Cyber bullies are cowards.

Pawn · 23-09-2014 7:01am #1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-probe-into-claims-of-facebook-bullying-30607170.html

"She told the court she believes her son was being bullied because he was mixed race and had a hearing aid."

Why some people are so evil and cruel? Worse than wildest animals. Poor mother.

The Peanut · 23-09-2014 7:35am

Practically anonymous nature of internet has provided an outlet for some of the most despicable human traits. Nasty, cowardly bo***xes. They disgust me.

loremolis · 23-09-2014 7:36am

The Peanut wrote: »

Practically anonymous nature of internet has provided an outlet for some of the most despicable human traits. Nasty, cowardly bo***xes. They disgust me.

And what have you just done?

degsie · 23-09-2014 7:42am

The Internet is a reflection of society. Sadly.

The Peanut · 23-09-2014 7:42am

loremolis wrote: »

And what have you just done?

I have stated my opinion about a broad section of society who are targeting vulnerable individuals. I have NOT targeted an individual. I have not harassed an individual.

Feel free to focus on that if you like. I am a grown man. Not a teenager who obviously hasn't developed the coping strategies for this abuse.

loremolis · 23-09-2014 7:47am

The Peanut wrote: »

I have stated my opinion about a broad section of society who are targeting vulnerable individuals. I have NOT targeted an individual. I have not harassed an individual.

Feel free to focus on that if you like. I am a grown man. Not a teenager who obviously hasn't developed the coping strategies for this abuse.

Fair point.

The Peanut · 23-09-2014 7:54am

I am very glad that I was not a frequent visitor to forums or websites on the net when I was younger. I honestly don't think, as a teenager, that I would have been equipped to deal with a lot of the comments that are thrown about.

So much of it is obviously just banter, but teenagers are so sensitive that I can understand how every statement and personal jibe is analysed and becomes more than words.

Akrasia · 23-09-2014 9:15am

The Peanut wrote: »

Practically anonymous nature of internet has provided an outlet for some of the most despicable human traits. Nasty, cowardly bo***xes. They disgust me.

I'm not sure how anonymous this actually is. If it's bullying on facebook then everyone who posts a message has to send it from their account. Unless these are highly motivated and/or a member of Anonymous, their messages should be very easy to trace and there is a clear record of their bullying activity which there may not be if the bullying was done on the playground when nobody with authority is looking.

I think we need to launch some kind of service where children who are being targetted by internet bullies can forward on those messages to an agency who can then trace the bullies and take appropriate action (up to informing the gardai in severe cases of harassment, but usually simply reminding the bulliesthat their activities are being monitored and further action will be brought against them if they continue)

Pawn · 23-09-2014 9:35am

I usually filter out most of the news like this, but this one literally ruined my day.

Being a father of a teenager myself I can't imagine what the parents are going through. The boy was probably shy and quiet. He has been wearing hearing aid which has been probably making him uncomfortable enough, specially in his teens when young people are so oversensitive. The thought of hell this young man must have been going through before eventually killed himself is unbearable. It makes me physically sick when I imagine that my own son could be going through this.

I would love to say that given a chance I would be pleased to exterminate those bullies with my bare hands, but would it not make even worse than them? I don't know what to think. Its one of those days, when I read news like these and all I wanna do is to stay at home and cry.

Summer wind · 23-09-2014 12:32pm

I think internet sites such as Facebook should have a policy that the very first time people engage in this behaviour their account should be shut down.

yes there · 23-09-2014 12:37pm

Vast majority of bullying is done when kids are younger. The problem isnt the bullying, it is the education. Id like to think the vast mjority of bullys regretted it when they got older or when they realised the consequences. Kids should be shown short films of bullying and the results of it at school. How it affects their families. One film could show a bully but also his younger sibling getting bullied to drive the point home that it could affect anyone know matter how popular they think they are.

anncoates · 23-09-2014 12:44pm

While my heart goes out to that family, it would be quite hard for companies like Facebook to adjudicate in some of these things. You only have to look at other sites like here to realize how hard it is to fully clamp down on bullying, or even to distinguish beyond doubt when it occurs.

