Don't see one of these every day..

Homer · 06-06-2014 1:22pm #1

This might have got more interest in the general watch forum but I can understand why they put it in the antiques section.

Looks like a Cartier military watch with a Jaeger movement. I'm sure CB or Wibbs will be able to add more to the story. Interesting find nonetheless..

http://www.adverts.ie/jewellery/cartier-military-chronograph-1937/5649771

893bet · 06-06-2014 3:18pm

seen it earlier and thought adverts is not the right place to sell it!

Wibbs · 06-06-2014 3:55pm

It's a very nice watch of the type. A JLC retailed by Cartier. Military? No. It's certainly not an issued piece. The 24 hour dial markings mean nothing as far as military provenance goes. Might it have been used by a military man? Certainly. Not infantry as not exactly robust. Pilot maybe. Even so it's far more likely to have been worn by a rich businessman. Now the price is the price and all that, that's up to the seller. The Cartier addition will up the value, on top of it being a JLC. However... 20 grand? Ehhhh no.

That's the price of two issued Breguet type XX with change. That's original Longines Weems territory. That's five Wempe B-Uhrs or one IWC example.

For a similar age chrono? 20 grand would buy you three Longines 30ch's in 18K gold which would blow the doors off the JLC movement(or any other of the time for that matter).

Homer · 06-06-2014 4:42pm

^^^ and that's why I bow at the alter of your knowledge o wise one

CarltonBrowne · 12-06-2014 7:09pm

Thanks for posting that and also very nice of you to comment on the original ad as you did. I find it quite endearing the way that the seller's father seems to have made it his life's mission to piece together the story of the watch - the price may be off (or it may not be - it only takes two lunatics with the same fetish in an auction room at the same time for that price to look cheap) but it seems clear that this hasn't been assembled hurriedly to achieve the best possible sale price; something we see too often.

As Wibbs says it's not actually a military watch but that's not a problem. I'm also not sure whether the triple provenance of Cartier, Le Coultre and Universal Geneve make it worth more in the eyes of a collector or less. If I get a minute I might throw up a link to it on the Universal Geneve forum; there are some chaps on there with pretty deep pockets but I suspect the fact that it hasn't got UG on the dial won't help it.

If I was the seller I'd be knocking on the door at one of the Mayfair auction houses or Antiquorum. I know there's a view that these places are sometimes just Ebay with a nicer suit (and a signet ring, and a Hermes tie) but if there's a wealthy buyer to be found out there then they should help to find him or her.

Wibbs · 12-06-2014 10:03pm

Has the price since dropped to 10K? It seems they're also open to offers above 6K. While 20K had me a bit "ehhhh..." I'd reckon 6K is lowball. As CB said with the right audience and all the attendant info it could well see more than that. It is a nice watch, a vey nice watch of the type and it might appeal to a few demographics within the more rarified vintage collector market. IMH Adverts isn't close to the right audience for such a piece. I'd agree with CB and look to a specialist auction house to reach the right market.

Marcusm · 13-06-2014 12:04pm

I really cannot see how Adverts.ie is anything but a very silly place to try and sell this; it's like a low rent eBay with a fraction of the potential viewers. Adverts.ie is much more of a forum for relatively common (not meant derogatorily) pieces to be sold independently.

Any of the major London auction houses would take it on consignment and the audience would comprise "wealthy businessmen" but also a lot of dealers. I think Bonhams was in Dublin last week scouting out possible entries for forthcoming auctions across departments.

debbie353 · 23-07-2014 12:46pm

Hi guys! As you may be aware I am selling this watch for my dad. My dad is 71 years of age and he aint too handy around the computer. I put it on adverts & donedeal for exposure and well look it caught your attention, im very aware they are not the correct target audiences. My dad has contacted many rip off antique dealers who's commisions can be up to 60% of the sale value. I never claimed to have any knowledge on antiques or watches. I thought about ebay but I wasnt sure of the restrictions and commission etc so I didn't want to put it up and be obliged to sell it. If you had any advise for me I would be very greatful.

