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Live self-Builds - mod warning in post no. 1

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    893bet wrote: »
    Starting to come together.

    Hoping to start elextrical second fix next week and plumbing second fix to follow!

    Looking good. Ready to start plastering myself now. Did you put air tight tape between floor and walls? Is it common practice for the plaster to be finished so far from the floor?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    Looking good. Ready to start plastering myself now. Did you put air tight tape between floor and walls? Is it common practice for the plaster to be finished so far from the floor?

    I am waiting for an Airtightness test to see how much leakage is at this junction. If there is a significant amount I will taping also.

    That is common as the skirting will be covering. The sand and cement coat went all the way down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    893bet wrote: »
    Starting to come together.

    Hoping to start elextrical second fix next week and plumbing second fix to follow!

    The middle image shows some sort of hood for the stove? Can I ask what this is for?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    BarneyMc wrote: »
    The middle image shows some sort of hood for the stove? Can I ask what this is for?

    I installed a poujoulat chimney system. See below link and some attached pics.

    http://www.poujoulat.co.uk/produit/9/17/1/twin-wall-insulated-chimney-system/therminox-ti-zi.html

    Its a fab system but if I could go back i would have installed standard block chimneys


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    Just had my first Airtightness test.

    Air permability 2.65 m3/hr/m2
    Air change per hr 2.34

    Very happy with that given that there are still several weak points in the house yet to be addressed and the fact that I did all the Airtightness detailing myself! Had visions of an 8.4 or worse.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,831 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    893bet wrote: »
    Just had my first Airtightness test.

    Air permability 2.65 m3/hr/m2
    Air change per hr 2.34

    Very happy with that given that there are still several weak points in the house yet to be addressed and the fact that I did all the Airtightness detailing myself! Had visions of an 8.4 or worse.

    Air change per hour is approx 'air permability divided by 20'

    How did you tester calculate the ac/hr )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Air change per hour is approx 'air permability divided by 20'

    How did you tester calculate the ac/hr )

    I have no idea and may have gotten mixed up in the results and units. The 2.65 is correct as this is the one we spoke at length about. Should be able to get well below 2 for final test which I will be happy with.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,831 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I think he's probably given you the q50 and n50 figures.

    For your final Ber cert your assessor will divide the q50 by 20 for the air changes per hour figure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    just do it wrote: »
    Stickybookmark

    Have you looked into PV panels to satisfy Part L rather than a HP? Also have you an airtightness target and detail to eliminate thermal bridges?

    Now's the time.....

    Thanks. I'm not having HP to satisfy part L. I'm having it coz I want to heat my house cheaply!

    Don't know what the air tightness target is, will check. I know the builder is going to do a test at the end though.

    Thermal bridges - quinnlite blocks are going on top of the deadwork at the thermal bridge. These were delivered this morning actually glad to know I'm doing my bit to pay IBRC's bad debts :pac::pac:

    And there's goign to be a tape/membrane put around teh windows (right to the outside of the opening) to seal them, that's for air tightness as well


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    lownhard wrote: »

    BTW using a heat pump will lend to UFH upstairs but that will require min 25mm of insulation on top of the slab.

    Because you are using a slab in your construction drawings I would allow 100mm on top of slab/200mm slab/200mm service cavity below slab. Basically allow min 500mm between GF ceiling and finsihed floor level on the FF.

    Hmm...I only have 150mm service cavity in the GF ceiling/FF floor.
    This has to take the HRV ducting and allow a slope for foul pipes.
    This was deemed to be enough by project manager/engineer will revisit.
    Only thing is a good bit of height has been taken off my rooms already from the original plans, don't really wanna take any more off unless I absolutely have to.

    I've never heard this in bold. I had insulation in the GF ceiling/FF floor and the builder insisted, and I mean insisted on taking it out coz waste of money when you have a concrete slap first floor. I asked my bro who has a concrete slab FF (and UF heating incidentally) and he said correct you don't need insulation for noise when you have a concrete slab first floor. But you're right any photos I've seen the UF heating pipes are placed on the insulation so wonder how they're gonna place them on the FF floor...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc



    I've never heard this in bold. I had insulation in the GF ceiling/FF floor and the builder insisted, and I mean insisted on taking it out coz waste of money when you have a concrete slap first floor. I asked my bro who has a concrete slab FF (and UF heating incidentally) and he said correct you don't need insulation for noise when you have a concrete slab first floor. But you're right any photos I've seen the UF heating pipes are placed on the insulation so wonder how they're gonna place them on the FF floor...

