Can I go to the garda about this?

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 2:49pm #1

I bought a moped on donedeal a few weeks ago with what was said to be a minor problem with the electrics and that it was probably a fuse, all was good up until a few days ago when the bike stopped working altogether so I brought it to the garage.

Today the mechanic asked me to come in so he could explain a few things about the bike, apparently it had been robbed before and recovered but the damages where never properly fixed. The ignition system was from a Honda and was the cause of the electrics problem which would cost €200 to fix and that might not even be the problem with the engine not starting, the steering lock was removed, the exhaust was being held on by tape and someone had punched a hole in the front panel(which had been badly repaired).

The mechanic had rang another garage to see if they had any spare ignition systems, the mechanic in the other garage asked a few details about the bike and then confirmed that someone came into him a few weeks ago looking for the parts so he could sell the bike, so clearly the guy I bought the bike off knew about all these problems and didn't inform me of any of it.

I found the guy on adverts and can provide a link to the original ad

Is this enough to go to the garda about and actually have a case against this guy?

PLUG71 · 07-08-2014 2:53pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

I bought a moped on donedeal a few weeks ago with what was said to be a minor problem with the electrics and that it was probably a fuse, all was good up until a few days ago when the bike stopped working altogether so I brought it to the garage.

Today the mechanic asked me to come in so he could explain a few things about the bike, apparently it had been robbed before and recovered but the damages where never properly fixed. The ignition system was from a Honda and was the cause of the electrics problem which would cost €200 to fix and that might not even be the problem with the engine not starting, the steering lock was removed, the exhaust was being held on by tape and someone had punched a hole in the front panel(which had been badly repaired).

The mechanic had rang another garage to see if they had any spare ignition systems, the mechanic in the other garage asked a few details about the bike and then confirmed that someone came into him a few weeks ago looking for the parts so he could sell the bike, so clearly the guy I bought the bike off knew about all these problems and didn't inform me of any of it.

I found the guy on adverts and can provide a link to the original ad

Is this enough to go to the garda about and actually have a case against this guy?

AFAIK the moped was Sold As Seen and the onus was on you to check it out before buying it!

Hopefully somebody will correct me but I think thats the case!

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 2:58pm

Well there was no mention of Sold As Seen or onus on the ad itself so im sure it wouldnt be that way as default

PLUG71 · 07-08-2014 3:03pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

Well there was no mention of Sold As Seen or onus on the ad itself so im sure it wouldnt be that way as default

I think you will find it is standard practice.

Same as buying cars privately.

ABajaninCork · 07-08-2014 3:12pm

Like Plug said. Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware!! It's assumed with private vehicle sales, the car's bought as seen. I'm afraid you have no comeback, and certainly no case to go to the Gards about.

Why didn't you take a mechanic with you when you viewed the bike?

coylemj · 07-08-2014 3:14pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

Well there was no mention of Sold As Seen or onus on the ad itself so im sure it wouldnt be that way as default

In a private sale it is that way by default, 'caveat emptor' applies.

Unless it was in a dangerous condition when you bought it, you have no comeback as it was a private sale.

Not alone have you no business going to the Gardai, you have no business even going to a solicitor to sue the seller because he/she will tell you the same.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 3:17pm

original description - Very clean 2006 hyosung rally 50cc drives perfect just had service new oil , spark plug and battery just fitted
Kick start only no electric start but starts first kick every time and drives and stops great
Only 1 bad point indicators don't work maybe a fuse or something not a big problem anyway it's on indicators

You cant say that a bike is running perfectly when a mechanic says 3 weeks later that's its only fit for the scrap heap, especially when he said that it had been serviced when it clearly hadn't

but thanks for your input and I really hope your wrong

Galadriel · 07-08-2014 3:20pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

original description - Very clean 2006 hyosung rally 50cc drives perfect just had service new oil , spark plug and battery just fitted
Kick start only no electric start but starts first kick every time and drives and stops great
Only 1 bad point indicators don't work maybe a fuse or something not a big problem anyway it's on indicators

