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Convince me..

  • 14-09-2010 9:49pm
    #1
    Predator_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 578 ✭✭✭


    Im thinking about getting back into bikes but the only thing holding me back is the safety issue. I would love a CBR250/Hornet 250, used to ride a NSR 125 but crashed it.
    Since ive given up biking all ive been hearing about biking is how dangerous it is, people on tv getting crippled etc.
    I love bikes, its just there is something in my head that I will either end up dead or in a wheelchair if I get back into bikes.
    Im not a dangerous driver, my crash was due to some scumbag pulling put in front of me. I respect the road.
    Any advice?!


Comments

  • #2
    Old Perry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Old Perry


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Since ive given up biking all ive been hearing about biking is how dangerous it is, people on tv getting crippled etc.
    I love bikes, its just there is something in my head that I will either end up dead or in a wheelchair if I get back into bikes.

    Definitely shouldnt get on a bike with that mentality, as you prob know you need 100% concentration and a certain amount of confidence, you gotta stop thinkin like that for starters, maybe get a few ,being with an instructor may give you a sense of a safer environment and help you remember the good things about riding a bike.

    hope it all goes well anyways


  • #3
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Im thinking about getting back into bikes but the only thing holding me back is the safety issue. I would love a CBR250/Hornet 250, used to ride a NSR 125 but crashed it.
    Since ive given up biking all ive been hearing about biking is how dangerous it is, people on tv getting crippled etc.
    I love bikes, its just there is something in my head that I will either end up dead or in a wheelchair if I get back into bikes.
    Im not a dangerous driver, my crash was due to some scumbag pulling put in front of me. I respect the road.
    Any advice?!

    People end up dead or in wheelchairs for lots of reasons and only a few rode bikes.

    The reason why we have such a bad record for bikers in this country is that up till recently very few had even passed the test never mind had any lessons.

    Get proper training and wear good quality protective gear you shouldn't have any major issues.


  • #4
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    95% of bike safety is common sense. Don't act the eejit and they're safe.
    My advice: get one!


  • #5
    PCPhoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    if you have biking in your blood (ie. you love biking) .... get a bike.

    I'm a cager but GF has a 650cc....its important to you to drive the way you enjoy.... it is more dangerous to drive a bike, but thats because other road users are not bike aware and bike conscious.

    bike driving does require 100% attention and even more road awareness than using a car.... you have to assume all other drivers are idiots and do not see you.


  • #6
    JohnnyCrash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 978 ✭✭✭JohnnyCrash


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Im thinking about getting back into bikes but the only thing holding me back is the safety issue. I would love a CBR250/Hornet 250, used to ride a NSR 125 but crashed it.
    Since ive given up biking all ive been hearing about biking is how dangerous it is, people on tv getting crippled etc.
    I love bikes, its just there is something in my head that I will either end up dead or in a wheelchair if I get back into bikes.
    Im not a dangerous driver, my crash was due to some scumbag pulling put in front of me. I respect the road.
    Any advice?!
    Ive gotten back on a bike for the first time in 26 years.A little trepidation at first,but you'll soon get back into what you loved,and you'll see what you've missed.Go for it,and if it doesnt feel right,you can always get rid. Nothing ventured and all that.....


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  • #7
    cantdecide
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Get some training and buy the bike or the pooty tat gets it

    killerpussy3.jpg


  • #8
    Nodster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Nodster


    Bikes are and always will be dangerous. In that accident were you going too fast/slid off during heavy braking, paying full attention what was ahead of you?
    Now you want to get back on a fairly pokey high reving 250?
    Did you ever have any formal/professional training?
    Would you consider putting the past firmly in the past and go and get some professional lessons and start a fresh?
    Would you forget the 250 and go back to something like a CG125/Innova 125 till you regain the confidence and relearn 'road skills'?

    Not trying to dish the idea, but I've been riding bikes [and only bikes!] legally since the late 70's and despite the miles clocked up since then - I've had accidents, thankfully never serious, but I'm still learning everytime I fasten my helmet and head out.
    Don't forget to get good biking gear - good quality will last years and offer the best protection in the event of an accident.


  • #9
    JohnnyCrash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 978 ✭✭✭JohnnyCrash


    No disrespect,but everything has the potential to be dangerous in the wrong hands!!! To make a statement like "Motorbikes are and always will be dangerous" is alarmist imo:eek:


  • #10
    cantdecide
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    The best phrase I've heard on the issue of bikes is; "Danger is a relative term. Walking down the street is dangerous".


