irish defence force dpm

irishintrested · 13-06-2008 2:15am #1

does any one kno where i can buy and irish dpm/bdu uniform ive been looking for the past three days contstantly but have only found british and others

Captain Chaos · 13-06-2008 2:25am

Its against the law for civilians to own or wear current Irish Defence Forces DPM. You can buy and wear the old style DPMs however.

irishintrested · 13-06-2008 2:47am

what about for us citizens and also is there somewhere i could buy the curent dpm or the old one

cushtac · 13-06-2008 3:14am

You might get some on eBay.

Witcher · 13-06-2008 3:26am

irishintrested wrote: »

what about for us citizens and also is there somewhere i could buy the curent dpm or the old one

you've just been told its illegal

doesnt matter what nationality you are its illegal to wear here, unless you on

official duty

minidazzler · 13-06-2008 8:12am

cushtac wrote: »

You might get some on eBay.

I don;t recommend it,
A) Because its Illegal,
B)Because it would cost about €400 for the hole uniform.

If you don;t Mind me asking OP Why do you wnat it?

the GALL · 13-06-2008 9:16am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Its against the law for civilians to own or wear current Irish Defence Forces DPM. You can buy and wear the old style DPMs however.

what's the old style dpm look like?

minidazzler · 13-06-2008 9:35am

the GALL wrote: »

what's the old style dpm look like?

It wasn't DPM. More of a BDU. I cant remember exactly but if you Google FCA you will probably find some (nearly) Modern pics as they only went out of service in the RDF in 2003.

Donny5 · 13-06-2008 9:38am

the GALL wrote: »

what's the old style dpm look like?

I think he means the OGs.

the GALL · 13-06-2008 9:39am

It was a drab oliven/green, the defence forces kept it that way so the IRA wouldn't have a problem with target recogniton.
ogs, what's og's?

Donny5 · 13-06-2008 9:42am

the GALL wrote: »

It was a drab oliven/green, the defence forces kept it that way so the IRA wouldn't have a problem with target recogniton.
ogs, what's og's?

OGs is Olive Green, as you said. Here's a picture of fellas from the 20th in the OGs:

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-06-2008 10:25am

The old OD working dress was the best working dress uniform we'd had.

For most, the current DPM uniform is ill fitting, heavy and uncomfortable.

Donny5 · 13-06-2008 12:10pm

Mairt wrote: »

The old OD working dress was the best working dress uniform we'd had.

Except when wet.

the GALL · 13-06-2008 1:06pm

not at all the dpm uniform is cut for women

kermit_ie · 13-06-2008 8:18pm

cushtac wrote: »

You might get some on eBay.

US Citizens are also civilians...

cushtac · 15-06-2008 1:39am

kermit_ie wrote: »

US Citizens are also civilians...

Civilians who live outside the jurisdiction.

Tribunius · 15-06-2008 2:02am

Look you can get a hold of it but it won't be easy therefore it won't be cheap. (And no before anyone gets any ideas I'm not offering)

It is rare because as has been mentioned the Irish DF does not sell surplus equipment. So any you do come across is stolen.

And just to correct a previous poster the DPM uniform was introduced into the then FCA in 2001.

the GALL · 19-06-2008 7:56pm

there's a shirt on E-BAY at the moment

cp251 · 22-06-2008 1:29pm

Now I know it's illegal to wear current issue DPM uniform items. But is it illegal to wear a garment that merely copies the pattern. For the sake of example; a T-shirt? Or even a jacket cut in a similar way to the current issue with a very similar but not quite the same camouflage pattern?

I doubt it somehow!

minidazzler · 22-06-2008 2:18pm

AFAIK, the pattern is Copyrighted. So while not illegal to weat per se, it would be illegal to produce.

You can get the Smocks In different Cammo patterns I think, Is the Brit Smock the same as out one????

Local-womanizer · 24-06-2008 11:36pm

I thought it was only illegal if it has the tri-colour on the arm?

kermit_ie · 24-06-2008 11:42pm

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I thought it was only illegal if it has the tri-colour on the arm?

untrue.

ex_infantry man · 27-06-2008 9:50pm

lads its like goin out in a garda uniform this act is illegal as you would be inpersonating a garda same with irish dpm impersonating a soldier of the irish df would come under this also

Oilrig · 27-06-2008 11:13pm

Donny 5,

I'm really curious as to when/where that pic was taken... it looks like IRL reserve with the French Famas rifle?

Oilrig · 27-06-2008 11:18pm

"For most, the current DPM uniform is ill fitting, heavy and uncomfortable"

Similar to the old issue system, get issued, get adjusted and wear - quit moaning.

Motto: whatever it takes. When you signed up, you signed up, now get the job done.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 27-06-2008 11:39pm

Oilrig wrote: »

"For most, the current DPM uniform is ill fitting, heavy and uncomfortable"

Similar to the old issue system, get issued, get adjusted and wear - quit moaning.

