NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

oscarBravo · 24-09-2016 8:18pm

Once again: 5G doesn't exist. The USA is unlikely to launch something next year that doesn't exist yet. A more realistic date for widespread 5G rollout is 2020.

pegasus1 · 24-09-2016 9:38pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Once again: 5G doesn't exist. The USA is unlikely to launch something next year that doesn't exist yet. A more realistic date for widespread 5G rollout is 2020.

oB, Do you think the requirements for 5G will be attainable?

ED E · 24-09-2016 10:04pm

Its all pie in the sky stuff now. Not worth discussing.

LTE is just that, Long Term Evolution. We've only just started turning on LTE-A in the last 12 months and our devices are mostly CAT4/6. We've got a whole new generation of CAT9/10 devices to go through before we even whisper the term 5G.

Johnboy1951 · 24-09-2016 10:20pm

The European Commission is to engage with local authorities to speed up the roll out of broadband to rural communities across the EU.
The initiative is aimed at making funding available to telecom operators to provide 5G connectivity in remote areas where installation is prohibitive due to cost.

So is this a mis-print 5G/4G, or is the EU really pushing for 5G networks in rural areas?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 24-09-2016 10:31pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So is this a mis-print 5G/4G, or is the EU really pushing for 5G networks in rural areas?

Read this

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/21/juncker_5g_eu_radio_spectrum_policy/

"commercial 5G in at least one town or city per EU country by 2020"

In many ways it is symptomatic of the poor standard of technology journalism in this country. See 5G mentioned, make erroneous connection with NBP, publish article.

KOR101 · 24-09-2016 10:47pm

The upside to all of this is that there isn't a chance in hell that the EU will accept any objections to the NBP.

oscarBravo · 25-09-2016 12:21am

pegasus1 wrote: »

oB, Do you think the requirements for 5G will be attainable?

I think it'll be a challenge. What's likely to be the case is a stark difference between what the standard describes as theoretically possible and what the end user experience turns out to be. Case in point: 3G is theoretically capable of 337.5Mb/s download speeds. Ever seen those sort of speeds in the wild?

Again, I'm all in favour of widely-available, decent-quality wireless connectivity. I love that I can quickly use my phone to get information or listen to music on LTE when I'm out and about, and I'd love not to have to worry about being out of coverage as much as I do. But if I had to live with LTE as my only means of Internet connectivity, I'd be pulling my hair out.

marno21 · 25-09-2016 2:56am

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think it'll be a challenge. What's likely to be the case is a stark difference between what the standard describes as theoretically possible and what the end user experience turns out to be. Case in point: 3G is theoretically capable of 337.5Mb/s download speeds. Ever seen those sort of speeds in the wild?

Again, I'm all in favour of widely-available, decent-quality wireless connectivity. I love that I can quickly use my phone to get information or listen to music on LTE when I'm out and about, and I'd love not to have to worry about being out of coverage as much as I do. But if I had to live with LTE as my only means of Internet connectivity, I'd be pulling my hair out.

Mobile networks in this country would be much more functional if they weren't being used as substitutes for fixed line connections.

Previously the NBS and nowadays people tethering 3's All-You-Can-Eat packages are creating a massive drain on the network, especially in rural areas where there may be one tower serving a large area and large swathes of the tower's footprint don't have decent fixed line access.

Vodafone's restrictiveness regarding caps is wonderful in this sense because it stops most people gobbling data on a home/business connection.

MajesticDonkey · 26-09-2016 9:10am

marno21 wrote: »

Vodafone's restrictiveness regarding caps is wonderful in this sense because it stops most people gobbling data on a home/business connection.

This is exactly why I switched to Vodafone. 4G at home (3G only with 3), getting about 10-12 times faster connection than my fixed wireless, but with a 5GB/month cap.

daraghwal · 26-09-2016 12:33pm

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

Vodafone's restrictiveness regarding caps is wonderful in this sense because it stops most people gobbling data on a home/business connection.

