Tractors and machinery on the road

BrianD3 · 19-07-2006 10:21am #1

Does anyone think the situation with tractors being driven on the road is unsatisfactory. It might have been alright years ago when there weren't that many tractors and traffic was light. But nowadays there are big numbers of tractors on the road, not just for agriculture but also for the construction industry (eg digger contractors, hauling building rubble) Now AFAIK tractors do not have to undergo a DOE test. It shows too as the vast majority of tractor trailer combos that I see have defective lights. I wonder how well the rest of the tractor is maintained too. I think it's disgrace that they don't have to do a DOE test as after all they are being used for commercial activity and in place of trucks. Significant numbers of tractors don't have proper mirrors or number plates on either the tractor or the trailer. They obviously get away with this as so many of them are at it.

Also is there any driving test for driving a tractor on the road and what is the exact situation with licences. Big tractors are pretty fast and can tow massive trailers yet from what I hear an an untrained 16 year old can legally drive one on the road. This is madness when you consider how much training needs to be done to get a full EC (articulated truck) licence. I know of a few crashes where someone was legally overtaking a tractor which turned right across their path without warning, tractor driver didn't look or indicate before making his turn.

Next one - combine harvesters and other very wide machinery. Surely machinery over a certain width should have some sort of escort. I see machinery being driven on roads where the machine is so wide that it's phsyically impossible for it not to cross the white line on a regional road. Even tractors can take up most of the road on county roads where there is generally no white line. I see near misses all the time where cars meet fast moving tractors taking up 3/4 or more of the road. In these situations even if the car driver is travelling at a speed which allows him to stop in half the distance he can see to be clear he may still end up having to drive into the ditch to avoid a collision.

Another question - what is the situation with agri diesel and tractors used by builders.

LikeOhMyGawd! · 19-07-2006 10:57am

BrianD3 wrote:

Next one - combine harvesters and other very wide machinery.

Yeah - I've seen numerous combine harvesters driving up the hard shoulder of the M1, encroaching on to the inside lane and leaving a cloud of dust and hay behind them. It's truely mind-boggling that this is allowed to go on.

peasant · 19-07-2006 11:01am

Yepp ...I REALLY love the unlit ones with those nasty baler spikes sticking out. Dread to think what it would look like if you impaled yourself on those.

jhegarty · 19-07-2006 11:07am

How do you expect farmers to deliver thier grain ?

How do you expect combine harvesters to travel from one farm to another?

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Stephen · 19-07-2006 11:11am

If tractor drivers pulled in at regular intervals to let the large queues of faster moving traffic behind them past there wouldn't be a problem, but I rarely ever see this happening.

peasant · 19-07-2006 11:16am

jhegarty wrote:

How do you expect farmers to deliver thier grain ?

How do you expect combine harvesters to travel from one farm to another?

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Most combine harvesters are run by contractors ...they just need to employ a few more people to do the escort run with a properly lit vehicle front and rear.

As for the farmers own tractor ...just make sure the lights are working on the tractor AND trailer

unnameduser · 19-07-2006 11:17am

The standard of a lot of tractors etc onthe road is indeed a disgrace. Ive seen some tractors with no lights, mirrors and sometimes no rollbar at all! IN the town that i live in (nenagh) there is a lot of local agriculture and also alot of construction. I see there is loads of young fellows driving large machinery and they are driving way too fast towing large trailers. THis items should be addressed.

As regards the large machinery taking up most of the road it is simply not possible for escorts!! In an ideal world the machinery would have an escort but there is no way this will happen. One would expect though that the machinery would be well lit, perhaps have warning flashing lights and the vehicle should be driven slowly.

kippy · 19-07-2006 11:18am

I agree with the point that these types of machinary need to have the proper lights, numberplates and be up to scratch to be on the public highways and that the drivers need to be aware that they need to pull in now and again to let faster traffic pass-and in my opinion most drivers of these vehicles realise they need to pull in every now and again or make is as easy as possible for those behind to overtake.
However I dont think you can make a point for them not to be on the road.They have as much right to the road as anyone else. If you are behind one it is you who are expected to wait for a safe position to pass-even if they do not pull in. They are after all just a slow moving vehicle where drivers need to take more care and attention when driving near them.