    The insulation on the FF floor is nothing to do with noise. It is to stop the heat from your FF UFH pipework seeping into the slab and getting it into the bedrooms where it belongs. Also, it makes it easy for your UFH installer to pin the UFH pipework to. My installer can work with 25mm and I'll probably just use that as I think 50mm insulation on the FF is a bit overkill. I think (no expert) the pipework can still be installed without insulation but it might be a lot of work to fix to the concrete slab. Also, as I've said, you'll probably see a lot of heat soak into the slab before it reaches your bedrooms.

    I can't see any need for insulation in the GF ceiling!

    I stand corrected on all of this!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    BarneyMc wrote: »
    The insulation on the FF floor is nothing to do with noise. It is to stop the heat from your FF UFH pipework seeping into the slab and getting it into the bedrooms where it belongs.

    I wanted insulation originally coz of noise (in my parent's house you can hear everything upstairs/downstairs - so annoying)

    Never thought of that about the heat from UFH going down instead of up if no insulation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Thanks. I'm not having HP to satisfy part L. I'm having it coz I want to heat my house cheaply!

    Don't know what the air tightness target is, will check. I know the builder is going to do a test at the end though.

    Thermal bridges - quinnlite blocks are going on top of the deadwork at the thermal bridge. These were delivered this morning actually glad to know I'm doing my bit to pay IBRC's bad debts :pac::pac:

    And there's goign to be a tape/membrane put around teh windows (right to the outside of the opening) to seal them, that's for air tightness as well

    You're ticking a lot of the boxes in fairness. My goal is to reduce the heating demand in the first instance and the more you do this the longer the payback period on your heating system. For example if you're heating bill for the year is €500, is it really worth a few grand to get it down to €200? Maintenance and running costs alone might negate the saving.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    just do it wrote: »
    You're ticking a lot of the boxes in fairness. My goal is to reduce the heating demand in the first instance and the more you do this the longer the payback period on your heating system. For example if you're heating bill for the year is €500, is it really worth a few grand to get it down to €200? Maintenance and running costs alone might negate the saving.

    Yeah I know.

    I had a 2 hour meeting with the HP supplier yesterday in their office. A very good guy, a young-ish guy. He knew his stuff I'd have to give him that. I am starting to think I should have gone for ASHP. Must check if it isn't too late to change.
    It was very interesting learning about how the system works inside the house. Hot water priority etc. We went through the diagram of all the pieces of kit. Debate is raging as to whether GSHP goes inside or outside the house but now I'm thinking might not even get GSHP :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    My gaff today.
    Complete with services inlet for GSHP (which I'm not sure I even want now after meeting with HP supplier yest) in the utility!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    Yeah I know.

    I had a 2 hour meeting with the HP supplier yesterday in their office. A very good guy, a young-ish guy. He knew his stuff I'd have to give him that. I am starting to think I should have gone for ASHP. Must check if it isn't too late to change.
    It was very interesting learning about how the system works inside the house. Hot water priority etc. We went through the diagram of all the pieces of kit. Debate is raging as to whether GSHP goes inside or outside the house but now I'm thinking might not even get GSHP :confused:

    Yes, it is hard to know which HP type to go with. I've decided to go the ASHP route. There are lots of discussions on here with pros and cons for both. I can't see why it's too late for you to change your mind as you're just starting your build.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    I think he's probably given you the q50 and n50 figures.

    For your final Ber cert your assessor will divide the q50 by 20 for the air changes per hour figure.

    That is possible!

    There is still the proper front door to go in. Its just an osb frame at the moment so alot of leakage here. MVHR supply/extract pipes were sealed but they werent 100% sealed so will gain some more for the next test here. Some leaks around window board areas to be fixed. Thresholds to be taped etc.

