M1 Garand?

Ardennes1944 · 16-12-2010 4:23pm #1

ok this probably doesn't belong here guys and im sorry but i couldn't find another thread suitable. i read somewhere lately that it is legal in this country to own a bolt action rifle from ww2. is this true? and does the M1 Garand qualify as bolt action?
thank you

Manic Moran · 16-12-2010 6:28pm

Go to 'Sports... Shooting', and post in there.

But in a nutshell, yes, there is little issue with a bolt-action rifle. Technically, any sort of rifle is legal in Ireland, though some are categorised as 'restricted' and are much harder to get a license for.

The Garand is not a bolt action, it is a semi-auto, although not an evil-looking-one, so would likely pass the infamous Garda "Idunlikedalookadat" test. I have no idea if it counts as 'restricted' or not, rest assured the lads over at 'Shooting' can give you the lowdown.

NTM

kowloon · 22-12-2010 3:53pm

Guy in Galway was selling them converted to fire .308 (more common).
They're a bit more hassle to get than, say a Lee Enfield or the likes, but still legal.

killerking · 25-12-2010 12:11am

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

ok this probably doesn't belong here guys and im sorry but i couldn't find another thread suitable. i read somewhere lately that it is legal in this country to own a bolt action rifle from ww2. is this true? and does the M1 Garand qualify as bolt action?
thank you

The M1 Garand is a clip fed 8 round semi-automatic rifle.

This is a clip of the weapon in action - as long as the operator presses the trigger the gas operated mechanism of the weapon will cycle - ejecting the spent cartridge and automatically reloading a fresh round as long as there is ammo in the clip. After the 8 rounds are expended the weapon ejects the metal clip which makes a 'ping' noise.

This is a video of the weapon in action:

A bolt-action rifle is a manually operated weapon - Mauser 98K, Mosin-Nagant, Lee-Enfield etc.

These weapons have a bolt that is drawn back and forth by a handle.
To load the operator opens the breech by lifting the bolt handle, drawing it back, stuff the 6 round or 5 round clip into the top and then closing the breech again.
With each pull of the trigger, the operator must cycle the bolt to eject the spent casing and shave a fresh round off the top of the clip by push the bolt back into position and pull the trigger again.

This video shows a bolt action rifle in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XozgC-hr3Q

Because of the Troubles in Ireland only .22 caliber bolt-action rifles and twelve-gauge shotguns are allowed and only for the purposes of hunting of deer (as far as I know the licensing of deer rifles is very strict because the same weapon could be used to kill a prominent politician or attack security forces) and controlling vermin like crows, foxes, rabbits etc.

Heavier caliber high velocity rifles of especially the .30-06 caliber M1 Garand are strictly prohibited unless the owner has special legal permission.

Ardennes1944 · 25-12-2010 1:40am

thanks guys, ill enquire with my local garda. can anyone give me a list of ww2 rifles that are legal in this country? or even a few? thank you

Manic Moran · 25-12-2010 10:31am

Again, check out the shooting forum, but it's easier to say which WWII rifles are not easily allowed. A Stg-44 would be one of them. You'll have far better luck getting a Garand than an AR15.

Because of the Troubles in Ireland only .22 caliber bolt-action rifles and twelve-gauge shotguns are allowed and only for the purposes of hunting of deer (as far as I know the licensing of deer rifles is very strict because the same weapon could be used to kill a prominent politician or attack security forces) and controlling vermin like crows, foxes, rabbits etc

Erm... The rules on firearms have changed at least twice since GFA. And even at the time that the rules were at their strictest, you could get something bigger than .22LR for deer hunting. (.243 at least, if memory serves). Frankly, a .22LR wouldn't have the power to do the job.

NTM

killerking · 25-12-2010 10:49am

Manic Moran wrote: »

Again, check out the shooting forum, but it's easier to say which WWII rifles are not easily allowed. A Stg-44 would be one of them. You'll have far better luck getting a Garand than an AR15.

Erm... The rules on firearms have changed at least twice since GFA. And even at the time that the rules were at their strictest, you could get something bigger than .22LR for deer hunting. (.243 at least, if memory serves). Frankly, a .22LR wouldn't have the power to do the job.