This is exactly why I switched to Vodafone. 4G at home (3G only with 3), getting about 10-12 times faster connection than my fixed wireless, but with a 5GB/month cap.

Same. Was with three but too many on the network using too much data. Vodafone is great and while it's annoying having only 5GB, it's much better than having an unlimited package that is too slow.

daraghwal · 26-09-2016 12:33pm

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

Vodafone's restrictiveness regarding caps is wonderful in this sense because it stops most people gobbling data on a home/business connection.

This is exactly why I switched to Vodafone. 4G at home (3G only with 3), getting about 10-12 times faster connection than my fixed wireless, but with a 5GB/month cap.

Same. Was with three but too many on the network using too much data. Vodafone is great and while it's annoying having only 5GB, it's much better than having an unlimited package that is too slow.

KOR101 · 29-09-2016 5:12pm

Eir has warned senior lenders who refuse to accept its offer of a lower rate on €1.6 billion of loans that they face the prospect of being bought out.
The telecoms group, formerly known as Eircom, has hired Goldman Sachs to seek out fresh money, both from existing senior lenders and new debt investors, should creditors currently enjoying a 4.5 per cent rate not accept a lower rate of 4 per cent, based on current market pricing, ahead of a deadline of October 7th.
In a presentation to lenders, Eir also said it would consider using liquidity resources, including cash on its balance sheet “to repay non-consenting lenders.”
Eir had €156 million of cash at the end of June and access to a €150 million revolving credit facility.
A 4 per cent return may still be seen as very attractive to investors at a time when bonds globally are yielding very little due to central bank actions. Even though Eir’s bonds are not eligible for the European Central Bank’s bond-buying programme, as the notes are below “investment grade”, investors have been snapping up such debt in recent times in a hunt for income.
Annual revenue growth
Eir, which posted annual revenue growth in the 12 months to June for the first time in eight years, has spent much of 2016 improving the profile of its debt mountain.
In early June, it sold €500 million of bonds at a market interest rate, or yield of 4.5 per cent, using most of the proceeds to refinance €350 million of notes it had sold in 2013, which were carrying an annual interest rate of 9.25 per cent. The 2013 deal took place a year after the group emerged from examinership, where its debt, following a series of ownership changes, was cut by 40 per cent to €2.3 billion.
The company moved in August to sell a further €200 million of bonds to pay off senor creditors that took part in the massive refinancing of its debt four years ago. The group has about €2.36 billion of debt, the level of which will be unchanged after the current transaction, which should shave about €10 million off its annual interest bill in the coming years.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/eir-seeks-to-impose-lower-rate-on-1-6bn-of-senior-loans-1.2810730

