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Cancelling contract
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27-07-2011 5:43pm#1Hi following on from this thread. I'm looking for peoples opinions on the situation i'm in. To make a long story short, i'm with 3 for my mobile phone service, after many months of the service not working properly and 3 not resolving the issue i complained to comreg. 3 said they cant provide the service so they'll let me out of contract. However they want the phone i bought from them back
I've been over my terms and conditions and cant find a thing that says the handset is their property or even forms part of the contract between us. So have they any grounds to request the phone back?0
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The handset forms the subject matter of the contract and if they are ending that contract then they are entitled to seek return of the handset.
EDIT: After your recent post it seems the scenario is different than most people on that thread. Three should offer you the option to buy the handset over and above what you've already paid or else possibly return that money to you? Honestly I'm not sure and it would depend on the contract as well as the T&Cs0 -
What i don't understand is that in my own situation i paid for the phone upfront and under my terms and conditions there is nothing about having to return the phone in the event of cancellation. In fact there's very little mention of the handset at all really in the T&Cs and definitely nothing that says they own it
I thought that my contract was with Carphone Warehouse for the phone and 3 for the services provided. So is there anything in law that says they're entitled to the phone back? If there is what about the money i pad for the phone am i just out of pocket?
PS thanks for responding in both threads Freudian Slippers, much appreciated.0 -
A new phone can cost up to €800. When you buy it for as little as €29 you're asked to go into a contract with the phone company the reason for the contract is because they're subsidising your phone.
Basically, you will pay the full cost of the phone along with the cost of your calls by staying with your price plan for the duration of the contract, obviously with the phone company making some profit along the way.
If you cancel your contract only a month or two into the contract, then you've only paid for a fraction of your phone, and the company is entitled to seek its return. Either that or you can pay the remainder of the cost of the phone.
Your contract outlines that they will sell you the phone for €xx if you stay with them for 12/18 months. By breaking the contract, no matter who is at fault, you are not entitled to the phone as you are not sticking to the sale conditions. The company are being good by allowing you to break the contract without penalty because they cannot provide the service.
You can always just go get the same phone on another network. All you have to do is back up your contacts on you computer and problem solved.0 -
I have no idea how that works with Carphone Warehouse tbh. Have you contacted them about it?What i don't understand is that in my own situation i paid for the phone upfront and under my terms and conditions there is nothing about having to return the phone in the event of cancellation. In fact there's very little mention of the handset at all really in the T&Cs and definitely nothing that says they own it
I thought that my contract was with Carphone Warehouse for the phone and 3 for the services provided. So is there anything in law that says they're entitled to the phone back? If there is what about the money i pad for the phone am i just out of pocket?
PS thanks for responding in both threads Freudian Slippers, much appreciated.
Surely you got a subsidized rate, but if you paid for the phone (full value) they shouldn't be entitled to ask for the phone back.
Think of it this way if the contract is €x for "phone" and you've paid them €x, then the contract is done.
If the phone is €y amount and you've only paid €x for it then the contract is still ongoing and (in cases of subsidized phones) usually rife with conditions etc0 -
A new phone can cost up to €800. When you buy it for as little as €29 you're asked to go into a contract with the phone company the reason for the contract is because they're subsidising your phone.
Basically, you will pay the full cost of the phone along with the cost of your calls by staying with your price plan for the duration of the contract, obviously with the phone company making some profit along the way.
If you cancel your contract only a month or two into the contract, then you've only paid for a fraction of your phone, and the company is entitled to seek its return. Either that or you can pay the remainder of the cost of the phone.
Your contract outlines that they will sell you the phone for €xx if you stay with them for 12/18 months. By breaking the contract, no matter who is at fault, you are not entitled to the phone as you are not sticking to the sale conditions. The company are being good by allowing you to break the contract without penalty because they cannot provide the service.
You can always just go get the same phone on another network. All you have to do is back up your contacts on you computer and problem solved.
Hi source my T&Cs don't actually state that at all, there's virtually no reference to the handset, the only reference is to unlocking and having to pay them a fee to unlock. TBH i know i could sign up with another provider and get an iPhone but why should i have to if 3 have no entitlement (they might im not sure) to the phone. My real issue here is the fact that i've also bought accessories and apps along with paying up front and don't see why i should be left out of pocket for this.
Thanks
J0 -
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It's part of your contract, not T&Cs which are more related to service and billing etc.Hi source my T&Cs don't actually state that at all, there's virtually no reference to the handset, the only reference is to unlocking and having to pay them a fee to unlock. TBH i know i could sign up with another provider and get an iPhone but why should i have to if 3 have no entitlement (they might im not sure) to the phone. My real issue here is the fact that i've also bought accessories and apps along with paying up front and don't see why i should be left out of pocket for this.