NTM

There are more .22 bullets than just .22LR.

killerking · 25-12-2010 10:53am

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

thanks guys, ill enquire with my local garda. can anyone give me a list of ww2 rifles that are legal in this country? or even a few? thank you

None of them would be legal in Ireland because they are all about .30 caliber.

You would only be allowed to own deactivated rifles or replicas.

kowloon · 26-12-2010 7:57pm

I've seen quite a few rifles in Ireland in the .30 cal range. .303s are quite common, .308s even moreso. You are, however, unlikely to be allowed one on your first licence.

Ignore Manic, he'll only show you pictures of lovely shiny things and then smash your dreams by telling you why you'll never be able to own them in Ireland.

kowloon · 26-12-2010 8:02pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pqj6SiAxYc

xflyer · 29-12-2010 7:01pm

Ouch I feel for him, there's a picture of me out there, on the range in Gormanston in shirt sleeve order firing a .303. It hurts I can tell you. In the photo my beret is strategically placed to cushion the recoil. It has to be said that proper technique will minimise the hurt experienced.

I would like to get a Lee Enfield someday, if only deactivated. But you can get them and Garands and licence them. A shop in Galway was selling Garands last year.

Manic Moran · 29-12-2010 7:51pm

xflyer wrote: »

Ouch I feel for him, there's a picture of me out there, on the range in Gormanston in shirt sleeve order firing a .303. It hurts I can tell you. In the photo my beret is strategically placed to cushion the recoil. It has to be said that proper technique will minimise the hurt experienced.

You need to find a Mosin and fire that. .303 isn't all that bad, really, I spent quite a happy few dollars banging away on my No4Mk1 over the weekend. My buddy brought his Mosin, the difference is shocking. That is a rifle where padding is quite acceptable. (Plus you have the shorter stock due to the thick Russian coats)

NTM

Manic Moran · 29-12-2010 8:28pm

killerking wrote: »

There are more .22 bullets than just .22LR.

This is true, and none, with the possible exception of .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer, are particularly noted for their capability against deer.

Even 5.56mm NATO (.223) is considered too weak to be a legal deer-hunting calibre in many jurisdictions.

Not only do I have recollection of larger bolt-actions in Ireland in the 1990s, your post below indicates that your credibility on the subject is highly suspect.

None of them would be legal in Ireland because they are all about .30 caliber.

You would only be allowed to own deactivated rifles or replicas.

NTM

xflyer · 30-12-2010 1:29am

Damm those Russians, NTM, they were right hard. The Moisins are quite popular since JFK got offed by one.

But like I said if you get the technique right, you can minimise the bruising. You are too soft with your M4s and your Abrams gun. All you have to do with the latter is shout 'Fire'. Your gunner has all the work to do.

I know Kalifornia is not exactly gun utopia for the NRA but compared to the old country it's paradise. Enjoy!

Manic Moran · 30-12-2010 8:20am

xflyer wrote: »

Damm those Russians, NTM, they were right hard. The Moisins are quite popular since JFK got offed by one.

Erm, LHO used a Carcano.

NTM

killerking · 30-12-2010 11:17am

Manic Moran wrote: »

This is true, and none, with the possible exception of .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer, are particularly noted for their capability against deer.

Even 5.56mm NATO (.223) is considered too weak to be a legal deer-hunting calibre in many jurisdictions.

Not only do I have recollection of larger bolt-actions in Ireland in the 1990s, your post below indicates that your credibility on the subject is highly suspect.

NTM

This is the firearms law in Ireland:

From 2008 http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammunition%20S.I..pdf/Files/Restricted%20Firearms%20and%20Ammunition%20S.I..pdf

and amended in 2009

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/SI%20337%20of%202009.pdf/Files/SI%20337%20of%202009.pdf

xflyer · 30-12-2010 11:32am

Killerking, you might want to have a word with these guys too. They seem to believe they can have larger calibre rifles in Ireland.

http://www.vcrai.com/

I would also suggest the OP get in touch with them too. I imagine they would be the experts on the subject.

