Pro12: Munster vs Leinster, Sat 31 March 7:30pm, Live on RTÉ2

dougieruggie · 01-04-2012 8:52am

In my opinion ROG is now the fourth best outhalf in the country after Sexton, Madigan and Humphreys (in that order).

The Leinster backrow was pure class turning over ball at will.

I'm glad I can say this because now that Leinster won it wont seem like I'm looking for 'excuses' but Nigel Owens was diabolical last night. Let Munster away with murder and was a joke at scrum time. There were a number of penalties at scrum time that should have been given to Leinster and Horan alone should have yellow carded. Munster at times were using their hands on the ground in front of Owens and he didn't blow them up, it was really a home sided affair in the reffing. His standards seem to be really slipping. Also thought Murphy deserved a yellow for tugging on Nacewas shirt when he was running in for the try but not even a penalty? outrageous. Then Fitzgerald (i think) gets taken out in the air and subsequently gets penalised (wtf). There were so many bad calls against Leinster.

Was it Owens who reffed Munster's home game with Norhampton as well?

thomond2006 · 01-04-2012 9:00am

Leinster

An interesting stat:

Not since Munster vs Leinster in the then Magners League in April 2009, have both sides scored a try in this fixture.

Benny Cake · 01-04-2012 9:02am

Leinster

thomond2006 wrote: »

An interesting stat:

Not since Munster vs Leinster in the then Magners League in April 2009, have both sides scored a try in this fixture.

Thats crazy...

How many lineouts did we turn over last night? Felt like about ten million from where I was sitting :mad:

irishbucsfan · 01-04-2012 9:40am

Dylan Hartley

D'Arcy was very good yesterday. Got through loads of work on the ground. People are looking for him to be an attacking threat when Leinster have no interest in putting him into that situation.

It's great having the D'Arcy/O'Driscoll partnership back. It's like having another back row. They work so hard together. It's also great having McFadden there to come on with Madigan to add another attacking threat.

Delighted to have a fully fit team going into the Cardiff game. Hopefully White is fit enough to wear that 18 jersey.

rrpc · 01-04-2012 9:43am

Dylan Hartley

CoDy1 wrote: »

The most obvious thing that everyone should have learned from this game is that Madigan is too good to be just Sextons understudy. The lad needs to be playing 1st team rugby, I honestly think he could be better then Sexton.

Any stupid D4tresshead who thinks he should be kept in Leinster as a benchwarmer is blindly putting province over national team. And also runs the risk of being called a 'Kidney'.

OK, I'll bite (and I'm not from D4

)
Madigan has started more games for Leinster this season then Sexton has. As long as Sexton is the starting OH (or even the bench OH) for Ireland, this will continue.

Madigan is clearly enjoying his rugby at Leinster and thriving under Joe Schmidt, why would he move?

What he really needs is for Kidney to put him on the bench for Ireland and drop ROG. I doubt it will happen though.

Banbridgeman · 01-04-2012 9:44am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

D'Arcy was very good yesterday. Got through loads of work on the ground. People are looking for him to be an attacking threat when Leinster have no interest in putting him into that situation.

It's great having the D'Arcy/O'Driscoll partnership back. It's like having another back row. They work so hard together. It's also great having McFadden there to come on with Madigan to add another attacking threat.

Delighted to have a fully fit team going into the Cardiff game. Hopefully White is fit enough to wear that 18 jersey.

I think it's gotten to the stage now where Leinster's entire bench is impact. People always talked about the impact the forward replacements and Boss/redden can bring, now surely you've got to include the likes of Madigan and McFadden alongside them. It must be terrifying for opposition when Madigan comes on because they just know when they're on their last legs the tempo will be upped again

irishbucsfan · 01-04-2012 9:48am

Dylan Hartley

If the IRFU want to offer Madigan a central contract I'd be happy to see him go. Until then he'll be going nowhere.