KOR101 · 29-09-2016 5:14pm

Vodafone is understood to be furious at the decision of the Irish Farmers’ Association (IFA) to back Eir’s bid for the National Broadband Plan (NBP).
The UK telecoms firm is competing with Eir for the Government’s broadband tender through Siro, its joint venture with the Electricity Supply Board.
At the National Ploughing Championships last week, the IFA and Eir announced a strategic tie-up which will see the farmers’ group assist the former State telco in its bid for the NBP and the take up of new services. The commercial terms of the partnership have not been disclosed.
According to industry sources, Vodafone was angered by the timing of the announcement, which comes in the middle of the tender process, and because of the company’s long-standing commercial relationship with the IFA.
Vodafone Ireland has supplied the IFA’s telecommunications arm, IFA Telecom, with mobile phone services for the past seven years.
The company declined to comment.
Lock horns
Tensions between Vodafone and Eir have ratcheted up in recent months as the two lock horns over the Government’s tender.
The IFA’s endorsement represents something of a coup for Eir with broadband coverage now a major issue in rural Ireland.
More than 80,000 farms, 94 per cent of the total, are located in a broadband black spot of one description or another.
The Government’s scheme aims to address the issue by building two high-speed networks, potentially connecting up to 927,000 homes.
In a statement, Siro said it shared the Government’s ambition to reverse the current “digital divide”.
It said rural Ireland had been poorly served by fixed-line telecommunications over the past 15 years with more than a quarter of fixed broadband connections still left with download speeds of less than 10 megabits per second (mbps) – the NBP insists on a minimum speed of 30 mbps.
“If Siro is awarded the NBP, our entire focus will be the successful delivery and consumer adoption of the programme. This will involve working closely with Government, local authorities and the many groups including the IFA,” the company said.
Raise awareness
Eir, meanwhile, said it was deploying the largest telecommunications infrastructure programme in the country, which would cover 1.9 million homes and businesses, including 300,000 already earmarked for the NBP.
“We are delighted to work with the IFA, as a voice for rural Ireland, to help us raise awareness and encourage take up of broadband as our network rollout expands,” it said.
The Department of Communications, which declined to comment on the Eir/IFA partnership, is currently in a competitive dialogue with the three shortlisted bidders, Eir, Siro and Enet prior to the final contract terms being nailed down.
The IFA also declined to comment but president Joe Healy said last week that access to high-speed broadband was critical for farm families in running their farm businesses.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/vodafone-furious-after-ifa-backs-eir-s-broadband-plan-bid-1.2808882

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-09-2016 6:19pm

For all Eir's protestations that the NBP is not that important to them it is clear to see that it very much is. The partnership with the IFA, the update to their site with a whole section dedicated to the rural rollout and the fact that they are making inroads into rural FTTH.

Siro on the other hand seem to have been left somewhat behind. There is no mention of the NBP on their site and seemingly no real engagement with rural communities.

Johnboy1951 · 29-09-2016 6:52pm

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

For all Eir's protestations that the NBP is not that important to them it is clear to see that it very much is. The partnership with the IFA, the update to their site with a whole section dedicated to the rural rollout and the fact that they are making inroads into rural FTTH.

Siro on the other hand seem to have been left somewhat behind. There is no mention of the NBP on their site and seemingly no real engagement with rural communities.

I did not see eir say the NBP was unimportant to them.
Got a link?

Based on where openeir have fibre rolling out without the NBP, it is clear the NBP is a very small part of the network, when counting customers.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-09-2016 8:31pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I did not see eir say the NBP was unimportant to them.
Got a link?

Based on where openeir have fibre rolling out without the NBP, it is clear the NBP is a very small part of the network, when counting customers.

CEO Richard Moat said in May that winning the NBP was "not life or death" for the company. Also in the article it was stated that winning was not financially critical for the company.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/eir-open-to-giving-broadband-commitment-to-300000-homes-and-businesses-400390.html

I'm not sure what your second point means. Over 900000 extra customers would be a large increase in their base.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-09-2016 8:36pm

More delays according to this article. Construction may not start until late 2017.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/coming-to-a-town-near-you-eir-to-speed-up-fibre-broadband-rollout-nationwide-35090135.html

rob808 · 29-09-2016 9:11pm

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

More delays according to this article. Construction may not start until late 2017.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/coming-to-a-town-near-you-eir-to-speed-up-fibre-broadband-rollout-nationwide-35090135.html

These delays are starting to get depressing they better do a rural FTTH network for NBP.The upside the wisps will be happy with this news,while rural people in black spot will be doing facepalms.

ItHurtsWhenIP · 29-09-2016 10:19pm

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

More delays according to this article. Construction may not start until late 2017.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/coming-to-a-town-near-you-eir-to-speed-up-fibre-broadband-rollout-nationwide-35090135.html

Gonzo · 29-09-2016 10:49pm

im in Spain atm trying to follow the latest happenings on really crappy internet!

