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Court approves force feeding.

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Comments

  • #102
    REXER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭REXER


    Oryx wrote: »
    Doctors don't torture they treat.

    One word! "Symphysiotomy"


  • #103
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Valmont wrote: »
    It is their own choice as it's their life. I try to stop people all the time with my work with the Samaritans but I stop trying to stop them when it involves locking them up and 'treating' them against their express wishes. The right to end one's life is sacrosanct in my opinion, even if I hope nobody does it and that someone helps them to choose otherwise.

    She is not trying to die though. She is trying to be thin. The disease means she doesn't understand that she's inadvertently killing herself.


  • #104
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes they should, they rob to get the money to pay the dealers, as unfortunate as it is they either rob and pay up or get beaten or killed, it will continue while the illegal drugs are illegal

    What makes you think legalising it would change that? Do you think legal drugs would be cheaper? Why exactly do you think people won't become junkies on legal heroin?


  • #105
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Hotale.com wrote: »
    As sad as the situation is, it's her life, and it's her choice.

    She won't snap out of it without some serious psychiatric aid.

    That is the thing they can force feed her all they want but unless they treat the unerlining cause then it is usless.


  • #106
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes they should, they rob to get the money to pay the dealers, as unfortunate as it is they either rob and pay up or get beaten or killed, it will continue while the illegal drugs are illegal

    There is a reason why some drugs are illegal but for another thread the rights or wrongs


  • #107
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    Ive never understood this sort of thing

    the girl dosnt want to eat. Thats her choice. If it results in her death then its her own fault. Leave her at it, let her die and move on.


  • #108
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    nc19 wrote: »
    Ive never understood this sort of thing


    That's patently obvious.


  • #109
    hairycakes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭hairycakes


    I don't understand how some people feel that she should be allowed to continue to starve herself which she is only doing because of her mental illness. She has the potential to be treated and eventually lead a full and happy life.

    Of course she would not want to be force fed and can articulately say so, firstly who would and secondly it will take away her control over food/eating which is what anorexia is all about, control. It is not necessarily all about being thin and is not a death wish.

    Committing suicide is another thing, obviously you should try everything to help a person through the depression leading them to that solution. No one would stand back and watch a person jump from a bridge or take an overdose.

    Everyone should have autonomy over their bodies I agree but when their mind becomes warped by a mental illness, that's when someone needs to step in and help them.


  • #110
    Valmont
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    This is what anorexia does to a person. She can be intelligent and still make irrational decisions. These decisions are dictated by her psychiatric condition.
    Anorexia doesn't do anything. Anorexia is the name we give to the behaviour of self-starvation, nothing more, nothing less. Considering the best therapy for 'treating' anorexia is motivational therapy, which involves convincing the person of the benefits of eating, affirming their power to choose to eat, respecting their autonomy, we have to accept that saying 'her decisions are dictated by her psychiatric condition' is nothing more than vacuous and dehumanising psycho-babble.

    Of course there are many unsubstantiated theories about which parts of the brain (the insula is the current fashionable focus of neuroscientific research) cause a person to self-starve, but it tells you all you need to know that the only way to 'cure' a person of anorexia is to sit down and convince them to choose to eat again.


  • #111
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    hairycakes wrote: »
    I don't understand how some people feel that she should be allowed to continue to starve herself which she is only doing because of her mental illness. She has the potential to be treated and eventually lead a full and happy life.

    Of course she would not want to be force fed and can articulately say so, firstly who would and secondly it will take away her control over food/eating which is what anorexia is all about, control. It is not necessarily all about being thin and is not a death wish.

    Committing suicide is another thing, obviously you should try everything to help a person through the depression leading them to that solution. No one would stand back and watch a person jump from a bridge or take an overdose.

    Everyone should have autonomy over their bodies I agree but when their mind becomes warped by a mental illness, that's when someone needs to step in and help them.

    She's been in treatment since the age of 12. Maybe she can't be cured. How long should the force feeding continue?


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  • #112
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    She's been in treatment since the age of 12. Maybe she can't be cured. How long should the force feeding continue?

    If she was my daughter I would not sit by and let her die.


  • #113
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Oryx wrote: »
    If she was my daughter I would not sit by and let her die.

    Exactly. It is easy to be objective and detached when all you know is that woman aged 26 is dying of anorexia.
    If her name and face was known or you saw a video of her or you were intimately connected to her you would have different attitude entirely.


