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New Expanion Vessel

  • 04-04-2012 8:36pm
    #1
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭


    Totally out of my depth here so posting on Boards for some guidance, please.

    I had been having boiler problems with it not lighting or else going out in a matter of minutes . . . resulting in ni hot mwater in the morning!! I called my usual plumber who came over, gave it a service and basically said the expansion vessel was shot and the system was over pressurising but wait and see how it operated thereafter.

    For the next couple of weeks it seemed to work fine but the last 2 days, perhaps the cold weather and increased heating demands are no mere coincidence, it has been problematic again and has again been cutting out quickly but only when it has been on for a considerable period.

    The local plumber again called over today and said the expansion vessel was not functioning and that I could place another vessel in the attic that would in effect replace it or . . . . . I could replace the boiler.

    To replace the vessel he quoted €300 or €2,350 for a new boiler. He seemed to indicate that even with a new expansion vessel the system may be on it last legs which surprised me as the house is little more than 10 years old.

    My real question, having taken a lomg time to get there is should I merely replace the expansion vessel and is the quoted price reasonable or should I replace the boiler?

    Cheers for any advice on this subject.


Comments

  • #2
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    I am guessing the expansion vessel is in the boiler. What make of boiler is it.

    Can you see a big red balloon type object outside your boiler usually in the hot press.


  • #3
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Replace Vessel €300 euros , someone jump in and correct me but isnt a small vessel only €20 or so ????

    And if the system is sealed already like it sounds it is , its not a big job really, as long as he doesnt have to drain down the system fully its a job which would take a few hours Max.
    I would expect the charge to be 150 give or take depending on how easy it is to do it and is there anything additional to do.


  • #4
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Hey the boiler is a Ferroli Tempra and yes the expansion vessel is in the boiler.

    There is no additional expansion vessel.


  • #5
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    The texted quote I received included for "to drain and section the heating pipework in hot press, to supply and install new expansion vessel and pipework, recommission and test."

    I should add this fella has always sorted me before and seems completely trustworthy.


  • #6
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    thedavman009 wrote: »
    Hey the boiler is a Ferroli Tempra and yes the expansion vessel is in the boiler.

    There is no additional expansion vessel.

    I replaced a Ferroli Tempra expansion vessel a couple of weeks ago. The part cost €85 + VAT. Ferroli parts are notoriously expensive. You could, of course, install a separate expansion vessel on the system for about €25 + VAT. Plus labour naturally!


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  • #7
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Cheers Shane,

    It would seem given the quote was for a separate exapnsion vessel to be fitted that there is a large amount of labour included?


  • #8
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    €300 is way too much to change a standard vessel.
    If installing a replacement in the boiler, the system does not have to be drained down, just the boiler itself. A much faster swapover.


  • #9
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Sorry I was not clear, the quote was for a separate expansion vessel to be fitted in the hot press.


  • #10
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    It still would not come to €300. The parts cost should not cost more than €50. For that I would stick in a Ferroli one, no drain down, less labour. If the system has an automatic filling valve rather than a filling loop, I would possibly change this or lock it closed.

    If the system is a large system, it may well need a larger vessel than the boiler one.


  • #11
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Cheers Shane,

    What would be a reasonable price?


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  • #12
    gdavis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭gdavis


    to be honest i think ur bein fleeced.expansion vessel 20 euros max,couple of fittings 20 euro max,if in hot press more than likely not much draining down,for20 euro u can buy a freezer kit and no drain down,job done in half hour


  • #13
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Depends on which job. Fitting to boiler will be a very quick job, less than an hour, including the tea break, and fitting one upstairs will be a very partial drain down so again perhaps 1 - 2 hours + tea break!

    Either should not be more than €200, even less. The one I done, I charged €75 labour + parts.


  • #14
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Thanks gdavis,

    I hate to think that he is fleecing me (we always got along well etc.) but it seems to be the growing consensus unfortunately. Suprisingly when he recently services the boiler he charged €90 which seemed fair.