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5673382199

So, Eir are now saying that the 300,000 premises blue line FTTH project will be completed by late 2018, considering the small initial delay and the amount of work to be done I find that very hard to believe that all will be done by 2020, never mind late 2018. There must be a huge increase in manpower coming! I know they have announced 100 new jobs but even still, this is a most ambitious statement and hats off to Eir if they can deliver this.

waalaa · 29-09-2016 10:51pm

KOR101 wrote: »

Vodafone is understood to be furious at the decision of the Irish Farmers’ Association (IFA) to back Eir’s bid for the National Broadband Plan (NBP).
The UK telecoms firm is competing with Eir for the Government’s broadband tender through Siro, its joint venture with the Electricity Supply Board.
At the National Ploughing Championships last week, the IFA and Eir announced a strategic tie-up which will see the farmers’ group assist the former State telco in its bid for the NBP and the take up of new services. The commercial terms of the partnership have not been disclosed.
According to industry sources, Vodafone was angered by the timing of the announcement, which comes in the middle of the tender process, and because of the company’s long-standing commercial relationship with the IFA.
Vodafone Ireland has supplied the IFA’s telecommunications arm, IFA Telecom, with mobile phone services for the past seven years.
The company declined to comment.
Lock horns
Tensions between Vodafone and Eir have ratcheted up in recent months as the two lock horns over the Government’s tender.
The IFA’s endorsement represents something of a coup for Eir with broadband coverage now a major issue in rural Ireland.
More than 80,000 farms, 94 per cent of the total, are located in a broadband black spot of one description or another.
The Government’s scheme aims to address the issue by building two high-speed networks, potentially connecting up to 927,000 homes.
In a statement, Siro said it shared the Government’s ambition to reverse the current “digital divide”.
It said rural Ireland had been poorly served by fixed-line telecommunications over the past 15 years with more than a quarter of fixed broadband connections still left with download speeds of less than 10 megabits per second (mbps) – the NBP insists on a minimum speed of 30 mbps.
“If Siro is awarded the NBP, our entire focus will be the successful delivery and consumer adoption of the programme. This will involve working closely with Government, local authorities and the many groups including the IFA,” the company said.
Raise awareness
Eir, meanwhile, said it was deploying the largest telecommunications infrastructure programme in the country, which would cover 1.9 million homes and businesses, including 300,000 already earmarked for the NBP.
“We are delighted to work with the IFA, as a voice for rural Ireland, to help us raise awareness and encourage take up of broadband as our network rollout expands,” it said.
The Department of Communications, which declined to comment on the Eir/IFA partnership, is currently in a competitive dialogue with the three shortlisted bidders, Eir, Siro and Enet prior to the final contract terms being nailed down.
The IFA also declined to comment but president Joe Healy said last week that access to high-speed broadband was critical for farm families in running their farm businesses.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/vodafone-furious-after-ifa-backs-eir-s-broadband-plan-bid-1.2808882

From an outside perspective it looks like eir will win the NBP, all the IFA are doing are hoping eir do win so they can tell their members they were instrumental in bringing fibre to farms and villages across Ireland. Perhaps they can negotiate a discount on eir packages for members like they currently have with vodafone. Other than a few soundbites, the IFA supporting eir is pretty insignificant.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-09-2016 11:13pm

waalaa wrote: »

From an outside perspective it looks like eir will win the NBP, all the IFA are doing are hoping eir do win so they can tell their members they were instrumental in bringing fibre to farms and villages across Ireland. Perhaps they can negotiate a discount on eir packages for members like they currently have with vodafone. Other than a few soundbites, the IFA supporting eir is pretty insignificant.

They (the IFA) are a powerful political lobby group. There is a reason they were targeted by Eir.

Johnboy1951 · 29-09-2016 11:36pm

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

CEO Richard Moat said in May that winning the NBP was "not life or death" for the company. Also in the article it was stated that winning was not financially critical for the company.