EDIT- I reaslise that the original post was not specificilly to do with tractors on the road but this is what it appears to be turning into.
Hopefully someone can help answer the technical and legal questions posed.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 19-07-2006 11:18am

im sure their are strict laws governing farm machinery on the road

but i cant see any laws to do with tractors and other farm machinery been enforced anyway...

unnameduser · 19-07-2006 11:21am

Stephen wrote:

If tractor drivers pulled in at regular intervals to let the large queues of faster moving traffic behind them past there wouldn't be a problem, but I rarely ever see this happening.

i agree, it would be a simple solution to one of the problems. I see farmers pull in for other vehicles where i am from. I actually think it is the yonger drivers who dont pull in.

Big machinery = big man

jhegarty · 19-07-2006 11:21am

peasant wrote:

Most combine harvesters are run by contractors ...they just need to employ a few more people to do the escort run with a properly lit vehicle front and rear.

As for the farmers own tractor ...just make sure the lights are working on the tractor AND trailer

Most harvesters where i come form are run by farmers who have hugh loans on them and need to harvest half the countryside to make the payments... I think you need to check out the margins in that business becuase you say its simple to empoy a few people...

agree that they should be lit up , buts thats already covered by exisiting laws and should be inforced by the guards....

peasant · 19-07-2006 11:23am

As regards the large machinery taking up most of the road it is simply not possible for escorts!! In an ideal world the machinery would have an escort but there is no way this will happen. One would expect though that the machinery would be well lit, perhaps have warning flashing lights and the vehicle should be driven slowly.

What's the big deal?

A combine harvester usually doesn't operate on its own but comes with a big fleet of support vehicles. Just stick warning signs and surround lights on those and let them drive in front and behind the harvester. These vehicles could be other tractors.

That's the way it's been done in other countries for years.

unnameduser · 19-07-2006 11:24am

jhegarty wrote:

Most harvesters where i come form are run by farmers who have hugh loans on them and need to harvest half the countryside to make the payments... I think you need to check out the margins in that business becuase you say its simple to empoy a few people...

agree that they should be lit up , buts thats already covered by exisiting laws and should be inforced by the guards....

exactly...

The cost of the machinery is huge!! It is very easy to say employ more ppl but this is not always economical

Robbo · 19-07-2006 11:25am

jhegarty wrote:

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Can we? Please.

Joking aside, those bale-spike things always make me uneasy. Is there no way they can be muzzled, as it were?

unnameduser · 19-07-2006 11:26am

peasant wrote:

What's the big deal?

A combine harvester usually doesn't operate on its own but comes with a big fleet of support vehicles. Just stick warning signs and surround lights on those and let them drive in front and behind the harvester. These vehicles could be other tractors.

That's the way it's been done in other countries for years.

i have come across combines being driven on its own without escort several times. I am simply saying that these cases happen.

IMO the contractors usually are the best to follow the proper rules and it is usually (not always) individual drivers who cause the problems

mike65 · 19-07-2006 11:29am

Moved to Commuting/Transport

Mike.

Padwick · 19-07-2006 11:29am

Doesn't the UK have some law that you can't bring a tractor outside a certain radius of the farm yard? It would work lovely here too.
Got far to go? Then get a lorry to bring it or get a new job.

unnameduser · 19-07-2006 11:32am

Padwick wrote:

Doesn't the UK have some law that you can't bring a tractor outside a certain radius of the farm yard? It would work lovely here too.
Got far to go? Then get a lorry to bring it or get a new job.

somehow i just dont see that working. A lot of farmers have land in different areas that could be up to 20 miles away.

Vegeta · 19-07-2006 11:32am

i was sure i heard before i started driving that tractors could not drive on the roads a certain distance from the farm they operate on.

Since i have started driving i have seen nothing of the sort in any rule book.

Anyone know where this might have come from.

EDIT: Padwick beat me to it

Padwick · 19-07-2006 11:35am

unnameduser wrote:

somehow i just dont see that working. A lot of farmers have land in different areas that could be up to 20 miles away.