You cant say that a bike is running perfectly when a mechanic says 3 weeks later that's its only fit for the scrap heap, especially when he said that it had been serviced when it clearly hadn't

but thanks for your input and I really hope your wrong

The advice you got is correct, you have no come back, the same happened to me when I bought a car, I was really mad but only myself to blame, lesson learned I won't be doing it again.

coylemj · 07-08-2014 3:22pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

original description - Very clean 2006 hyosung rally 50cc drives perfect just had service new oil , spark plug and battery just fitted
Kick start only no electric start but starts first kick every time and drives and stops great
Only 1 bad point indicators don't work maybe a fuse or something not a big problem anyway it's on indicators

It's a given these days that you can't believe a word of the description in an ad for a house or a secondhand car and that the description in the ad. does not form part of the contract so you have to check out the merchandise yourself and live with the consequences if you decide to buy.

If exaggerating in an ad. was a crime, they'd be opening a new prison every other week.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 3:30pm

In the end i'm not down by too much since the mechanic gave me a very good scrap/trade offer for another bike, thanks for the replies i'll have to be more careful next time. Just out of curiosity, should I pursue the buyer myself? as in contact him about it in the hope that he is a decent person before I give him bad feedback? he does sell a lot of motorbikes through adverts so I feel like I should let everyone know to be careful with this guy

PLUG71 · 07-08-2014 3:32pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

In the end i'm not down by too much since the mechanic gave me a very good scrap/trade offer for another bike, thanks for the replies i'll have to be more careful next time. Just out of curiosity, should I pursue the buyer myself? as in contact him about it in the hope that he is a decent person before I give him bad feedback? he does sell a lot of motorbikes through adverts so I feel like I should let everyone know to be careful with this guy

Does the seller have a decent feedback score?

Twas Not · 07-08-2014 3:34pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

I bought a moped on donedeal a few weeks ago with what was said to be a minor problem with the electrics and that it was probably a fuse, all was good up until a few days ago when the bike stopped working altogether so I brought it to the garage.

Today the mechanic asked me to come in so he could explain a few things about the bike, apparently it had been robbed before and recovered but the damages where never properly fixed. The ignition system was from a Honda and was the cause of the electrics problem which would cost €200 to fix and that might not even be the problem with the engine not starting, the steering lock was removed, the exhaust was being held on by tape and someone had punched a hole in the front panel(which had been badly repaired).

The mechanic had rang another garage to see if they had any spare ignition systems, the mechanic in the other garage asked a few details about the bike and then confirmed that someone came into him a few weeks ago looking for the parts so he could sell the bike, so clearly the guy I bought the bike off knew about all these problems and didn't inform me of any of it.

I found the guy on adverts and can provide a link to the original ad

Is this enough to go to the garda about and actually have a case against this guy?

Going to the Gardai ???! Don't be so silly. You have ZERO comeback. Treat it as a valuable lesson - dont believe everything you read in an ad and get a mechanic to check before you buy.

Galadriel · 07-08-2014 3:35pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

In the end i'm not down by too much since the mechanic gave me a very good scrap/trade offer for another bike, thanks for the replies i'll have to be more careful next time. Just out of curiosity, should I pursue the buyer myself? as in contact him about it in the hope that he is a decent person before I give him bad feedback? he does sell a lot of motorbikes through adverts so I feel like I should let everyone know to be careful with this guy

I would contact him, you have nothing to lose. If there is no good outcome then definitely leave him bad feedback.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 3:38pm

PLUG71 wrote: »

Does the seller have a decent feedback score?

yes he has 27 positive and 1 negative for being a bad buyer, thing is I contacted him through donedeal so I'm not sure if it would be allowed if I left him bad feedback on adverts and I dont want to muck up my adverts account

Galadriel · 07-08-2014 3:42pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

yes he has 27 positive and 1 negative for being a bad buyer, thing is I contacted him through donedeal so I'm not sure if it would be allowed if I left him bad feedback on adverts and I dont want to muck up my adverts account

Nope, you can't leave feedback so.