Thanks
J0 -
FreudianSlippers wrote: »I have no idea how that works with Carphone Warehouse tbh. Have you contacted them about it?
Surely you got a subsidized rate, but if you paid for the phone (full value) they shouldn't be entitled to ask for the phone back.
Think of it this way if the contract is €x for "phone" and you've paid them €x, then the contract is done.
If the phone is €y amount and you've only paid €x for it then the contract is still ongoing and (in cases of subsidized phones) usually rife with conditions etc
No i haven't contacted them, i don't really see the point TBH, but i'm just basing that on my limited knowledge of contract law from college. I know that i signed a contract with 3 for a service but technically i never had an agreement with them regarding the phone (under their own T&Cs for my service).
As far as i was aware the purchase of the phone was from CPW and if something had gone wrong that would be separate to 3 under the Sale of goods act ie: if i had needed a repair. So i'm assuming its the same with the services contract as there's no mention of the phone.
J0 -
You just de-authorise your old iphone on itunes, and authorise your new iphone and all the apps will be downloaded to your new phone.
I had a 3GS a while back and changed about a year ago to an android phone. Recently I changed provider and got an iphone 4, I logged into the itunes store on my computer and downloaded all the apps I had on my phone over a year ago. It's really not that big a deal.0 -
You just de-authorise your old iphone on itunes, and authorise your new iphone and all the apps will be downloaded to your new phone.
I had a 3GS a while back and changed about a year ago to an android phone. Recently I changed provider and got an iphone 4, I logged into the itunes store on my computer and downloaded all the apps I had on my phone over a year ago. It's really not that big a deal.
I agree i've had a 3GS before too and the changeover is easy but thats not really my issue. Its more about the money I paid when i bought the phone, and even sivce then on accessioies etc... and if i had a change of cirumstances and wasnt in a position to get a new iphone? id be even more out of pocket from all the apps i've bought then.0 -
I agree i've had a 3GS before too and the changeover is easy but thats not really my issue. Its more about the money I paid when i bought the phone, and even sivce then on accessioies etc... and if i had a change of cirumstances and wasnt in a position to get a new iphone? id be even more out of pocket from all the apps i've bought then.
I don't see how you're going to be out of pocket, Every provider has iphones, all you have to do is request that they refund you the cost of the phone and then use that to get another one on another network. You won't be out any money with regard accessories or apps.
It's really very simple.0 -
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Check the USO SI 337/2011 Regulation 14 (6). That provides for a fair amount of latitude when it comes to unilateral breach as against the Consumer. Whether or not the handset is included in that, would depend on the specific contract. Have fun! ... in general terms, an earn out might apply to expensive phones such as an iPhone.0 -
Why didn't you check the coverage before you bought it ? what company where you previously connected/gives good coverage?
And on the contract it didn't state that you could keep the phone in the event of early termination either? Do you think that it's implied/reasonable that you get a free/highly subsidized iphone after 3 months(which is what your clearly looking for)?
If three are reasonable you should get the option to purchase the phone outright or get a refund of the initial phone cost and pherhaps part of three months service costs, thats all.0 -
Why didn't you check the coverage before you bought it ? what company where you previously connected/gives good coverage?
And on the contract it didn't state that you could keep the phone in the event of early termination either? Do you think that it's implied/reasonable that you get a free/highly subsidized iphone after 3 months(which is what your clearly looking for)?
If three are reasonable you should get the option to purchase the phone outright or get a refund of the initial phone cost and pherhaps part of three months service costs, thats all.
I was an existing customer of 3 before I upgraded to the iPhone last sept, and I had never had any issues up to that point.
I've actually had the phone just under a year and during this time have complained repeatedly to have the matter fixed, but it never was I was just told it was being looked into or it'll be just another few days etc... So it's not a case that I'm just looking for an excuse for a free phone, I'd be happier if the service just worked
The contract does not mention that the phone must be returned, nor is it even implied (others may have different T&Cs). So I think it reasonable that if 3 want the phone back they provide me with legitimate evidence that their entitled to it instead of making things up.
If they can do that then I'd also like them to reimburse me what I've paid for the phone upfront and towards it over the past year, and refund me for any apps etc I've purchased as I don't want to have to take out a 24month contract with another provider to be able to get another iPhone.
Thanks
J0 -
But see, the point is that you have a contract with them in addition to the T&Cs.I was an existing customer of 3 before I upgraded to the iPhone last sept, and I had never had any issues up to that point.
