31 extra penalty point offences with effect from 1 April

Aquos76 · 24-01-2006 7:20pm #1

More details below, but no mention of what the offences are going to be.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0124/penalty.html

mike65 · 24-01-2006 7:29pm

Whopee-do now all they need to do is enforce them....hurmph! :mad:

Mike.

Turner · 24-01-2006 7:30pm

Thank God.

Hopefully for the following offences...

Crossing a white line
Dangerous overtaking
Dangerous parking
Failing to keep to the left lane
Passing a red traffic light
Parking in a disabled bay
Excessively worn tyres
No brake lights
Trucks not using speed limiter / taking regular breaks / Overladen

johnplayerblue · 24-01-2006 7:54pm

It is about time, but as mike said all that has to be done now is to make sure that unlike sooo many other laws there enforced. I've just posted on another thread about the nct and the theroy test been a waste of time and money and basically just a rip off. If them fools on kildare st were really intrested in saving peoples lives and keeping road users safe as possable on the roads the laws of the land need to be enforced. If people are hit where it hurts and hit hard and not given x amount of chances i think you would see a big drop in road deaths. Look at the pubs when the smoking ban came in, if ur caught its a big fine, and by and large it has worked. Money is the answer and if you don't pay you go to jail and loose your car. If you owe the inland revinue moneys you do what your told or else, why can't the same approach be taken when up to 400 more people are likley to be killed this year. Bye and large i have the idiots that are on the our roads in mind when posting this and hope that there is a large amount of them in the probable 400 but life been what it is i doubt it

CrowdedHouse · 24-01-2006 8:45pm

mike65 wrote:

Whopee-do now all they need to do is enforce them....hurmph! :mad:

Mike.

Exactly,they can't/won't/couldn't be bothered enforcing the ones we have already

Devon · 25-01-2006 1:24am

I know this link doesn't say what the new offences will be, but here goes:

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/penalty_points.html

Provisional licence holders without a full licence holder take note...

FuzzyWuzzyWazza · 25-01-2006 5:14am

I just wish they would enforce this one!!!

Driving vehicle with 50mph speed limit on outside traffic lane of motorway

jhegarty · 25-01-2006 11:08am

jerryadams wrote:

I know this link doesn't say what the new offences will be, but here goes:

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/penalty_points.html

Provisional licence holders without a full licence holder take note...

looks like an old page , includes reference to 50mph

Henry Ford III · 25-01-2006 11:43am

Even enforcement is the key.

It's not being done now and without significant improvement in manpower and resources for the Gardai nothing will change.

More offences on the statute books will do nothing.

seamus · 25-01-2006 11:46am

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/ used to have a list of "Offences coming down the road", but they're obviously updating the site to include these new ones.
www.archive.org may have the old pages archived (that site is blocked for me here, so I can't check).

About bloody time anyway.

MikeHunt · 25-01-2006 4:20pm

Some interesting additions alright.

Slighty sidetracked, but with regards unaccompanied provisional drivers... if stopped by the cops and a friend is in the car who doesn't have a full license, presumably you could just tell the garda they do and it's your word against theirs, or is that not the case?

I expect you're not obliged to carry your license on you when you're not driving, but perhaps if you're supervising a learner driver this changes. Maybe someone has experience of this.

mike65 · 25-01-2006 4:23pm

They might well ask you and your friend to show your licences at the cop shop. In which case you are f*cked as you lied!

Mike.

Seth Brundle · 25-01-2006 4:56pm

MikeHunt wrote:

Some interesting additions alright.

Slighty sidetracked, but with regards unaccompanied provisional drivers... if stopped by the cops and a friend is in the car who doesn't have a full license, presumably you could just tell the garda they do and it's your word against theirs, or is that not the case?

I expect you're not obliged to carry your license on you when you're not driving, but perhaps if you're supervising a learner driver this changes. Maybe someone has experience of this.

Im sure that the gardai may state that it is your responsibility as the driver to make sure you are abiding with the law.

25-01-2006 5:00pm

FuzzyWuzzyWazza wrote:

I just wish they would enforce this one!!!