NTM, I stand duly corrected on the Carcano, for some reason I had it in my head it was Russian thus a Moisin.

killerking · 30-12-2010 11:45am

xflyer wrote: »

Killerking, you might want to have a word with these guys too. They seem to believe they can have larger calibre rifles in Ireland.

http://www.vcrai.com/

I would also suggest the OP get in touch with them too. I imagine they would be the experts on the subject.

NTM, I stand duly corrected on the Carcano, for some reason I had it in my head it was Russian thus a Moisin.

My point was that owning and shooting a M1 Garand is highly restricted.
Unless you have special permission you can't legally own or shoot one of these military weapons.
Owning and shooting high velocity hunting rifles is also highly restricted because they can be used by criminals.
Because of gangland violence and dissident republican activity, the government does not want dangerous people getting hold of military rifles - bolt-action, semi-automatic or fully automatic.

CJhaughey · 30-12-2010 12:17pm

In the bad old days .22 cal was the largest cal available, hence people shooting deer usually used the .22/250 which is really a varmint round.
Now we have a little more sense and insist on muzzle energy figure.
Calibres up to .30 cal in bolt action are unrestricted.
and semi-autos can also be unrestricted unless they are under 90cm in length
Bullpup configuration is also grounds for restriction as is any rifle that resembles an assault rifle.
To the best of my knowledge there are no fully automatic rifles licensed to civilians in Ireland, however there are many semi-autos licensed.
To be honest the whole troubles issue is a non-issue these days, if dissidents want to get weapons they just buy them from other criminals and bring them in with drugs, they aren't in the habit of applying for licenses from the Gardai.
These are the commissioners guidelines and may make it a little clearer as to what is and isn't restricted.
http://garda.ie/Documents/User/Commissioners%20Guidelines%204.pdf

xflyer · 30-12-2010 12:56pm

Yes you do need a licence and you have to jump through a number of loops to get one. But the point is that you can get one. I'm quite sure that someone like myself could get his hands on a Garand eventually after satisfying all the ridiculous requirements put in place by the clowns who run this country at the moment.

As for keeping guns like that out of criminal's hand. Well what a joke that is. A Garda told me it's never been easier to get your hands on an illegal gun or rifle.They won't be bothering with bolt action or any long rifles when they can pick up an AK for next to nothing. This isn't the place for a debate on gun laws but they are a farce. The only people they deter are law abiding citizens with no intent to harm anyone.

killerking · 30-12-2010 3:08pm

xflyer wrote: »

Yes you do need a licence and you have to jump through a number of loops to get one. But the point is that you can get one. I'm quite sure that someone like myself could get his hands on a Garand eventually after satisfying all the ridiculous requirements put in place by the clowns who run this country at the moment.

As for keeping guns like that out of criminal's hand. Well what a joke that is. A Garda told me it's never been easier to get your hands on an illegal gun or rifle.They won't be bothering with bolt action or any long rifles when they can pick up an AK for next to nothing. This isn't the place for a debate on gun laws but they are a farce. The only people they deter are law abiding citizens with no intent to harm anyone.

And what exactly do you need an M1 Garand for?

I prefer a peaceful society where people aren't going up into bell towers of churches to pick people off.

kowloon · 30-12-2010 6:06pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

You need to find a Mosin and fire that. .303 isn't all that bad, really, I spent quite a happy few dollars banging away on my No4Mk1 over the weekend. My buddy brought his Mosin, the difference is shocking. That is a rifle where padding is quite acceptable. (Plus you have the shorter stock due to the thick Russian coats)

NTM

Not sure how they got boys in the militias to hold up to the carbine versions.
I hear the No. 5 Jungle Carbine kicks a bit, there's a pad on that one though.

CJhaughey · 30-12-2010 6:10pm

killerking wrote: »

And what exactly do you need an M1 Garand for?

I prefer a peaceful society where people aren't going up into bell towers of churches to pick people off.