I'm sure he has the ambition to stay at Leinster. I think we could see a nice battle between himself and the long fellow. And Madigan can continue his education of ROG by showing him how to handle being a backup without bitching in the press every other week!

rrpc · 01-04-2012 10:12am

Dylan Hartley

Banbridgeman wrote: »

I think it's gotten to the stage now where Leinster's entire bench is impact. People always talked about the impact the forward replacements and Boss/redden can bring, now surely you've got to include the likes of Madigan and McFadden alongside them. It must be terrifying for opposition when Madigan comes on because they just know when they're on their last legs the tempo will be upped again

Plus Madigan plays a different game to Sexton. He can pop up anywhere in the line and make a break and the DG he scored last night was so unexpected that not one Munster player even tried to block him down.

I'd charactarise him as 'cheeky'

. Does the unexpected all the time and really tests defences.

justsomebloke · 01-04-2012 10:13am

Dylan Hartley

Sandwlch wrote: »

And BTW, how come Joe seems to escape the criticism that Kidney gets when selecting Darcy?

The winning helps

gcgirl · 01-04-2012 10:19am

rrpc wrote: »

Banbridgeman wrote: »

I think it's gotten to the stage now where Leinster's entire bench is impact. People always talked about the impact the forward replacements and Boss/redden can bring, now surely you've got to include the likes of Madigan and McFadden alongside them. It must be terrifying for opposition when Madigan comes on because they just know when they're on their last legs the tempo will be upped again

Plus Madigan plays a different game to Sexton. He can pop up anywhere in the line and make a break and the DG he scored last night was so unexpected that not one Munster player even tried to block him down.

I'd charactarise him as 'cheeky' . Does the unexpected all the time and really tests defences.

Your spot on on the drop goal it was brilliant it basically came out of nowhere

irishbucsfan · 01-04-2012 10:24am

Dylan Hartley

Leinster had an advantage for a penalty and there was nothing out wide. There was no risk involved in the drop goal if it had missed.

GerM · 01-04-2012 10:25am

It would be pointless for Madigan to go south. ROG will be in that jersey for another 2 years. Going south would see him sitting on the bench and getting nowhere. We can all see how much Keatley has gone backwards since the end of the WC and his game time has become very infrequent. His talent is being wasted, these guys can't play AIL much either as they're on benchwarming duty and the new rules dictate only 2 contracted players so for long stretches they're playing literally no rugby.

Madigan is in the best place possible right now to develop. His progress has been huge over the past 18 months. For him to leave would be madness. His game is coming along but he still lacks the control required. Last night he looked very good but he was in cruise control with ball on a plate. Different when he needs to dig things out and play a territorial game to relieve pressure. He'll get there though and needs game time to do that which he's getting at Leinster and won't in Munster. He's the 5th highest Leinster player this season in terms of game time getting almost twice as much as Sexton. If he went south, he'd sit on the bench and stagnate and work with poorer coaches for an outhalf.

GerM · 01-04-2012 10:31am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

D'Arcy was very good yesterday. Got through loads of work on the ground. People are looking for him to be an attacking threat when Leinster have no interest in putting him into that situation.

It's great having the D'Arcy/O'Driscoll partnership back. It's like having another back row. They work so hard together. It's also great having McFadden there to come on with Madigan to add another attacking threat.

Agreed, D'Arcy has entered that zone where he needs to do something spectacular to get credit but I thought he was very good last night. Made some hard yards in contact and worked himself into the ground at rucks and defensively. I was worried when he came off originally. Game seemed to be used as a training exercise for BOD. He saw very little ball but worked hard, tackled and rucked and played for 80 minutes. I think the game was just to get him through a full game and build match fitness. He wasn't used in attack and was a decoy for most of the night.

Fishooks12 · 01-04-2012 10:50am

I would have liked to see Madigan in red but the more I see of him to more I think he'll be a pain in Sextons side a lot sooner than people think.

Owens was a joke, as he often is, yet he's still lauded as one of the "best in the game"

It was clear as day that Horan was taking a beating off Ross. Carding both of them was a joke and a cop out

badbeatcentral · 01-04-2012 11:00am

MADIGAN IS GODIGAN

danthefan · 01-04-2012 11:04am

I thought D'Arcy was poor with ball in hand. He seemed to slow/stop going into contact and he never passed. He did some great work at rucks and defended well though.

jacothelad · 01-04-2012 11:15am

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of jealousy of your more successful cousins?

