Eng-er-land Euro2012 squad

Jesus Wept · 21-05-2012 5:11pm

Chips Ahoy wrote: »

Check out ITV's ad for the euros, haha i love how they build themselves up for a giant fall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UmvGSzCTE

They are taking the piss out of themselves, no?

Ormus · 21-05-2012 5:15pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Jon Obi Mikel has more skill for controlling the ball in close to his body and turning on it when under pressure than any of the central midfielders England are bringing with him. That is an essential skill to have in CM at this level.

''Being good'' is meaningless if you don't define what the player is good at.

He defends well enough. Certainly well enough that a partnership of him and one of the more robust English CMs would be solid defensively.

No I haven't missed your point. You are trying to argue that size and strength would make up for a deficit of skill in central midfield. That is wrong.

Yes of course it's a non-sequitur, you are making it look like you think the better attacking is part of what makes him play DM better. You followed ''Gerrard is a more direct and attacking player than Britton.'' immediately with ''I
think he would be better at playing the defensive midfield role.'' Those two statements don't follow - they are non sequiturs.

Keep your opinion.

"Being good" - I'm pretty sure he meant at football.

Please quote the part where I said that size and strength make up for a deficit of skill. Otherwise be big enough to admit that I didn't. You must be thinking of the Sacchi quote some other guy put up about positioning and skill making up for a deficit of power.

It's not a non-sequitur. Where did I say one was because of the other? Honestly I think you just skim read what I say. You need to give it another go. You seem to think I said "Gerrard is a more direct and attacking player and so he would be better at playing the defensive midfield role". That would be a non-sequitur. I did not say that.

I'm not gonna keep correcting your mistakes for you.

kitakyushu · 21-05-2012 5:17pm

Chips Ahoy wrote: »

Check out ITV's ad for the euros, haha i love how they build themselves up for a giant fall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UmvGSzCTE

Haha, that's the best bit of build-up I've seen so far for Euro 2012. Rather than building-up the England team, if anything, the point of the ad is to show how bad England are and how the just keep flopping time after time after time.

Also compare it to the Carlsberg Ireland 2002 ad where even in his dreams McAteer only had us winning games 1-0 1-0 1-0. That promo by comparison goes all-out into the ridiculous and is all the better for it (552 games undefeated

).

KerranJast · 21-05-2012 5:20pm

Chips Ahoy wrote: »

Check out ITV's ad for the euros, haha i love how they build themselves up for a giant fall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7UmvGSzCTE

That's actually pretty funny.

Nobody English I know, nor any of the reputable journos over there, give them much of a chance.

This is probably going to be the most underhyped English side since Euro2000 and surprisingly they actually could go further than normal if they approach the tournament in the right way.

G.K. · 21-05-2012 5:21pm

England will go out in the group stages. I'll call it now.

kitakyushu · 21-05-2012 5:27pm

KerranJast wrote: »

This is probably going to be the most underhyped English side since Euro2000

Anyone watching that recent BBC "Englands worst XI" program?

Graham Taylor surely had the worst England panel to pick from. Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer etc. Add on top of that Gazza and Shearer injured for a lot of it and Hodgson almost has an embarrassment of riches this time round by comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFncYUs1WFU

Chips Ahoy · 21-05-2012 5:28pm

England should just play to there strengths and do the whole kick and rush football. Imagine a forward line with Carroll and Crouch, with plenty of crosses they could cause a lot of top defenses serious trouble and they have had always good wingers to help this game plan.

This way they could bypass there weakest position central midfield.

DDC1990 · 21-05-2012 5:28pm

G.K. wrote: »

England will go out in the group stages. I'll call it now.

6/4 on PP.

They won't win a game. Draw with Sweden and Ukraine, Lose to France.

Well unless they play Oxlade Chamberlain, I mean, he dominated Pirlo and Ambrosini so much, it was as if they were invisible in the Emerates.

KerranJast · 21-05-2012 5:31pm

I could see them getting 5 points. Win + draw v Sweden/Ukraine, draw with France.
It'll probably be a Chelsea back three of Cole, Terry & Cahill plus Jones at RB which is a fairly solid unit.