Driving vehicle with 50mph speed limit on outside traffic lane of motorway

Yes Yes Yes Please enforce this one.

el tel · 25-01-2006 5:19pm

If using a mobile phone when driving is not a specific offence yet, it's
high time it becomes one. I see it every day, usually coupled with either
running red lights or failing to move off at green lights. It's quite incredible the number of girls I see getting into their cars and driving off with the phone up to their ear. Talk about multi-tasking.

dahamsta · 25-01-2006 5:27pm

They should have reverse penalty points too:

2 points for mispronouncing the word "vehicle".
4 points for deprioritising an accident attendance.
6 points for speeding to the doughnut shop, or other extraneous location.
8 points for making exceptions for Goverment Ministers.
10 points for making exceptions for Goverment Ministers while escorting them.
12 points for a checkpoint on a straight, recently-built dual-carriageway.
38 points, 6 endorsements, permanent loss of licence, RFID implant, and a funt up the arse by every Irish citizen if you're Michael McDowell, for just generally being an arrogant, hyproctical, authoritarian arsehole.

adam

mike65 · 25-01-2006 5:38pm

OT (OTT) methinks...though I agree about veh-hick-ill.

Mike.

seamus · 25-01-2006 6:30pm

MikeHunt wrote:

Slighty sidetracked, but with regards unaccompanied provisional drivers... if stopped by the cops and a friend is in the car who doesn't have a full license, presumably you could just tell the garda they do and it's your word against theirs, or is that not the case?

I don't have a link right now, but to the best of my knowledge, the fully licenced driver accompanying a provisional driver is also obliged to carry their licence while in the vehicle.

The logic here is that you're not in the car with him so that your provisionally licenced mate can drive to the shops/offlicence/chipper, you're in the car with him so you can teach him how to drive, ergo the driving is premeditated.

Alun · 25-01-2006 6:33pm

seamus wrote:

The logic here is that you're not in the car with him so that your provisionally licenced mate can drive to the shops/offlicence/chipper, you're in the car with him so you can teach him how to drive, ergo the driving is premeditated.

I'm assuming too (although you never know) that the accompanying driver has to be in a state where he/she could legally be in charge of a motor vehicle ... e.g. not drunk. Any ideas?

seamus · 25-01-2006 6:49pm

I have to double-check these things, but yeah afaik the accompanying driver has to be legally capable of driving the vehicle too (obviously broken limbs may not count, I'm talking mentally).

seamus · 25-01-2006 7:00pm

From the Road Traffic Act, 1994, Section 25

40.—(1) ( a ) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying pursuant to regulations under this Act the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, the production to him of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the said person to drive the vehicle, and if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he shall be guilty of an offence.

I'll have a look for the other bit when I get home.

seamus · 25-01-2006 8:11pm

Right, saddo that I am (I'm waiting for my rice to cook, OK?) I had a look. As best I can see, nowhere does it say that the accompanying driver must be of sound mind. However, it does state the provisional driver must be "under the supervision" of a qualified driver. So, it's no leap of the imagination to say that if someone is asleep, hammered, or otherwise engaged*, then the provisionally licenced driver is not being supervised.

One interesting thing I did drag up though:

ROAD TRAFFIC (LICENSING OF DRIVERS) REGULATIONS, 1999.
Section 19.

(c) (i) The condition set out in paragraph (b) (iv) of this sub-article shall not apply while the holder of the licence is driving a vehicle in the course of undergoing a driving test or driving a vehicle of a category in respect of which he or she holds a valid certificate of competency, or, where that certificate contains a statement that in relation to a category of vehicle it is limited to a specified type of vehicle, while he or she is driving a vehicle of that type.

Paragraph (b) (iv) just states that a provisionally licenced driver must be accompanied. Therefore, if you have your cert. of compentency, you don't legally have to wait for your full licence before you can drive unaccompanied.

*I do recall a case recently where a provisional driver was charged with driving unaccompanied. His fully-licenced brother and his girlfriend, her *ahem* in the back seat.

Seth Brundle · 26-01-2006 1:13am

Listening to Oireachts Report just now it mentioned how driving on a hard should will get you points.
I wonder will this apply to the practice (as recommended in the Rules of the Road) of moving onto it to let someone overtake you?