    Hmm, now what to say when I speak to him tomorrow?! The last thing I want to do is rob the guy but nor do I want to be robbed.

    What is a fair price?

    Has he over specced the job?

    Once again thanks for all feedback. I cannot thank enough.


  • #15
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Just saw your spot Shane007, we posted at same time, thanks.


  • #16
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    It just dawned on me is the quote on the high side as it includes an hour playing around today to sort the prob?

    Or should the prob have been obvious from the service?


  • #17
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    thedavman009 wrote: »
    It just dawned on me is the quote on the high side as it includes an hour playing around today to sort the prob?

    Or should the prob have been obvious from the service?

    The price might include today too, he probably recharged the vessel when serviced and that's why it worked for a while but the diaphragm must be knackered. A Tempra's vessel is in the boiler on the side and easy to get at so I would go for that instead of the hot press.


  • #18
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    Sorry to be resurecting an old thread but unfortunately my plumber has gone to ground and consequently the expansion vessel has not been replaced. Instead we have used the immersion to heat water.

    I spoke with another plumber today and explained the problem, given the weather I would like to be able to use the heating. I advised that the system needed a new expansion vessel and that it could be fitted to the boiler. I told him about the previous plumber and that he wanted to fit a replacement in the hot press.

    The new plumber queried if the previous plumber wanted to fit and additional expansion vessel as there were so many radiotors in the house - 10 rads in house and it needed more expansion.

    Does this make sense? Should I just reques that the vessel is replaced in the boiler or may it need an additional vessel?

    Thanks


  • #19
    RacingSilver
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭RacingSilver


    No technical advice but a few months ago, I was told that the existing expansion vessel was knackered. So, I go an external one fitted in a press under the boiler as this was much cheaper than replacing the existing one. All for 165 euro. Seemed a reasonable price at the time.


  • #20
    thedavman009
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭thedavman009


    That is a big price difference to what I was quoted for an external vessel! Hmmm . .

    Cheers for responding.


  • #21
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    RacingSilver wrote: »
    No technical advice but a few months ago, I was told that the existing expansion vessel was knackered. So, I go an external one fitted in a press under the boiler as this was much cheaper than replacing the existing one. All for 165 euro. Seemed a reasonable price at the time.

    Was that cash or on the books?


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  • #22
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    thedavman009 wrote: »
    Sorry to be resurecting an old thread but unfortunately my plumber has gone to ground and consequently the expansion vessel has not been replaced. Instead we have used the immersion to heat water.

    I spoke with another plumber today and explained the problem, given the weather I would like to be able to use the heating. I advised that the system needed a new expansion vessel and that it could be fitted to the boiler. I told him about the previous plumber and that he wanted to fit a replacement in the hot press.

    The new plumber queried if the previous plumber wanted to fit and additional expansion vessel as there were so many radiotors in the house - 10 rads in house and it needed more expansion.

    Does this make sense? Should I just reques that the vessel is replaced in the boiler or may it need an additional vessel?

    Thanks

    If I was putting an external vessel into a normal sized house up to 10 rads I would install a 12L vessel. An 8l vessel is a little on the small side.


  • #23
    RacingSilver
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭RacingSilver


    JohnnieK wrote: »
    Was that cash or on the books?

    On the books.


  • #24
    JohnnieK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭JohnnieK


    RacingSilver wrote: »
    JohnnieK wrote: »
    Was that cash or on the books?

    On the books.
    that's a fair enough price. Some are easy and some are hard and the price should reflect this.


  • #25
    mishoo666
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭mishoo666


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Depends on which job. Fitting to boiler will be a very quick job, less than an hour, including the tea break, and fitting one upstairs will be a very partial drain down so again perhaps 1 - 2 hours + tea break!

    Either should not be more than €200, even less. The one I done, I charged €75 labour + parts.

    Hi Shane - any chance you can change a leaky expansion vessel in the greystones area??? Urgent pls!!!:(


  • #26
    mishoo666
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭mishoo666


    Hi Shane - any chance you can change a leaky expansion vessel in the greystones area??? Urgent pls!!!:(


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