better. For example the money Spurs would be looking for Modric you would easily satisfy Bilbao with an approach for Martinez.

Martinez has looked okay/fair playing centre back for most of this season though.

29-05-2012 3:00pm

Macca07 wrote: »

As good as done for Kagawa

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/7785063/United-close-to-Kagawa-deal

Have we not learned yet that there isn't anything 'as good as done'?:P

JimsAlterEgo · 29-05-2012 3:01pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think the biggest factor we need to look at is ball retention, not winning it back.

Winning it back is a problem, I feel we win it back too close to our own goal the majority of the time, but I think our inability to hold on to the ball was the biggest issue we had last season, especially in Europe. Look at the City game, we got the ball off them enough, just gave it back to them too quickly. same happened in europe - we were simply unable to hold on to the ball when we did get it.

A defensive midfield signing would be welcomed by me, but that player needs to be very competent on the ball. I'm not saying they need to be able to pass like Scholes, but we need someone who can play precise one touch football and move the ball on quickly, as well as tackling well.

a Roy Keane!!

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 3:01pm

Just thinking, my main issue with Modric i possible lack of defensive steel in the big Euro games or vs City/Chelsea etc.

I do actually think Jones could be a cracking defensive midfielder though, and where he could possibly be best used. It COULD be that we don't need to sign a DM because we have a lad already at the club who could do an excellent job for us there.

xtal191 · 29-05-2012 3:05pm

Spurs would be looking for a ridiculous fee for Modric, the money would definitely be better spent somewhere else, we could probably get two players for what they'd want.

Also Martinez is never going to sign for Utd.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 3:10pm

xtal191 wrote: »

Spurs would be looking for a ridiculous fee for Modric, the money would definitely be better spent somewhere else, we could probably get two players for what they'd want.

Also Martinez is never going to sign for Utd.

I don't know that they will.

second season without CL football. Modric was angling for a move last summer, claiming broken promises when it wasn't granted. No new contract as far as I know, though one was talked about.

I do think there is a possibility that he was told stay the season and you can have your move next summer, similar to what we did with Ronaldo.

Pure speculation, of course, but I have heard it rumoured.

It is possible he could be got for less money that was being thrown around last summer.

homerjay2005 · 29-05-2012 3:11pm

im just not a huge fan of modric, ive seen him play live 4 or 5 times now, and he never stood out. obviously having him would be nice as opposed to relying on giggs, park, jones and rafael in there and it would be a signal of intent and he seems a decent player, but he would be way way overpriced for me.

maybe its the case that he is the best, of a bad lot, that is essentially "available" so to speak.

as i said yesterday, i have a feeling Modric to united will now become the big transfer story of the summer, just wait and see

Quandary · 29-05-2012 3:12pm

I'd have Martinez over Modric any day of the week. The only fear would be him wanting to go back to one of the big two in Spain eventually but i suppose that can be said of any player who isn't English.

He's a big strong player who would easily handle the physicality of the premiership, and he's also a slick passer who's composed on the ball. He reminds me a little bit of Carrick but with more composure on the ball and a better first touch.

Martinez is exactly the type of player Utd need right now in midfield IMO.

If we got Martinez, Kagawa and "insert name here" I would be over the moon.

Mitch Connor · 29-05-2012 3:13pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im just not a huge fan of modric, ive seen him play live 4 or 5 times now, and he never stood out. obviously having him would be nice as opposed to relying on giggs, park, jones and rafael in there and it would be a signal of intent and he seems a decent player, but he would be way way overpriced for me.

maybe its the case that he is the best, of a bad lot, that is essentially "available" so to speak.

as i said yesterday, i have a feeling Modric to united will now become the big transfer story of the summer, just wait and see

Miguel Delany reckons United are certain to make a move for him now Hazard is gone, and that Fletcher told a jouno mate of Miguel that the United players were convinced Modric was going to be joining them last summer.

DM_7 · 29-05-2012 3:13pm

United could go three at the back.

I could be gone mad.

a lot of teams are doing it now and if a side is set up well its hard to play against. Spare defender, three in midfield. Still get width in the team, have the possibilty of playing a guy on front of defence or on front of the midfield in the no 10 role and frees up forwards to go where they want to find space.

I really think Valencia would be an amazing right wing back. Rio would be great as the central player in a back three.

possibly suit the midfielders. Carrick is the type of player who can drop into central defence to make four if needed. You wouldn't see United outnumbered in there anymore.

maybe it would be a waste of the attacking players liike Nani and Young.

Actually I can confirm i'm gone mad!

useless · 29-05-2012 3:17pm

did Modric not sign a new deal last season? As a result will he not have some massive buyout clause in hs contract?
I'm of the view that Fergie thinks Modric is too old to justify a large transfer fee for him, so i can't see the transfer happening.

xtal191 · 29-05-2012 3:17pm

Forget Martinez, he's never signing for us.

Think Modric signed a contract until 2016

Quandary · 29-05-2012 3:24pm

xtal191 wrote: »

Forget Martinez, he's never signing for us.

Well if we were going to make a crazy circa £35m bid for Modric (which would probably get turned down anyway!) I would much sooner test Martinez' and Athletic Bilbao resolve with the same bid just to see what happens - if we got shot shot down who cares? it's not like we're not used to players rejecting us

xtal191 · 29-05-2012 3:25pm

And then you'd get Madrid and Barce going in for him. I think we'd have more chance of signing Schweinsteiger than Martinez.

SirDelboy18 · 29-05-2012 3:33pm

Strootman looks likely in my view.

J. Marston · 29-05-2012 3:36pm

Spurs and Modric can feck off. He's a good player but Levy would rip us off big time.

Mikeyt086 · 29-05-2012 3:44pm

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Strootman looks likely in my view.

I really like Kevin Strootman as a player. Just the type of player we need in terms of style, wouldn't take too long to settle and when he does we could have a top player on our hands.

Pure speculation though.

homerjay2005 · 29-05-2012 3:48pm

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Strootman looks likely in my view.

where you see this?

ive seen a few rumblings, but nothing much to tell me it is likely, yet!

how much would he cost and what type of a player is he? is he likely to be starting 11 for them in the euros?

Blatter · 29-05-2012 3:50pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I really like Kevin Strootman as a player. Just the type of player we need in terms of style, wouldn't take too long to settle and when he does we could have a top player on our hands.

Pure speculation though.

I think he only signed for PSV last Summer so has plenty of years left on the contract. They'd want top dollar for him, maybe £15-20m at a guess. There's probably a player of similar ability to him that the club think they can get for cheaper.

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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