  • #11
    Predator_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 578 ✭✭✭Predator_


    Well ive been searching the net this morning having a look at different bikes and my heart is set on a Ninja 250, I always loved the ZX6R and I think I could pick up a 2008 model next spring for around 3500. I will still be insured on a car so I will only be using it during the day and when it isn't raining. I will be taking it easy so I should be alright.
    In that accident were you going too fast/slid off during heavy braking, paying full attention what was ahead of you?

    Basically some scumbag idiot pulled out in front of me to turn into a petrol station on my side of the road. I deliberately dropped the bike in order to avoid going over his hood. He wasn't insured, left the scene and was never caught. I had to sell my bike for scrap, paid over 3 grand for it:mad:
    Did you ever have any formal/professional training?

    I did a few lessons before doing my bike test. I haven't been up on a bike for a few years now so ill take some more when/if I get a bike.


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  • #12
    reece
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭reece


    no matter how much training you have you're still likely to come a cropper from road conditions (slippery markings, oil, grit, etc) or idiot drivers. You can mitigate alot of the risk by knowing how to deal with the conditions and treating every driver like a moron - and acting accordingly.

    In the past 3 days I've yielded to a car that shot the red light by 3-4 seconds after going red, had a guy pull in front of me from a static lane into my moving lane, and had a guy pull out of a housing estate infront of me (heavy rain and bad road conditions at the time - have that on video btw).

    Gardai run a bike safe course that might be worth looking at. Pay attention and don't take risks and you reduce the risk further.


  • #13
    Predator_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 578 ✭✭✭Predator_


    Ninja 250 or Hornet 250? Which would ye recommend:D


  • #14
    Idleater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Ninja 250 or Hornet 250? Which would ye recommend:D

    Neither, if you're going to do it, do it right.

    Get a bike with some pizazz - like a BMW K1300R or Honda CBR 1100XX. :D


  • #15
    Pique
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭Pique


    nereid wrote: »
    Neither, if you're going to do it, do it right.

    Get a bike with some pizazz - like a BMW K1300R or Honda CBR 1100XX. :D

    Yawn.


  • #16
    Predator_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 578 ✭✭✭Predator_


    nereid wrote: »
    Neither, if you're going to do it, do it right.

    Get a bike with some pizazz - like a BMW K1300R or Honda CBR 1100XX. :D

    Would love to but my age and my provisional license would be a small problem!!


  • #17
    Predator_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 578 ✭✭✭Predator_


    Gonna go with the Ninja since the Hornet isnt learner legal:(


  • #18
    Idleater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    Pique wrote: »
    Yawn.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDEuLXLNGBo

    Zat voz ze joke


  • #19
    Idleater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Gonna go with the Ninja since the Hornet isnt learner legal:(

    To be fair, if you can afford the insurance on the ninja 250, it's a lovely looking bike. Saw one the other day and the chap on it looked like he was having a right blast!


  • #20
    RosieJoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭RosieJoe


    nereid wrote: »
    Neither, if you're going to do it, do it right.

    Get a bike with some pizazz - like a BMW K1300R or Honda CBR 1100XX. :D

    You're some bad fecker :D


  • #21
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Predator_ wrote: »
    Gonna go with the Ninja since the Hornet isnt learner legal:(

    All bikes can be made learner legal, it's cost about €200-€250. Don't base your decision on what power the bike makes, base it on how much you can afford for insurance. Only issue is you don't get any discount for a non factory restriction, but once you're 2 year restriction is up you'll have a new bike without the hassle of buying one:D


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  • #22
    martydunf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭martydunf


    Del2005 wrote: »
    All bikes can be made learner legal, it's cost about €200-€250. Don't base your decision on what power the bike makes, base it on how much you can afford for insurance. Only issue is you don't get any discount for a non factory restriction, but once you're 2 year restriction is up you'll have a new bike without the hassle of buying one:D

    ...and restrictions opens up more options for the OP. You mentioned the Hornet but theres also the Bandit, Fazer, 650V etc. which can all be made learner legal by putting restrictor kits on them.


