BASF walltite

Superdaddy · 20-09-2014 5:40pm #1

Does anybody have any experience of or views on BASF walltite in a masonry cavity wall. It seems like a very good solution to achieving airtightness and it has an agrement cert. I would also appreciate any views on its use in a warm roof to fill between the rafters and to seal between the walls and the roof.
It seems to me it could be used in a masonry build to create a continuous airtight insulated barrier in a house.

john_eire · 21-09-2014 9:24am

If u do a search it will bring some results
Their was one thread in heating and plumbing about it

Superdaddy · 22-09-2014 12:39am

john_eire wrote: »

If u do a search it will bring some results
Their was one thread in heating and plumbing about it

Thanks, I read it, seems very positive.

BryanF · 22-09-2014 7:03am

I don't see a bba/iab cert has it been approved for use in a cavity?

Superdaddy · 22-09-2014 1:44pm

BryanF wrote: »

I don't see a bba/iab cert has it been approved for use in a cavity?

It is certified. http://walltite.basf.ie/downloads/bba-certification

BryanF · 22-09-2014 1:51pm

Superdaddy wrote: »

Does anybody have any experience of or views on BASF walltite in a masonry cavity wall. It seems like a very good solution to achieving airtightness and it has an agrement cert. I would also appreciate any views on its use in a warm roof to fill between the rafters and to seal between the walls and the roof.
It seems to me it could be used in a masonry build to create a continuous airtight insulated barrier in a house.

Can you point out the reference to air-tightness

Superdaddy · 22-09-2014 2:08pm

http://walltite.basf.ie/ That's what they say.

BryanF · 22-09-2014 2:22pm

it's misleading. This is an insulation product, that doesn't help Achieve air-tightest detailing.

Where is air-tightness mentioned in the bba cert?

Superdaddy · 22-09-2014 2:47pm

It would appear that they didn't test that, not sure of the criteria for testing products but you'd imagine the tests are standard for all insulating products. Do you not think that it would massively contribute to airtightness at the very least?
I just got off the phone from my BER assessor and he says he has tested it in a couple of houses and it achieved the requirements for airtightness.

BryanF · 22-09-2014 3:02pm

Superdaddy wrote: »

it achieved the requirements for airtightness.

Hmm.. What does that mean? What is your air-tightness target? The BER assessor is he an auctioneer or an architect?

dathi · 22-09-2014 3:54pm

Compare WALLTITE® with traditional systems

WALLTITE
U-Value (100mm) 0.25
Approved air barrier system Yes
Air leakage <0.0033m³/hr/m² at 50mm thickness
Yes
Air leakage
0.005L/s/m²
at 130mm thickness

seek and you shall find bryan taken from their website

Superdaddy · 22-09-2014 4:18pm

BryanF wrote: »

Hmm.. What does that mean? What is your air-tightness target? The BER assessor is he an auctioneer or an architect?

Well the conversation went like this.
Q. Is walltite used in a 150mm cavity airtight?
Ans. Yes we've tested it on a couple of houses and its good, don't have figures to hand but will send them on.
Q. Will it do what i want, passive or near that.
Ans. Yes.

He's very much part of the passive house movement for many a year, he's not a auctioneer and his company is very much involved in Eco building. I believe he is an architect.

Have you used or tested it?

BryanF · 22-09-2014 4:29pm

dathi wrote: »

Compare WALLTITE® with traditional systems

WALLTITE
U-Value (100mm) 0.25
Approved air barrier system Yes
Air leakage <0.0033m³/hr/m² at 50mm thickness
Yes
Air leakage
0.005L/s/m²
at 130mm thickness

seek and you shall find bryan taken from their website

Link?
How would you propse to detail a continuos air-tightness layer at roof or from a cavity using the foam? Can you tape to it?