'Not life or death' is nowhere close to 'unimportant'.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/eir-open-to-giving-broadband-commitment-to-300000-homes-and-businesses-400390.html

I'm not sure what your second point means. Over 900000 extra customers would be a large increase in their base.

Of those 900k eir are to provide 300k of them with FTTH in their initial FTTH roll out (blue lines) prior to the NBP, as I understand it.
A number of the remaining are within built up areas, IIRC, which eir can 'upgrade' as time and resources allow.

Besides the locations mentioned in the link, I see that Ennis is being rolled out at present, according to a report I received from a local resident today. It seems to be being run on existing poles.

So with the 300k done by 2028 (not 2020/2021) it is not unreasonable to assume eir can spread out further from the blue lines quite easily.
They could have most of the country done by 2021 at that rate of progress. No doubt getting the NBP contract would be a huge help to them.
Even if they do not get even one of the NBP contracts, they will still have the opportunity to do a competing commercial roll out from the blue lines. They have their bases covered it seems ..... provided their progress is as good as they estimate.
We will soon know about that.

KOR101 · 29-09-2016 11:46pm

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

For all Eir's protestations that the NBP is not that important to them it is clear to see that it very much is. The partnership with the IFA, the update to their site with a whole section dedicated to the rural rollout and the fact that they are making inroads into rural FTTH.

Siro on the other hand seem to have been left somewhat behind. There is no mention of the NBP on their site and seemingly no real engagement with rural communities.

I take Vodaphone's protestations as a welcome sign that SIRO are still keen to win a NBP contract. But, I suppose the ESB was never the sort of company to be anxious about things. Unlike EIR, with it's sub-investment grade bonds.

Eir's announcement about finishing 300,000 homes by 2018 is startling. I'll be closely following Marno's postings once weekly numbers for FTTH start to appear.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-09-2016 11:50pm

KOR101 wrote: »

I take Vodaphone's protestations as a welcome sign that SIRO are still keen to win a NBP contract. But, I suppose the ESB was never the sort of company to be anxious about things. Unlike EIR, with it's sub-investment grade bonds.

Eir's announcement about finishing 300,000 homes by 2018 is startling. I'll be closely following Marno's postings once weekly numbers for FTTH start to appear.

If they appear. They should have published them in yesterday's announcement.

Johnboy1951 · 29-09-2016 11:53pm

KOR101 wrote: »

I take Vodaphone's protestations as a welcome sign that SIRO are still keen to win a NBP contract. But, I suppose the ESB was never the sort of company to be anxious about things. Unlike EIR, with it's sub-investment grade bonds.

Eir's announcement about finishing 300,000 homes by 2018 is startling. I'll be closely following Marno's postings once weekly numbers for FTTH start to appear.

I expect the fibre to be strung out to cover those 300k premises in the time period, but I also expect some delays in making connections to the premises.
Hopefully I am wrong about the delays

tsue921i8wljb3 · 30-09-2016 12:02am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

'Not life or death' is nowhere close to 'unimportant'.

Of those 900k eir are to provide 300k of them with FTTH in their initial FTTH roll out (blue lines) prior to the NBP, as I understand it.
A number of the remaining are within built up areas, IIRC, which eir can 'upgrade' as time and resources allow.

Besides the locations mentioned in the link, I see that Ennis is being rolled out at present, according to a report I received from a local resident today. It seems to be being run on existing poles.

So with the 300k done by 2028 (not 2020/20210) it is not unreasonable to assume eir can spread out further from the blue lines quite easily.
They could have most of the country done by 2021 at that rate of progress. No doubt getting the NBP contract would be a huge help to them.
Even if they do not get even one of the NBP contracts, they will still have the opportunity to do a competing commercial roll out from the blue lines. They have their bases covered it seems ..... provided their progress is as good as they estimate.
We will soon know about that.

You are the one using the word unimportant. I said "not that important" as in "not life or death". However I think it is very important to them and their future profitability.