Motto: whatever it takes. When you signed up, you signed up, now get the job done.

If by "get it adjusted" you mean 'have it tailored' well then you should be made aware that its unlawful to have the DPM uniform tailored.

Its made as it is (ill fitting for the most part) for a reason. As its intended as a layered system if you have the pants tailored you won't be able to wear the issued terminal underwear with them, likewise the shirts, tailor those and you won't get the 'norgie' to fit etc.

Irish_Army01 · 28-06-2008 12:20am

Oilrig wrote: »

Donny 5,

I'm really curious as to when/where that pic was taken... it looks like IRL reserve with the French Famas rifle?

Yup, taken many yrs ago.. In France around 89.

trellheim · 03-07-2008 10:00am

that's half my recruit section in that picture. Couldn't go on the long march to Paris as I had to work. Jaysus that's 19 years ago now.

Nam_Man · 07-07-2008 12:14am

Donny5 wrote: »

OGs is Olive Green, as you said. Here's a picture of fellas from the 20th in the OGs:

Classic pic ... Them where the days ...

A lots of Irish DPM gear on ebay lately ... Some bloke in the UK even sold a whole uniform!!

And Irish desert shirts went for €255+

Crazy ...

bq300466 · 01-06-2012 11:08pm

Hi there, can anyone tell me if I can get a set of enamel ribbons made up for my uniform? Thanks...Brian!

tac foley · 02-06-2012 9:49am

I'm beginning to get a little concerned about the IDF wannabes on this thread. Surely someone who has IDF-issued medals would know where to get medal ribbons?

tac

Praetorian Saighdiuir · 03-06-2012 6:38pm

bq300466 wrote: »

Hi there, can anyone tell me if I can get a set of enamel ribbons made up for my uniform? Thanks...Brian!

Im looking to get these done myself, if you have any luck giz a PM.

tac foley wrote: »

I'm beginning to get a little concerned about the IDF wannabes on this thread. Surely someone who has IDF-issued medals would know where to get medal ribbons?

tac

I know where to get ribbons alright

Just dont know where to get the ribbons in emamel form! They are not too common.

SIRREX · 03-06-2012 11:00pm

benwavner wrote: »

Just dont know where to get the ribbons in emamel form! They are not too common.

The only time I've seen Irish ribbons in enamel form, they were done on overseas missions. The Mingi Men can get you anything made, for a price!

goldie fish · 04-06-2012 9:42am

Why would you want them?

Mr. Tezza · 11-06-2012 7:46pm

why would you want a medal for something you didn't do? makes no sense to me, your only misleading yourself and others around you, similarly why wold you want to set of irish defence forces DPMs? Its a copyrighted colour/pattern and is only accessible to members of the defence forces through their respective CQ afaik. To those of you buying/selling the uniform on ebay to the best of my knowledge its ILLEGAL on two counts.

1) it is a copyrighted pattern and cannot be redistributed without authorisation.
2) it is Illegal to impersonate a member of the Irish defence forces.

I'd be glad if anyone on here could correct me if anything I have said is incorrect...

Praetorian Saighdiuir · 11-06-2012 9:34pm

Mr. Tezza wrote: »

why would you want a medal for something you didn't do? makes no sense to me, your only misleading yourself and others around you, similarly why wold you want to set of irish defence forces DPMs? Its a copyrighted colour/pattern and is only accessible to members of the defence forces through their respective CQ afaik. To those of you buying/selling the uniform on ebay to the best of my knowledge its ILLEGAL on two counts.

1) it is a copyrighted pattern and cannot be redistributed without authorisation.
2) it is Illegal to impersonate a member of the Irish defence forces.

I'd be glad if anyone on here could correct me if anything I have said is incorrect...

I think you are right

se conman · 12-06-2012 9:31pm

It goes a bit deeper than that , on my last reading , it is illegal to wear ANY military uniform of ANY country in Ireland without permission. That would mean it is illegal to wear any surplus. I will have a look for the link.

Mr. Tezza · 13-06-2012 1:40pm

se conman wrote: »

It goes a bit deeper than that , on my last reading , it is illegal to wear ANY military uniform of ANY country in Ireland without permission. That would mean it is illegal to wear any surplus. I will have a look for the link.

Thats interesting, so all the people going around in their airsoft "loadouts" mimicing other military countries are actually doing so illegally? never heard of that but I do know about the whole Irish Defence Force DPM being copyright so that can't be worn, never thought of it being extended to other military uniforms because they are available to the civilian market.

se conman · 13-06-2012 2:03pm

http://www.irishstatuebook.ie/1954/en/act/pub/0018/print.html#sec157
Go to sections 264 & 317.
There may be an up-dated version but I couldn't find one.

Tabnabs · 13-06-2012 2:53pm

Link fails to work.

264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

(3) In this section the word “uniform” includes any distinctive part of a uniform.