I've actually had the phone just under a year and during this time have complained repeatedly to have the matter fixed, but it never was I was just told it was being looked into or it'll be just another few days etc... So it's not a case that I'm just looking for an excuse for a free phone, I'd be happier if the service just worked
The contract does not mention that the phone must be returned, nor is it even implied (others may have different T&Cs). So I think it reasonable that if 3 want the phone back they provide me with legitimate evidence that their entitled to it instead of making things up.
If they can do that then I'd also like them to reimburse me what I've paid for the phone upfront and towards it over the past year, and refund me for any apps etc I've purchased as I don't want to have to take out a 24month contract with another provider to be able to get another iPhone.
Thanks
J
I think it's reasonable to ask for what you paid for the phone back tbh, but not the apps/accessories.
I should also point out that you've actually paid nothing "towards" the phone from your monthly payments - common misconception.0 -
FreudianSlippers wrote: »But see, the point is that you have a contract with them in addition to the T&Cs.
I think it's reasonable to ask for what you paid for the phone back tbh, but not the apps/accessories.
I should also point out that you've actually paid nothing "towards" the phone from your monthly payments - common misconception.
I agree on the misconception, that I haven't paid towards the phone technically I haven't. The monthly cost is only for my services.
The reason I say it because it was actually a rep from 3s complaints team that said part of my fee was towards the phone, if this is true, and how they view it I would expect a refund for this part of the fee.
How does the phone form part of the contract? That's the part I don't get. It might not be relevant but having looked further into the T&Cs it Says the following
3.5 If you purchase a Device from another retailer, you enter into an agreement with that other retailer for the purchase of the device. In this case, we are not part of your purchase agreement with the other retailer.
That reads to me like they have nothing to do with the ownership of thehandset at all, since i purchased from CPW, again I'm open to clarification on that
Thanks
J0 -
Again, I have no idea what relationship CPW has with Three... if that makes sense?I agree on the misconception, that I haven't paid towards the phone technically I haven't. The monthly cost is only for my services.
The reason I say it because it was actually a rep from 3s complaints team that said part of my fee was towards the phone, if this is true, and how they view it I would expect a refund for this part of the fee.
How does the phone form part of the contract? That's the part I don't get. It might not be relevant but having looked further into the T&Cs it Says the following
3.5 If you purchase a Device from another retailer, you enter into an agreement with that other retailer for the purchase of the device. In this case, we are not part of your purchase agreement with the other retailer.
That reads to me like they have nothing to do with the ownership of thehandset at all, since i purchased from CPW, again I'm open to clarification on that
Thanks
J
They could just be a concession within CPW that still operates their own agreements with customers.
You should ring CPW, explain the situation and see what they say tbh.0 -
You may find what you're looking for here or in the Carphone Warehouse T&Cs, the relevant section as follows (note I could only find the online version but expect a similar/identical clause in the in-store T&Cs):11. Right of Cancellation
11.1 If you are a private consumer you may cancel any purchase at any time within 7 working days from the day after completing your order for the Services (in respect of Services) or 7 working days from the day after receipt of the goods (in respect of goods) (“Trial Period”) without incurring any obligation or liability to us, however, you may not cancel any services once we have started to provide them with your agreement. In the event of any such cancellation you must return the goods (including any accessories which were included in the price of the goods) with proof of purchase to your local Carphone Warehouse store. Please note that if you do not return all accessories that were included with the goods, we shall be entitled to charge you for the cost of the missing items. If you do not return the goods to us in accordance with this agreement, you must make the goods available for collection and we may charge you the costs we incur in collecting it. You may examine the goods, but must take reasonable care of it until returned or collected (we consider this to be undamaged and unopened(the seal not broken) with its original packaging). We can also have the goods examined by a third party.
11.2 If, after notifying us of your intention to cancel your contract within the trial period, you have failed to return your goods to your local Carphone Warehouse store or you fail to make them available for collection as requested, you hereby irrevocably agree to pay CPW the retail price of the goods and you authorise us to take this amount from your credit or debit card or through such other means as we may require.
11.3 If you cancel your contract you must:
11.3.1 either notify us in writing by email by clicking here or by phone on 1850 424 800;
11.3.2 retain possession of the goods;
11.3.3 take reasonable care of the goods until we collect the goods, or deliver the goods to us; and
11.3.4 ensure that the goods are returned, or made available for collection, (as the case may be) in the same condition as it was when they were delivered to,
or collected by, you (as the case may be).
11.4 If you cancel your contract, we will refund the monies you have paid to us within 30 days of you giving notice under the relevant contract.
NOTE: Cross-post from the relevant ongoing Three thread.0
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