Don't worry. Ulster will get their time in the sun. It may even happen next week. If not, I'm sure the IRFU will continue to assist Ulster in their goal of competing with the big boys.

Admiration, of Leinster and Munster, not envy. You need to think positively. Not everyone has your mind set. Munster didn't lose the game because of lack of leadership, which was the point of the post. They lost it because Leinster had a full deck from which to select. Munster didn't - and selected Marcus Horan, once a fine player - now a liability at the top level. He was the difference between the sides while he was on the pitch. He won't start against Ulster. While I would of course be more than happy for Ulster to win next week, history shows us that such an outcome is unlikely. Munster with POC, Du Preez, Ryan etc are a more formidable team. Don't be such a curmudgeonly and defensive pirate Captain.

01-04-2012 11:39am

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of jealousy of your more successful cousins?

Don't worry. Ulster will get their time in the sun. It may even happen next week. If not, I'm sure the IRFU will continue to assist Ulster in their goal of competing with the big boys.

There's at least a decent chance that next week we might be partying like it's 1999

danthefan · 01-04-2012 11:39am

jacothelad wrote: »

Admiration, of Leinster and Munster, not envy. You need to think positively. Not everyone has your mind set. Munster didn't lose the game because of lack of leadership, which was the point of the post. They lost it because Leinster had a full deck from which to select. Munster didn't - and selected Marcus Horan, once a fine player - now a liability at the top level. He was the difference between the sides while he was on the pitch. He won't start against Ulster. While I would of course be more than happy for Ulster to win next week, history shows us that such an outcome is unlikely. Munster with POC, Du Preez, Ryan etc are a more formidable team. Don't be such a curmudgeonly and defensive pirate Captain.

What? With the way the game was reffed that's just completely wrong. Leinster got basically no advantage out of it because Owens refused to see he was the issue.

Tox56 · 01-04-2012 11:56am

Dylan Hartley

I haven't read the whole thread, but most people seem to be suggesting Madigan should go to Munster. Surely if he was going to move, he would be best served to go to Ulster? A young, exciting backline, where 10 is probably the weakest area. He would probably have a field day there.

For now though, I think he would be best served to stay in Leinster. People seem to forget, 1 injury at 10 and that's it, we have nobody (once Berquist leaves). As has been said already, Madigan has played more for Leinster than Sexton this year, and if Sexton gets injured he moves straight in.

Sexton picks up an injury in the QF, Madigan plays a HEC Semi-Final for the defending champions, why would he move somewhere else? Joe has proven he trusts him, not least by taking off Sexton early yesterday (who was playing very well), and giving Madigan a good run.

He's only just turned 23, and we need to see how he develops before sending him off. Give him a few more years, possibly getting a few HEC games and constant Rabo play where he can earn an Irish bench spot, and then we will talk. There is no need to offload him anywhere soon.

ironingbored · 01-04-2012 11:56am

Dylan Hartley

Sandwlch wrote: »

Absolutely keep Madigan at Leinster - but certainly not as a bench warmer. The only question is whether it is him or Sexton to develop as a 2nd five-eighth. To replace Darcy. The sooner the better. Good for Leinster, good for Ireland.

(And BTW, how come Joe seems to escape the criticism that Kidney gets when selecting Darcy?)

And I aint stupid.

Ehm...because Joe wins things and knows what he's doing?

Fishooks12 · 01-04-2012 11:58am

Tox56 wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread, but most people seem to be suggesting Madigan should go to Munster. Surely if he was going to move, he would be best served to go to Ulster? A young, exciting backline, where 10 is probably the weakest area. He would probably have a field day there.

For now though, I think he would be best served to stay in Leinster. People seem to forget, 1 injury at 10 and that's it, we have nobody (once Berquist leaves). As has been said already, Madigan has played more for Leinster than Sexton this year, and if Sexton gets injured he moves straight in.

He's only just turned 23, and we need to see how he develops before sending him off. Give him a few more years, possibly getting a few HEC games and constant Rabo play where he can earn an Irish bench spot, and then we will talk. There is no need to offload him anywhere soon.

