TV3 Widescreen

Charles Slane · 01-12-2004 11:10am #1

According to todays Irish Mirror, TV3 has announced that it will commence widescreen broadcasts next summer as an extra for digital viewers.

I guess that means we'll be able to see the full width of the Ireland AM presenters on satellite.

Hopefully RTE will follow suit.

Widescreen · 01-12-2004 3:06pm

That's a good positive bit of news Charles. Wonder will it shame our National Broadcaster into reciprocal action??

JDxtra · 01-12-2004 10:42pm

Very intresting. Especially since RTE handle all the transmission for TV3.

They're probably sick of having to change the aspect ratio of all the feeds from ITV!

Charles Slane · 02-12-2004 12:23am

Strange too that this wasn't mentioned in the Indo, the Irish Times or the Star.

I checked the TV3 website and it doesn't seem to be in their press releases.

It's very doubtful that the Mirror would just make it up - so where did the story come from ?

wheresmejumper · 02-12-2004 12:51am

Anyone watch The Premiership on RTE last week, Ray Houghton twice at least circled players we couldn't see on our cropped pictures but he evidently could. All viewers could see were small parts of the circle on the left or right of the screen. Also it seems that any TV screen seen in RTE is widescreen format. Surely they can't hold out much longer, they must understand the concept by now.

channelsurfer · 02-12-2004 5:31pm

IT looks as if rte are caught on the hop.they have not even bothered to reply to me on their widescren policy.Sent a email nearly a year ago and a follow up one a few months ago. they insist on this 14/9 format that crops everything and the premiership is in widescreen its just rte that crop it. if you look at sky or bbc on digital its in widescreen the matches. I guess tv3 will be broadcasting in the anamorphic widescreen. if ya have a copy of the article will Ya post it .

Widescreen · 02-12-2004 6:04pm

It is amazing that the Widescreen TV is seen as a must have accessory by most people ,but anyone who just watches terrestrial TV or Cable is wasting their money. I think it is only through Sky Digital that there is genuine w/s broadcasting. When watching the rugby on RTE ,if they are using BBC coverage, the score at the top of screen is half missing unless you set the screen to w/s manually. Then of course you have even fatter rugby players!

Its a joke at this stage...When are we ever going to have a PSB that we can actually be proud of? :mad:

smoke.me.a.kipper · 02-12-2004 6:14pm

ii usually watch my anologue cable in 4:3, and if there is small black bars i zoom it up a bit. i hate the way rte switch when the ads are on making me make changes when my programme comes back on.

Mossy Monk · 02-12-2004 6:22pm

TV3 in widescreen
maybe they will sort the programming out when thats done

celticfc · 02-12-2004 6:51pm

Widescreen wrote:

but anyone who just watches terrestrial TV or Cable is wasting their money. I think it is only through Sky Digital that there is genuine w/s broadcasting.

Where did you ever hear this?

All channels that broadcast in animorphic widescreen on DSat are also available in widescreen on Digital cable systems like ntl & chorus.

(Afaik though, a couple of the UK terrestrials aren't available on Chorus in animorphic w/s currently though for some reason)

watty · 02-12-2004 7:44pm

I won't pay Sky to watch the poor Irish copy of ITV.

Especially when ITV has Widescreen now. ITV3 is FTA too.

I have 1 digibox, one FTA Digital and PC Digital Satellite. But I have no intention of paying the equivalent of 3 budget DVD films per month to Murdoch Inc.

Oddly though "Bonanza" Channel (FTA) has almost no WS content but crops top and bottom of the old US TV series and broadcasts them in Anamorphic.

I think that, and the Beeb habit of "window-boxing" 4:3 in an animorphic frame is daft.

Lets have EVERYTHING in its Original Aspect Ratio and then use Animorphic or not as it makes sense.

WS TV owners can easily chop or stretch 4:3 if they really feel the need. 4:3 TV users can select Letter box, Crop or if they have an Animorphic capable TV (Philips, Sony and Mitshubisi 4:3 which shrinks height), they can select raw/16:9 auto mode.

The Broadcasters need to read up on how this stuff works.

