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Interesting day for Palestine

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    #62
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Nodin wrote: »
    And what justifies this occupation and colonisation, in your mind?

    I don't feel that I need to justify my stance on Israel to you or anyone else.


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    #63
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    I don't feel that I need to justify my stance on Israel to you or anyone else.

    Then you've missed the whole point of what Boards is all about then.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #64
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    JRant wrote: »
    Then you've missed the whole point of what Boards is all about then.

    Boards.ie does not allow free speech, anyone with consevative opinions is eventually harased off the site or banned. I have made it clear in other threads where I draw the line just as I have on this one.


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    #65
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    I don't feel that I need to justify my stance on Israel to you or anyone else.


    I asked how you justify it in your own mind ie to yourself. What justifies the occupation and colonisation of the West Bank, Gaza and Arab East Jerusalem?


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    #66
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Nodin wrote: »
    I asked how you justify it in your own mind ie to yourself. What justifies the occupation and colonisation of the West Bank, Gaza and Arab East Jerusalem?

    He cannot, that is why he wont answer the question.


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    #67
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    He cannot, that is why he wont answer the question.


    O he has to have a reason.


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    #68
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Latest news is that Jewish settlers attacked a convoy of US diplomats visiting the West Bank.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/settler-attack-diplomats-west-bank/2584127.html


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    #69
    Eoin247
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭Eoin247


    1123heavy wrote: »
    Israel are far worse than Hamas,

    Do... do you actually believe this? Have you ever read any of their publications or read what their end goals are? Read their charter/covenant. They openly say that their goal is to kill every Jew in Israel, no compromises. They couldn't care less if their rockets hit a Jewish tank or a Jewish kindergarden.

    They also have no problem using their own people as shields to protect and hide their rockets. They even hide rockets near aid agencies whose goals are to help the local population as we learned from the aid agencies themselves last year.

    Israel are certainly not saints, they have a lot to answer for too. But Hamas is many many times worse than Israel and I'd like to hear how you can possible defend your point that Hamas are better?


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    #70
    tbradman
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭tbradman


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    This may be a naive question, but anyway! What exactly, or who, determines if a country is a country. I understand individual countries can recognize other countries, but is there a legal body that eventual decides?

    Actually it's a pretty good question and worth a Google... There is no legal body which decides this, basically it comes down to whether other current states recognise the new "entity". Taiwan for example fits all of the criteria of a modern state (single government ruling over a defined territory, with a permanent population, sets its own taxes and excises. Has its own defence forces and can enter into foreign agreements with other nations). Yet nobody wants to recognise it as such in case they offend China. As Yugoslavia broke up bits of it were recognised by Germany, Russia, etc as it suited their geopolitical view. Even though most of the individual entity states were very "shaky" for the first couple of years.

    Manach wrote: »
    On the plus side for Palestine, they are now signed up to the International Criminal Court as per http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30645462.

    Um... Actually Palestine has applied to join the ICC, it's not a done deal just yet from what I read. They have submitted their application and it will take 60 days to be considered. One problem is that only states can join the ICC. As to whether Palestine is a state, it is still being debated...

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/01/palestinians-submit-icc-application-201512155450286955.html


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    #71
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Eoin247 wrote: »
    Do... do you actually believe this? Have you ever read any of their publications or read what their end goals are? Read their charter/covenant. They openly say that their goal is to kill every Jew in Israel, no compromises. They couldn't care less if their rockets hit a Jewish tank or a Jewish kindergarden.

    They also have no problem using their own people as shields to protect and hide their rockets. They even hide rockets near aid agencies whose goals are to help the local population as we learned from the aid agencies themselves last year.

    Israel are certainly not saints, they have a lot to answer for too. But Hamas is many many times worse than Israel and I'd like to hear how you can possible defend your point that Hamas are better?

    It speaks volumes of the Palestinian people that they would vote for these barbaric savages.


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    #72
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    It speaks volumes of the Palestinian people that they would vote for these barbaric savages.


    Are you going to enlighten us as to why you support Israels program of colonisation?


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    #73
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    It speaks volumes of the Palestinian people that they would vote for these barbaric savages.


    Irish people voted fpr SF in the 70's/80's. People will vote for the only people who are standing up for them. It also says volumes about the Israeli people who vote in governments who allow illegal settlements, the illegal possession of Palestinian land and who actively murder innocent civilians. As for Hamas using people as human shields, It's been proven that this is a tactic used by the IDF,


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    #74
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    As for Hamas using people as human shields, It's been proven that this is a tactic used by the IDF,

    Source on this claim?


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    #75
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    Source on this claim?

    Until 2005 Israel used human shields as part of official practice. Since then it has occurred unoffically.
    http://www.btselem.org/human_shields

    Are you going to explain why you support Israels policy of colonisation now?


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    #76
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    Source on this claim?

    Nodins link satisfactory enough?


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    #77
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    It speaks volumes of the Palestinian people that they would vote for these barbaric savages.

    All other avenues were exhausted. Diplomacy never worked for decades so they decided to go with Hamas after years of witnessing there fellow countrymen being massacred.


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    #78
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Nodins link satisfactory enough?

    Sorry, I have put him on my ignore list - can you post it please?


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    #79
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    It speaks volumes of the Palestinian people that they would vote for these barbaric savages.

    Indeed.

    How do you feel about The Dahiya doctrine then?