DDC1990 · 21-05-2012 5:32pm

KerranJast wrote: »

I could see them getting 5 points. Win + draw v Sweden/Ukraine, draw with France.
It'll probably be a Chelsea back three of Cole, Terry & Cahill plus Jones at RB which is a fairly solid unit.

Jones at RB over Johnson?

KerranJast · 21-05-2012 5:36pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Jones at RB over Johnson?

Have you seen Johnson "defending"? It's not pretty

kitakyushu · 21-05-2012 5:38pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Well unless they play Oxlade Chamberlain, I mean, he dominated Pirlo and Ambrosini so much, it was as if they were invisible in the Emerates.

Hogson has big plans for Oxlade Chamberlain at the Euro's. He wants the kid to run rings around Lilian Thuram and Glenn Hysen.

DDC1990 · 21-05-2012 5:40pm

KerranJast wrote: »

Have you seen Johnson "defending"? It's not pretty

2010 called. They want their opinion back.

Johnson was very good this year for Liverpool, still good going forward and worked a lot on his defending.

Phil Jones couldn't cross his legs and is a CB nothing more.

Beefy78 · 21-05-2012 5:46pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Jon Obi Mikel has more skill for controlling the ball in close to his body and turning on it when under pressure than any of the central midfielders England are bringing with him. That is an essential skill to have in CM at this level.

''Being good'' is meaningless if you don't define what the player is good at.

I agree that it's a very important skill. I'd not necessarily agree that it's one that Mikel is notably better at than Gareth Barry, Scott Parker or James Milner are, for all the other flaws in their game.

Pro. F · 21-05-2012 5:57pm

Ormus wrote: »

"Being good" - I'm pretty sure he meant at football.

Obviously he meant at football. I wouldn't have thought that needed clarification. But since you have chosen to point this out completely unnecessarily I will spell it out just for you:

''Being good at football'' is meaningless if you don't define what exactly, in all the skills and attributes in football, the player is good at.

There, are you happy that I wasted my time spelling out this completely unnecessary clarification just for you?

Ormus wrote: »

Please quote the part where I said that size and strength make up for a deficit of skill. Otherwise be big enough to admit that I didn't. You must be thinking of the Sacchi quote some other guy put up about positioning and skill making up for a deficit of power.

I didn't say that you said size and strength make up for a deficit of skill. It is, however, the logical conclusion of your argument, even if you don't realise it yourself.

My argument is that Britton is more skillful at the passing and moving, close control play that is required to keep and use possession in CM. Your responses constantly refers to Gerrards bigger size and strength, directness, big game experience and other such extraneous qualities. Also the special ''just a better player'' type statement which is of course meaningless without qualification.

If you want to change that and categorically state that you think Gerrard is more skillful at the close control, short passing and positional play required for keeping and using possession, go ahead.

Ormus wrote: »

It's not a non-sequitur. Where did I say one was because of the other? Honestly I think you just skim read what I say. You need to give it another go. You seem to think I said "Gerrard is a more direct and attacking player and so he would be better at playing the defensive midfield role". That would be a non-sequitur. I did not say that.

No I don't think you said that. In fact I reproduced exactly what you said. You followed one statement immediately with the other in the middle of an argument as to why you thought that Gerrard would make a better defensive midfielder. The two statements don't follow. They are non-sequiturs. The two sentences don't need to be linked by ''and so'' to be non-sequiturs.

Jax Teller · 22-05-2012 7:28pm

Martin Kelly has been called up now . Did someone pull out ?

Jimmy Iovine · 22-05-2012 7:34pm

Micah Richards must be raging. He can't even get called up for a friendly.

Beefy78 · 22-05-2012 7:58pm

Kelly over Richards makes no sense unless the FA know something that the public don't.

Or they know that Kelly won't be needed for the tournament.

Jimmy Iovine · 22-05-2012 8:02pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

Kelly over Richards makes no sense unless the FA know something that the public don't.

Or they know that Kelly won't be needed for the tournament.

He's returning to Liverpool after the game. Even still it's mad that Richards is overlooked again.