SRB · 02-12-2004 11:21pm

WS TV owners can easily chop or stretch 4:3 if they really feel the need. 4:3 TV users can select Letter box, Crop or if they have an Animorphic capable TV (Philips, Sony and Mitshubisi 4:3 which shrinks height), they can select raw/16:9 auto mode.

Ah, now here you're assuming the vast majority of owners of WS TV's actually know how to use them, I've lost count of the number of sets I've seen in houses with the format wrongly selected. Even Sky installers seem to be unable to set the boxes to 16:9 when they install them in a customers house with a 16:9 tele.

wheresmejumper · 03-12-2004 12:22pm

RTE will eventually reply - they did in my case after about a month when I asked them about their logos and moving to widescreen. Lost the reply - but the gist on widescreen was that there wasn't an international standard. Didn't bother pushing them anymore, what they say is probably true, but in reality BBC, Sky and the TV manufacturers have created the standard.
I suppose now if they introduce it in the next couple years it might clash with Sky's roll out of high definition TV.

I saw recently that Sky is installed in 54% of Irish households. Taking that figure and adding in NTL and chorus digital may well mean we've, despite or maybe because of RTE's general uselessness, one of the highest digital TV audiences.

(If anyones interested on RTE logos- they said something about it being part of their branding and that were getting equipment to make them translucent - which eventually happened, still don't like them though)

celticfc · 03-12-2004 12:25pm

wheresmejumper wrote:

I saw recently that Sky is installed in 54% of Irish households.

Surely that can't be right.

The Westerner · 03-12-2004 1:21pm

In the Irish Times (2/12/04), media/broacasting section, tv3 to begin widescreen (16:9) broadcasting in the middle of 2005 on digital satellite/cable platforms, but remaining in 4:3 on analogue terrestrial. I wonder how will RTE respond to this?

wheresmejumper · 03-12-2004 1:25pm

Sorry about that, knew I should have checked, according to http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/4432807?view=Eircomnet

it's actually 24%

"The company, which trades in the Republic as Sky Ireland, now has 332,000 subscribers to its Sky Digital service. Almost a quarter of all households in the Republic (24.2 per cent) now subscribe to the service."

03-12-2004 1:29pm

Thats strange
RTÉ's licence to broadcast on satelite is on the proviso that the terrestrial and satelite ouput must be the same which was their reason for not going widescreen
Thought TV3 would have been the same?

Round Cable · 03-12-2004 2:05pm

The Westerner wrote:

In the Irish Times (2/12/04), media/broacasting section, tv3 to begin widescreen (16:9) broadcasting in the middle of 2005 on digital satellite/cable platforms, but remaining in 4:3 on analogue terrestrial. I wonder how will RTE respond to this?

Wonderful news, slowly TV3 is getting better, although I expected it would be the last Irish channel to go widescreen considering how much 4:3 they show, and RTE's crap solution of 14:9 is not a good option, you're pissing of widescreen owners by giving them 'half-widescreen' and a loss of resolution when the picture is streched, and 4:3 owners by having black bars at the top and bottom of the screen, RTE when will you ever learn????

The whole article:

TV3 goes widescreen

TV3 will begin widescreen broadcasting in the middle of next year, it was announced this week.

Widescreen broadcasting allows pictures to be viewed on a widescreen TV without distorting the image. It is often described as having a cinema-like experience in your own home.

The station has been capable of widescreen broadcasting since it was established in 1998, but it is only switching now because the amount of widescreen programming available has greatly increased.

The new format will be available on digital cable and digital satellite, whereas viewers on analogue will retain the standard form of broadcasting.

The station hopes the new format will be particularly attractive to those who watch a lot of movies.

It presumably also hopes advertisers who want to target these people will welcome the new initiative.

Round Cable · 03-12-2004 2:12pm

wheresmejumper wrote:

(If anyones interested on RTE logos- they said something about it being part of their branding and that were getting equipment to make them translucent - which eventually happened, still don't like them though)

I sent them an email as well on the logo's and widescreen, it took over 3 months go get a reply, and after all that it was a standard copy and paste job. When they made the DOG's more transparent, they also made them bigger, also on Network 2 promo's they logo the use is about twice as transparent as the current one, why can they use this, make the thing smaller and while they are at it put it down in the bottom right corner of the screen.

icdg · 03-12-2004 2:43pm

Earthman wrote:

Thats strange
RTÉ's licence to broadcast on satelite is on the proviso that the terrestrial and satelite ouput must be the same which was their reason for not going widescreen
Thought TV3 would have been the same?