Given his talent I really can't see him being happy to be warming the bench in the HC for the next few years

Tox56 · 01-04-2012 12:00pm

Dylan Hartley

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Given his talent I really can't see him being happy to be warming the bench in the HC for the next few years

In 1/2 years, do you think Madigan will be trusted enough to play a pool game or two? I certainly think it's possible, not to mention the probability of a Sexton injury in that time.

Fishooks12 · 01-04-2012 12:02pm

Tox56 wrote: »

In 1/2 years, do you think Madigan will be trusted enough to play a pool game or two? I certainly think it's possible, not to mention the probability of a Sexton injury in that time.

I think he's ready now tbh and there's not many teams in the competition where he wouldn't be the starting ten

Tox56 · 01-04-2012 12:04pm

Dylan Hartley

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I think he's ready now tbh and there's not many teams in the competition where he wouldn't be the starting ten

The players and coaches around him are developing him to be a top player, he doesn't need to leave that environment any time soon.

Higher · 01-04-2012 12:36pm

Madigan would be starting 10 for every team in Ireland bar Leinster.

And even then, I don't think Joe considers him far off Sexton's place.

Both awesome players. I think Madigan would be crazy to leave to Munster. They don't play the Leinster way and I have a feeling ROG wouldn't be too warming to being dropped at Munster and might be a little disruptive.

Benny Cake · 01-04-2012 12:39pm

Leinster

Tox56 wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread, but most people seem to be suggesting Madigan should go to Munster. Surely if he was going to move, he would be best served to go to Ulster? A young, exciting backline, where 10 is probably the weakest area. He would probably have a field day there.

Two words: Tax Break

As long as the current system is in place there will be very few head north from Leinster & Munster...

.ak · 01-04-2012 12:41pm

justsomebloke wrote: »

Ha Ha you read the indo!!!!

Even worse, someone bought it on the OLSC bus! I just nabbed it for the Match Day article. To be honest I want those 5 minutes of my life back.

jacothelad · 01-04-2012 12:42pm

danthefan wrote: »

What? With the way the game was reffed that's just completely wrong. Leinster got basically no advantage out of it because Owens refused to see he was the issue.

I meant that he was absolutely woeful, contributed nothing, stifled any possibility of set piece ball for Munster. Munster were effectively playing with 14 players.

danthefan · 01-04-2012 12:43pm

Higher wrote: »

Madigan would be starting 10 for every team in Ireland bar Leinster.

He wouldn't though. The chances of McGahan selecting him ahead of ROG would be precisely zero. Keatley couldn't even get off the bench last night despite how poor ROG was.

Higher · 01-04-2012 12:46pm

Actually I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of O'Gara's performance last night. He was muck! Missing kicks, knocking on, bad out of hand kicks. No idea what happened there.

You're right though, if Keatley cant get on when O'Gara is as poor as he was then theres little hope for him. Although Keatley has been very poor himself. Madigan is a huge step up.

I'm sorry but people laughed at me when I advocated Madigan for the 6N over ROG. I wonder if they're still laughing? Whatever about Madigan's inexperience hes been playing better than ROG all season.

.ak · 01-04-2012 12:47pm

RuggieBear wrote: »

if owens is going to ref it like this, it would be better for the game to make scrums incontestable...

Just going through the thread and saw this... Funny I had to quote it, because clearly he [Owens] tried to...

CatFromHue · 01-04-2012 12:47pm

Dylan Hartley

Tox56 wrote: »

In 1/2 years, do you think Madigan will be trusted enough to play a pool game or two? I certainly think it's possible, not to mention the probability of a Sexton injury in that time.

He already has. He started against Montpellier at home this season. He also came one for 20 against Bath and Glasgow I think.

Higher wrote: »

Madigan would be starting 10 for every team in Ireland bar Leinster.

And even then, I don't think Joe considers him far off Sexton's place.

Both awesome players. I think Madigan would be crazy to leave to Munster. They don't play the Leinster way and I have a feeling ROG wouldn't be too warming to being dropped at Munster and might be a little disruptive.

Madigan is doing well but it's a bit much to say he'd be starting ahead of Humphries and ROG for their respective provinces. He's still a distance to go yet, but he is on the way.