Obviously outright bullying is easier to detect but, for example, is somebody with unpopular or reprehensible opinions getting a lot of flak from other people on the net a victim of bullying?

Or what about the really subtle, nasty-side trolling of people that is expertly waged under the radar on all sites, including this one?

Or where does hyper sensitivity to harsh comments or piss taking start and bullying begin?

Not that I'm saying for a minute that bullying doesn't exist or that it isn't reprehensible but I would just imagine that if wading through the millions and millions of petty arguments, squabbles, false and genuine accusations of bullying are bad enough on a site like this, it must be near impossible on a site the size of Facebook

catallus · 23-09-2014 12:44pm

I've read that article and I can't see anything solid about him having been bullied, apart from what his mother is saying?

As tragic as his death was, this seems to me to be a case of those who are left behind grasping for an explanation as to why he killed himself.

My name is URL · 23-09-2014 12:46pm

Detectives said

"It is not enough that we have belief, we must be able to have facts that we can communicate to the American authorities,"

But hey, lets all just accept the assumption that the guy took his own life due to bullying.

caustic 1 · 23-09-2014 12:48pm

How do children learn to bully?

Home people, home. A child learns from example, if we want to admit it or not.

seamus · 23-09-2014 12:49pm

catallus wrote: »

I've read that article and I can't see anything solid about him having been bullied, apart from what his mother is saying?

As tragic as his death was, this seems to me to be a case of those who are left behind grasping for an explanation as to why he killed himself.

Agreed. The article basically states, "The Gardai are investigating possible online harrassment after a claim was made about messages which may have been received".

I'm not sure the outcome of the investigation will yield anything but more questions for this poor family.

Pawn · 23-09-2014 12:55pm

seamus wrote: »

Agreed. The article basically states, "The Gardai are investigating possible online harrassment after a claim was made about messages which may have been received".

Ah, so it's all grand. Good.

anncoates · 23-09-2014 1:01pm

Pawn wrote: »

Ah, so it's all grand. Good.

It's a valid point though.

It would be wrong to witch-hunt anybody (without proof) the poor kid had a fight with just because of the tragic circumstances, as heartbreaking as it is for the family.

Pawn · 23-09-2014 1:05pm

anncoates wrote: »

It's a valid point though.

I know of those valid points alright. The poor guy just one day went nuts and decided to kill himself. And even if he was bullied we may never find out as it's all gonna be brushed under the carpet, as it happens.

Stupid thread, stupid me. Mods - please close and we all move on. Happy days.

Dr. Mantis Toboggan · 23-09-2014 1:07pm

Pawn wrote: »

I know of those valid points alright. The poor guy just one day went nuts and decided to kill himself. And even if he was bullied we may never find out as it's all gonna be brushed under the carpet, as it happens.

Stupid thread, stupid me. Mods - please close and we all move on. Happy days.

You feeling bullied?

Hang in there. xXOXx

LeinsterDub · 23-09-2014 1:07pm

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg

anncoates · 23-09-2014 1:09pm

Pawn wrote: »

I know of those valid points alright. The poor guy just one day went nuts and decided to kill himself. And even if he was bullied we may never find out as it's all gonna be brushed under the carpet, as it happens.

Stupid thread, stupid me. Mods - please close and we all move on. Happy days.

I think you're assigning a lack of compassion or dislike for bullying to what's being said, which is unfortunate.

SpaceTime · 23-09-2014 1:10pm

Kids and teens can be unbelievably crewl.

I remember one incident when I was young where someone found out that a friend of mine's mum had died and the kids literally taunted him about it shouting abuse about how he'd no mum! Even at age 6 I was horrified.

I got serious xenophobic abuse here when I arrived first as I had a slightly American crossed with French accent. Even the teacher called me "the yank" or made regular reference to how French people liked garlic... Used to really upset me and I stopped going to school for a while by faking illness!

Then when I went to France I got abuse for having a slightly Irish/American "anglophone" accent.

I also saw people being bullied brutally about their looks, disabilities (especially speech and learning issues) etc etc

I can only imagine how nasty teens might be online with each other!

I think the only solution is talk and support and discussion.

You have to "out" the bullies. They thrive on secrecy and intimidation.