I personally don't believe the Openeir timelines. We have already seen that one FTTH deadline is going to be missed by them. Now today they come out with another ambitious plan shaving two years off a previous announcement. I believe it is all aimed at pressuring the decision makers in the DCCAE to award them the NBP.

The thought of them proceeding with a commercial rollout against a state sponsored competitor is highly unlikely.

rob808 · 30-09-2016 12:10am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I expect the fibre to be strung out to cover those 300k premises in the time period, but I also expect some delays in making connections to the premises.
Hopefully I am wrong about the delays

The question will be if they win part of the NBP in late 2017.They would have do both there commercial rural rollout and the NBP at the same time the goverment will more than likely make sure of it if they are reward a contract.

Johnboy1951 · 30-09-2016 12:21am

rob808 wrote: »

The question will be if they win part of the NBP in late 2017.They would have do both there commercial rural rollout and the NBP at the same time the goverment will more than likely make sure of it if they are reward a contract.

I'm not sure that would make any difference TBH ...... they would have to pass through the 'blue line' areas in any case with the fibre.

rob808 · 30-09-2016 12:37am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I'm not sure that would make any difference TBH ...... they would have to pass through the 'blue line' areas in any case with the fibre.

They would need two teams one for there commercial rural rollout and NBP rollout.The NBP contract come with penalty if they don't hit targets it be interesting to see how they handle the blue lines areas with the NBP if they win a contract.

KOR101 · 30-09-2016 9:32am

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The thought of them proceeding with a commercial rollout against a state sponsored competitor is highly unlikely.

Competing directly against a subsidised company is not on, but doing an emergency style rollout in the area they lose, and then having the map changed, is possible.

Johnboy1951 · 30-09-2016 9:32am

rob808 wrote: »

They would need two teams one for there commercial rural rollout and NBP rollout.The NBP contract come with penalty if they don't hit targets it be interesting to see how they handle the blue lines areas with the NBP if they win a contract.

If both are rolling out fibre why 'two teams'?

To get to the NBP areas they will have to go through the 'blue line' areas, so the two are complimentary.

KOR101 · 30-09-2016 4:36pm

He said Eir has not received any confirmation as to whether the 300,000 FTTH homes in its own rollout would constitute part of the Government’s intervention, costed at over €500m, or not.

I love this. We'll just tell the government our plan, and ignore the process which has been put in place to change the intervention area.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/eir-fibre-ireland

Johnboy1951 · 30-09-2016 4:41pm

KOR101 wrote: »

He said Eir has not received any confirmation as to whether the 300,000 FTTH homes in its own rollout would constitute part of the Government’s intervention, costed at over €500m, or not.

I love this. We'll just tell the government our plan, and ignore the process which has been put in place to change the intervention area.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/eir-fibre-ireland

If eir shows credible signs of rolling out the blue line areas then the gov will have to take those areas out of the NBP.
The gov has no choice in the matter.

KOR101 · 03-10-2016 9:43pm

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/national-broadband-plan-ireland-what-next

A contract being awarded in mid 2017, naturally would mean first connections towards the end of 2017.

legocrazy505 · 03-10-2016 10:07pm

KOR101 wrote: »

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/national-broadband-plan-ireland-what-next

A contract being awarded in mid 2017, naturally would mean first connections towards the end of 2017.

Kind of expected it to take time once the contract is handed out though if it's Eir or something I'm sure they'll have prep work started since they should be chipping away at their commercial rollout. I think at this point we can assume Eir will be the ones dealing with most if not all the country given the IFA have thrown their weight behind them.

The rollout will definitely begin from the word go but people shouldn't assume that means opportunities to connect to the network will be there immediately.

