Transit data now on Google Maps

expectationlost · 27-11-2013 10:59am #1

Transit data now on Google Maps

https://twitter.com/googlemaps/status/405606955797839874

don't see where to share directions does this link work for people

https://www.google.ie/maps/preview#!data=!4m29!3m20!1m5!1sBalbriggan!2s0x486722c374970fb3%3A0xa00c7a99731d490!3m2!3d53.6083194!4d-6.1820798!1m4!3m2!3d53.3178208!4d-6.3940196!6e2!3m8!1m3!1d3008013!2d-8.21775!3d53.3834!3m2!1i1680!2i948!4f13.1!5m2!13m1!1e1!7m4!11m3!1m1!1e1!2b1&fid=0

expectationlost · 27-11-2013 11:11am

http://api.irishrail.ie/realtime/index.htm

and the bus version ?

stop · 27-11-2013 11:32am

This is fantastic!
It includes private services so I assume its using NTA data?
Much much easier to use than the NTA site.

Alun · 27-11-2013 11:33am

Looks OK, but the bus stop names for some of the stops near me in Bray are bizarre. The two stops on Herbert Road near Ardmore Wood rejoice under the names Golden Hill and Clarke Group (?), the next one just after you turn into Killarney Lane is also confusingly called Golden Hill and the next one on Killarney Road, just after the junction with Killarney Lane is called Greystones Road (Windgates) !!

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 11:39am

The only caution I would make is that these are using the working timetables - sometimes with lighter/heavier traffic buses will be faster/slower - so use with care!

stop · 27-11-2013 11:47am

The bus stop names come from the NTA listings, which are not perfect, as they describe a service terminus as a stop - e.g. in the case of the
65 towards Hawkin House / 65 towards Main Street/Valleymount Road
or
18 towards ESB Simulator Centre / 18 towards Hollyville Lawn

Alun · 27-11-2013 12:00pm

stop wrote: »

The bus stop names come from the NTA listings, which are not perfect, ...

That's odd because the National Journey Planner appears to have the correct names, i.e. the same as the ones on the DB website.

stop · 27-11-2013 12:18pm

Alun wrote: »

That's odd because the National Journey Planner appears to have the correct names, i.e. the same as the ones on the DB website.

You're right - they seem to have the stop positions correct, but in some cases the stop name & number is wrong - one of the stops you found is actually on the 65 if you check the stop ID number.

bk · 27-11-2013 12:32pm

At last, fantastic news

I see it is also working on Google Maps on iPhone.

However the intercity directions seem to be a bit quirky to say the least.

For instance try Dublin To Cork.

It seems to think the center of Cork is Lancaster Quay and thus recommends taking the Aircoach first and then taking a Cork City Bus to Lancaster Quay. In Reality most people would say Patricks Street is the center of Cork and a short walk from the Aircoach Stop.

It doesn't display the Go Bus Service, unless I change the destination to Patricks Street and select Bus as the preferred option.

I can only force it to display to X8 if I select Busaras and Parnell Place as destination/location!

Similar problems with Galway, it seems to think the center of Galway is Dominick Street Lower rather then Eyre Square!

At least it shows Go Bus, City Link and the x20 as options to get to Galway by default which is better then Cork, but it bizarrely recommends taking a bus/Luas from O'Connell St to go relatively short distances to the GoBus/CityLink stops.

Great to see it includes directions to Northern Ireland and that the options to Belfast are ok (train, Aircoach, BE/UB by default), however again it often recommends taking the 700 and 747 to Dublin Airport first, that could catch out tourists for a nasty expensive surprise.

Again Dublin to Limerick is a little crazy, they seem to think that the center of Limerick is in some housing estate called Rockspring Gardens!

When the NTA planner started, it had similar issues, with nonsensical locations for common city and town centers. The NTA fixed this, hopefully Google will too.