Johnny Storm · 26-01-2006 11:37am

Another thing they need to do, if they want to make penalty points an effective deterent to dangerous driving is to get them out to you faster. I got points in mid-Jan apparently from a camera van or similar in mid-November which I did not see. I could well have gotten quite a few more points between those two events but there was no deterrent effect until I got the letter two months after the original speeding offense.

Sleipnir · 26-01-2006 11:41am

They can make using one hand on the wheel a penalty point offence if they want but it won't make a blind bit of difference if the Gardai aren't pulling people over for it.

netwhizkid · 26-01-2006 8:08pm

I wonder are people aware that Martin Cullen plans to privatise the Speed Cameras and Speed traps. If anyone ever had the private clamper experience then this will thousands of times worse. Am I the only one who feels leached with Cullen over this. They should be controlled by the state and the fines used to promote road safety rather than going into foreign investors wallets. :mad: :mad:

mike65 · 26-01-2006 8:14pm

http://www.carpages.co.uk/news/penalty-points-22-01-06.asp?switched=on&echo=990338439

Does anyone have a full list of peno points transgresions? I did'nt hear anything about mobile phones or lights.

Mike.

BrianD3 · 26-01-2006 9:00pm

Unbelievable as it may seem, I think all the talk in the media about these additional penalty point offences may *already* have had an effect on driver behaviour. I drove a few hundred miles today and went through numerous roadworks with temp traffic lights. It was noticable how few drivers broke red lights. Usually, there's droves of them.

Of course if there is an effect it will wear off as drivers realise there isn't a cop around every bend waiting to hand out penalty points for bad driving.

Also re: trucks in the overtaking lane of a motorway The vast majority of Irish motorways are two lanes each way and trucks are perfectly entitled to use the overtaking lane on these roads. So there won't be many points handed out for "Driving vehicle with 50mph speed limit on outside traffic lane of motorway"

Hobbes · 26-01-2006 9:02pm

One thing I can't figure out is, WTF have drivers been charged with when they get stopped for the crap that is being added to the points system up until this point?

Why weren't these in sooner?

Also on the news this morning they can now stop you and ask for a breath test off you. Pub carparks at the weekends are planned to be hit.

BrianD3 · 26-01-2006 9:11pm

Hobbes wrote:

One thing I can't figure out is, WTF have drivers been charged with when they get stopped for the crap that is being added to the points system up until this point?

I would say the number of drivers getting pulled for most of these offences at the moment is miniscule and I doubt things will change much just because the offences now carry penalty points. Think about how difficult it would be on the Irish road network to catch and succesfully prosecute drivers for "dangerous overtaking". With speeding at least speed can be measured using a laser gun and it's easy to set up a static speed trap on a stretch of urban 60 km/h dual carriageway. These "new" offences will be more difficult and subjective.

Litcagral · 26-01-2006 9:22pm

BrianD3 wrote:

I drove a few hundred miles today and went through numerous roadworks with temp traffic lights. It was noticable how few drivers broke red lights. Usually, there's droves of them.QUOTE]

I've heard anecdotally that one is unlikely to be prosecuted for contravening temporary traffic lights (eg. at road works). Apparently judges are reluctant to convict offenders as the lights may not have been programmed correctly. Does anyone know if this is true or more about this?

While I am on the subject, if one exits at a junction onto a road with temporary traffic lights and the junction is between both sets of lights and one cannot see either set of lights from the exit, can one legally proceed? It's easy enough when the road is busy but difficult to guess which direction has right of way when the road is quiet.

Alun · 26-01-2006 10:11pm

Litcagral wrote:

While I am on the subject, if one exits at a junction onto a road with temporary traffic lights and the junction is between both sets of lights and one cannot see either set of lights from the exit, can one legally proceed? It's easy enough when the road is busy but difficult to guess which direction has right of way when the road is quiet.

Such situations simply shouldn't be allowed to exist. There should be traffic lights on any side roads between the temporary lights also, surely?

Litcagral · 26-01-2006 10:16pm

Alun wrote:

Such situations simply shouldn't be allowed to exist. There should be traffic lights on any side roads between the temporary lights also, surely?

We had this situation for several weeks in my locality. One had to make a guess when traffic was light and inevitably got it wrong sometimes. Oncoming motorists would "flash" their lights etc. assuming you had broken a red light on the other side.

