EDGE 100 greatest videogames list.

Retr0gamer · 05-10-2015 5:41pm

da gamer wrote: »

So are you saying goldeneye is not worthy of a place in a 'best video games' list?

Definitely not. Influential and innovative games ever, yes, but it's a best games ever list. These days however it doesn't stack up and the sub 15 fps refresh rate is criminal. Games like the half life series, doom, blood, no one lives forever, call of duty mw etc. are far more deserving before goldeneye. Even hybrids lie thief or system shock I'd place above it before even considering it. Some games just date badly and a lot of games from that 32 and 64 bit era fall victim to it.

Dan_Solo · 05-10-2015 5:46pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Time has not been kind to Goldeneye. It might be a very influential game but it's not a good one especially with the calibre of FPS games that have come and even ones before it like Doom 2.

Then why are Tetris and Pacman on the list? It's either the best "if they were on sale today" or the best of their time/most influential. if it's the latter, then how could any of the arcade megahits fail to be in it?

ERG89 · 05-10-2015 5:46pm

The biggest travesty of this list is the special edition magazine actually costs €19 in Easons....Basically 20 euro for a magazine.....

kunst nugget · 05-10-2015 5:52pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Then why are Tetris and Pacman on the list? It's either the best "if they were on sale today" or the best of their time/most influential. if it's the latter, then how could any of the arcade megahits fail to be in it?

They're probably not the best examples as you could nearly class them as timeless - the simplistic gameplay and graphics means they don't suffer the same issues that retrogamer is taking about - sub 15fps etc.

Maximus Alexander · 05-10-2015 5:54pm

I thought Dark Souls was absolute crap.

I'm sure it was really, really good at doing whatever it was supposed to do. But I don't like whatever it was supposed to do, at all.

And that's why other people's lists of Top X Best Things Ever are nothing to get wound up about - they're meaningless. Each of us would make a different one. The only time they can really be of use is if you find a list that you broadly agree with, notice some things on it you've never tried, and thus have a pretty good idea that you have some new things to try that you might like.

da gamer · 05-10-2015 5:55pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Definitely not. Influential and innovative games ever, yes, but it's a best games ever list. These days however it doesn't stack up and the sub 15 fps refresh rate is criminal. Games like the half life series, doom, blood, no one lives forever, call of duty mw etc. are far more deserving before goldeneye. Even hybrids lie thief or system shock I'd place above it before even considering it. Some games just date badly and a lot of games from that 32 and 64 bit era fall victim to it.

The list is the top 100 games ever, not the top 100 games that have aged the best. Goldeneye is one of the best games ever, regardless of how it plays today. Anyone that thinks otherwise shouldn't be playing videogames

Mal-Adjusted · 05-10-2015 5:55pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Sometimes it feels like Edge is the biggest troll publication out there.

Maybe, I used to get the magazine the odd time but could barely get into an article before the author would dissapear up their own hole...it's just the way they're like.

I'm actually a little surprised that Evolve, Uncharted 4 and Scalebould aren't on it.

If memory serves, didn't Boards.ie do our own top 100 a couple of years ago? I'd wonder how they'd compare.

Hercule · 05-10-2015 5:57pm

What a joke, if this wasn't from EDGE i'd assume it was a trolling top 100 pulled from a reddit ****post - EDGE has always been a total rag in my opinion, constant inconsistent / suspicious content.

ballyargus · 05-10-2015 6:04pm

The adventure genre is conspicuous by its ENTIRE absence

speedboatchase · 05-10-2015 6:08pm

ERG89 wrote: »

The biggest travesty of this list is the special edition magazine actually costs €19 in Easons....Basically 20 euro for a magazine.....

Buy it. Seriously.

They made a similar special edition in 2007 and I sold it to a guy on eBay for about €100. This was after seeing a forum post where someone sold theirs for a similar amount.

Buy it and see if you can sell it for a few months later.

Retr0gamer · 05-10-2015 6:28pm

da gamer wrote: »

The list is the top 100 games ever, not the top 100 games that have aged the best. Goldeneye is one of the best games ever, regardless of how it plays today. Anyone that thinks otherwise shouldn't be playing videogames

If you look at it through Rose tinted glasses with lashing of nostalgia jam. Look at it critically and it just doesn't hold up unlike something timeless like Tetris.

Retr0gamer · 05-10-2015 6:35pm

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I thought Dark Souls was absolute crap.

I'm sure it was really, really good at doing whatever it was supposed to do. But I don't like whatever it was supposed to do, at all.

And that's why other people's lists of Top X Best Things Ever are nothing to get wound up about - they're meaningless. Each of us would make a different one. The only time they can really be of use is if you find a list that you broadly agree with, notice some things on it you've never tried, and thus have a pretty good idea that you have some new things to try that you might like.

The problem is that Edge is a bunch of critics that are seen as many as highly regarded in their field (and a bunch of spoofers by others). Having a group like that means absolute fever dream delusions like your opinion of Dark Souls get diluted :P on the other hand even if it's edge I'm dumbfounded by how poor the list is and how it's filled to the brim with flash in the pan new games , no surprises and a complete disregard for anything but the most populist classic games. It's baffling.