BryanF · 22-09-2014 4:36pm

Superdaddy wrote: »

Well the conversation went like this.
Q. Is walltite used in a 150mm cavity airtight?
Ans. Yes we've tested it on a couple of houses and its good, don't have figures to hand but will send them on.
Q. Will it do what i want, passive or near that.
Ans. Yes.

He's very much part of the passive house movement for many a year, he's not a auctioneer and his company is very much involved in Eco building. I believe he is an architect.

Have you used or tested it?

Have I used or tested it?
I've used similar products as remedial solutions
Have I tested it? That's what the certificate is for. I responded to OP where you suggest it achieves continuous air-tightness- my concern is what happen where it meets a different material, how is air-tightness continuity achieved?

Was this product use in conjunction with air-tightness tapes, sealants etc?

What air-tightness rating was achieved in the homes the BER assessor used it in? And what other measures were taken in conjunction with its use?

Superdaddy · 22-09-2014 5:08pm

BryanF wrote: »

Have I used or tested it?
I've used similar products as remedial solutions
Have I tested it? That's what the certificate is for. I responded to OP where you suggest it achieves continuous air-tightness- my concern is what happen where it meets a different material, how is air-tightness continuity achieved?

Was this product use in conjunction with air-tightness tapes, sealants etc?

What air-tightness rating was achieved in the homes the BER assessor used it in? And what other measures were taken in conjunction with its use?

I am waiting for on information from my assessor so I don't have figures yet. It's certainly compliant with Part L and according to the case studies I've read it is compatible with Passive haus building, but as you rightly queried, they don't say if they used tapes or sealants in conjunction with it.

It adheres well to concrete and wood which are the main ones, maybe the cavity closers might need to be looked at to ensure it works with whatever is chosen.

What I meant by "have you tested it" is have you done an air tightness test on a property where this was used?
This is a closed cell product, most others are open cell, were the products you used open or closed cell?

My assessor recommends two air tests, one at first fixing and another towards the end of the build. I will be able to see if there is leakage and remedy it with tapes or sealant.
Some interesting case studies available including this one.
http://walltite.basf.ie/case-studies/walltite-proves-its-passivhaus-potential

dathi · 23-09-2014 9:43am

http://walltite.basf.ie/services/material-performance

BryanF · 23-09-2014 9:52am

Superdaddy wrote: »

I am waiting for on information from my assessor so I don't have figures yet. It's certainly compliant with Part L and according to the case studies I've read it is compatible with Passive haus building, but as you rightly queried, they don't say if they used tapes or sealants in conjunction with it.

It adheres well to concrete and wood which are the main ones, maybe the cavity closers might need to be looked at to ensure it works with whatever is chosen.

What I meant by "have you tested it" is have you done an air tightness test on a property where this was used?
This is a closed cell product, most others are open cell, were the products you used open or closed cell?

My assessor recommends two air tests, one at first fixing and another towards the end of the build. I will be able to see if there is leakage and remedy it with tapes or sealant.
Some interesting case studies available including this one.
http://walltite.basf.ie/case-studies/walltite-proves-its-passivhaus-potential

Very interesting
No mention of air-tightness results or what product were used in conjunction with the foam.

dathi · 23-09-2014 9:54am

BryanF wrote: »

Link?
How would you propse to detail a continuos air-tightness layer at roof or from a cavity using the foam? Can you tape to it?

ah now b all junctions have to be detailed regardless of what insulation is chosen for the cavity wall. the op asked was this insulation a good choice to improve his air tightness at least this product has put up some figures can you link to figures for alternative insulations ?

BryanF · 23-09-2014 10:10am

dathi wrote: »

ah now b all junctions have to be detailed regardless of what insulation is chosen for the cavity wall.