Beefy78 · 22-05-2012 9:28pm

Or Richards has gone on his holidays already. Not sure I'd want to be pulled back from Vegas or Cancun in order to take my place on the bench knowing I won't go to the tournament either way.

Don't get me wrong - if Kelly is ahead of Richards in the pecking order then that is mental. I'm not going to be calling for Hodgson's head yet though.

Kiwi_knock · 22-05-2012 9:39pm

Would not be surprised if it turned out that Richards rejected a call up for the friendly.

bobbysands81 · 23-05-2012 11:27pm

Des wrote: »

such a small time attitude.

do you support an EPL team?

Still can't believe this lame argument.

Jax Teller · 25-05-2012 9:44am

Ruddy out with a broken finger . Butland in

double GG · 25-05-2012 10:47am

Massive shame for Ruddy, had a fantastic season and really deserved it.

Prop Joe · 25-05-2012 12:47pm

Butland,Like there is no other Keeper available ? Stockdale,Carson,Amos,Foster,Harper possibly a dozen more in the Championship ahead of a dude that keeps goal for cheltenham

Jax Teller · 25-05-2012 12:48pm

Prop Joe wrote: »

Butland,Like there is no other Keeper available ? Stockdale,Carson,Amos,Foster,Harper possibly a dozen more in the Championship ahead of a dude that keeps goal for cheltenham

When the squad was announced some goalkeeper blogger said there was at least 31 English goalkeepers playing at a higher level than Butland .

Mad decision

cgpg5 · 25-05-2012 12:50pm

To be fair his chances of making an appearance are as good as nil. If they see him as a good long term prospect no harm bringing him I guess for the experience

POKERKING · 25-05-2012 12:50pm

double GG wrote: »

Massive shame for Ruddy, had a fantastic season and really deserved it.

did he though?or is he just the only other keeper available playing regularly in the premiership? Anytime i seen him he wasn't great at all...

cgpg5 · 25-05-2012 12:54pm

It would be interesting to see the last time England had two players playing outside the top division in their squad, even if they are GK's

kitakyushu · 25-05-2012 12:57pm

cgpg5 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the last time England had two players playing outside the top division in their squad, even if they are GK's

Is Green not technically a prem goalie again as of this time tho?

cgpg5 · 25-05-2012 12:59pm

kitakyushu wrote: »

Is Green not technically a prem goalie again as of this time tho?

Was championship when selected. I know what you mean though!

G.K. · 25-05-2012 1:12pm

Butland will be better in a few years than every single one you named, Prop. Given 3rd choice is unlikely to play it's good experience for the lad.

Jax Teller · 25-05-2012 1:29pm

Bad luck for Ruddy
“@Johnruddy86: Also to everyone who has asked…as if it wasn’t unlucky enough, it IS my ring finger and also my first ever broken bone!”

He is getting married next week

Soby · 25-05-2012 1:51pm

Just read that there ^.Horrible luck

Kiwi_knock · 25-05-2012 2:19pm

Butland has the most potential of any of the other English goalkeepers mentioned. He is the only one, in my opinion, that can provide a long term challenge to Hart. Dave Watson,the Birmingham and England goalkeeping coach, has said that Butland is the best keeper he ever worked with it and he has coached both Hart and Foster. This will be great tournament experience for the lad.

mike65 · 25-05-2012 7:47pm

Ukraine still in the dark ages (so to speak)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/24/alex-oxlade-chamberlain-family-fears

Dempsey · 26-05-2012 1:27am

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Butland has the most potential of any of the other English goalkeepers mentioned. He is the only one, in my opinion, that can provide a long term challenge to Hart. Dave Watson,the Birmingham and England goalkeeping coach, has said that Butland is the best keeper he ever worked with it and he has coached both Hart and Foster. This will be great tournament experience for the lad.

Fraser Forster would have been the England no.2 going into the Euros if he stayed at Norwich and made the improvements in his game that he has done at Celtic.

G.K. · 26-05-2012 9:31am

Roy Hodgson: "You don't have to use short passes, not if you use your big man up front."