  • #23
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    When I'm not on my Ducati, I ride my MP3 most days

    i.php?a=PiaggioMP3&i=-9.jpg&w=450&h=

    I'm not claiming it's an exciting sports bike. It is however very safe! While also allowing you to commute, filter and generally get around at motorcycle speeds. Might be a positive or negative for you, but whether you have the 125, 250, 400 or 500cc version you need a category B license to drive this, in other words a car license. Still taxed as a motorcycle though.


  • #24
    smellslikeshoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    When I'm not on my Ducati, I ride my MP3 most days

    i.php?a=PiaggioMP3&i=-9.jpg&w=450&h=

    I'm not claiming it's an exciting sports bike. It is however very safe! While also allowing you to commute, filter and generally get around at motorcycle speeds. Might be a positive or negative for you, but whether you have the 125, 250, 400 or 500cc version you need a category B license to drive this, in other words a car license. Still taxed as a motorcycle though.

    I don't see how it would be that much safer than a bike. Apart from it's ability to stay upright you're still just as vulnerable.


  • #25
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    When I'm not on my Ducati, I ride my MP3 most days

    i.php?a=PiaggioMP3&i=-9.jpg&w=450&h=

    I'm not claiming it's an exciting sports bike. It is however very safe! While also allowing you to commute, filter and generally get around at motorcycle speeds. Might be a positive or negative for you, but whether you have the 125, 250, 400 or 500cc version you need a category B license to drive this, in other words a car license. Still taxed as a motorcycle though.

    Stop trying to get cred, no matter what else you ride you lose all respect with a 3 wheeled scooter!


  • #26
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    smellslikeshoes wrote: »
    I don't see how it would be that much safer than a bike. Apart from it's ability to stay upright you're still just as vulnerable.

    Near the start of the year I rode it while it was snowing, definitive safety advantages in the snow. That's just an extreme example. But when you're saying you don't see how it can be safer, I'm assuming your referring to being hit by a car or something similar? Because not skidding/losing traction and dying as a result is probably important as well. How many times do we see on the news bikers dying in accidents with no other vehicles involved?

    There's lots of examples where having two front wheels means you stand a better chance of not falling over at speed and getting hurt.

    1. It's raining and you go into a corner and your front tyre hits a diesel patch. With one wheel in the front its very likely to fold and you go down. On the MP3 if you lose grip for a moment you'll understeer briefly in the corner.

    2. You're in an emergency situation and need to stop really really quickly. It also happens to be raining as it does occasionally in Ireland. Details don't matter, most riders will likely encounter situations where they need to stop as fast as possible. I don't know about you, but it's not easy for me to get maximum safe braking force in the rain with only one front tyre. How much braking force before you lock the front and drop?

    Basically I think there are a lot of situations where you're braking or cornering where having two contact patches in the front is a big advantage. After all you put more stress on front tyres when cornering and braking, extra front tyre = half the load on each when cornering and braking.


  • #27
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Stop trying to get cred, no matter what else you ride you lose all respect with a 3 wheeled scooter!

    When I want to have fun I take out my Monster. Other times I just want to get to work or to the shops etc. I know for whatever reason some Irish people do find 3 wheeled vehicles amusing. Oh well there loss I say! I don't think this country has any claim on being cool etc, go to Paris an you'd be hard pressed not to find 3 to 5 of them parked at every street corner :)

    OP wanted a reason to go back on a bike, I've lost count of the number of middle aged guys coming up to me and asking me about the MP3. Most times they tell me they had a bike when they were younger but gave up for the usual reasons - safety being mentioned most times. They all seemed interested in the safety aspect of the design and the fact that they could ride any size version on their car license.

    Putting aside silly stuff like "it has 3 wheels, ho ho ho", it's a modern vehicle perfectly suited to urban/suburban environments. Tax is cheap (72 I think), fuel economy excellent, 65 litres of storage before you even think about putting on a top box, safety is excellent for this class of vehicle and you get great weather protection etc. No idea how much to insure by itself, but my M900 and MP3 are both covered on one policy fully comp for 600.

    * Oh and it's not too big to filter. Widest point on any bike is the handlebars and this bike is no exception. The MP3 can filter while making good progress in all weather conditions, including snow & ice.


