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New €10bn transport investment programme

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    #92
    Metroboulot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Metroboulot


    If you were going to spend money on public transport in Cork City the place to start would be enhancing the bus network and routes. They're not frequent enough and the routes still could be a lot better.

    A train to Youghal will not have any benefit to the city and will just duplicate services to a medium size town almost out of commuter belt distance.

    The urgent areas that need public transit solutions in Cork are Carrigaline and Ballincollig. That could be achieved for now with greatly enhanced bus services but probably something like Luas would make sense and should be planned in by reserving land.

    I honestly think a short motorway to Carrigaline is also far, far more urgent for Cork's needs than linking Cork to Limerick. It impacts tens of thousands of people on a regular basis, Cork Limerick would be nice but I think it's not as pressing as a rapidly growing suburb/satellite that's still linked by a small rural road despite being bigger than most "major" Irish towns.

    I'd also think perhaps it might make more sense to route it cross country via the Cork Airpott and into that side of Carrigaline rather than funnelling more traffic into the Doiglas / Mahon side of the N40 and it would mean greatly enhanced access to the airport and maybe getting rid of the remaining roundabout at Kinsale Road entirely that is under the N40 overpass.


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    #93
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Metroboulot wrote: »
    A train to Youghal will not have any benefit to the city

    if done right i don't see how it couldn't. trains would be going to the city surely? surely the whole idea would be to get people out of the cars? a bus is less likely to do that as history seems to show in this country
    Metroboulot wrote: »
    will just duplicate services to a medium size town almost out of commuter belt distance.

    the whole rail network mostly duplicates bus services. so i don't see how that would be a problem for youghal. for what its worth i don't see the train returning to youghal in my life time but existing bus services shouldn't be the reason

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #94
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Metroboulot wrote: »
    If you were going to spend money on public transport in Cork City the place to start would be enhancing the bus network and routes. They're not frequent enough and the routes still could be a lot better.

    A train to Youghal will not have any benefit to the city and will just duplicate services to a medium size town almost out of commuter belt distance.

    The urgent areas that need public transit solutions in Cork are Carrigaline and Ballincollig. That could be achieved for now with greatly enhanced bus services but probably something like Luas would make sense and should be planned in by reserving land.

    I honestly think a short motorway to Carrigaline is also far, far more urgent for Cork's needs than linking Cork to Limerick. It impacts tens of thousands of people on a regular basis, Cork Limerick would be nice but I think it's not as pressing as a rapidly growing suburb/satellite that's still linked by a small rural road despite being bigger than most "major" Irish towns.

    I'd also think perhaps it might make more sense to route it cross country via the Cork Airpott and into that side of Carrigaline rather than funnelling more traffic into the Doiglas / Mahon side of the N40 and it would mean greatly enhanced access to the airport and maybe getting rid of the remaining roundabout at Kinsale Road entirely that is under the N40 overpass.

    Cork city and county councils have a long term plan/ ambition to have a BRT system from town past UCC -CUH -CIT and out to Balincolig -
    They'd like to start at carrigaline and into town but apparently the population density / journey generating density (whatever ) isn't there - even the balincolig bit is touch and go -
    It could be 20 or 30 years before they get to it but they've been looking towards for decades -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #95
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    end of the road wrote: »
    if done right i don't see how it couldn't. trains would be going to the city surely? surely the whole idea would be to get people out of the cars? a bus is less likely to do that as history seems to show in this country



    the whole rail network mostly duplicates bus services. so i don't see how that would be a problem for youghal. for what its worth i don't see the train returning to youghal in my life time but existing bus services shouldn't be the reason

    If roads have capacity , which many around cork do. There's no particular reason to get " people out of cars " , maybe get them into EVs etc ( that's coming ). But car transport is the preferred mode of tranport in Ireland and we live in a democracy


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    #96
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,469 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    BoatMad wrote: »
    If roads have capacity , which many around cork do. There's no particular reason to get " people out of cars " , maybe get them into EVs etc ( that's coming ). But car transport is the preferred mode of tranport in Ireland and we live in a democracy

    EV's are even worse for the environment in terms of resources and production, if that the direction you're coming from.
    There's every reason to get people out of cars everywhere. 1 person per car anywhere is the least sustainable option, especially if you're having to provide PT regardless. Having a load of empty buses running because everyone is in their democracy-mobile is idiotic. Just because the current infrastructure is coping does not mean it could not be better used in terms of better cycling lanes or wider footpaths or more pedestrian areas etc.


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    #97
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    EV's are even worse for the environment in terms of resources and production, if that the direction you're coming from.
    There's every reason to get people out of cars everywhere. 1 person per car anywhere is the least sustainable option, especially if you're having to provide PT regardless. Having a load of empty buses running because everyone is in their democracy-mobile is idiotic. Just because the current infrastructure is coping does not mean it could not be better used in terms of better cycling lanes or wider footpaths or more pedestrian areas etc.