PrettyBoy · 07-08-2014 3:48pm

There's nothing you can do - take it as a learning experience.

I know it's too late now but when you're spending a considerable amount of money on a car/bike it's worth paying a little bit more to have it inspected by an independent mechanic.

PLUG71 · 07-08-2014 3:53pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

yes he has 27 positive and 1 negative for being a bad buyer, thing is I contacted him through donedeal so I'm not sure if it would be allowed if I left him bad feedback on adverts and I dont want to muck up my adverts account

I would contact him and see what he says in responce.

His feedback seems ok for Adverts tbh.

Good luck and keep us appraised!!

Little CuChulainn · 07-08-2014 4:05pm

I don't know what adverts.ie policy is but it might be worth letting them know of your dealings with him.

db · 07-08-2014 4:12pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

In the end i'm not down by too much since the mechanic gave me a very good scrap/trade offer for another bike, thanks for the replies i'll have to be more careful next time. Just out of curiosity, should I pursue the buyer myself? as in contact him about it in the hope that he is a decent person before I give him bad feedback? he does sell a lot of motorbikes through adverts so I feel like I should let everyone know to be careful with this guy

If he sells a lot of motorbikes this may make him a dealer instead of a private seller in which case he is operating to different standards.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 4:21pm

well he has sole 10 motorbikes and 4 cars in the past 2 years through adverts, dont know if that makes him a dealer or not but im pretty sure I would have gotten an invoice when I bought it

PLUG71 · 07-08-2014 4:24pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

well he has sole 10 motorbikes and 4 cars in the past 2 years through adverts, dont know if that makes him a dealer or not but im pretty sure I would have gotten an invoice when I bought it

well he is a dealer just not registered/legit going on those numbers imo.
You should talk him!!

Pro Hoc Vice · 07-08-2014 4:30pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

well he has sole 10 motorbikes and 4 cars in the past 2 years through adverts, dont know if that makes him a dealer or not but im pretty sure I would have gotten an invoice when I bought it

That may change everything.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 4:36pm

I had a chat with him through adverts and he does seem to be a little edgy about it and is denying knowing about the problems

@Pro Hoc Vice: How so?

daithi123 · 07-08-2014 4:59pm

did you even ring the guy to tell him the bike had broke or just go straight to a garage, this lad sells a lot of bikes so i'm sure he would probably have helped you out in some way repaired the bike or exchanged it, he wouldn't have good feedback if he was selling dodgy bikes, just because it was a stolen recovered bike doesn't mean very much, that would not have much to do with the engine as the scooter engine is enclosed , what thief is going to take the time to undo 10 bolts to mess with an engine, i'm sure the electric fault was due to it been robbed, unless he had a crystal ball how was he meant to know that the bike would break down after a couple of days, there is not much in a scooter so it would have been an easy fix, 200 seems well over priced to fix it whole engine wouldn't cost that, as far as i can see you looked at the bike gave it a test drive made a deal drove home happy after a few days of driving it stopped no ones fault its an engine they stop all the time, you didn't make a simple call to the guy and now you want to get the gaurds or sue him, you don't even have the bike to give back to him to check it, get a life man your way out of order, he should sue you for slander

Zambia · 07-08-2014 5:17pm

daithi123 wrote: »

did you even ring the guy to tell him the bike had broke or just go straight to a garage, this lad sells a lot of bikes so i'm sure he would probably have helped you out in some way repaired the bike or exchanged it, he wouldn't have good feedback if he was selling dodgy bikes, just because it was a stolen recovered bike doesn't mean very much, that would not have much to do with the engine as the scooter engine is enclosed , what thief is going to take the time to undo 10 bolts to mess with an engine, i'm sure the electric fault was due to it been robbed, unless he had a crystal ball how was he meant to know that the bike would break down after a couple of days, there is not much in a scooter so it would have been an easy fix, 200 seems well over priced to fix it whole engine wouldn't cost that, as far as i can see you looked at the bike gave it a test drive made a deal drove home happy after a few days of driving it stopped no ones fault its an engine they stop all the time, you didn't make a simple call to the guy and now you want to get the gaurds or sue him, you don't even have the bike to give back to him to check it, get a life man your way out of order, he should sue you for slander

I should sue you for that post.