Dathi, we need to be carefull here, many of us dont appreciate the difference between insulation and air-tightness.

the op asked was this insulation a good choice to improve his air tightness at least this product has put up some figures can you link to figures for alternative insulations ?

here what the OP asked:

Superdaddy wrote: »

It seems like a very good solution to achieving airtightness and it has an agrement cert.

there is no cert for air-tightness

I would also appreciate any views on its use in a warm roof to fill between the rafters and to seal between the walls and the roof.

i would be specifying a VB / air-tightness layer underneath that taped & sealed, so i see no benefit in using an 'air-tight' insulation when its unclear how it is fixed to surrounding materials + its not breathable when placed between timbers

It seems to me it could be used in a masonry build to create a continuous airtight insulated barrier in a house.

i fail to see hows its continuous

dathi wrote: »

all junctions have to be detailed regardless of what insulation is chosen for the cavity wall.

Superdaddy · 25-09-2014 9:37pm

Thanks for your input Bryan

BryanF wrote: »

Dathi, we need to be carefull here, many of us dont appreciate the difference between insulation and air-tightness.

I do understand the difference, but this product seems to do both, it provides insulation and airtightness. I've had the insulation worked into my DEAP calculations and in the 150mm cavity wall it gives a u value of 0.16. There's many ways to achieve airtightness, thats why there's an airtightness test?

BryanF wrote: »

there is no cert for air-tightness

There's many products that don't have certs for airtightness but they do the job and pass the test. But it does say this on the cert which is more than can be said for fibre, beads or board products.
3.9 The product can contribute to the airtightness of the building envelope.

BryanF wrote: »

i would be specifying a VB / air-tightness layer underneath that taped & sealed, so i see no benefit in using an 'air-tight' insulation when its unclear how it is fixed to surrounding materials

And you'd be right according to the cert.
3.10 To satisfy the requirements of NHBC, a vapour control layer (VCL) of a type specified in their Standards must be
applied behind the plasterboard lining in roof and wall applications, and the product must only be applied to a roof
construction incorporating a breathable roof tile underlay.
3.11 The product can be applied directly to breathable roof tile underlays, or to the BASF rafter slides and BASF
ventilators which create a ventilation gap between the insulation and the bitumen felt/sarking board. Additionally, the
product is applied to plasterboard, between ceiling joists to create a hybrid roof.
I think I will test it without the vapour barrier/ air tightness layer for the craic and see how it performs and probably install it for the final test regardless. But if it's for instance an airtightness level of 0.6 air changes per hour without, would i be justified spending the extra money on installing the VP?

BryanF wrote: »

+ its not breathable when placed between timbers

If there was woodfibre insulation on top of the rafter and a breathable membrane on top of that prior to the walltite application would that not allow the wood to breathe?

BryanF wrote: »

i fail to see hows its continuous

Could be totally wrong here but what i was thinking was that you could spray the roof first and use the spray version to close the cavity at the wall plate. Then fill the cavity from the bottom up. I need to discuss this with the walltite contractors and my engineer to see if this is possible. Failing that a kingspan cavity closer or similar with this stuff either side maybe?

BryanF · 26-09-2014 9:51am

Superdaddy wrote: »

I do understand the difference, but this product seems to do both, it provides insulation and airtightness......

according to the cert.
a vapour control layer (VCL) of a type specified in their Standards must be applied behind the plasterboard lining in roof and wall applications.....

I think I will test it without the vapour barrier/ air tightness layer for the craic and see how it performs and probably install it for the final test regardless.
But if it's for instance an airtightness level of 0.6 air changes per hour without, would i be justified spending the extra money on installing the VP?

If there was woodfibre insulation on top of the rafter and a breathable membrane on top of that prior to the walltite application would that not allow the wood to breathe?

Could be totally wrong here but what i was thinking was that you could spray the roof first and use the spray version to close the cavity at the wall plate. Then fill the cavity from the bottom up. I need to discuss this with the walltite contractors and my engineer to see if this is possible. Failing that a kingspan cavity closer or similar with this stuff either side maybe?

IMO a vapour barrier membrane, taped & sealed is required
possibly - ask your arch/eng or the insulation company to provide wufi (or similar) analysis
id have to see the details. IMO a separate cavity closer is required.

BASF walltite

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