This is a pretty insulting comment, whats the difference between an M1 Garand and a Deer stalking rifle?
Where in Ireland has a person climbed into a belfry and shot a passerby with a military rifle?
I think you are jumping to daft conclusions and to get on topic the link to the VCRAI has already been posted, there are lots of people with an interest in shooting that enjoy using classic military rifles in target shooting.
No harm in that is there?
You do know that in rifle shooting there is a 100% safety record in the sport?

killerking · 30-12-2010 6:28pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

This is a pretty insulting comment, whats the difference between an M1 Garand and a Deer stalking rifle?
Where in Ireland has a person climbed into a belfry and shot a passerby with a military rifle?
I think you are jumping to daft conclusions and to get on topic the link to the VCRAI has already been posted, there are lots of people with an interest in shooting that enjoy using classic military rifles in target shooting.
No harm in that is there?
You do know that in rifle shooting there is a 100% safety record in the sport?

We've had quite a lot of IRA snipers down through the years thank you very much.
I'm sure there are some responsible people who just want to have some fun and target shoot but these lethal weapons should never be easily available to unstable people and besides republican violence/gangland crime, we have a lot of suicides, depression, drug/alcohol addicts etc in this country and we certainly don't need them getting hold of M1 Garands or other more modern semi-automatic or automatic weapons which is why we need draconian laws in place.
In the US, M16s and AK-47 rifles not to mention high velocity hunting rifles are freely available to citizens. The level of gun crime in the US is out of control with some parts of major cities as nearly as violent as any Third World dump.
We don't need that kind of lunacy in this country, that's for sure.
Only the Army and the Gardai should have access to that level of firepower.
If people want to buy these kind of weapons and own them when they are designed for nothing else but for the battlefield you have to wonder about their sanity to be quite honest.

Manic Moran · 30-12-2010 8:21pm

We've had quite a lot of IRA snipers down through the years thank you very much.

How many of them went to the Gardai to obtain a license for their rifle?

I'm sure there are some responsible people who just want to have some fun and target shoot but these lethal weapons should never be easily available to unstable people and besides republican violence/gangland crime, we have a lot of suicides, depression, drug/alcohol addicts etc in this country and we certainly don't need them getting hold of M1 Garands or other more modern semi-automatic or automatic weapons which is why we need draconian laws in place.

I believe you'll find that the current licensing system in Ireland generally does tend to keep legally owned firearms of all sorts out of the hands of unstable people, gangland members, and the like.

In the US, M16s and AK-47 rifles not to mention high velocity hunting rifles are freely available to citizens. The level of gun crime in the US is out of control with some parts of major cities as nearly as violent as any Third World dump.

In Switzerland, the government issues you a military grade rifle to keep in your home, and even pays for your ammunition when you decide to carry it down the street (stopping off at the shop for some water) to the range on Sunday. Children as young as 13 are encouraged to shoot the Sg-90 (current Swiss Army rifle) in official government competitions. The level of gun crime is fairly low. It's not bad in Israel either, actually, once you get past the Palstinian/Lebanese/Israeli conflict.

Why cannot a rifle-available Ireland be compared to Switzerland or Holland and not the US? Have you been inside a German gun shop recently?

NTM

killerking · 30-12-2010 9:11pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

How many of them went to the Gardai to obtain a license for their rifle?

Lots of legally owned shotguns and rifles ended up in IRA hands.

I believe you'll find that the current licensing system in Ireland generally does tend to keep legally owned firearms of all sorts out of the hands of unstable people, gangland members, and the like.

Let's keep it that way.

In Switzerland, the government issues you a military grade rifle to keep in your home, and even pays for your ammunition when you decide to carry it down the street (stopping off at the shop for some water) to the range on Sunday. Children as young as 13 are encouraged to shoot the Sg-90 (current Swiss Army rifle) in official government competitions. The level of gun crime is fairly low. It's not bad in Israel either, actually, once you get past the Palstinian/Lebanese/Israeli conflict.

Letting people own and letting kids shoot military grade rifles in the absence of a military conflict is insanity. In Israel they are surrounded by Muslim lunatics so that makes sense. Not in the land of cuckoo clocks and chocolate and certainly not in Ireland.

Why cannot a rifle-available Ireland be compared to Switzerland or Holland and not the US? Have you been inside a German gun shop recently?

Germans owning guns makes me uneasy for obvious reasons.

An armed society is quite frankly nuts.

