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boiler pressure and servicing?

  • 22-10-2013 12:59am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭


    Two things, firstly, I've been keeping an eye on the boiler pressure for a while,
    The pressure originally dropped down to around .7bar when cold gradually and around 1.2-1.3 when hot. I could see no sign of a leak anywhere. I had thought Id a weep at the pump but couldnt really see it anymore, I was recommended a liquid leak repair, put that into the heating and let it do its thing.

    Few weeks back I operated the manual valve to shut off the rads as I just needed hot water, the pressure dropped off to nothing in a few hours.

    I thought this suggested there was an airlock or pocket trapped somewhere? and hoped it wasnt a big leak opening up somewhere, still no signs of a leak though.

    So I bled off small bit of air at rads but not much and a manual bleed beside the tank, repressurised to 1 bar, after a while pressure was hovering between .7 and .8 cold,
    but after a few weeks its now at .9bar cold, I havent pressurised it again, so its steadily increased over a few weeks on its own?
    It seems to have stabilised at that, should I top it off to 1bar cold?


    Secondly, Im also looking to get an idea how to find an RGi for a service, I checked Rgii.ie, but not sure how I determine who is a good service person? my boiler is not a condensing boiler so I dont think its complicated, I came across one guy who was listed in my locality on rgii.ie before and I wasnt happy with him/his work, few years back, I saw his name recently on the site and his van on the road but cant see him on the list now?? I dont know if that means something.
    But Im not sure who I can trust off the list anyway, as Ive heard rumblings here even about some rgi's, how do I know who Im getting knows their stuff or is prepared to do a proper job?, without knowing this, Id reverted to bord gais but I feel its a bit dear. I dont know what I'll be expecting to pay a local registered guy either though.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Pressure issue could be boiler expansion vessel related. You can test this by pressurising the system to 1.0 bar. Turn off the flow & return pipes below the boiler. Leave off for 24 hours. Open valves & if pressure drops then you have a leak on the heating system external to the boiler.

    Also ensure that the fill valve is actually fully off.

    With regard to a service, if you post your locality, there are some very good service guys here that could be recommended to you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Pressure issue could be boiler expansion vessel related. You can test this by pressurising the system to 1.0 bar. Turn off the flow & return pipes below the boiler. Leave off for 24 hours. Open valves & if pressure drops then you have a leak on the heating system external to the boiler.

    Also ensure that the fill valve is actually fully off.

    With regard to a service, if you post your locality, there are some very good service guys here that could be recommended to you.

    I'll look into the pressure thing,
    I dont actually want to get it serviced right now unless this pressure issue doesnt go away, but Im wondering is .9bar ok, it seems to work otherwise (fingers crossed), my bills havent been high but the usage isn't as much as last year.
    I'm mostly planning on a service more to tell me how efficient it is (or isn't) and if there are any flue gases results that point to anything in their values, than the cleaning as Im sure its clean, but I aim to get those things done in spring when the weathers better, I probably jumped the gun looking for someone, trying to determine how I get a good person off the list but by all means pm me? Im in West Dublin.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 williewarmer


    cerastes wrote: »
    Two things, firstly, I've been keeping an eye on the boiler pressure for a while,
    The pressure originally dropped down to around .7bar when cold gradually and around 1.2-1.3 when hot. I could see no sign of a leak anywhere. I had thought Id a weep at the pump but couldnt really see it anymore, I was recommended a liquid leak repair, put that into the heating and let it do its thing.

    Few weeks back I operated the manual valve to shut off the rads as I just needed hot water, the pressure dropped off to nothing in a few hours.

    I thought this suggested there was an airlock or pocket trapped somewhere? and hoped it wasnt a big leak opening up somewhere, still no signs of a leak though.

    So I bled off small bit of air at rads but not much and a manual bleed beside the tank, repressurised to 1 bar, after a while pressure was hovering between .7 and .8 cold,
    but after a few weeks its now at .9bar cold, I havent pressurised it again, so its steadily increased over a few weeks on its own?
    It seems to have stabilised at that, should I top it off to 1bar cold?