Alun · 26-01-2006 10:19pm

Litcagral wrote:

We had this situation for several weeks in my locality. One had to make a guess when traffic was light and inevitably got it wrong sometimes. Oncoming motorists would "flash" their lights etc. assuming you had broken a red light on the other side.

Hmmm, I'm tempted to make an "Only in Ireland!" comment there ... that's just pure madness!!!

elexes · 27-01-2006 12:47am

theres some that i think are a bit harsh .

instance failure to show your lisence . i know in the past ive been stopped twice without a lisence mainly because i was making a 2 min trip and forgot to bring my wallet no speeding etc was involved just chk point

also think that parking in a dangerous position tho dangerious and has 5 points is mear pittance compaired to the Driving Vehicle before remedying dangerous defects 3 points or Driving a vehicle against traffic flow on a motorway 2 points

im also very happy about the breath tests going to happen outside well established places . im sure after the inital shock of people seeing a cop car outside a pub/club they will realise its only for the best .

also "No adequate driving mirror"
now would this be side mirrors or would this be the rear view mirror or what ?

Panda Moanium · 27-01-2006 8:53pm

Having quickly scanned the new penalty points in the paper today, what does 'Failing to turn left when entering a roundabout' mean?

Also, there is one that says HGV's and (I think) buses cannot use the outside lane of motorways. Does that apply even on 2 lane motorways?

Alun · 27-01-2006 9:40pm

Having quickly scanned the new penalty points in the paper today, what does 'Failing to turn left when entering a roundabout' mean?

I assume it means doing the only other alternative, i.e. turning right or in other words, going round the wrong way!!! Another one for an immediate ban followed by a compulsory re-test if you ask me, the same as driving the wrong way down a motorway

ciarsd · 27-01-2006 10:43pm

todays Irish Times has the 'supposed' list of additional offences.

the one that stood out (well a lot of em did) was the offence of HGVs/Trucks/Busses/Coaches using the overtaking lane on motorways

Litcagral · 27-01-2006 11:21pm

Alun wrote:

Another one for an immediate ban followed by a compulsory re-test if you ask me, the same as driving the wrong way down a motorway

This is not as dramatic as it sounds. it is intended to curtail the practice of reversing up the hard shoulder when one has missed an exit off the motorway.

Seth Brundle · 28-01-2006 2:44pm

Litcagral wrote:

This is not as dramatic as it sounds. it is intended to curtail the practice of reversing up the hard shoulder when one has missed an exit off the motorway.

...but will also apply to ex-FF ministers on their way home from a booze up!

seamus · 30-01-2006 2:27pm

Panda Moanium wrote:

Having quickly scanned the new penalty points in the paper today, what does 'Failing to turn left when entering a roundabout' mean?

As Alun says, it's about going the correct way around a roundabout. The law says "A driver will enter a roundabout by turning to the left", but that doesn't mean that if you don't actually turn left (i.e. you don't need to turn the wheel to go straight through) when entering, you're in trouble. I'm surprised that they saw a need to include this as a pointable offence - how often do non-foreign drivers get caught going the wrong way around a roundabout?

MrPudding · 30-01-2006 2:36pm

seamus wrote:

As Alun says, it's about going the correct way around a roundabout. The law says "A driver will enter a roundabout by turning to the left", but that doesn't mean that if you don't actually turn left (i.e. you don't need to turn the wheel to go straight through) when entering, you're in trouble. I'm surprised that they saw a need to include this as a pointable offence - how often do non-foreign drivers get caught going the wrong way around a roundabout?

I have seen a few driver in Irish regged cars doing it. Try to save the environment by using less fuel I expect.

MrP

Blitzkrieger · 30-01-2006 4:22pm

So if I was to report somebody as being parked dangerously, how exactly would they get convicted/penalised? I'd love to have seen the muppet who left his truck parked across from a T-junction down the street from my house (and left it there all weekend) get 5 penalty points. Even if I called traffic watch or the local station and got a garda to come out and see the vehicle causing a hazard, couldn't the driver just waltz (or conga if he prefers) up to the garda and say he wasn't the one who parked it there?

31 extra penalty point offences with effect from 1 April

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