    EVs represent the best way of reducing local emissions and yet enjoying the freedom of personal transport. Li batteries are recyclable etc

    This is the future of cars EVs are faster more powerful and better all round cars the petrol. Once battery range exceed 300 miles, within the next 5 years , EV sales will explode , who can resist 1.8 cents/ km

    Public transport is an 19 the century transport model being poorly adapted to issues generated by congestion , it's a sticky plaster solution. It's simply tolerated that's all.

    In our distributed living , distributed shopping and workplace today , public transport is an enormous consumption of public money, which benefits relatively few people.
    A rail line to youghal would be the ultimate waste of public money benefiting a minority of people , similar to the Ennis Athenry fiasco

    Nothing wrong with walking or cycling as long as the majority method of transport get priority


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    #98
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    NIMAN wrote: »
    How much are we getting up here in Donegal?

    Tsk, we're supposed to wait until self-drive electric cars magically come in.

    :/


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    #99
    Metroboulot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Metroboulot


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Cork city and county councils have a long term plan/ ambition to have a BRT system from town past UCC -CUH -CIT and out to Balincolig -
    They'd like to start at carrigaline and into town but apparently the population density / journey generating density (whatever ) isn't there - even the balincolig bit is touch and go -
    It could be 20 or 30 years before they get to it but they've been looking towards for decades -

    The vital thing is that it's planned in now though. Retrofitting tramways or other transit lines is far more difficult. Just open the routes and use them as cycle ways or something for now and zone development at future stops.

    That's how sane countries do it anyway.


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    #100
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Metroboulot wrote: »
    The vital thing is that it's planned in now though. Retrofitting tramways or other transit lines is far more difficult. Just open the routes and use them as cycle ways or something for now and zone development at future stops.

    That's how sane countries do it anyway.
    All in the luts plan for cork - only problem is city and co.councils are aware of some bits and forget others -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #101
    cros13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭cros13


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Tsk, we're supposed to wait until self-drive electric cars magically come in.

    :/

    There are 5 EV rapid chargers (0-80% charge in 20 minutes) in Donegal. And yes, my EV also has limited self-driving (adaptive cruise with autonomous steering)... does just over 180km in the real world for €1.40 worth of 'leccy and (with a small controller hack) does 0-100 in 5.5 seconds (stock is 6.5).

    Welcome to 2015... :D


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    #102
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    cros13 wrote: »
    There are 5 EV rapid chargers (0-80% charge in 20 minutes) in Donegal. And yes, my EV also has limited self-driving (adaptive cruise with autonomous steering)... does just over 180km in the real world for €1.40 worth of 'leccy and (with a small controller hack) does 0-100 in 5.5 seconds (stock is 6.5).

    Welcome to 2015... :D

    They've removed some of the chargers in Derry. Oh, and that many in Donegal, huh?


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    #103
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    They've removed some of the chargers in Derry. Oh, and that many in Donegal, huh?

    Ireland is well served with chargers given the current EV population of about 1000 cars


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    #104
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Metroboulot wrote: »
    The vital thing is that it's planned in now though. Retrofitting tramways or other transit lines is far more difficult. Just open the routes and use them as cycle ways or something for now and zone development at future stops.

    That's how sane countries do it anyway.

    Open them as cycleways and they will never be allowed by cycling lobbyists to be used for public transport again. The former Belfast and County Down mainline is the case in point.


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    #105
    cros13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭cros13


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    They've removed some of the chargers in Derry. Oh, and that many in Donegal, huh?

    I think you are mixing up standard chargers with rapid chargers. The roadside standard charger rollout has stopped because people largely don't use them, preferring to charge at home for day to day and at rapid chargers for long journeys (i.e. more than 150-200km). Some roadside chargers that were faulty were removed instead of being replaced.

    The rapid chargers on the other hand are big boxes about the size of a large fridge. They are fed with up to 100kW of power (7-8 household supplies at full tilt). The Derry rapid charger is at a Maxol station on Glendermot road (there is only one in Derry itself, but in Co Derry there are two, the other is in Maghera).
    There are five rapid chargers in Donegal and lots of standard chargers as well. But the rapids are what EV owners actually care about.


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    #106
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Open them as cycleways and they will never be allowed by cycling lobbyists to be used for public transport again. The former Belfast and County Down mainline is the case in point.


    lets not forget weak governments/authorities/councils are as much if not more to blame here. the BCDR could have been reopened if the will to do it was actually there. realistically what are the cycle lobby going to do? the government would have more money then they would ever have, the cycle funding could be removed among other things to make things difficult if needs be for them. it takes will and strong government and being prepared to see things through

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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