Bepolite · 07-08-2014 5:32pm

Zambia wrote: »

I should sue you for that post.

I find the accused guilty and sentence them to eight full-stops and three paragraphs.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 5:34pm

daithi123 wrote: »

did you even ring the guy to tell him the bike had broke or just go straight to a garage, this lad sells a lot of bikes so i'm sure he would probably have helped you out in some way repaired the bike or exchanged it, he wouldn't have good feedback if he was selling dodgy bikes, just because it was a stolen recovered bike doesn't mean very much, that would not have much to do with the engine as the scooter engine is enclosed , what thief is going to take the time to undo 10 bolts to mess with an engine, i'm sure the electric fault was due to it been robbed, unless he had a crystal ball how was he meant to know that the bike would break down after a couple of days, there is not much in a scooter so it would have been an easy fix, 200 seems well over priced to fix it whole engine wouldn't cost that, as far as i can see you looked at the bike gave it a test drive made a deal drove home happy after a few days of driving it stopped no ones fault its an engine they stop all the time, you didn't make a simple call to the guy and now you want to get the gaurds or sue him, you don't even have the bike to give back to him to check it, get a life man your way out of order, he should sue you for slander

If you had of read any of my posts properly you would know that he said that the electrics where not working and it could be a fuse when he knew that it was caused by the Honda ignition because he switched it out himself. The reason why its such an expensive thing to fix i because its a rare bike and the ignition comes with the steering lock. He claimed to have had the bike serviced and if he did then I'm pretty sure that the bike wouldn't have broken down so soon, also the mechanic said that it could be connected with the ignition system being the wrong kind for the bike but he never looked into because of the cost of fixing the ignition in the first place. The reason why I don't think its a coincidence that the bike broke down a few days after getting it is because he has already lied several times about the problems of the bike. I never said I wanted to sue him, I made the post to see if I had a case to bring to the gaurds before I started talking to him about it incase it came to the point where I had to start making threats to show that I'm serious about getting my money back. I still have the bike, its sitting in the garage until I make a decision on what I should do with it, when I started talking to him about it I didnt accuse him of lying or make any threats, I just explained the situation and asked for some of the money back.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 5:41pm

Also he could have padded his feedback, a lot people do it

Little CuChulainn · 07-08-2014 5:46pm

I'd get a second opinion from another mechanic. It seems a little strange that he is offering a good salvage price if the bike is so ****ed. The fact it is a rare bike would have me even more suspicious.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 5:58pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'd get a second opinion from another mechanic. It seems a little strange that he is offering a good salvage price if the bike is so ****ed. The fact it is a rare bike would have me even more suspicious.

I'm trusting what he says atm since his garage is full of garda bikes

Little CuChulainn · 07-08-2014 5:59pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

I'm trusting what he says atm since his garage is full of garda bikes

Not sure why you think that would make him trustworthy. Garda fleet is often maintained by the lowest bidder.

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 6:02pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Not sure why you think that would make him trustworthy. Garda fleet is often maintained by the lowest bidder.

well it tells me that he's not struggling atm

Little CuChulainn · 07-08-2014 6:04pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

well it tells me that he's not struggling atm

You didn't get an opinion when you bought the bike and you were screwed. I'm just suggesting you ensure you aren't getting screwed again.