    <2 should be comfortable to achieve which I would be happy with.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it



    Sounds like you're caught in the middle. In fairness it's a reversal that's welcome and common sense. It's just a pity Big Phil hadn't listened at the time. Unlike him to create legislation that subsequently haunts his colleagues he has left behind :rolleyes:


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,831 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just do it wrote: »
    Sounds like you're caught in the middle. In fairness it's a reversal that's welcome and common sense. It's just a pity Big Phil hadn't listened at the time. Unlike him to create legislation that subsequently haunts his colleagues he has left behind :rolleyes:

    its going to leave a lot of builds in legal limbo.....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    I think he's probably given you the q50 and n50 figures.

    For your final Ber cert your assessor will divide the q50 by 20 for the air changes per hour figure.

    My builder has said these are the air tightness target levels for the test:

    Q50 <3 m3/m2hr
    N50 <3 ACH

    Are these acceptable for a house with HRV ? I've read through my provisional BER and can't seem to find a value for target ac/h


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    lownhard wrote: »

    Because you are using a slab in your construction drawings I would allow 100mm on top of slab/200mm slab/200mm service cavity below slab. Basically allow min 500mm between GF ceiling and finsihed floor level on the FF.

    My FF floor is 75mm concrete/UF htg pipes/150mm slab/150mm service cavity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    Do you also have insulation on top of the concrete slab also stickybookmark??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    My builder has said these are the air tightness target levels for the test:

    Q50 <3 m3/m2hr
    N50 <3 ACH

    Are these acceptable for a house with HRV ? I've read through my provisional BER and can't seem to find a value for target ac/h

    Less than 3 is the minimum value I understand for a house with Hrv, or at least that is what is commonly quoted as the cut off. About that and it is more difficult justify the cost of the Hrv.

    Less than 3 is good. Less than 2 is better, less than 1 is.....etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    delfagio wrote: »
    Do you also have insulation on top of the concrete slab also stickybookmark??

    On the FF? Nope, builder insisted on taking the insulation out
    So no insulation on the FF floor

    Christ I'm soo p!ssed off with the lot of them today. Stress has reached an all time high !! :mad::mad::mad:
    Feel like the builder just wants to plough ahead with the build regardless of whether it's structurally sound/to my taste and the engineer just wants to certify the whole thing at the end but doesn't want to be involved in any design questions.
    Feeling disillusioned with the whole lot of em right now !!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    On the FF? Nope, builder insisted on taking the insulation out
    So no insulation on the FF floor

    Christ I'm soo p!ssed off with the lot of them today. Stress has reached an all time high !! :mad::mad::mad:
    Feel like the builder just wants to plough ahead with the build regardless of whether it's structurally sound/to my taste and the engineer just wants to certify the whole thing at the end but doesn't want to be involved in any design questions.
    Feeling disillusioned with the whole lot of em right now !!!

    I feel your pain. Except for an odd one or two I've had to argue points with the lot of them. Very stressful indeed!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    I had insulation in the GF ceiling/FF floor and the builder insisted, and I mean insisted on taking it out coz waste of money when you have a concrete slap first floor.

    I can understand removing the insulation in the ground floor ceiling (no point if you have concrete first floor) but the insulation on the FFL under the pipework is a must; did the builder actually remove it ?

    Do you have perimeter insulation around the rounds before the screed goes in ?

    What height are the ceilings now ? Have you the height to put 20/50mm insulation in?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    On the FF? Nope, builder insisted on taking the insulation out
    So no insulation on the FF floor

    Christ I'm soo p!ssed off with the lot of them today. Stress has reached an all time high !! :mad::mad::mad:
    Feel like the builder just wants to plough ahead with the build regardless of whether it's structurally sound/to my taste and the engineer just wants to certify the whole thing at the end but doesn't want to be involved in any design questions.
    Feeling disillusioned with the whole lot of em right now !!!
    Are you not just at ground floor level( according to photos)? If you want it which I think you should you should Just tell your builder your putting the insulation on the first floor. End off. Has he priced for the laying of it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    Are you not just at ground floor level( according to photos)? If you want it which I think you should you should Just tell your builder your putting the insulation on the first floor. End off. Has he priced for the laying of it?

    No it was removed at tender stage so he never even priced for it. He was emphatic that it's not needed as the upstairs floor is inside the heated envelope of the house etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    I would TELL him that you insist on putting the insulation on the 1st floor slabs. It will increase the contract price seen as he didn't price for it originally, but I wouldn't imagine by much. You can agree a figure up front between you prior to doing it.