  • #114
    CB19Kevo
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭CB19Kevo


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    So you want the woman to starve to death then? :mad:

    She has mental capacity and it has been explained what the consequences will be,Force feeding is a barbaric practice and of course no one wants to see someone starve to death but i think the state is overstepping the mark here.
    Terrible situation but every other non violent measure should be used instead of this.

    It just doesn't sit well with me.


  • #115
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    CB19Kevo wrote: »
    She has mental capacity and it has been explained what the consequences will be,Force feeding is a barbaric practice and of course no one wants to see someone starve to death but i think the state is overstepping the mark here.
    Terrible situation but every other non violent measure should be used instead of this.

    It just doesn't sit well with me.

    Leaving a woman to starve to death is far worse than sticking a tube down her nose to feed her and keep her alive. Anyone can see that.


  • #116
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    Barely There wrote: »
    That's patently obvious.

    Bleedings fecking hearts


    its people like you that perpetuate this type of behaviour. People like you desparte to be seen as a saviour giving the girl the very thing she craves, attention.

    if she doesnt want to eat why should she?


  • #117
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    So if a person had depression and tried to kill themselves it's their own choice and we shouldnt try to stop it?

    No we shouldn't

    if I was so inclined and made the tough decision and some bleeding heart god botherer stopped me and locked me up against my wishes I would not be happy


  • #118
    Derrydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Derrydoc


    nc19 wrote: »
    Bleedings fecking hearts


    its people like you that perpetuate this type of behaviour. People like you desparte to be seen as a saviour giving the girl the very thing she craves, attention.

    if she doesnt want to why should she?

    Are people with depression craving attention? People with schizophrenia? People with Bi-polar disorder? People with lung cancer, heart disease or kidney failure? All of these are conditions that people have little to no control over.


  • #119
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,004 ✭✭✭conorhal


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Says who? She is an adult, she has he right to make whatever choices she wants to about her own body.

    And here we get to the nub of the defence. Is there no depravity that the pro-abortion crowd won't support to ensure their nhillistic, sociopathic pro death stance?


  • #120
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    conorhal wrote: »
    And here we get to the nub of the defence. Is there no depravity that the pro-abortion crowd won't support to ensure their nhillistic, sociopathic pro death stance?

    Who said anything about abortion???


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  • #121
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Exactly. It is easy to be objective and detached when all you know is that woman aged 26 is dying of anorexia.
    If her name and face was known or you saw a video of her or you were intimately connected to her you would have different attitude entirely.
    how do you know, maybe if someone has an opinion they stick to it, but yeah, come out with the old "if it was this and that you would change your mind" drivel

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #122
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    Derrydoc wrote: »
    Are people with depression craving attention? People with schizophrenia? People with Bi-polar disorder? People with lung cancer, heart disease or kidney failure? All of these are conditions that people have little to no control over.

    I cant answer yes to this the same as you cant say no

    some people are looking for attention some are not.

    Can you say for sure this girl isnt?

    she is the eldest child in the family. For all we know she was not happy sharing her parents attention whan her siblings came along and this was her way of keeping the focus on her


  • #123
    Derrydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Derrydoc


    nc19 wrote: »
    I cant answer yes to this the same as you cant say no

    some people are looking for attention some are not.

    Can you say for sure this girl isnt?

    she is the eldest child in the family. For all we know she was not happy sharing her parents attention whan her siblings came along and this was her way of keeping the focus on her

    If for arguments sake with agree that this girl is just seeking attention then the fact that she is willing to die to get it is just another indication of how warped her thinking is.


  • #124
    Derrydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Derrydoc


    nc19 wrote: »
    I cant answer yes to this the same as you cant say no

    some people are looking for attention some are not.

    Can you say for sure this girl isnt?

    she is the eldest child in the family. For all we know she was not happy sharing her parents attention whan her siblings came along and this was her way of keeping the focus on her

    If for arguments sake weagree that this girl is just seeking attention then the fact that she is willing to die to get it is just another indication of how warped her thinking is.


  • #125
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Oryx wrote: »
    If she was my daughter I would not sit by and let her die.

    How long would you force feed her for? Would you restrain her too so she doesn't run away?


  • #126
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    Derrydoc wrote: »
    If for arguments sake weagree that this girl is just seeking attention then the fact that she is willing to die to get it is just another indication of how warped her thinking is.