Wibbs · 23-07-2014 1:49pm

debbie353 wrote: »

If you had any advise for me I would be very greatful.

Personally I'd avoid eBay like the plague with an item like this. It might get an audience, but it might not. If it was me in your position I'd follow the advice CB gave earlier;

CarltonBrowne wrote: »

If I was the seller I'd be knocking on the door at one of the Mayfair auction houses or Antiquorum. I know there's a view that these places are sometimes just Ebay with a nicer suit (and a signet ring, and a Hermes tie) but if there's a wealthy buyer to be found out there then they should help to find him or her.

They would be your best bet. They target watch collectors directly.

debbie353 · 23-07-2014 1:52pm

Perfect will pass that info to my dad. I contacted Christies and & Bonhams today following advice from a person on adverts. Both seemed very interested.

CarltonBrowne · 23-07-2014 2:12pm

I'll put a thread up on the UG forum (probably be tomorrow). It will be interesting to see what the consensus is there

debbie353 · 23-07-2014 2:14pm

Thanks a million thats very kind of you to help

Marcusm · 23-07-2014 5:02pm

debbie353 wrote: »

Perfect will pass that info to my dad. I contacted Christies and & Bonhams today following advice from a person on adverts. Both seemed very interested.

They will both be very interested and likely take it on consignment. Bonhams charges a buyer's premium of 20% but I have no idea what the seller's charges are. Both of those houses have specialist watch departments and would be well placed to advise which country to sell in - choices are generally New Yor, London or Hong Kong.

Ebay, Adverts.ie or an Irish auction would not be doing your father a good service with all the effort he's put into it.

debbie353 · 23-07-2014 5:06pm

Again thanks for the input. Ive sent them pics etc and they said it could be 3 to 4 weeks before they get back to me. Id assume that's the norm? They wana do their own research?

Marcusm · 23-07-2014 10:22pm

debbie353 wrote: »

Again thanks for the input. Ive sent them pics etc and they said it could be 3 to 4 weeks before they get back to me. Id assume that's the norm? They wana do their own research?

There won't be any serious auction until (mid) September at this stage as it all slows down over the Summer. They may be looking at appraisal events in Ireland.

CarltonBrowne · 25-07-2014 8:43am

I posted a link on the UG forum and we've had a couple of responses which are certainly made with a critical eye; something very much to be expected.

http://omegaforums.net/threads/opinions-on-this-triple-signed-chronograph-with-a-cal-285-lecoultre-cartier-and-universal.15000/#post-166984

There's a Cartier receipt in the portfolio; what did they say about the watch and did they offer a similar $1000 service to authenticate it more closely? I think a lot hinges on that and obviously you have to be prepared for an answer that you may not want to hear. Also, and obviously, better pictures will help; the online watch collecting community is so used to fraudsters and ne-er do wells trying to pass off tat on Ebay with poor photos then anything without good, high quality pictures is immediately treated with scepticism. I'd offer to help (partly because I'd love to see the watch) but I don't have any near plans to be in Dublin. Maybe somebody on the forum might offer to help or it might be worth looking for a photographer who specialises in macro photography. Beware that high quality photos will bring the provenance of your watch under even closer scrutiny and, apparently, sometimes can scare off bidders should your watch come to auction if they've been widely circulated on the net (some of the collectors of "rare" military Rolexes in the UK have cited examples of this happening).

It's all a bit tricky whatever you choose to do. My guess is to box off the Cartier angle first and then make the appointments with the big auction houses when they say they're available. And keep an eye on the UG forum thread.

debbie353 · 28-07-2014 9:19am

Thanks so much for your help. Hopefully ill show my dad all this info during the week! I appreciate all the advice and help you have all given to me.

CarltonBrowne · 31-07-2014 9:53am

It may come to nothing but make sure you keep an eye on this thread.

http://omegaforums.net/threads/rare-compax-model-chrono-made-for-cartier.13836/

Don't see one of these every day..

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