    If you went with at least 50mm floor insulation sheets and 50mm perimeter insulation around external walls, it will be much better than no insulation. I have 50mm on my first floor.

    It is so much easier to rectify this issue now before its done, than try do it later when it's too late.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    No it was removed at tender stage so he never even priced for it. He was emphatic that it's not needed as the upstairs floor is inside the heated envelope of the house etc.

    It's at most two days work for a carpenter to do upstairs (unless it's a hotel your building). I'd advise you to insist on doing it. You definitely need the perimiter insulation anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Sligoronan


    No it was removed at tender stage so he never even priced for it. He was emphatic that it's not needed as the upstairs floor is inside the heated envelope of the house etc.

    what sort of a genius came up with that.
    Who instructed to have it removed off the tender. Did your arch/eng know about this what was there opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    Sligoronan wrote: »
    what sort of a genius came up with that.
    Who instructed to have it removed off the tender. Did your arch/eng know about this what was there opinion.

    the perimeter insulation is there alright it's the floor insulation was taken out.
    Builder said because it's all inside the heated envelope of the house it's not needed and he refused to quote for it although we had it on tender spec. I also asked a family member who also has a concrete slab FF and he said yep insulation is only needed in wooden frame FF there's no need for it in concrete slab FF

    The AC/Engineer had no opinion on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet



    The AC/Engineer had no opinion on it.
    This is common. On here often a question is meet with "what does your eng say" or "your eng should be specing this detail, why are you asking these questions here"

    Sadly with many eng/arch you have to second guess details. This is why I sacked off my architect who specified no perimeter insulation as that is only needed if putting in ufh. Builder doing foundations agreed. Engineers also said it was fine with out.

    Hence none was put in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    Wihoo, finally got our finished liquid floor screed poured today on both ground floor and 1st floor. Looks great so far, feels like we have got another big milestone done now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭homewardbound11


    God lads. I'm so glad I got to self build 5 years ago . In putting out for quotations I asked each builder simple questions and from that I decided to go for self build. Shockingly some of the engineers comments were back in 1991.

    Recently saw 2 house renovation construction drawings/ plans . One was a total gutting and extension . The other was a large extension doubling of the size. I know they are not required but the construction drawings had 100mm cavity with 60mm insulation and 50mm insulated plaster board on perimeter inner leaf . No effort at all really.

    Best of luck ,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    I'm trying to decide on what insulation to put on my first floor. Liquid screed man tells me to put 25mm eps 100. Says its cheaper than PIR and better for sound insulation. Lad selling me the insulation says its cheaper alright but less thermally efficient and the same for sound insulation. I'm putting UFH in 40mm liquid screed. It is sitting on plywood, then engineered eco joists filled with rockwool for sound insulation (after weeks of insulating I really hate fibre glass :mad:). So what are your views? EPS or PIR?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    Superdaddy wrote:
    I'm trying to decide on what insulation to put on my first floor. Liquid screed man tells me to put 25mm eps 100. Says its cheaper than PIR and better for sound insulation. Lad selling me the insulation says its cheaper alright but less thermally efficient and the same for sound insulation. I'm putting UFH in 40mm liquid screed. It is sitting on plywood, then engineered eco joists filled with rockwool for sound insulation (after weeks of insulating I really hate fibre glass ). So what are your views? EPS or PIR?


    Hi super daddy,

    I am similar to yourself. My build up is as follows;

    1.) Open web joists, think they are 274mm deep,
    2.) On top of the joists there was 22mm OSB Board sheeting laid for the 1st floor.
    3.) 50mm PIR Floor Insulation with UFH pipes and
    4.) 50-55mm liquid screed,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    I can understand removing the insulation in the ground floor ceiling (no point if you have concrete first floor) but the insulation on the FFL under the pipework is a must; did the builder actually remove it ?

    Do you have perimeter insulation around the rounds before the screed goes in ?

    What height are the ceilings now ? Have you the height to put 20/50mm insulation in?