    Forcing her to do something against her will will not fix her thinking


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  • #127
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    conorhal wrote: »
    And here we get to the nub of the defence. Is there no depravity that the pro-abortion crowd won't support to ensure their nhillistic, sociopathic pro death stance?

    I'm not quite sure what abortion has to do with this but why is not forcing somebody who clearly has no further desire continue living to do so in any way depraved, nihilistic or sociopathic? In my eyes it would be quite the opposite.


  • #128
    truedoom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭truedoom


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    better force fed then dead
    That'd be great on a tshirt


  • #129
    Derrydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Derrydoc


    nc19 wrote: »
    Forcing her to do something against her will will not fix her thinking

    No it won't however it will keep her alive long enough for the appropriate therapy to be delivered, force feeding is a last resort for anorexia patients.


  • #130
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    Derrydoc wrote: »
    No it won't however it will keep her alive long enough for the appropriate therapy to be delivered, force feeding is a last resort for anorexia patients.

    Its been 13 yrs....

    i think the quacks have got their monies worth out of her. Maybe they could think about magically fixing her all of a sudden


  • #131
    Derrydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Derrydoc


    nc19 wrote: »
    Its been 13 yrs....

    i think the quacks have got their monies worth out of her. Maybe they could think about magically fixing her all of a sudden

    I doubt the "quacks" are motivated by monetary gain. The natural history of Anorexia is of relapses followed by slow recoveries this girl will not have been starving herself for 13 years.


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  • #132
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    Valmont wrote: »
    Anorexia doesn't do anything. Anorexia is the name we give to the behaviour of self-starvation, nothing more, nothing less. Considering the best therapy for 'treating' anorexia is motivational therapy, which involves convincing the person of the benefits of eating, affirming their power to choose to eat, respecting their autonomy, we have to accept that saying 'her decisions are dictated by her psychiatric condition' is nothing more than vacuous and dehumanising psycho-babble.

    Of course there are many unsubstantiated theories about which parts of the brain (the insula is the current fashionable focus of neuroscientific research) cause a person to self-starve, but it tells you all you need to know that the only way to 'cure' a person of anorexia is to sit down and convince them to choose to eat again.

    It is not just the behaviour, it is a fully fledged disorder that includes decisions based on the sufferers skewed self perception of themselves. Not dissimilar to the delusion a schizophrenic holds, believing the unreality with conviction despite evidence to the contrary. No one is arguing against therapy, but this is impossible without this intervention as a last resort. What is she going to survive on to get to the therapy stage? Thin air?


  • #133
    Valmont
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    Lightbulb Sun wrote: »
    It is not just the behaviour, it is a fully fledged disorder that includes decisions based on the sufferers skewed self perception of themselves. Not dissimilar to the delusion a schizophrenic holds, believing the unreality with conviction despite evidence to the contrary. No one is arguing against therapy, but this is impossible without this intervention as a last resort. What is she going to survive on to get to the therapy stage? Thin air?
    Therapy will only work if she wants therapy; force-feeding her won't make that happen but only prolong her suffering. And I can't condone such a procedure forced upon a young women because she might reconsider changing her habits and eating patterns.

    There is no happy outcome when you have a case of this kind. Let them be and they will from starvation, which is truly tragic. Force a tube down their throat against their will and you are effectively torturing and dehumanising them. Unfortunately we just have to accept that sometimes, despite our best efforts to convince someone of the error of their ways, we have to let them get on with it out of respect for their own self-determination.


  • #134
    Lightbulb Sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Lightbulb Sun


    Valmont wrote: »
    Therapy will only work if she wants therapy; force-feeding her won't make that happen but only prolong her suffering. And I can't condone such a procedure forced upon a young women because she might reconsider changing her habits and eating patterns.

    There is no happy outcome when you have a case of this kind. Let them be and they will from starvation, which is truly tragic. Force a tube down their throat against their will and you are effectively torturing and dehumanising them. Unfortunately we just have to accept that sometimes, despite our best efforts to convince someone of the error of their ways, we have to let them get on with it out of respect for their own self-determination.

    That's a fairly loose definition of torture (in this context) but each to their own.


  • #135
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    conorhal wrote: »
    And here we get to the nub of the defence. Is there no depravity that the pro-abortion crowd won't support to ensure their nhillistic, sociopathic pro death stance?

    Eh...? This has nothing to do with abortion, I simply don't support forced medical intervention when the patient has clearly refused it. Life saving or not.


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