There's no way you can police the entire internet but I think we need to equip kids and adults to deal with it.

Oranage2 · 23-09-2014 1:27pm

caustic 1 wrote: »

How do children learn to bully?

Home people, home. A child learns from example, if we want to admit it or not.

I'd guess not in every case, I believe some people are just born bullies, I don't want to read the article but It's a horrible thing bullying with no real solutions.

Peist2007 · 23-09-2014 1:33pm

I think it needs to be pointed out that, based on the content of that article, Facebook are a shower of arrogant pricks. If i had an account with facebook today it would be closed based on that article.

catallus · 23-09-2014 1:34pm

Yeah! Facebook bastards how dare they not give all their info on their database to the cops based on nothing whatsoever. :mad:

Dr. Mantis Toboggan · 23-09-2014 1:36pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

I think it needs to be pointed out that, based on the content of that article, Facebook are a shower of arrogant pricks. If i had an account with facebook today it would be closed based on that article.

You should open an account and close it again, just to make that very point.

Peist2007 · 23-09-2014 1:40pm

Dr. Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

You should open an account and close it again, just to make that very point.

That wouldnt make any point. It would be the act of an idiot. Knock yourself out

Dr. Mantis Toboggan · 23-09-2014 1:44pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

That wouldnt make any point. It would be the act of an idiot. Knock yourself out

It might validate your self righteous indignation though? No?

Amazingfun · 23-09-2014 1:47pm

Pawn wrote: »

I know of those valid points alright. The poor guy just one day went nuts and decided to kill himself. And even if he was bullied we may never find out as it's all gonna be brushed under the carpet, as it happens.

Stupid thread, stupid me. Mods - please close and we all move on. Happy days.

This poster closed his account over a thread about a case that *might* have something to do with bullying?

Peist2007 · 23-09-2014 1:48pm

Dr. Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

It might validate your self righteous indignation though? No?

And what would cure your being a twat?

catallus · 23-09-2014 1:54pm

Amazingfun wrote: »

This poster closed his account over a thread about a case that *might* have something to do with bullying?

One of the more awful things about having been bullied is that it makes a victim, over a period of sustained harassment, actually develop the mindset of a victim, making them become mentally comfortable with being seen as a victim. But it is taboo to speak of it; it validates a certain degree of victim-blaming, to a degree. Which is unacceptable.

foggy_lad · 23-09-2014 2:10pm

Pawn wrote: »

I know of those valid points alright. The poor guy just one day <snip> decided to kill himself. And even if he was bullied we may never find out as it's all gonna be brushed under the carpet, as it happens.

Stupid thread, stupid me. Mods - please close and we all move on. Happy days.

Unfortunately this can happen all to often in society and not ever be understood by family and others affected by suicide.

Sometimes there is no reason that will ever be clear or logical or rational to anyone but the person that took their own life. This can make the whole tragedy of suicide so much more difficult to understand for those left behind. People look for answers and for something or someone to place at least some of the "blame" onto but in reality there is no blame or even answer because the answer is gone with the person that has died.

pedro1234 · 23-09-2014 2:11pm

ALL bullies are cowards, it's not just "cyber" bullies.

Off topic: There's a group of lads in my home town who are notorious for jumping people who are drunk, walking home alone. A group of 3 or 4 of them will do it. If you catch one of them on their own they'll run like the wind. Why? Because they're cowards.

Back on topic: This is a tragic story, and I'm glad Facebook keeps EVERYTHING. No matter what you do on there, it's recorded. If you've ever seen a subpoena, it's fairly scary actually. Every photo you look at, profile you view, it's all kept in their mysql database. When you edit a comment the original and the new one are stored. Every message you've ever sent, even if you deleted it, is still in their database. This has helped the authorities with lots of cases similar to this one.

I doubt the people who were messaging him were doing it because of the "anonymity" of the internet. Regardless, they'll be caught once Facebook get the appropriate request from the cops here, and then hand over the information to them.

It's too little, too late for this poor lad and his family, but hopefully it can bring them some sort of closure.

humanji · 23-09-2014 2:12pm

MOD: Stop the bickering. I've deleted several posts and I shouldn't have to delete any more.