Higher · 01-04-2012 12:50pm

He would definitely start ahead of ROG on the basis of form this season.

01-04-2012 12:52pm

Higher wrote: »

He would definitely start ahead of ROG on the basis of form this season.

except without appearances there is no form
and to be selected ahead of ROG he'd have to be in the same team
and to be in the same team means no appearances

settle padwan, I feel you are wound up about this a bit.

Quint2010 · 01-04-2012 2:38pm

Dylan Hartley

Great win last night. Not a great match but great atmosphere. Was sitting in the stand opposite to where the teams come out at the right hand end and there were loads of Leinster fans and we got some great renditions of Molly Molone going. On the pitch the game was wrecked by Owens but Leinsters bench is simply awesome-Strauss, Cullen, SOB, Boss, Madigan and Mcfadden all played their part in upping the intensity once the game hit 9-9. I think we will hammer Cardiff next week. As for Munster well they competed manfully but any team would miss POC, Ryan, Wallace, Murray and Howlett. Munster fans very gracious in defeat but I honestly think Ulster will turn them over next week. Also fascinating to see Schmidt training with the backs before the game. The guy is obviously fit as a fiddle.

thomond2006 · 01-04-2012 3:37pm

Leinster

This has to be the quietest Munster vs Leinster thread in ages!

durkadurka · 01-04-2012 3:40pm

Most Munster fans I met last night were fairly depressed.

No one was disputing the result in the slightest.

CatFromHue · 01-04-2012 3:45pm

Dylan Hartley

No, even the headline on the Munster website is fairly depressing for a Munster fan.

Munster Way Off The Pace

Even though this top of the table RaboDirect PR012 clash was tied nine points apiece with twenty seven minutes to go it was no great surprise that Leinster ended up comfortable 18-9 winners, at a packed Thomond Park Stadium
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/10313.php

Tox56 · 01-04-2012 3:46pm

Dylan Hartley

Hate to challenge the great Joe, but surely a breakdown dominated game would have suited Strauss more than Cronin, with Cronin increasing the impact of that bench even more.

If it was purely gametime I can understand, but Strauss would have had a field day at the breakdown, similar to how Varley did.

Still, got away with a win, and Strauss will surely be back for Cardiff.

GerM · 01-04-2012 4:06pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Hate to challenge the great Joe, but surely a breakdown dominated game would have suited Strauss more than Cronin, with Cronin increasing the impact of that bench even more.

If it was purely gametime I can understand, but Strauss would have had a field day at the breakdown, similar to how Varley did.

Still, got away with a win, and Strauss will surely be back for Cardiff.

Would think that was mostly due to Cronin needing games after getting scant game time in the last 2 months; he only got 40 minutes in the 6N. He wasn't up to speed to be involved in the Ospreys game so needed this one ahead of next week if he's called upon.

It stands out as the only selection that wasn't really in keeping with the selection overall. Every other call was to secure the breakdown and set piece with the big carriers coming into things in the last 20-25 minutes to raise the tempo and secure the win. Worked a treat but Cronin would have been tailor made for it if he didn't need match fitness.

chancer12 · 01-04-2012 4:09pm

Dylan Hartley

Deleted User wrote: »

Does Pope realise that Madigan has played more rugby than Sexton this season?

Not a waste when he's getting quality coaching from Schmidt. Leinster play a lovely passing game and Mads passing is spectacular.

chancer12 · 01-04-2012 4:14pm

Dylan Hartley

ongarite wrote: »

With Horgan retiring I think its pretty certain he will get a new contract if he wants it.
He is probably the 4th choice winger after Isa, Luke & D.Kearney

Sure I saw somewhere this week that Carr had signed a new one year contract w/Leinster

chancer12 · 01-04-2012 4:16pm

Dylan Hartley

Digifriendly wrote: »

From what I saw Zebo hardly touched the ball.

Didn't do much with the ball but gave Isa a serious thump in an off-the-ball incident, right in front of the linesman but it wasn't dealt with.

Teferi · 01-04-2012 4:52pm

Just some (now sober) thoughts on the game...