    Which insulation comes in 20mm ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    delfagio wrote: »
    Hi super daddy,

    I am similar to yourself. My build up is as follows;

    1.) Open web joists, think they are 274mm deep,
    2.) On top of the joists there was 22mm OSB Board sheeting laid for the 1st floor.
    3.) 50mm PIR Floor Insulation with UFH pipes and
    4.) 50-55mm liquid screed,

    Thats a pretty serious floor. My joist are 225mm, 18mm WBP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    Superdaddy wrote:
    Thats a pretty serious floor. My joist are 225mm, 18mm WBP.


    Yea the timber frame company designed the floor loading to suit UFH screed as it was something we wanted, plus we had our own concerns about any noise been heard through the floors from bedrooms or living rooms etc. Think that's why the joists so big, and there at 400centres approximately,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    Apologies, just had a look there last night and its actually 254mm Open Web Joists not 274mm, my mistake. :rolleyes:

    Went to the house this morning to see how the screed was doing since been poured yesterday. I didn't walk on it just yet as I'd rather wait till this evening to give it a little chance longer to dry and harden up, so just literally open the outside doors and stuck my head inside to look around, but bloody hell, the condensation in the place is unreal. The windows are soaking wet.....

    All the windows are open about an inch or two since yesterday to let air get in and around the screed. Really hope the weather picks up in the next few days so I can open the windows more to let more air get in, but typical Irish weather ha ha RAIN :mad::mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    Second fix plumbing coming on!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    Can only attach one photo at a time for some reason?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭893bet


    Solar in place!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1 thewhiterobbie


    Hi all have loved reading through this thread ... Starting our 2nd self build this weekend with site being cleared , lot of lessons learned during first build which was only 5 years ok so hopefully better equipped to deal with the pressures of it this time around.. Posting here as I'll need lots of advice although this is 2nd time round things seem to have progressed so much over past few years ..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Mac0783


    Hi, skimming through this thread, it's very detailed! We have a pre-planning meeting with Roscommon Co Co tomorrow. I was wondering if anyone had any dealings with them and any advice? Also any advice for dealings with Councils in general when looking for planning in a village?


    thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭FiOT


    Mac0783 wrote: »
    Hi, skimming through this thread, it's very detailed! We have a pre-planning meeting with Roscommon Co Co tomorrow. I was wondering if anyone had any dealings with them and any advice? Also any advice for dealings with Councils in general when looking for planning in a village?


    thanks

    Hiya,

    Don't know if I am much help but I'll answer you anyway as I was in your position earlier in the year and I know it's tough.

    I recently got planning permission in Meath in what they call a "graig", I guess you could be generous and call it a village, it's a small 50km zone with a school and a shop down the road. The 50km zone was a big factor in us getting permission, they kind of want cluster development in low speed zones so that new entrances are less obstructive.

    One thing I would say is take a look at their development plan if you haven't already. I know in Meath they are very strict on the design of a new build, they stick very much to the guidelines as per the plan.

    Pre planning meetings are great depending on what stage you're at. We didn't bother going before we designed our house as really all they can tell you at that stage is whether the land is zoned for housing etc, they have nothing concrete to comment on. We went with our drawings and engineer though just before submission and the planner was able to give us lots of pointers on small changes we could make to ensure that there would be no further information requests; e.g. having chimney on the inside on house, having house in line with others on the road, wording of planning submission etc.

    I may be able to answer questions better than come up with information as I don't know what exactly you're looking for!

    Best of luck - exciting times!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭db


    893bet wrote: »
    Solar in place!

    From the shadow cast on the roof it looks like you have fairly optimal roof direction for your solar. I have the exact same setup as you - 40 tubes and a 300L tank (I think that's what you have) on a south facing roof. With the sun we have had the last few days I have been getting a full tank > 50°C so you should be achieving similar to that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Mac0783


    Thanks Fiot, there is no zoning in this village, if that makes sense I looked that up. And whilst it's within the 50 km zone it's up a a road adjacent to the village ,there are a number of other houses on the road, last built circa. 2004 I think, so I'm hoping no recent applications is a good thing. We're not local to the area I think that might be our main stumbling block.. Also the house will be behind another house - however with a good entrance and a good distance behind but not inline with the other houses so I'm worried that's an issue.

    I have no plans drawn up, haven't purchased site yet but have plans for another house on the road, and have printed some house fronts that I like to give an idea of what we want. hoping that will help


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