Sod'o swords · 30-12-2010 9:24pm

killerking wrote: »

In Israel they are surrounded by Muslim lunatics so that makes sense.

Not in the land of cuckoo clocks and chocolate

Germans owning guns makes me uneasy for obvious reasons.

Well judging by this post and your post's previous, you seem to be the type of person who has, strong, opinions, and won't be swayed by reason or debate.

Morlar · 30-12-2010 9:37pm

killerking wrote: »

Germans owning guns makes me uneasy for obvious reasons.

Why does private firearm ownership by German citizens make you uneasy ?

SpannerMonkey · 30-12-2010 9:40pm

there is almost no calibre that you technically cannot have in ireland , just the bigger you go the harder it is to get a licence if you want a small .22lr or a shotgun it is very easy get one just basically apply i had my licence's 4 weeks after i applied , i have fired a lee enfield .303 at the midlands range with a friend of mine he has a legally held one as did many of the lads there you can get a M1 garand but because it is a semi auto it can be a bit trickier to get but not impossible by any means and while the original M1 was a 30-06 springfield round most of the licenced ones in this country are a .308 , as said post over in the shooting section as some of the lads over there have these guns

Manic Moran · 30-12-2010 9:50pm

killerking wrote: »

Lots of legally owned shotguns and rifles ended up in IRA hands.

Realistically, let's talk about proportions. How many legally owned shotguns and rifles out of the civil populations ended up in PIRA hands? And how many of the PIRA's weapons were legally owned shotguns and rifles? There were barracks raids, there were Libyan shipments, there were the Armalite shipments from the US... In terms of effect, I don't think Farmer O' Flaherty's .303 stolen in 1969 really had particular statistical significance.

Let's keep it that way.

That's fine, I don't think anyone is proposing any major changes to the current situation.

Letting people own and letting kids shoot military grade rifles in the absence of a military conflict is insanity.

Why? Nobody's getting hurt, and it's a useful skill and sport. (And waiting until a military conflict starts is arguably too late)

Germans owning guns makes me uneasy for obvious reasons.

This should be entertaining.

An armed society is quite frankly nuts.

Given that most every country in Europe licenses handguns and center-fire semi-automatic rifles, and that Ireland and the UK are rather anachronisms in the world at large in this respect, are you implying that most other countries in the world are nuts?

There seems to be this bizarre conception that an inanimate object, when taken into the hands of a person, suddenly becomes this corrupting, dangerous source of evil, that the mere presence of a firearm outside of a very regimented and specific environment should cause concern and panic.

From this photo essay:
http://www.geo.fr/photos/reportages-geo/les-suisses-neutres-mais-armes-jusqu-aux-dents/

file.php?id=1543

That's what is possible. The rifle is simply another item on the street, legally owned, legally used, and causing no panic whatsoever.

[Edit, for those who don't speak French, the translations:

1) For safety, the selector's been blocked, but Michele, 9, already knows how to aim the SIG550, Swiss service rifle. She only has to wait a few more months before she can partake in competitions, open to ten years and older.

2) Men are entered into the Army at 18. They undertake an 18-week recruit course. Plus, every year until age 30 for junior enlisted, and 50 for higher ranks, they must do a three week period. Employers must allow the absence.

3) Andrea Brülhmann, 26, is a member of the Olympic shooting team. She combines her training with teaching young participants in the sport. To supplement her income, she babysits. Parents can rest easy!

4) Psychology Student Kristina Krepelka , left, trains with mobile silhouette targets. the 21-year-old is also an instructor for Youth of Geneva.

5) Water pistols are forbidden! The children of the Fontana family are also not alllowed to play with toy guns. The parents would prefer they understood the dangers of real firearms, before partaking, as a family, in the love of shooting.

6) The Walsers are excellent shots, and practice twice a week. Mom's a teacher, Dad a judge. Albert, (16) is in secondary school, while his brother, 18, is about to enter recruit training, the first stage of his military obligation.

7) On their 16th birthdays, boys and girls are sent a letter from the Shooting Federation to attend free courses on the Army's assault rifle.

8) The great historical battles are celebrated, such as on 22JUN10 in Morat, where some 500 shooters gathered for the anniversary of the Swiss defeat of the Duke of Bourgogne in 1476.