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/israel-deliberately-targeting-civilians-gaza

    This is a barbaric policy that has the full backing of the Knesset.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #80
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    All other avenues were exhausted. Diplomacy never worked for decades so they decided to go with Hamas after years of witnessing there fellow countrymen being massacred.

    Seems to be going well for them.:rolleyes:


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    #81
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    All other avenues were exhausted. Diplomacy never worked for decades so they decided to go with Hamas after years of witnessing there fellow countrymen being massacred.

    Isreal can stop this whole thing anytime they like. They are choosing expansion over security.

    There is an International consensous agreed upon by nearly everyone, excluding Isreal and the US of course, for a 2 state resolution. That would involve Isreal stopping their criminal activity, return the land they have stolen and lift the seige on Palestinians.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #82
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    It speaks volumes of the Palestinian people that they would vote for these barbaric savages.

    Voting for barbaric savages? Since when did the Palestinian people start voting for the Israeli government?


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    #83
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    Seems to be going well for them.:rolleyes:

    It was no better when Arafat was there leader. Israels responses towards Hamas rockets (fireworks more like it) is an absolute disgrace and indefensible. Could you for one minute imagine Britain sending in there air force to flatten, lets say, Drogheda because of the I.R.A's bombing campaign in London etc.??


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    #84
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    Sorry, I have put him on my ignore list - can you post it please?

    Here ya go

    http://www.btselem.org/human_shields


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    #85
    Eoin247
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭Eoin247


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Could you for one minute imagine Britain sending in there air force to flatten, lets say, Drogheda because of the I.R.A's bombing campaign in London etc.??

    Not defending Israel here, but I really hate it when people here constantly compare "the troubles" with the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's apples and oranges really. If you want a comparable situation, it would be if our elected government fired rockets regularly at London after we got independence. Knowing Britains attitude towards us in the past, I'm pretty sure we would have been dealt with very harshly :P


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    #86
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Eoin247 wrote: »
    Not defending Israel here, but I really hate it when people here constantly compare "the troubles" with the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's apples and oranges really. If you want a comparable situation, it would be if our elected government fired rockets regularly at London after we got independence. Knowing Britains attitude towards us in the past, I'm pretty sure we would have been dealt with very harshly :P

    When did Palestine get independence?


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    #87
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Eoin247 wrote: »
    Not defending Israel here, but I really hate it when people here constantly compare "the troubles" with the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's apples and oranges really. If you want a comparable situation, it would be if our elected government fired rockets regularly at London after we got independence. Knowing Britains attitude towards us in the past, I'm pretty sure we would have been dealt with very harshly :P


    That shows a great gap in your knowledge of the situation, tbh. Gaza is not Palestine, it is a small part of the area. The West Bank is far larger, has been on ceasefire for a decade or so, and is still being actively colonised by Israel.


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    #88
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Eoin247 wrote: »
    Not defending Israel here, but I really hate it when people here constantly compare "the troubles" with the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's apples and oranges really. If you want a comparable situation, it would be if our elected government fired rockets regularly at London after we got independence. Knowing Britains attitude towards us in the past, I'm pretty sure we would have been dealt with very harshly :P

    I have looked closely for the last 2 minutes and have yet to find Palestine on the atlas. It is very comparable. Even before Hamas was elected Israel still bombarded the Palestinians from the sky and with ground troops. The Israeli's continue to spout the rubbish that Hamas want to wipe Israel off the map when in fact the Israelis have done that exact same thing to Palestine through there illegal occupation of there land and extermination of there people.

    Hamas is as much a threat to Israels security as Cuba is to the U.S.A's. Were talking about one of the most military advanced armies in the world against a movement that make home made rockets. Its like me fighting you with a stick when your carrying a machine gun.

    The propaganda the IDF spout is laughable, and what is even more laughable is that some people believe it.


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    #89
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Nodin wrote: »
    That shows a great gap in your knowledge of the situation, tbh. Gaza is not Palestine, it is a small part of the area. The West Bank is far larger, has been on ceasefire for a decade or so, and is still being actively colonised by Israel.

    Exactly right. Look at Isreal's cleansing of the Jordan Valley. In the 60's there were approx 300,000 palestinian's there, now there are less than 60,000.

    The West bank has been divided into cantons by Isreali roads and walls with more and more land being grabbed on a daily basis.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #90
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    I have looked closely for the last 2 minutes and have yet to find Palestine on the atlas. It is very comparable. Even before Hamas was elected Israel still bombarded the Palestinians from the sky and with ground troops. The Israeli's continue to spout the rubbish that Hamas want to wipe Israel off the map when in fact the Israelis have done that exact same thing to Palestine through there illegal occupation of there land and extermination of there people.

    Hamas is as much a threat to Israels security as Cuba is to the U.S.A's. Were talking about one of the most military advanced armies in the world against a movement that make home made rockets. Its like me fighting you with a stick when your carrying a machine gun.

    The propaganda the IDF spout is laughable, and what is even more laughable is that some people believe it.

    I remember reading recently that outside of the US, Isreal have a superior airforce to any other NATO member.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #91
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    I think Israel are actually quite moderate in their approach to Hamas/ Palestinians. If I was head of their military I would buy a couple dozzen B52 Superfortresses from the Americans and turn Gaza and the West Bank into the next Dresden. Problem gone over the course of 2 to 3 days concerted bombing.

    Mod: Banned, see mod note below.


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