    Secondly, Im also looking to get an idea how to find an RGi for a service, I checked Rgii.ie, but not sure how I determine who is a good service person? my boiler is not a condensing boiler so I dont think its complicated, I came across one guy who was listed in my locality on rgii.ie before and I wasnt happy with him/his work, few years back, I saw his name recently on the site and his van on the road but cant see him on the list now?? I dont know if that means something.
    But Im not sure who I can trust off the list anyway, as Ive heard rumblings here even about some rgi's, how do I know who Im getting knows their stuff or is prepared to do a proper job?, without knowing this, Id reverted to bord gais but I feel its a bit dear. I dont know what I'll be expecting to pay a local registered guy either though.
    i had to delete? not getting into the theory of pressure.

    id say its expansion vessell. read my last post for rgii recomendations in the chevron training thread. plus ask what your getting for a service. some provide the minimum. a saftey check.they call it a service. so they do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    is the property ground floor, ground floor and 1st or with attic conversion?

    id say its expansion vessell. read my last post for rgii recomendations. plus ask what your getting for a service. some provide the minimum. a saftey check. call it a service. so they do.

    The pressure expansion vessel was replaced about under a year ago, I should have said that, Im not sure why it wasnt up to pressure since then until I repressurised it though. It hadnt been in much use over the summer either but I think it was low from earlier in the year.
    This makes me think the leak might have been elsewhere as the pressure isnt reducing now its going slightly up and staying there (fingers crossed) and Id used the leak fixing liquid but that was more recent. Thats why Im thinking of just bumping up the pressure to 1bar.

    Another thing I noticed was the rad summer valve, its manual, is also new from last year, I tried to turn it off only the other day (no change/drop in pressure that time) and it was wedged open solid, had to put some steady pressure on it to get to start moving to close it shut, unless that was the leak fixing liquid settling in cavities.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 williewarmer


    cerastes wrote: »
    The pressure expansion vessel was replaced about under a year ago, I should have said that, Im not sure why it wasnt up to pressure since then until I repressurised it though. It hadnt been in much use over the summer either but I think it was low from earlier in the year.
    This makes me think the leak might have been elsewhere as the pressure isnt reducing now (fingers crossed) and Id used the leak fixing liquid but that was more recent.
    time the pressure drop. the system drop might just be from an automatic air valve or similar.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    time the pressure drop. the system might just be from an automatic air valve or similar.

    I'll time it if I can, but its not dropping now, it actually went up and stayed there, just not to 1 bar. When it went down it took a few hours that I noticed the time it dropped,that was the second last time I operated the rad valve closed, I cant understand why it dropped to zero then though. The last time, I just had difficulty closing the rad summer valve.
    When it dropped, I was concerned Id forced all the flow through the coil and that the pressure had opened up a leak internally and that Id be replacing the tank coil or the whole tank.
    Im beginning to suspect the leak fluid did its job
    Im still confused though, 2 years ago a small leak stain appeared on the kitchen ceiling and then dried up? its near but not under the hot press and I wasnt certain if this was a leak from somewhere else running down the outside of the pipe or at a join above the ceiling, it went away and I didnt really give it too much thought, just to check every now and again that it didnt start again.

    If the pressure thing doesnt resolve, I'll get the service done sooner, but I think Im overlapping the year already, Im just not sure of the quality of what I got done recently in the last few years, except for one. The last 2 years seem to be getting stuff done a lot on the heating.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 williewarmer


    cerastes wrote: »
    I'll time it if I can, but its not dropping now, it actually went up and stayed there, just not to 1 bar. When it went down it took a few hours that I noticed the time it dropped,that was the second last time I operated the rad valve closed, I cant understand why it dropped to zero then though. The last time, I just had difficulty closing the rad summer valve.
    When it dropped, I was concerned Id forced all the flow through the coil and that the pressure had opened up a leak internally and that Id be replacing the tank coil or the whole tank.
    Im beginning to suspect the leak fluid did its job
    Im still confused though, 2 years ago a small leak stain appeared on the kitchen ceiling and then dried up? its near but not under the hot press and I wasnt certain if this was a leak from somewhere else running down the outside of the pipe or at a join above the ceiling, it went away and I didnt really give it too much thought, just to check every now and again that it didnt start again.