  • #28
    smellslikeshoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    Near the start of the year I rode it while it was snowing, definitive safety advantages in the snow. That's just an extreme example. But when you're saying you don't see how it can be safer, I'm assuming your referring to being hit by a car or something similar? Because not skidding/losing traction and dying as a result is probably important as well. How many times do we see on the news bikers dying in accidents with no other vehicles involved?

    There's lots of examples where having two front wheels means you stand a better chance of not falling over at speed and getting hurt.

    1. It's raining and you go into a corner and your front tyre hits a diesel patch. With one wheel in the front its very likely to fold and you go down. On the MP3 if you lose grip for a moment you'll understeer briefly in the corner.

    2. You're in an emergency situation and need to stop really really quickly. It also happens to be raining as it does occasionally in Ireland. Details don't matter, most riders will likely encounter situations where they need to stop as fast as possible. I don't know about you, but it's not easy for me to get maximum safe braking force in the rain with only one front tyre. How much braking force before you lock the front and drop?

    Basically I think there are a lot of situations where you're braking or cornering where having two contact patches in the front is a big advantage. After all you put more stress on front tyres when cornering and braking, extra front tyre = half the load on each when cornering and braking.

    I thought I covered that quite well by saying it's ability to keep upright.I never said that it wasn't a little safer than a bike but holding that abomination up as a bastion of safety is silly.


  • #29
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Better of starting on a cheap crusier imo to get used to biking. Then move to a decent 600 'sports' type of machine. That's what I did anyway.


  • #30
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    smellslikeshoes wrote: »
    I thought I covered that quite well by saying it's ability to keep upright.I never said that it wasn't a little safer than a bike but holding that abomination up as a bastion of safety is silly.

    Firstly your use of the adjective "abomination" spells out pretty clearly the angle you're coming from. I'll just say on that point, that I'm just as much into biker culture as most other bikers are. But at the end of the day they're just vehicles for having a bit of fun on or getting you from A to B. I don't have a fixed unmovable concept in my mind of what a bike, a car or any other vehicle HAS to be.

    Anyway you seem to casually dismiss the ability to stay upright as not that important. I don't think most experienced bikers would agree with you. Secondly I also pointed out it has superior braking ability, is that not also vitally important in safety? Or should motorcycle manufacturers stop investing in new braking technology? Maybe go back to drum brakes, bring down the cost of motorcycles :p


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  • #31
    EvilMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭EvilMonkey


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    Because not skidding/losing traction and dying as a result is probably important as well. How many times do we see on the news bikers dying in accidents with no other vehicles involved?
    Very few, as far as I can tell.


  • #32
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    EvilMonkey wrote: »
    Very few, as far as I can tell.

    Some interesting reading here, UK story but relevant to us as we have similar environment and drive on the same side of the road:

    http://www.survivalskills.clara.net/riding_skills_6.htm
    The Dutch study in particular showed that losing control in bends was a significant factor. The Cheshire figures show that accidents involving misjudging bends make up 40% of accidents in rural areas. The fatality rate for these kind of accidents is high. This was made clear in our local IAM magazine a couple of years ago when a serving police officer revealed that out of twelve riders killed in Kent in a year, eleven lost control on bends. The Dutch study also found that many of the accidents investigated would have been less serious, or avoided altogether, if the rider had been able to make an emergency stop.
    Conclusion

    So, research shows that claims that power causes accidents is flawed. But so is the traditional motorcyclist's view that it is blind Volvo drivers that kill motorcyclists.

    Riding experts like the IAM agree that speed and power alone don't kill. Speed in the wrong place, speed without judgement, speed without skill can and does.

    The evidence also pinpoints the sad fact that a lot of us can't manage to negotiate corners without falling off or hitting oncoming vehicles, and when we get it wrong, the result is often very bad indeed. The message John Moss is giving is that it is down to us as riders to put our house in order. As a member of MAG, he can hardly be classed as a killjoy or a scaremongerer. "Get trained and improve your riding skills" he says. With the proper skills you can have fun, but be safe at the same time.

    I think it's a bit sad that cultural aversion to three wheeled vehicles, that aren't considered 'proper motorcycles' might hinder the uptake of what is a safer design and a more useful vehicle for the average commuter. I'm not attributing that to anyone in particular, just a general observation I've made since I started using an MP3. It's not like they could replace sport bikes or cruisers. Just maybe some people would own one as a second daily runner (like me) or others who wouldn't get back into motorcycles, or consider them in the first place might get one.