11-10-2016 1:36am

Somewhat related to this thread:

Study – £224bn Needed to Cover All EU Homes with 1Gbps Broadband

daraghwal · 11-10-2016 4:42pm

FINALLY! Confirmation that it will be PREDOMINANTLY FTTH https://twitter.com/christinafinn8/status/785855207548780545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
http://www.thejournal.ie/budget-2017-liveblog-3020304-Oct2016/ "One for anyone living in a broadband blackspot*: €15 million is being allocated to progress the procurement of the National Broadband Plan to provide high-speed broadband to areas of rural Ireland."

KOR101 · 11-10-2016 5:38pm

€15m? What the hell.

daraghwal · 11-10-2016 5:54pm

KOR101 wrote: »

€15m? What the hell.

Extra added on to the initial amount maybe? Or is that all they're going to get for 2016?

daraghwal · 11-10-2016 5:56pm

It's not all good news either http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/news/delay-in-rollout-of-state-subsidised-broadband-plan-but-fibretohome-on-the-way-35121990.html

KOR101 · 11-10-2016 6:06pm

There have been additional complexities to make sure local providers can avail of the infrastructure

Presumably that's the wireless ISPs. Any ideas what the difficulties might be?

rob808 · 11-10-2016 6:19pm

KOR101 wrote: »

There have been additional complexities to make sure local providers can avail of the infrastructure

Presumably that's the wireless ISPs. Any ideas what the difficulties might be?

I say it be the cost of accessing the infrastructure,plus the wisp would have to change there business model and then there the state aid rules seem pretty complexity to me.
I hope I get my FTTH of eir rural rollout or I'm looking at 2018 to be connected to FTTH.

jd · 11-10-2016 6:26pm

KOR101 wrote: »

There have been additional complexities to make sure local providers can avail of the infrastructure

Presumably that's the wireless ISPs. Any ideas what the difficulties might be?

Setting up an agreed interface for order/provisioning could take some time, the WISPs would need some SI work with their existing systems too. And they don't have deep pockets.

ED E · 11-10-2016 6:33pm

Its really wasting money to try and allow the small WISPs in on this game.

Handovers are done with MPLS at regional POPs, if you've BigLar say with his "Core" on the top of a hill in Waterford to migrate into the NBP he'd have to rent floor space in a Co-Lo facility and purchase a rack full of kit. Licence AAA packages and be fairly IT literate in specific technolofgy. Thats probably a year to three worth of turnover. Just not practical.

The other option is to provide a white label service but then thats basically false competition and serves no purpose (o2 DSL, Three DSL for example).

oscarBravo · 11-10-2016 8:11pm

jd wrote: »

Setting up an agreed interface for order/provisioning could take some time, the WISPs would need some SI work with their existing systems too. And they don't have deep pockets.

Setting up an agreed interface for order/provisioning is part and parcel of the project, and has been from day one. It kinda goes with the territory of an open access network.

It doesn't need to be a big deal to work with such an interface. Several regional ISPs are already dealing with open eir's ordering system, and some of us are gearing up to work with SIRO's now as well.

It's only reasonable that an open access network should have an agreed ordering and provisioning interface, but it's also only reasonable to expect that anyone who wants to sell retail services will have to put in the integration work.

ED E wrote: »

Its really wasting money to try and allow the small WISPs in on this game.

Handovers are done with MPLS at regional POPs, if you've BigLar say with his "Core" on the top of a hill in Waterford to migrate into the NBP he'd have to rent floor space in a Co-Lo facility and purchase a rack full of kit. Licence AAA packages and be fairly IT literate in specific technolofgy. Thats probably a year to three worth of turnover. Just not practical.

The other option is to provide a white label service but then thats basically false competition and serves no purpose (o2 DSL, Three DSL for example).

The important thing is that it's possible to interconnect regionally. There may be a temptation to say "you can interconnect in one of these Dublin data centres", but that's a very legacy way of looking at the Internet: customers in the regions only want to connect to the Internet, which starts on the east coast.