endacl · 07-08-2014 6:06pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

If you had of read any of my posts properly you would know that he said that the electrics where not working and it could be a fuse when he knew that it was caused by the Honda ignition because he switched it out himself. The reason why its such an expensive thing to fix i because its a rare bike and the ignition comes with the steering lock. He claimed to have had the bike serviced and if he did then I'm pretty sure that the bike wouldn't have broken down so soon, also the mechanic said that it could be connected with the ignition system being the wrong kind for the bike but he never looked into because of the cost of fixing the ignition in the first place. The reason why I don't think its a coincidence that the bike broke down a few days after getting it is because he has already lied several times about the problems of the bike. I never said I wanted to sue him, I made the post to see if I had a case to bring to the gaurds before I started talking to him about it incase it came to the point where I had to start making threats to show that I'm serious about getting my money back. I still have the bike, its sitting in the garage until I make a decision on what I should do with it, when I started talking to him about it I didnt accuse him of lying or make any threats, I just explained the situation and asked for some of the money back.

Seriously dude! <return> key!

MarkB94 · 07-08-2014 6:15pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You didn't get an opinion when you bought the bike and you were screwed. I'm just suggesting you ensure you aren't getting screwed again.

Yeah I guess it would be smart to get it checked by another mechanic, thanks for the advice

The_Captain · 07-08-2014 6:33pm

So you bought a moped knowing there was a fault with the electrics and now you're complaining that there's a fault in the electrics?

You're probably quite young, but never buy from a private sale without being 100%, and if that means paying for an independent mechanic to look over it before handing over money, so be it.

Also, I've had a mechanic tell me my car was written off and bought if off me for parts in the past before seeing somebody else driving around in it a month later

Pat Mustard · 07-08-2014 7:53pm

If the bike had been stolen at some point, there may be a question as to whether the seller had the right to sell it. If he did not, the sale might possibly have been an illegal contract. If none of the exceptions to the Nemo Dat rule come into play, title may not have passed. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet

I don't see it as certain that there is definitely no comeback against the seller. The full facts are not entirely clear here.

I would think that the easiest way to check whether or not a vehicle was stolen would be to contact Gardai. If it was stolen, I imagine that they'd seize the bike.

It may be difficult to recover money from a dodgy seller.

Also see here. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html#sec13

MarkB94 · 08-08-2014 7:04am

The Mustard wrote: »

If the bike had been stolen at some point, there may be a question as to whether the seller had the right to sell it. If he did not, the sale might possibly have been an illegal contract. If none of the exceptions to the Nemo Dat rule come into play, title may not have passed.

I don't see it as certain that there is definitely no comeback against the seller. The full facts are not entirely clear here.

I would think that the easiest way to check whether or not a vehicle was stolen would be to contact Gardai. If it was stolen, I imagine that they'd seize the bike.

It may be difficult to recover money from a dodgy seller.

Also see here.

Well the mechanic said it was stolen at some point because the steering lock is gone which basically locks the steering until a key is in the ignition, also it didn't have the right ignition for the bike and there was clearly a hole punched in the front panel which covers all this

I did get a log book with it so I would say it was just stolen before and recovered, I'm not sure someone one go as far as to forge a log book to sell a stolen bike worth €450

Squatman · 08-08-2014 8:04am

€450, thats the price of a bicycle. For that money, id chalk it down to experience and learn from it.

Pat Mustard · 08-08-2014 10:23pm

MarkB94 wrote: »

Well the mechanic said it was stolen at some point because the steering lock is gone which basically locks the steering until a key is in the ignition, also it didn't have the right ignition for the bike and there was clearly a hole punched in the front panel which covers all this

I did get a log book with it so I would say it was just stolen before and recovered, I'm not sure someone one go as far as to forge a log book to sell a stolen bike worth €450

Maybe the bike was stolen. However, if you wanted to show that it was stolen in court, you'd have to show that it was owned by a particular person and that it had been taken from that person without permission. It might be easier said than done, to prove this.

If you get the Gardai to assist you in this, it is possible that they could impound the bike either as evidence, or to return it to the original owner, whether or not you recover the money that you paid for said bike.

If so, that could leave you without the bike or the €450.

If you have details of previous owners, maybe you can make enquiries for yourself, as to ownership.

It could be a lot of hassle over €450.

Up to you.

Can I go to the garda about this?

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