Darce had a bit of a mare last night. Didn't think he was up to his once high standards. If he can't find form I would be hoping we can gently start moving him out of the starting 15. Obviously he has an advantage when it comes to his partnership with BOD and there was a particular bit of lovely play last night where BOD offloaded to his right just knowing Darce was there but overall he was poor.

I don't know where the sudden debate over Madigan is coming from considering his form already this season. Has had a cracker of a season. Loved his cheeky little drop goal. Should be aiming for a bench spot in Ireland which brings me onto...

Ronan O'Gara. I love him for all he has done and will never doubt his commitment to the Red or the Green but he is a fading force. I'll never doubt his boot but the rest of his game, which was never really rounded anyway, is on its way out. If rugby was played like American football where you can bring on ROG to just do the kicks then he would be playing rugby into his 50's but it isn't. If Munster don't find a suitable replacement or give Keatley a chance to sink or swim then they will be having huge problems very soon. Had an argument with two friends last night (committed Leinster fans) that ROG has gone to pot. They wouldn't agree and just kept commenting on his "control of the game". I'm not entirely sure they know what that means and that it has scope outside of his fantastic boot. Sadly, age is catching up very fast with the great man.

Again, Nigel Owens was pure muck.

The first half as a spectacle was horrible. The second half improved. The scrum was a mess and I thought Mike Ross was very hard done by getting a yellow.

SOB and Mike Ross where both able to pass from the ruck without taking a few steps. Tomas O'Leary take note...

I remain unconvinced by Zebo.

Sandwlch · 01-04-2012 5:03pm

Teferi wrote: »

I remain unconvinced by Zebo.

Me too. But he may improve.

At the moment he reminds me of a good gaelic footballer who has decide have a go at rugby and is put out on the wing to see how he gets on - athletic, quick, and keen - but seems to lack rugby, as opposed to general 'footballing', instinct and experience.

irishbucsfan · 01-04-2012 5:14pm

Dylan Hartley

D'Arcy just wasn't poor. If you are saying D'Arcy was poor I'd love to know what you are basing it on. It's completely incorrect as far as I'm concerned.

People are looking at his performance for its attacking qualities. He wasn't used in that regard yesterday. What he did do was quite limited but very effective. He defended well, he fought on the ground and in open play he carried intelligently and ensured we kept the ball.

In attack Leinster had no interest in using D'Arcy or O'Driscoll. They were being smart. Munsters defense from pillar out to Earls is fantastic. There is not a hope of getting through the A, B, or C gaps in the center of the field, unless play breaks up. So when they had the ball in possession they put it wide, looking to put a carrier like Kearney outside Earls at pace to create a 2 v. 1 on their wingers, both of whom have a history of poor defensive positioning and it showed. Zebo was caught narrow and Murphy was caught deep.

D'Arcy was poor for Ireland in the 6 Nations because he was incapable of contributing where he was being asked. The opposite was true last night for both him and O'Driscoll.

durkadurka · 01-04-2012 5:19pm

What did people think of Luke last night. I was frustrated at his unwillingness to pass. He kept trying to go for glory. Running through the middle from inside his 22.
Seemed to be trying too hard.

.ak · 01-04-2012 5:24pm

durkadurka wrote: »

What did people think of Luke last night. I was frustrated at his unwillingness to pass. He kept trying to go for glory. Running through the middle from inside his 22.
Seemed to be trying too hard.

I wouldn't say 'going for glory' by running into contact from his own 22. However, Fitz's offload has come off well over the past while, and my only thought is that was team orders - straighten up, take the ball to ground, deliver ball, rinse and repeat until some gaps opened up. Couple of times I would've liked to see him put a grubber through, and a couple of times he forced his game by coming onto the ball too hot, but other than that he was solid. Wasn't exactly a game for wingers to stand out... I thought he looked hungry in the first half. I was there, so can't comment, but the second almost Kearney try was a beautiful piece of opertunistic play - I'm gonna watch the replay, but it looked to me he kept it in?

GerM · 01-04-2012 5:26pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

No, even the headline on the Munster website is fairly depressing for a Munster fan.

In that article, is DOC obscuring someone or is that actually MOD's effort at a lift?!

Pro12: Munster vs Leinster, Sat 31 March 7:30pm, Live on RTÉ2

Comments