I despair.

theteal · 26-05-2012 9:39am

G.K. wrote: »

Roy Hodgson: "You don't have to use short passes, not if you use your big man up front."

I despair.

Jack charlton

_blank_ · 26-05-2012 10:32am

G.K. wrote: »

Roy Hodgson: "You don't have to use short passes, not if you use your big man up front."

I despair.

when did he say this?

G.K. · 26-05-2012 10:37am

In England training the other day.

redzerdrog · 26-05-2012 11:30am

G.K. wrote: »

Roy Hodgson: "You don't have to use short passes, not if you use your big man up front."

I despair.

Daniel Agger feels your pain, i'd say he is still having sleepless nights!

bucketybuck · 26-05-2012 1:38pm

G.K. wrote: »

Roy Hodgson: "You don't have to use short passes, not if you use your big man up front."

I despair.

For the majority of football teams in the modern game I would despair also, but...

Maybe somebody in the FA is an absolute genius, and realises that England simply cannot compete technically with the Spains and Germanys of this world. They can't, and perhaps they shouldn't even try. So they hire Hodgson, and tell him to go old school, kick lumps out of the other team and rain long balls in on Carroll.

Its a losing strategy long term sure, but in one tournament, maybe they could do a Greece. All or nothing, pick a gameplan and stick to it.

Rubbish probably, but you never know.

Dempsey · 26-05-2012 1:44pm

G.K. wrote: »

Roy Hodgson: "You don't have to use short passes, not if you use your big man up front."

I despair.

This would be England sticking to their strengths, whats the problem?

G.K. · 26-05-2012 1:49pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe somebody in the FA is an absolute genius, and realises that England simply cannot compete technically with the Spains and Germanys of this world. They can't, and perhaps they shouldn't even try. So they hire Hodgson, and tell him to go old school, kick lumps out of the other team and rain long balls in on Carroll.

England don't need to compete technically. Just need to defend well and counter attack dynamically (Like Germany does, though slightly more direct and less technical) as opposed to defend deep and lump the ball to Carroll.

VW 1 · 26-05-2012 2:05pm

G.K. wrote: »

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe somebody in the FA is an absolute genius, and realises that England simply cannot compete technically with the Spains and Germanys of this world. They can't, and perhaps they shouldn't even try. So they hire Hodgson, and tell him to go old school, kick lumps out of the other team and rain long balls in on Carroll.

England don't need to compete technically. Just need to defend well and counter attack dynamically (Like Germany does, though slightly more direct and less technical) as opposed to defend deep and lump the ball to Carroll.

For that plan of attack G.K. they should have hired RDM, end of problem.

G.K. · 28-05-2012 12:13am

I have now come to the following conclusion of what the England team should have been (Considering all available players) if we are indeed playing Hodgson's way as shown by the Norway game:

Hart
Richards-Cahill-Terry-Cole
Ox-Britton-Carrick-Young
Welbeck-Rooney

Not focused on ball retention, instead good defensive positioning CM players who can pass the ball at least fairly reliably. I'd love to play Howson over Carrick but I hink Carrick atm is better defensively.

Fast, intelligent wingers who can pass the ball well and shoot themselves.

A forward pair good at breaking with a good relationship.

event · 28-05-2012 1:41am

not too many tacklers in that midfield though

Corholio · 28-05-2012 2:47am

G.K. wrote: »

I have now come to the following conclusion of what the England team should have been (Considering all available players) if we are indeed playing Hodgson's way as shown by the Norway game:

Hart
Richards-Cahill-Terry-Cole
Ox-Britton-Carrick-Young
Welbeck-Rooney

Not focused on ball retention, instead good defensive positioning CM players who can pass the ball at least fairly reliably. I'd love to play Howson over Carrick but I hink Carrick atm is better defensively.

Fast, intelligent wingers who can pass the ball well and shoot themselves.

A forward pair good at breaking with a good relationship.

Don't know why you'd have two midfielders who just sit and pass the ball really. They'd lose pretty much every midfield battle against any of the top teams.

G.K. · 28-05-2012 7:31am

That's what Hodgson's gunning for, not me.

Positioning > Everything else

Eng-er-land Euro2012 squad

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