I think it has something wirtten in about the centre being the main farm property. and not any surrounding land.

kippy · 19-07-2006 11:36am

Some basic stuff here:
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/other-road-users.html
The stuff about the machines not being allowed go more than a certain distance from the farm may be some sort of insurance clause as opposed to a road rule.

gyppo · 19-07-2006 11:36am

I agree with the OP regarding modern tractors and driving licences. When you look at the speeds they can achieve, conbimed with the loads they can pull, it becomes apparent that its going to take some time and effort to stop.
I certainly dont think 16 year olds should be allowed drive them, and the law should be changed.

Last year I saw a tractor on the N6 roundabout (Kilmartins, Athlone) with the trailer lying on its side, and load of bales shed along the roundabout. The tractor (which was a big one) wound up with its 2 rear wheels suspended 2 feet in the air, as a result of the trailer twisting behind it. The gosoon who was driving it looked about 16/17. The reason for this accident - inexperience - the lad was going too fast. Anyone who knows this roundabout knows just how busy it is - luckily there were no injuries.

16 year olds driving agricultural machinery was probably permissible 20 odd years ago, when farm machinery was smaller, and less powerful than the behemoths available today.

BrianD · 19-07-2006 12:04pm

I wouldn't agree. By and large the standards of the tractors on the roads is good compared with days of old when trailers with no lights were the norm. Most farm machinery these days are flipping huge and lit like a small town. They are also all designed to comply with road regulations in terms of vehicle widths etc. As much of it is manufactured by European suppliers you'll find the standard of build and safety quite high. Obviously I can't account for the driver or the vehicle maintinance and no farm equipment should be driven on a m-way.

As for the agri-diesel - farmers can used this and I understand that this extends to other non-road vehicles such as excavators and dumpers.

BrianD3 · 19-07-2006 12:27pm

Re: the excuses people have been making. Frankly I don't care how much a combine harvester costs or what logistical problems there are hauling grain or how small the margins in farming are. Everyone in every walk of life has to deal with their own problems. The tolerance shown to farmers by the Gardai and authorities is ridiculous IMO. The biggest problem i'd have with it is the inadequate training/licensing and the roadworthiness aspect. I'd estimate that 99% of the tractors I see being used for agriculture have defective lights, no numberplates, no mirrors etc. BrianD you need to open your eyes if you think most tractors around are in roadworthy condition.

Also if a machine is legally required to have an escort then it needs an escort. There should be no excuses about how the "poor farmer was only going down the road, sure what's the harm in it"

The other day near kinnegad I saw an eejit driving some sort of "bog tractor" along a narrow road. It was about 12 feet wide at the back wheels yet there was no escort anywhere. He wasn't going particularly slowly either. Had he met a car there probably would have been a crash.

Tractors used by builders tend to be newer, bigger and in better condition that those used by farmers. This doesn't mean that they are fit to be on the road though. I'd say 75% of them have defective lights

I'd have more of a problem with builders actually as i wonder if they are breaking any laws or at the very least exploiting loopholes by using tractors for building purposes. As I asked in the original post, are builders allowed use agri diesel? If so then why are taxpayers subsidising wealthy builder. If not then is this enforced? Whatever excuses can be made for farmers, I don't believe builders should be allowed employ a 16 year old to haul a digger long distances holding up hundreds of cars on the way because it was cheaper to use do it this way than to use an artic

kippy · 19-07-2006 12:47pm

If that person had met a car and there was an accident then someone was driving without due care and attention as both drivers should be able to slow down and negotiate a passing/overtaking maneouvre-if they were both driving safely. Whether or not the tractor had flashing lights/an escort or a marching garda band is not relevant in the driving/safety terms.
What would happen if the car met a flock of sheep, heard of cows or a cyclist fallen in the middle of the road...they would most likely slow down and negotiate the obstacle.

Nobody can expect to ban all such vehicles from the roads. As I mentioned before when approaching one of these vehicles some sense must be adhered to-it is a bigger road object and needs to be treated as a slower moving/large vehicle.
I do think that most of these vehicles are roadworthy and well lit up.
Just because the slow down traffic, they should be banned.....I dont think so.