Alun · 27-11-2013 12:33pm

Yes, the bus stop on Herbert Road heading into Dublin is 2993 (Herbert Road), whereas on Google Maps it's shown as stop 4063 (Golden Hill), which as you point out is actually on the 65 route on the N81 Blessington Road !!!

bk · 27-11-2013 12:35pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The only caution I would make is that these are using the working timetables - sometimes with lighter/heavier traffic buses will be faster/slower - so use with care!

Is it not using RTPI, that seems silly!!

Goggle Transit uses RTPI in other cities.

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 12:41pm

bk wrote: »

Is it not using RTPI, that seems silly!!

Goggle Transit uses RTPI in other cities.

If the bus hasn't left yet - it is using the working timetable.

Someone could be planning a journey for later today or tomorrow.

It is a bit difficult to use real times for a bus that hasn't departed.

Also, for a long route, a bus that has departed could get to certain stops further along the route earlier/later than predicted - DB don't have waiting points en route. The RTPI applies the working timetable times from wherever the bus to give predictive times.

What I am saying is that like all journey planners - allow some wriggle room!

bk · 27-11-2013 1:06pm

lxflyer wrote: »

What I am saying is that like all journey planners - allow some wriggle room!

Of course, what I'm asking is does it use RTPI for live, in service Bus/Dart/Luas?

Alun · 27-11-2013 1:25pm

bk wrote: »

Of course, what I'm asking is does it use RTPI for live, in service Bus/Dart/Luas?

Easy way to find out ... plan a short journey later on today at the end of a long route like the 145 close to Kilmacanogue and see if it shows 6 buses all showing up in the space of 1 minute

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 1:31pm

Having checked a couple of samples, it is using the working schedule rather than live data for Dublin Bus.

What cities use live data for the buses?

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 2:17pm

It's using schedules for Irish Rail also.

TheBandicoot · 27-11-2013 2:48pm

Do you only get this if you opt into the new version of Google Maps?

bk · 27-11-2013 2:57pm

lxflyer wrote: »

It's using schedules for Irish Rail also.

Well that is disappointing and less useful.

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Do you only get this if you opt into the new version of Google Maps?

Unfortunately it seems so, yes.

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 3:03pm

Can you give a few examples of cities that use live data for buses?

I'm not sure that this is such a massive issue, as most use planners like this for potential journeys that they are going to make, and use the live app as they're moving around.

bk · 27-11-2013 4:04pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Can you give a few examples of cities that use live data for buses?

Boston, Honolulu, San Francisco, London, Madrid, Torino, Italy, New York City, etc.

They use the GTFS-realtime specification to do this:

http://www.google.com/help/maps/mapcontent/transit/live-updates.html

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not sure that this is such a massive issue, as most use planners like this for potential journeys that they are going to make, and use the live app as they're moving around.

For tourists it is, I know when travelling abroad, I've frequently used Googke Transit including realtime data to get around. If you are only visiting somewhere for a few days, you are less likely to know about and download separate apps.

Also since this is a new project and they already have the RTPI data, I would have assumed that they would jump directly to this, rather then just static timetables.

Specially given how bad DB are to keeping to schedule.

dublinman1990 · 27-11-2013 4:19pm

This is a good tool for providing public transport information although I had an issue with regarding getting the news from an e-mail from the NTA in which they sent up the wrong link. I than went to boards and found the link from expectationlost in the very first post. Thanks for doing that because that was a real problem.

I did a couple of examples from Blackrock to either Bray, UCD, Sandymount and Stillorgan & Foxrock Church for the various modes while using it on Chrome.

The times on the buses are very good when going from Blackrock to UCD when using the 17 which gave me a time of 15 minutes which I know is the average journey time for that part of the route.

Another example I did was from Blackrock to Bray between driving, using the train or cycling.

The average times were as follows

Train 43 minutes (This is slow due to lower line speeds)
Cycle 47 minutes (This was the quickest time as there's a difference of 7 minutes longer while going through Mt. Merrion)
Drive 16 minutes (Depending on traffic levels now it went up to 24 minutes as current time)

Overall, not a bad effort from Google.

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 4:29pm

bk wrote: »

Boston, Honolulu, San Francisco, London, Madrid, Torino, Italy, New York City, etc.