This ignores developments like the enormous transatlantic capacity in Killala, as well as applications like connecting branch offices throughout a region to servers in a head office in the same region. It makes no sense whatsoever to trombone all that traffic through Dublin, so it should be possible for a regional provider to interconnect with the NBP network in the region.

Now, that will require that the regional provider have the expertise to make those interconnects work, but - to be fair - most of them do, or at least have the nous to acquire it.

9726_9726 · 12-10-2016 12:07am

daraghwal wrote: »

It's not all good news either http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/news/delay-in-rollout-of-state-subsidised-broadband-plan-but-fibretohome-on-the-way-35121990.html

Bad news indeed. Very restrictive data limits

> one gigabyte

If the minister does not know hits bits from his bytes.....

Also releasing lots of new 3.6GHz spectrum to improve mobile coverage? Nonsense. Plus it's already released for years. Just being re-auctioned.

Pull the other one, minister. And go back to Comms 101.

Gooser14 · 12-10-2016 12:18am

He was confusing his bits & bytes on Primetime also. Bad form really.

9726_9726 · 12-10-2016 12:18am

ED E wrote: »

Its really wasting money to try and allow the small WISPs in on this game.

Handovers are done with MPLS at regional POPs, if you've BigLar say with his "Core" on the top of a hill in Waterford to migrate into the NBP he'd have to rent floor space in a Co-Lo facility and purchase a rack full of kit. Licence AAA packages and be fairly IT literate in specific technolofgy. Thats probably a year to three worth of turnover. Just not practical.

The other option is to provide a white label service but then thats basically false competition and serves no purpose (o2 DSL, Three DSL for example).

Many larger regional ISPs have been colo'd in DEG/Telecity/Interxion/CIX for years with all of the above facilities. Lots of them operate LIRs, peer on INEX, have interconnects with Openeir, BT, Enet, etc. already. Another L2 interconnect would be a piece of piss.

As for order provisioning, etc, why would this be any different to the UG, etc?

You may be correct regarding the very smallest WISPs but they won't survive.

Also, many of the regional ISPs offer connectivity over platforms other than fixed wireless so the term "WISP" doesn't apply to all. I'm sure these larger operators are who our esteemed minister is referring to. And of course they must be offered access or hey, it's illegal state aid in favour of large foreign multinationals.

ED E · 12-10-2016 12:43am

oscarBravo wrote: »

The important thing is that it's possible to interconnect regionally. There may be a temptation to say "you can interconnect in one of these Dublin data centres", but that's a very legacy way of looking at the Internet: customers in the regions only want to connect to the Internet, which starts on the east coast.

This ignores developments like the enormous transatlantic capacity in Killala, as well as applications like connecting branch offices throughout a region to servers in a head office in the same region. It makes no sense whatsoever to trombone all that traffic through Dublin, so it should be possible for a regional provider to interconnect with the NBP network in the region.

Now, that will require that the regional provider have the expertise to make those interconnects work, but - to be fair - most of them do, or at least have the nous to acquire it.

Thats the nice thing about Eirs NGA, its routed locally. So if you connect to next door its You ->Cab->Exchange->Cab->Next Door and thus very very low latency.

9726_9726 wrote: »

Many larger regional ISPs have been colo'd in DEG/Telecity/Interxion/CIX for years with all of the above facilities. Lots of them operate LIRs, peer on INEX, have interconnects with Openeir, BT, Enet, etc. already. Another L2 interconnect would be a piece of piss.

As for order provisioning, etc, why would this be any different to the UG, etc?

You may be correct regarding the very smallest WISPs but they won't survive.

Also, many of the regional ISPs offer connectivity over platforms other than fixed wireless so the term "WISP" doesn't apply to all. I'm sure these larger operators are who our esteemed minister is referring to. And of course they must be offered access or hey, it's illegal state aid in favour of large foreign multinationals.

Thats where there we have to ask which WISPs they're talking about. The bigger players like Nova obviously will have no problem but the community/1-4 site guys won't really be able to play.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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