    If the pressure thing doesnt resolve, I'll get the service done sooner, but I think Im overlapping the year already, Im just not sure of the quality of what I got done recently in the last few years, except for one. The last 2 years seem to be getting stuff done a lot on the heating.
    theres your answer ......forced all the flow through the coil and that the pressure had opened up a leak internally. you are diverting air. nothing major. close the dust cap on the automatic air valves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 joegaynor


    hi im looking for some advice ive got a grant boiler and recently the burner was giving problems, not igniting so I took it off and brought it to a guy I know who replaced the nozzle and some other part for me. when I went to reconnect the burner I noticed there was water in the burning chamber?( in behind where the burner sits, not sure if that is the name for it) anyway I thought my boiler was leaking so I cleaned out the water and some sludge on the bottom of this chamber and reconnected the burner, bled the oil line, fired it up and everything seemed fine. I wanted to keep an eye out for a leak after finding water in behind the burner ( wasn't sure if it was rain water or a leak ) so let it run for about 20 mins or so and as the boiler reached a good temperature noticed water coming from the bottom of the boiler, the hotter it got the more water leaked ( hot water ). I turned off the boiler and within 20 or 30 secs the leaking stopped. I let the boiler cool over night and removed the burner again to see if there was water behind it again but it seemed as dry as I left it. just wondering if the boiler is knackered or if there is anything else it could be? also the pressure hasn't dropped its at 1 bar cold and about 1.2 hot. the guy who fixed my burner would usually have a look at it for me but has just gone on holiday for 2 weeks! just find it strange that it only leaks when its hot? any advice would be greatly appreciated


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Boiler leaking I'm afraid. It's showing up whilst hot as metal expands when heated so when boiler is hot, the crack or pinhole is opening enough to allow water through.

    Depending upon where it is, it could most likely be welded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 joegaynor


    thanks shane that's what I was afraid of. think ill strip it down tomorrow and see if I can locate the leak thanks for the help


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    joegaynor wrote: »
    hi im looking for some advice ive got a grant boiler and recently the burner was giving problems, not igniting so I took it off and brought it to a guy I know who replaced the nozzle and some other part for me. when I went to reconnect the burner I noticed there was water in the burning chamber?( in behind where the burner sits, not sure if that is the name for it) anyway I thought my boiler was leaking so I cleaned out the water and some sludge on the bottom of this chamber and reconnected the burner, bled the oil line, fired it up and everything seemed fine. I wanted to keep an eye out for a leak after finding water in behind the burner ( wasn't sure if it was rain water or a leak ) so let it run for about 20 mins or so and as the boiler reached a good temperature noticed water coming from the bottom of the boiler, the hotter it got the more water leaked ( hot water ). I turned off the boiler and within 20 or 30 secs the leaking stopped. I let the boiler cool over night and removed the burner again to see if there was water behind it again but it seemed as dry as I left it. just wondering if the boiler is knackered or if there is anything else it could be? also the pressure hasn't dropped its at 1 bar cold and about 1.2 hot. the guy who fixed my burner would usually have a look at it for me but has just gone on holiday for 2 weeks! just find it strange that it only leaks when its hot? any advice would be greatly appreciated
    Another cause can be burner under fireing and condesation dripping down chimney and causing wetness around boiler.

    Normaly leaks don't stop compleatly.

    But some grant boilers didn't have legs and if sitting on damp ground the base rusts away and leak there.
    They should have been instaled on blocks.

    Keep an eye on it and call your boiler guy or any good plumber.

    What area are you in and mabey one of us can call for a look.?