There's even some games in there that are just plain bad. R type final's inclusion is kind of indicative that none of the writers have any knowledge of shmups so just stuck one in. It's just a bad game with boring levels and one stage is played at sub 5 fps (I'm not exaggerating, stage 3 is excruciating) and is on the list at the expense of greats like radiant Silvergun, battle garegga or even R Type 1, 2, 3, Leo and Delta.

Randall Floyd · 05-10-2015 6:57pm

I notice skyward sword isn't there despite them awarding it one of their coveted 10/10s.

Dan_Solo · 05-10-2015 7:56pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If you look at it through Rose tinted glasses with lashing of nostalgia jam. Look at it critically and it just doesn't hold up unlike something timeless like Tetris.

But that isn't the problem. Nobody is arguing that Tetris and Pacman are among the best games ever. But this whole list seems to assume that arcades never existed and home computing started about 1995. If Pacman is a best game ever, where's Asteroids? Bubble Bobble? Gauntlet? Where's the entire interactive fiction genre? Manic Miner or Boulderdash?
Yes, lists are made to be argued about, so this one has done its job. I don't know how anybody can defend it though. It's not even the wrong games, it just isn't a list of best games ever at all.

Generic Dreadhead · 05-10-2015 9:56pm

Randall Floyd wrote: »

I notice skyward sword isn't there despite them awarding it one of their coveted 10/10s.

Probably cause it was s**t

Mr Freeze · 06-10-2015 9:02am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

no one lives forever

What a blast from the past there, that was an amazing game.

tailgunner · 06-10-2015 9:19am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

What a blast from the past there, that was an amazing game.

Couldn't remember it at all till I Googled it, fantastic game alright.

WeleaseWoderick · 06-10-2015 10:10am

Not that I'm a big fan of these lists or particularly agree with their choices but this was the criteria that was used:

"In compiling the list, we worked to simple criteria: all formats – console, PC, portable, coin-op, touchscreen – were eligible; we could include only a single entry from any series that features straight-up sequels; and each game had to stand up today rather than making the cut for reasons of nostalgia or historic significance. The result is a collection of modern classics that must not be missed."

So RetrOgamer's point on Goldeneye does have some merit

Penn · 06-10-2015 10:45am

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

we could include only a single entry from any series that features straight-up sequels;

Well that's a bunch o'bullsh*t. You can only feature one GTA or one MGS, but because of the way Nintendo name their games you can have 4 Marios (as in platformers, not counting Maker or Mario Kart) and 4 Zeldas in the top 50?

Retr0gamer · 06-10-2015 11:53am

I think it's fair enough in some cases. GTA and MGS are all very similar while Mario games are wildly different from each other and some of the earlier Zelda games are totally different from what the series has become. All those mario games are very different experiences from each other and I'd say the same about the Zelda games as well other than Wind Waker which is way too similar to Ocarina of Time and the other later zelda games that use the same Ocarina formula. It's a bit of a silly rule that they should have played loosely with, basically it's like ruling out Resi 2 because Resi 4 is on the list but both are very different games. But thems the rules.

Cina · 06-10-2015 12:30pm

I don't even know why people are rambling on about FF7 and randomly bashing it. It's not even in the list...

Pac1Man · 06-10-2015 12:38pm

Good list. I would also agree that Driveclub is better than Chrono Trigger.

Retr0gamer · 06-10-2015 12:50pm

Pac1Man wrote: »

Good list. I would also agree that Driveclub is better than Chrono Trigger.

This guy are sick.

kunst nugget · 06-10-2015 12:51pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

This guy are sick.

All are bases are belong to us?

Pac1Man · 06-10-2015 1:57pm

Tongue firmly in cheek by the way!!!

Mal-Adjusted · 06-10-2015 2:55pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

All are bases are belong to us?

Are you a bad enough dude to save the president?

Sonics2k · 06-10-2015 3:44pm

I don't exactly agree with the list at all, but I'm baffled by Dark Souls being at number 1.

It was a good game, but frustrating as hell with clunky controls and a plot right out of a tumblr account. Sure it gave people some laughs watching others try to beat it, Drunk Souls is a good one for a giggle, but best game ever? Not a chance.

da gamer · 06-10-2015 3:57pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If you look at it through Rose tinted glasses with lashing of nostalgia jam. Look at it critically and it just doesn't hold up unlike something timeless like Tetris.

I agree that it hasnt aged well, that can't be denied. However I can't agree with the notion that if a game was a classic 20 years ago and one of the best games of a generation, that it can't be considered one of the best games ever because it doesn't stand up to today's games, that's complete nonsense.

kunst nugget · 06-10-2015 4:06pm

da gamer wrote: »

I agree that it hasnt aged well, that can't be denied. However I can't agree with the notion that if a game was a classic 20 years ago and one of the best games of a generation, that it can't be considered one of the best games ever because it doesn't stand up to today's games, that's complete nonsense.