Peist2007 · 23-09-2014 2:13pm

pedro1234 wrote: »

ALL bullies are cowards, it's not just "cyber" bullies.

Off topic: There's a group of lads in my home town who are notorious for jumping people who are drunk, walking home alone. A group of 3 or 4 of them will do it. If you catch one of them on their own they'll run like the wind. Why? Because they're cowards.

Back on topic: This is a tragic story, and I'm glad Facebook keeps EVERYTHING. No matter what you do on there, it's recorded. If you've ever seen a subpoena, it's fairly scary actually. Every photo you look at, profile you view, it's all kept in their mysql database. When you edit a comment the original and the new one are stored. Every message you've ever sent, even if you deleted it, is still in their database. This has helped the authorities with lots of cases similar to this one.

I doubt the people who were messaging him were doing it because of the "anonymity" of the internet. Regardless, they'll be caught once Facebook get the appropriate request from the cops here, and then hand over the information to them.

It's too little, too late for this poor lad and his family, but hopefully it can bring them some sort of closure.

The hearing prompted Facebook to issue a statement saying they will "respond to valid legal requests for information" and that they "encourage law enforcement agencies to follow our guidelines to help take their cases forward".

Emboldened bit for the laugh

pedro1234 · 23-09-2014 2:16pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

The hearing prompted Facebook to issue a statement saying they will "respond to valid legal requests for information" and that they "encourage law enforcement agencies to follow our guidelines to help take their cases forward".

Emboldened bit for the laugh

Not sure what your point is. The cops have to submit a request to Facebook formally. It's just like lodging a complaint with the cops - you have to follow their guidelines to do it. Well it's the same with a request for information from Facebook.

catallus · 23-09-2014 2:18pm

pedro1234 wrote: »

ALL bullies are cowards, it's not just "cyber" bullies.

As comforting as it is to believe this, I don't think it is true.

Bullies are usually very self-confident, clever and astute at judging other's character. Not engaging a victim/target when they are by themselves is just being intelligent.

It is the bullied, who submit to the harassment of the bully, allowing their tormentors the opportunity to humiliate them, who are the cowards, however hard that might be to accept.

anncoates · 23-09-2014 2:24pm

catallus wrote: »

It is the bullied, who submit to the harassment of the bully, allowing their tormentors the opportunity to humiliate them, who are the cowards, however hard that might be to accept.

That's an exceptionally heartless view of the bullying dynamic. Not everybody had the confidence to stand up to bullying not to mention the fact that the bullying is often inherently unfair in proportion: numbers against one; age; strength; authority/power etc

Peist2007 · 23-09-2014 2:36pm

pedro1234 wrote: »

Not sure what your point is. The cops have to submit a request to Facebook formally. It's just like lodging a complaint with the cops - you have to follow their guidelines to do it. Well it's the same with a request for information from Facebook.

My point is that, if bullying takes place, and the authorities want evidence, Facebook's guidelines should be completely irrelevant.

catallus · 23-09-2014 2:36pm

Maybe I am overstating it, but no more than those who say all bullies are cowards.

Peist2007 · 23-09-2014 2:37pm

catallus wrote: »

As comforting as it is to believe this, I don't think it is true.

Bullies are usually very self-confident, clever and astute at judging other's character. Not engaging a victim/target when they are by themselves is just being intelligent.

It is the bullied, who submit to the harassment of the bully, allowing their tormentors the opportunity to humiliate them, who are the cowards, however hard that might be to accept.

Couldnt disagree more and the classic After Hours faux-genuine comment which you seem to be addicted to. Mammy not cuddling you at home?

Fat Christy · 23-09-2014 2:58pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Mammy not cuddling you at home?

This is a thread about bullying yet you're coming out with comments like the above?

Seriously?

humanji · 23-09-2014 2:58pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Couldnt disagree more and the classic After Hours faux-genuine comment which you seem to be addicted to. Mammy not cuddling you at home?

MOD: Don't post in this thread again.

catallus · 23-09-2014 3:18pm

It's not a question of people "letting themselves" be bullied; it's a question of society putting victims on a pedestal in the "dynamic", which leads to nonsense such as "all bullies are cowards" which is obviously untrue.

Cyber bullies are cowards.

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