    Strange your guy goes on holidays at the busyiest time of year for boilers !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    It happened my own boiler. No leak when boiler off. Boiler on, water coming out of bottom of boiler. Boiler off it stopped again. Replaced the boiler & sent it back to manufacturer for testing. They could not find any leak, but they only air tested it & dumped it before getting back to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,840 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    shane0007 wrote: »
    It happened my own boiler. No leak when boiler off. Boiler on, water coming out of bottom of boiler. Boiler off it stopped again. Replaced the boiler & sent it back to manufacturer for testing. They could not find any leak, but they only air tested it & dumped it before getting back to me.

    Jaysus what are the chances of a grant boiler leaking on you in your own home!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Jaysus what are the chances of a grant boiler leaking on you in your own home!!

    I know! And it was a Vortex. There was a bit of laugh putting through the warranty call. Travel allowance, warranty call out fee & all that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭jimf


    shane0007 wrote: »
    I know! And it was a Vortex. There was a bit of laugh putting through the warranty call. Travel allowance, warranty call out fee & all that.

    is that the one qbe commissioned


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jimf wrote: »
    is that the one qbe commissioned

    No, his 8 year old was cheaper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭jimf


    I suppose its time we let poor ould qbe and the wonder child in peace


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Oh I'm sure we haven't seen the last of him. I quite look forward to his re-regs & antics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭jimf


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Oh I'm sure we haven't seen the last of him. I quite look forward to his re-regs & antics.

    if he does return do us a favour and leave your Sherlock holmes cape off for a few weeks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    jimf wrote: »
    if he does return do us a favour and leave your Sherlock holmes cape off for a few weeks

    I'll just PM everyone or better still I will use a secret code phrase like "the devil dances under a pale moonlight".
    Whoops forgot this is a public forum & my code has now been broken.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭jimf


    he can change his name but not his unique way of posting

    had a look in the games forum the other night after your post and have to agree the youngones really pissed him off


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane0007 wrote: »
    It happened my own boiler. No leak when boiler off. Boiler on, water coming out of bottom of boiler. Boiler off it stopped again. Replaced the boiler & sent it back to manufacturer for testing. They could not find any leak, but they only air tested it & dumped it before getting back to me.[/quote






    Nobodys perfect !! Please do not disagree as I've haven't the time to disagree due to all the leaking boilers in Kilkenny !






    PM me if u need help. I won't tell !










    Ok ok ok I'll be there at 11


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 mishoo666


    Hi Shane - are you a RGI Plumber/Heating servicer? When my heating system is turned on the overflow pipe coming out of the expansion vessel leaks. I was told the expansion vessel needs replacing. If so - it it big money to replace the part & get it fitted? Any help would be great - i really don't need the heating to go off during the holidays - with 2 young kids. Any help pls??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    mishoo666 wrote: »
    I was told the expansion vessel needs replacing.

    Who told you ? if they are so knowledgeable couldnt they quote you ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 mishoo666


    ...the plumber (Hugh) - he seemed to have vanished off the face of the earth. Told me vessel were coming in at €40 approx & approx 30mins labour to replace...didn't give me an overall cost thought. More importantly i need to get it done as i have 2 young babies & don't need to be stranded over xmas!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    What boiler is it? Make & model?
    It may just need re-pressurising so no parts maybe required.
    I wouldn't be around that area until latter part of next week


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 mishoo666


    shane0007 wrote: »
    What boiler is it? Make & model?
    It may just need re-pressurising so no parts maybe required.
    I wouldn't be around that area until latter part of next week

    It's a Vokera Mynute (16e???)
    The pressure on the boiler was up above the 2bar then increased upto 3-3.5bar when fired up.
    It's dropped back down since & hovering around the 1.5-2bar presently.
    The leak only occurs when the heating is on...coming from the outgoing overflow pipe on expansion vessel.
    I was told that vessel needed replacing...??
    Hugh turned down the thermostat on the boiler to see if it slowed down the leak - thinking it would slow the pressure rate...??


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