Why? Lots of cutting edge stuff can have a habit of aging very badly. My first iPod was fantastic but let's be honest, now it's a hunk of poo. My brother had Goldeneye when it came out and I played a fair few hours of it and thought it was great at the time but would I have any interest in playing it now? Not a bit of it…

Lawnmower Man was considered state of the art when it came out but I'm sure not many are going to be saddened by it's non-inclusion on a list of 100 best special effects movies.

Retr0gamer · 06-10-2015 4:06pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I don't exactly agree with the list at all, but I'm baffled by Dark Souls being at number 1.

It was a good game, but frustrating as hell with clunky controls and a plot right out of a tumblr account. Sure it gave people some laughs watching others try to beat it, Drunk Souls is a good one for a giggle, but best game ever? Not a chance.

I'd be of the opinion that it's a good shout for best game of all time, if some told me they thought it was it's a decision I'd respect. I didn't find the controls clunky at all either. Sure they had a lot of weigth behind each action but that was the point and you could eleviate it with equipment choice. I'd go so far as to say it's the best combat system of any action RPG I've played until Bloodborne came along.

johnny_ultimate · 06-10-2015 7:15pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I don't exactly agree with the list at all, but I'm baffled by Dark Souls being at number 1.

It was a good game, but frustrating as hell with clunky controls and a plot right out of a tumblr account. Sure it gave people some laughs watching others try to beat it, Drunk Souls is a good one for a giggle, but best game ever? Not a chance.

What's always worth stressing is that it isn't the plot that necessarily makes Dark Souls' (along with its From brethren) storytelling so memorable - it's the very telling. Yes, the actual literal events are convoluted fantasy-hokum in quite a few ways, but the hokum becomes interesting due to the brave minimalism with which it is presented. Hands down, From are the best environmental storytellers about, especially with Miyazaki at the helm. Locations are loaded with mysteries, secrets and quiet little revelations (and the occasional big ones). Enemies, NPCs and bosses especially are deeply embedded in the lore, giving your actions meaning and substance. Ditto even your inventory, where the mere item descriptions further serve to help unravel and deepen the cryptic narrative. The gameplay mechanics, too, exist in impressive harmony with the world and story. That the game only has a handful of cutscenes, and fewer still with much in the way of substantive dialogue or exposition, is a very impressive feat, and rewards players willing to figure it out on their own (and, admittedly, some assistance from that wonderful online Souls community).

There are games with more 'meaning' behind their stories, that say something more challenging and intriguing. And yes, there are game plots out there that, in terms of offering an A->B story, are arguably more interesting than Dark Souls have. What few if any other games have is the articulate, experimental storytelling Dark Souls has, and when you hear the games' storytelling praised it's reliably for that instead of the actual relationships between Gwyn, the Lordvessel and the Kiln of the First Flame

da gamer · 06-10-2015 7:40pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

Why? Lots of cutting edge stuff can have a habit of aging very badly. My first iPod was fantastic but let's be honest, now it's a hunk of poo. My brother had Goldeneye when it came out and I played a fair few hours of it and thought it was great at the time but would I have any interest in playing it now? Not a bit of it…

Lawnmower Man was considered state of the art when it came out but I'm sure not many are going to be saddened by it's non-inclusion on a list of 100 best special effects movies.

Ok so we are saying that for a game to be considered in a list of best titles ever it has go stand the test of time? If that's the criteria needed then I can't argue with that. But it's a pity that we have to forget most of the 32/64 bit era then, which seems odd to say the least considering some of the revolutionary titles that were realeased in that era.

CiDeRmAn · 06-10-2015 8:10pm

Dark Souls is easily one of the best examples of games making, certainly the best using 3D space at least.
The sense of place, the way the levels you move through feel more like a coherent world consisting of layers and levels, with gloom and shafts of light bringing contrast and a desolate beauty to the backdrop of some of the best gameplay I've seen or played.
When you fail in the game it's always your fault, your fault for being too impetuous, your fault for not levelling up or buying that armour or sword, your fault for not taking the time to learn to parry, or backstab, or roll.
You explore through the ruined landscape, creeping across the unburied remains of, at times, better men and women than you who died in their own attempts to tame the world, and then you go through their pockets, or negotiate with their ghosts.
The use of co-op is certainly brilliant, and makes you recognise there are other ways to meet people online in a videogame, and you are not always promised assistance and success.
The story is told as you play, an experiential thing, in the inscribed stones, weapons and items, and of course within the online community, it's probably impossible for a single player to keep track of it all, and it is almost demanded that you use online forums to seek guidance and lore details as you make your own journey through the game.
Personally, I preferred the cut, thrust and BOOM of Bloodborne, and it's more attacking gameplay, but Dark Souls is magnificent and rewrote the book on what we can expect from a videogame, on consoles at least.
Speaking of consoles, at this point I'd guess that the best place to play Dark Souls is on PC?
Pity they didn't remaster the original along with the sequel.

EDGE 100 greatest videogames list.

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