BrianD3 · 19-07-2006 1:05pm

kippy wrote:

What would happen if the car met a flock of sheep, heard of cows or a cyclist fallen in the middle of the road...they would most likely slow down and negotiate the obstacle.

The difference is that a fallen cyclist or cows in the road generally won't be coming towards you at 20 mph taking up the entire road.

It depends on what the car driver is legally obliged to do. If he's obliged to be able to stop in the distance he can see to be clear on his own side of the road then that's not going to be good enough if a tractor comes around a bend taking up the full road. As the tractor will enter the space that the car driver could see to be clear.

Now if the driver is travelling at a speed which allows him to stop in HALF the distance he can see to be clear then he has a much better chance of avoiding a crash obviously. However as I said i have seen some near misses. Eg a tractor going at a fair speed around a bend taking up 3/4 or more of the road forcing a car to drive into a ditch It is true to say that it is more to do with the driver of the tractor driving without due care than the tractor itself.

PS i am talking about county roads (below R classification) in the above examples. Generally there is not a problem with tractors taking up too much of the road on R roads and above. However wider machinery like combines can certainly be continually over the white line on an R-road.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-07-2006 2:04pm

jhegarty wrote:

How do you expect farmers to deliver thier grain ?

How do you expect combine harvesters to travel from one farm to another?

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Either make the combines road legal - License Plates , Tax + INSURANCE
a lot of them are setup so you can put the blade on a trailer the combines pulls along
or
move them on a trailer pulled by something that has license plates, tax and insurance.

Same is true of forklifts, dumper trucks, teleporters and the other stuff the construction and manufacturing industries take out on the road on short trips

Since all of the above are commercial, there is no excuse, if they can't afford to do it then they are trying to under cut legit businesses by illegal means.

TBH Also only 2% of farming land changes hands every year ( once every 50 years - the working life of a farmer) and the return compared to what the land is worth is tiny. Farm land is at a crazy price at the moment. many farmers should look at selling a bit of the farm while they can and invest it against when land prices drop.

BrianD3 · 19-07-2006 2:30pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Same is true of forklifts, dumper trucks, teleporters and the other stuff the construction and manufacturing industries take out on the road on short trips

Add to that cherry pickers (yes i have seen them being driven on public roads) quad bikes etc. AFAIC all machinery should be registered, taxed, insured, lit and be road legal before it goes near a public road. That's how it works in civilised countries.

Some machines do have the above but many don't. Eg on numerous occasions I have seen eejist driving forklifts on the public road without without any sign of them being road legal.

jjbrien · 19-07-2006 2:48pm

Has anbody seen the machery at Whitehall on the M1 in Dublin on the first set of on and off ramps on the N1 comming from town the cherry pickers always seen to wait until about 5pm or 5:15 to comeout and drinve onto the on ramp slowing down the traffic they should wait until off peak times not when everybody is trying to get home from work.

Wishbone Ash · 20-07-2006 7:41am

Stephen wrote:

If tractor drivers pulled in at regular intervals to let the large queues of faster moving traffic behind them past there wouldn't be a problem, but I rarely ever see this happening.

I do this when I can but sometimes, on a particularly busy road in Dublin, no one will let you out again.

It's not easy driving agricultural machinery in busy semi-urban areas. I occasionally have to drive on dual carriageways and if I need to take the third exit at roundabouts, it's virtually impossible to get into the overtaking lane.

My pet hate is other tractor drivers using rear white additional field work lights at night on public roads.

Bluetonic · 20-07-2006 9:17am

jjbrien wrote:

Has anbody seen the machery at Whitehall on the M1 in Dublin on the first set of on and off ramps on the N1 comming from town the cherry pickers always seen to wait until about 5pm or 5:15 to comeout and drinve onto the on ramp slowing down the traffic they should wait until off peak times not when everybody is trying to get home from work.

Ah would you stop that. The traffic is slow moving from Whitehall to Lissenhall so this isn't going to slow you down any further. I don't know if you've driven around there at all times during the day but there isn't any 'off peak' times. Have a patience, surely you've two minutes to spare?

Tractors and machinery on the road

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