Not to slam RTE or be too cynical, but I suspect that was a case of either:
a) Interpeting the satellite content contract a slight bit too literally (I suspect what the BCI are actually concerned about is programmes, not aspect ratio. And remember that RTE can do whatever they like (well, within reason) as far as terrestrial is concerned, they do not have to answer to the BCI, but to the Minister for Communications.)
b) Using it as an excuse not to do something they weren't going to do anyway.

I could be wrong on both those counts, though.

Either way, I don't think the BCI are going to terminate a contract on the basis of a different aspect ratio being broadcast on different platforms...

03-12-2004 2:49pm

icdg wrote:

Either way, I don't think the BCI are going to terminate a contract on the basis of a different aspect ratio being broadcast on different platforms...

Agreed.
If I was in slam RTÉ mode though, I'd suspect that their unliberal interpretation of the rules was convenient when they lacked funds...
Times have moved on and they have more funds now.

Tv3 however may soon have ITV1 to compete with on Satelite in ROI so they are putting their skates on.

Was in the process of moving and merging the two threads to satelite when ICDG was replying.
Broadcasting thread moved to satelite and merged with the existing thread.

watty · 03-12-2004 6:40pm

wheresmejumper wrote:

RTE will eventually reply - they did in my case after about a month when I asked them about their logos and moving to widescreen. Lost the reply - but the gist on widescreen was that there wasn't an international standard. Didn't bother pushing them anymore, what they say is probably true, but in reality BBC, Sky and the TV manufacturers have created the standard.
I suppose now if they introduce it in the next couple years it might clash with Sky's roll out of high definition TV.
<snip>

Yes there *IS* an International standard.
non-animorphic is 4:3 frame (16:12)
animorphic is *SAME* analog or digital signal, but must be distorted to fit a 16:9 frame.

WS on DVB (dtt, digital cable, digital MMDS or digital satellite) is indicated by an internationally agreed "flag" bit.

WS on analog (Terrestrial transmission, Analog Satellite, Analog MMDS, cable from digital set-top box etc) is indicated by a bit pattern on Line23.

There is even a "semi-wide screen" mode for analog.

SCART WS switching is indicated by +5V instead of the normal +12V, 0V menas inactive device.

The Sky Digibox does NOT implement the Line23 signal on composite or RF out, though it could with a simple on-air upgrade. Some digital receivers (DTT, Cable, Satellite) *DO* implement WS switching.

ALL WS TVs can be set to "Auto" where Line23 *OR* the SCART pin voltage automatically does the switching.

Most 4:3 Philips, Sony, Mitsubishi (and some others), will also recognise Line23 or SCART pin and reduce hieght for full quality WS animorphic, or full frame 4:3. Or can be set to manual 16:9 or 4:3.

Most DVD players will output a WS signal. Some Philips VHS players even have WS switching (ALL VHS will record and replay Animorphic, but most need the aspect manually switched on the TV).

RTE as usual are talking rubbish.

Also I can see no reason why they can't broadcast some films in true Animorphic WS on DSAT and letterboxed OAR on Analog.

Even though technically Animorphic WS can be transmitted on terrestrial Analog no-one does as most 4:3 TV set owners would have over tall pictures.

(Why not have one film a week on late in OAR animorphic WS *EVEN* on Analog? Given number of ejets with WS TVs watching 4:3 material distorted to fill screen would any one complain? And all us 4:3 and 16:9 TV set owners with NO sky package and anamorphic capable TVs would be very happy! )

channelsurfer · 03-12-2004 11:25pm

Just thinking if tv3 say that they were capable of broadcasting in widescreen since 1998 why is it taking them till next summer to begin the service. At least it is progress it will put pressure on rte or as I call them really tired excuses for a policy decision to be made..

icdg · 03-12-2004 11:47pm

celticfc wrote:

All channels that broadcast in animorphic widescreen on DSat are also available in widescreen on Digital cable systems like ntl & chorus.