  • #33
    EvilMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭EvilMonkey


    Oops scratch that, i red that as new bikers were dying in single vehicle accidents. I need to learn to read properly move along :o

    Yes there is a high proportion of bikers dying in single vehicle accidents. Most are supposedly "experienced" bikers too.

    3 wheels might be a a bit more stable, they wont stop people misjudging corners though. Proper training would be more effective safety measure than getting a 3 wheeled bike for safety reasons.

    I have no problem with three wheeled vehicles look like they could be handy in some circumstances.

    I prefer the ones with 2 at the back though :)


  • #34
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    EvilMonkey wrote: »
    Oops scratch that, i red that as new bikers were dying in single vehicle accidents. I need to learn to read properly move along :o

    Yes there is a high proportion of bikers dying in single vehicle accidents. Most are supposedly "experienced" bikers too.

    3 wheels might be a a bit more stable, they wont stop people misjudging corners though. Proper training would be more effective safety measure than getting a 3 wheeled bike for safety reasons.

    I have no problem with three wheeled vehicles look like they could be handy in some circumstances.

    I prefer the ones with 2 at the back though :)

    NP I agree with you on training. Good observation and being trained in a system that is geared towards rider safety (ROSPA motorcycle training?) is definitely the first thing to look at. But just think about the thought processes that most people have when choosing a car based on safety. Does it have airbags? does it have ESP? ABS? is FWD? RWD? or 4WD? We're all human, we all mess up at times! Inevitably when you have that momentary lapse of concentration it would be nice to have a motorcycle with traction control and ABS (BMW S1000RR) or a scooter with three wheels :)

    Just my opinion on the scooters with the two wheels on the back. When you brake the centre of gravity shifts forward. In car terms that's why cars have bigger discs and calipers on the front, same for motorcycles. So when you're braking and the weight of motorcycle plus rider shifts forward, it is better to have more tyre grip in the front than in the back. Something similar for cornering as well. Two wheels at the back would probably have the advantage of not kicking out the back end on corners so much if you were too throttle happy while cornering. Ideally I'd like two wheels in front, traction control to control the single rear wheel better and ABS fitted for more control in emergency braking. Just looking at this article

    http://motorcycles.about.com/od/bmw/fr/2010-BMW-S1000rr-Review.htm
    Wet weight is 450 pounds (or 455 pounds with ABS), and unladen seat height measures 32 inches.

    BMW's newest ABS system only adds 2.3KG of weight to the bike. Not really much of a disincentive for adding this kind of system to bikes. At least as an optional extra! I'd certainly have it for my MP3 or sports bike.


  • #35
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    three wheelers are cool and two at the front is the way to go

    however !

    a car lisence to ride ? thats crazy its a bike with an extra wheel not a car missing one

    anyway everyone starting out can get this then on a b lisence

    cool

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyKgNuThKUQ&feature=related


  • #36
    EvilMonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭EvilMonkey


    Tigger wrote: »
    a car lisence to ride ? thats crazy its a bike with an extra wheel not a car missing one

    Does that mean you don't have to wear a helmet? :eek:


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  • #37
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    EvilMonkey wrote: »
    Does that mean you don't have to wear a helmet? :eek:
    From: Licensing Queries [mailto:LicensingQueries@rsa.ie]
    Sent: 26 May 2009 14:21
    To: ****, ****
    Subject: FW: What licence required?
    Hi ****

    A tricycle is regarded as a vehicle in category "B" for driver licensing purposes, and the driver is therefore required to hold a category "B" driving licence.

    Regards
    Breda
    Driving Licensing Section

    In the rest of Europe you need a motorcycle license for this vehicle. You can however drive it on a car license throughout the rest of Europe if you get your Piaggio dealer to put some spacers on the front wheels. Apparently if they're 1 or 2 cm wider it then counts as a car in Europe. Piaggio make an "MP3 LT" version which is already slightly wider at the front.

    http://www.uk.piaggio.com/en_UK/prodotti/mp3_lt/default.aspx

    However in Ireland you need a car license for both the MP3 and MP3 LT. To answer your question I doubt you're legally required to wear a helmet since it is definitely category B in this country. I bought mine in London, so I can confirm VRT is based on the motorcycle system and just checked my wallet, road tax is €76 per year.


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