They use the GTFS-realtime specification to do this:

http://www.google.com/help/maps/mapcontent/transit/live-updates.html

For tourists it is, I know when travelling abroad, I've frequently used Googke Transit including realtime data to get around. If you are only visiting somewhere for a few days, you are less likely to know about and download separate apps.

Also since this is a new project and they already have the RTPI data, I would have assumed that they would jump directly to this, rather then just static timetables.

Specially given how bad DB are to keeping to schedule.

London does not - it is also schedule based for buses.

I think your last comment is somewhat unfair. By and large as a multiple daily user I find buses DO show up when they are supposed to.

bk · 27-11-2013 4:43pm

lxflyer wrote: »

London does not - it is also schedule based for buses.

London Underground so:

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/datablog/2012/apr/03/london-underground-google-maps

lxflyer wrote: »

I think your last comment is somewhat unfair. By and large as a multiple daily user I find buses DO show up when they are supposed to.

I don't. They obviously match RTPI times, but in my experience they are pretty awful at sticking to the per bus stop timetables.

Alun · 27-11-2013 4:49pm

bk wrote: »

I don't. They obviously match RTPI times, but in my experience they are pretty awful at sticking to the per bus stop timetables.

They're not bad at, or close to, their starting points but especially for long routes, the closer you get to the end, the more fairytale-like the scheduled times become.

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 4:50pm

Do the other cities use live information for buses?

I am specifically asking about buses.

bk · 27-11-2013 5:11pm

Alun wrote: »

Easy way to find out ... plan a short journey later on today at the end of a long route like the 145 close to Kilmacanogue and see if it shows 6 buses all showing up in the space of 1 minute

We aren't talking about the bus timetable schedule posted at bus stops, that is just a useless schedule of the time the bus leaves the terminus.

What we are talking about is the schedule that DB maintains and which the NTA has now made available via their journey planner of scheduled time for each bus at each bus stop.

lxflyer wrote: »

Do the other cities use live information for buses?

I am specifically asking about buses.

Sigh, yes, here is just one example:

http://www.itsmarta.com/developers/data-sources/marta-bus-gtfs-realtime.aspx

Again Atlanta Georgia showing Dublin how public transport should be done!!

Along with fully integrated bus/rail stations, one ticket that does both bus and train and the fact that they introduced their version of the Leap card 7 years ago and completely eliminated cash fares after just 6 months of the of the product being introduced. Oh and you can top-up and have tickets that you bought online added to the card on the bus.

You know magical stuff that seems to be impossible for DB to do!

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 5:25pm

There is no need to be smart - I was merely asking the question.

bk · 27-11-2013 6:10pm

lxflyer wrote: »

There is no need to be smart - I was merely asking the question.

The sigh was because it seems I have to do your homework for you. There is no reason why you couldn't look it up yourself. A 10 second google found this info.

There is loads of info about GTFS-realtime out there, it is all mostly open source and pretty transparent.

LXFlyer · 27-11-2013 6:20pm

bk wrote: »

The sigh was because it seems I have to do your homework for you. There is no reason why you couldn't look it up yourself. A 10 second google found this info.

There is loads of info about GTFS-realtime out there, it is all mostly open source and pretty transparent.

I merely asked a simple question about google maps.

You had earlier stated London, but I knew this wasn't the case. I was merely asking about the buses in other cities.

I'm sorry I bothered now.

expectationlost · 27-11-2013 7:01pm

http://www.gtfs-data-exchange.com/agencies/bylocation
http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFeeds
don't us listed anywhere

expectationlost · 27-11-2013 7:06pm

says public, is not http://dublinked.com/datastore/datasets/dataset-300.php

expectationlost · 27-11-2013 7:06pm

so is google using this http://dublinked.com/datastore/datasets/dataset-254.php

and these http://dublinked.ie/datastore/by-agency/NTA.php

expectationlost · 10-07-2014 2:54pm

http://www.transportforireland.ie/transitData/PT_Data.html The contents of this page changes to reflect the current public transport schedules on the day the page is accessed.

expectationlost · 28-08-2018 6:26pm

a dart station is not being used by google maps directions when its clearly the closest one to me, the station seems to be missing from the map, blue icon not there, I tried to send feedback last week not sure it got anywhere.