317.—(1) No person shall, save with the consent in writing of a Minister of State, enter or land in the State while wearing any foreign uniform.

(2) No person shall, save with the consent in writing of a Minister of State, go into any public place in the State while wearing any foreign uniform.

(3) A Minister of State may from time to time direct that subsections (1) and (2) of this section shall not during a specified period apply in respect of any particular class (defined in such manner as he thinks fit) of persons, and in that case the said subsections shall not apply during that period in respect of that class of persons.

(4) Every person who contravenes (by act or omission) any provision in subsections (1) or (2) of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty-five pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months.

(5) Nothing in this section shall restrict, or apply in respect of, the wearing of any uniform by the head of any diplomatic mission duly accredited to the State or by any member of the diplomatic staff of such mission whose appointment as such has been officially notified to the Minister for External Affairs or who is otherwise entitled to diplomatic immunities.

(6) Nothing in this section shall restrict, or apply in respect of, the wearing of any foreign uniform in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

(7) In this section—

the expression “foreign uniform” means the uniform of any armed force of any other State whether operating by land, sea or air, and includes any distinctive part of any such uniform;

the expression “public place” includes any street, road, park or other similar place, and also any place or building to which the public have access on payment of a charge for admission.

Captain Chaos · 13-06-2012 2:58pm

So essentially mil sim airsoft is illegal in this country unless you wear SWAT gear.
It's been going on for 5 years and there are many, many shops here selling surplus gear. How come they are not closed down. There must be a massive grey area in this law.

Donny5 · 13-06-2012 3:02pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

So essentially mil sim airsoft is illegal in this country unless you wear SWAT gear.
It's been going on for 5 years and there are many, many shops here selling surplus gear. How come they are not closed down. There must be a massive grey area in this law.

The law is ambiguous at best. More importantly, no-ones cares in the slightest. The DPP would laugh at the Gardaí if they sent in a file because a guy dressed like a WW2 stormtrooper running around with a guy dressed like a U.S. Marine from Ramadi.

se conman · 13-06-2012 3:09pm

That is it exactly , a law from a different era not being policed. It is outdated but not worth the hassle of updating.

Dogwatch · 13-06-2012 3:46pm

I think this is the important bit of this leglislation

"any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, "

se conman · 13-06-2012 3:50pm

The problem is the date , 1954 , that covers OD also. Are we off topic or is this relevant ?

se conman · 13-06-2012 3:58pm

I am not PDF or RDF and from my reading it is equally as illegal to wear any dpm as it is to wear Irish dpm , so the question I ask is , do we just choose which laws to up-hold ?

Local-womanizer · 13-06-2012 4:10pm

se conman wrote: »

I am not PDF or RDF and from my reading it is equally as illegal to wear any dpm as it is to wear Irish dpm , so the question I ask is , do we just choose which laws to up-hold ?

Well yes and no, why would the guards look to waste their time chasing a prosecution of an air softer running around a field wearing us marine uniform?

Now if a person put on said uniform and conducted a vehicle checkpoint or try to gain entry to a government building then they would be in bother.

I'm sure the state will use its discretion in the application of the law.

Donny5 · 13-06-2012 5:05pm

se conman wrote: »

I am not PDF or RDF and from my reading it is equally as illegal to wear any dpm as it is to wear Irish dpm , so the question I ask is , do we just choose which laws to up-hold ?

That's is your reading, but not mine. DPM does not a uniform make.

goldie fish · 13-06-2012 7:41pm

(6) Nothing in this section shall restrict, or apply in respect of, the wearing of any foreign uniform in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

You could say airsoft is a dramatic representation or performance of sorts.
I mean nobody believes they are for real.

Morpheus · 14-06-2012 9:17am

Quality GF

Sure theyre only "playing" at soldiers! no harm there

OzCam · 17-06-2012 9:12pm

Morphéus wrote: »

Sure theyre only "playing" at soldiers! no harm there

Don't worry. We're quite aware of that. Most of us, anyway.

There are three separate issues:
1. DF uniforms remain the property of the Minister of Defence. Therefore any uniform in the possession of anyone not legally entitled to have it is technically stolen property.
2. Under DF regs, the uniform is only to be worn on duty, when travelling to or from duty, and only in it's entirety.
3. Uniforms of a "foreign power" may only be worn in public with the permission in writing (including date, time and place) of the Minister for Foreign affairs.

Two minor points: there doesn't seem to be a definition of "uniform". I don't know whether it's been established in court whether a shirt/smock & trousers without any insignia qualifies as a uniform. However, the Guards still have the discretion to intervene if something that looks like a uniform might cause a problem in public, under the Public Order laws. It used to be called "Conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace", I don't know what it's called these days.

Most responsible airsoft sites discourage players from turning up in utilities, and all sites that I know of prohibit wearing of Irish DPM.

This issue has been discussed in detail several times in the Airsoft forum. Check there if you need citations for the relevant laws and regulations.

irish defence force dpm

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