Don't know about Chorus, but on NTL, its really only the four UK terrestrials and the BBC digital channels which broadcast properly in widescreen. And the odd Sky One programme too.

Round Cable · 04-12-2004 12:38am

icdg wrote:

Don't know about Chorus, but on NTL, its really only the four UK terrestrials and the BBC digital channels which broadcast properly in widescreen. And the odd Sky One programme too.

On NTL all the available widescreen channels on digital are in anamorphic widescreen. List of WIDESCREEN channels on NTL digital:

BBC 1,2,3,4, Cbeebies, CBBC
ITV 1,3
Channel 4
Sky One/Mix
Flaunt
Scuzz
The Amp
QVC

watty · 04-12-2004 12:52am

TG4 has made all its own productions in Anamorphic WS since day1. They really want to do WS.

Perhaps the Granschildren will see them in WS.

I wouldn't hold my breath for HD TV. It isn't so needed in Europe as USA. (They have much larger TVs and 30% lower resolution, so really need it. Most USA HD TV isn't much higher than PAL resolution. Also normal NTSC has a problem with interframe artifacts in interlace, the HDTV in USA is non-interlaced, i.e. progressive scan, so has no Film transfer artifacts. Again as the process of film to PAL is different we don't get their artifacts.)

Widescreen · 06-12-2004 10:27am

Earthman wrote:

Agreed.
If I was in slam RTÉ mode though, I'd suspect that their unliberal interpretation of the rules was convenient when they lacked funds...
Times have moved on and they have more funds now.

Tv3 however may soon have ITV1 to compete with on Satelite in ROI so they are putting their skates on.

Was in the process of moving and merging the two threads to satelite when ICDG was replying.
Broadcasting thread moved to satelite and merged with the existing thread.

Earthman,when actually will ITV1 be on satellite in Ireland as you suggest ???

dmeehan · 06-12-2004 12:40pm

SRB wrote:

Ah, now here you're assuming the vast majority of owners of WS TV's actually know how to use them, I've lost count of the number of sets I've seen in houses with the format wrongly selected. Even Sky installers seem to be unable to set the boxes to 16:9 when they install them in a customers house with a 16:9 tele.

i have also seen this in TV showrooms too where a WS tv is showing a dvd playing and the format is all messed up

really encourages to buy there, and take advantage of their "experteese"

Charles Slane · 06-12-2004 7:55pm

And have you ever noticed how many widescreen TVs in shops are displaying Sky News ? Of course they're showing the widescreen version of it, you know, the one with half the logo and the time missing off the top, and where they employ the more "rotund" newsreaders. They also have the top half of the scrolling headlines (which is very good if you like to make up your own version of the latest breaking stories !!).

Yes, I'm afraid that the majority of the people working in TV shops know very little about their trade as they try to convince you to part with thousands of Euro for the latest plasma screen (it gets all the channels, don't you know).

Tony · 06-12-2004 10:18pm

Charles Slane wrote:

Yes, I'm afraid that the majority of the people working in TV shops know very little about their trade

as opposed to satellite shops

Charles Slane · 07-12-2004 1:59am

Tony wrote:

as opposed to satellite shops

Absolutely !!

Charles Slane · 27-12-2004 7:46pm

This is an exerpt from a post by weehamster in the Broadcasting section. It may have been overlooked over there, but the last line is of interest to those interested in widescreen.

"While on the subject of RTE, I bumped into a friend who works in RTE technical. So here’s some answers to a couple of questions I bored him with that have been floating around.

RTE1,2,TV3 & TG4 will be available on Sky in the North at the end the end of February 05 as part of the family pack. This time was chosen as they would save them around €200K as many rights issues would be resolved by then (???)

RTE is going full widescreen in March 05 on digital platforms."

spongebob · 28-12-2004 1:31am

TV3 are probably planning a standards based ambush about then as proof that RTÉ are abusing their market dominance.

M

TV3 Widescreen

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