Victor · 28-08-2018 9:35pm

expectationlost wrote: »

a dart station is not being used by google maps directions when its clearly the closest one to me, the station seems to be missing from the map, blue icon not there, I tried to send feedback last week not sure it got anywhere.

Which station? Feedback to NTA / Irish Rail might be better than feedback to Google.

expectationlost · 28-08-2018 9:37pm

Victor wrote: »

Which station? Feedback to NTA / Irish Rail might be better than feedback to Google.

does it matter? I did try to find an NTA GTFS data contact and emailed him today.

Victor · 28-08-2018 9:43pm

expectationlost wrote: »

does it matter?

Over a year of two, I reported about 100 items to Google Maps. I don't think any were acted on.

GM228 · 29-08-2018 10:34am

Victor wrote: »

Over a year of two, I reported about 100 items to Google Maps. I don't think any were acted on.

Like all mapping services they only act when there are multiple error reports relating to each error as one or two error reports are not considered accurate enough to act on.

Tom Tom devices for example let you download user changes based on your preference and how many times errors are reported, i. e implement infrequently reported errors which are not guaranteed to be accurate or just implement highly reported errors which are more likely to be accurate.

expectationlost · 29-08-2018 11:45am

GM228 wrote: »

Like all mapping services they only act when there are multiple error reports relating to each error as one or two error reports are not considered accurate enough to act on.

Tom Tom devices for example let you download user changes based on your preference and how many times errors are reported, i. e implement infrequently reported errors which are not guaranteed to be accurate or just implement highly reported errors which are more likely to be accurate.

its only takes one look to see that the station is missing.

danm14 · 29-08-2018 11:38pm

expectationlost wrote: »

a dart station is not being used by google maps directions when its clearly the closest one to me, the station seems to be missing from the map, blue icon not there, I tried to send feedback last week not sure it got anywhere.

Howth Junction?

According to Google Maps, DARTs stop at Kilbarrack twice and don't serve Howth Junction at all. Passengers changing for Howth off a Commuter train are told to change at Kilbarrack, even though no Commuter trains stop there.

Seemingly someone has reported Howth Junction as being a duplicate of Kilbarrack and this has been accepted.

bk · 30-08-2018 11:06am

expectationlost wrote: »

its only takes one look to see that the station is missing.

You have to keep in mind that Google Maps is a world wide project, the Maps support team probably receive tens of thousands of corrections from all over the world every day.

A human probably doesn't even see the correction until after a certain number of corrections from different users for the same location are submitted. I'm sure there is an entire complex process system that sits between you and the staff who review them.

expectationlost · 30-08-2018 4:17pm

bk wrote: »

You have to keep in mind that Google Maps is a world wide project, the Maps support team probably receive tens of thousands of corrections from all over the world every day.

A human probably doesn't even see the correction until after a certain number of corrections from different users for the same location are submitted. I'm sure there is an entire complex process system that sits between you and the staff who review them.

so how many people were involved in messing it up?

expectationlost · 01-09-2018 9:39pm

Howth Junction station blue icon showing but still not being taken in to account re public transit directions

shanec1928 · 05-09-2018 9:14pm

bk wrote: »

You have to keep in mind that Google Maps is a world wide project, the Maps support team probably receive tens of thousands of corrections from all over the world every day.

A human probably doesn't even see the correction until after a certain number of corrections from different users for the same location are submitted. I'm sure there is an entire complex process system that sits between you and the staff who review them.

Anytime I’ve reported issues on apple maps with business closed etc the max I’ve waited was 3 -4 weeks for it to be updated.

expectationlost · 07-09-2018 6:45pm

got a response from NTA, which forwarded response from Google saying "it was glitch on their end"

it works now.

Transit data now on Google Maps

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