9) Certainly it is not encouraged to go strolling everywhere with your weapon, but stopping to run an errand on the way back from the range is accepted. The sight of the gun bothers nobody.

10) Participants at a shooting competition at an armory equipped for the purpose.

11) Over three million rounds are fired in a month at the 2010 Schutzenfest, a federal shooting festival in Aarau. Every five years for over a century, this event has gathered shooters from over the country. This June, over 50,000 people participated.

12) These shooting enthusiasts are gathered in Morat to share their mutual passion.
NTM

killerking · 31-12-2010 12:41am

There seems to be this bizarre conception that an inanimate object, when taken into the hands of a person, suddenly becomes this corrupting, dangerous source of evil, that the mere presence of a firearm outside of a very regimented and specific environment should cause concern and panic.

What is bizarre about that conception?
I don't see any armed bandits riding around on trucks waving rifles and grenade launchers raping and pillaging the Irish countryside so I fail to see why anyone needs to own semi-automatic or automatic military grade rifles.
The Black and Tans are long gone, the UVF and the IRA are disarmed and this country has had an unarmed police force since 1922.
Unless you are in a shooting club or re-enactment society - you have no business owning any military grade weapon for any reason unless you are a wacko who wants to start a small war.

At the moment this country is undergoing economic and political unheaval.

The thought of thousands of people armed to the teeth already with shotguns and rifles is bad enough. It would be a nightmare if a group of individuals styling themselves as revolutionaries decided to turn up and take over a town or major urban area.

Manic Moran · 31-12-2010 1:13am

killerking wrote: »

What is bizarre about that conception?

Well, for starters, pieces of metal, plastic and wood don't have magical evil powers.

I don't see any armed bandits riding around on trucks waving rifles and grenade launchers raping and pillaging the Irish countryside so I fail to see why anyone needs to own semi-automatic or automatic military grade rifles.

Here's the odd thing about a free society. "Need" doesn't really enter into it. Do you need most anything you own, or need to do anything you do? You don't need a nice car and you don't need a pint, but we can still drive and we can still drink. (Or combine the two, with unfortunate results). Most every country in Europe, save the Vatican, issues licenses to the general public who want them for centre-fire semi-auto rifles if some conditions are met, and don't seem to have a wave of particular problems coming as a result.

Unless you are in a shooting club or re-enactment society - you have no business owning any military grade weapon for any reason unless you are a wacko who wants to start a small war.

Despite the fact that the chances are that most people who will get licenses for such firearms will be in shooting clubs as a matter of course, is a law-abiding private citizen who is a member of a shooting club somehow less of a risk to public safety than a law-abiding private citizen who is not a member of a shooting club?

The thought of thousands of people armed to the teeth already with shotguns and rifles is bad enough. It would be a nightmare if a group of individuals styling themselves as revolutionaries decided to turn up and take over a town or major urban area.

Greece is in a worse situation than Ireland in the financial regimen, needing the bailout earlier. Greece also licenses handguns and military calibre rifles to its citizens for sporting purposes (including for concealed carry defence, if you can justify it), and in Crete you can own fully-automatic assault rifles with little restriction. Thus far, I have not seen a group of armed revolutionaries storming Athens or Akrotiri.

NTM

killerking · 31-12-2010 11:28am

Do you need most anything you own, or need to do anything you do? You don't need a nice car and you don't need a pint, but we can still drive and we can still drink.

A person has no good reason to own a high velocity fully automatic rifle in Ireland. I don't want to live in a society where there are people armed with these weapons because I don't want to be DEAD thank you very much.

End of discussion.

xflyer · 31-12-2010 11:37am

Really Killerking, clearly you have little or no exposure to firearms of any sort. So you've built them up in your mind as some sort of terrifying threat to society. Quite a common view in fact borne of ignorance and propaganda. Meanwhile in the real world gun ownership is common in Ireland and has been for some time despite the complications put in place by people who think like you.

So if I want to own an old military rifle and it's legal then it's none of your business why I want to own it. I'm not insane and neither are any gun owners. Shooting if you care to look it up on these forums is under the Sports section. It's a sport, target shooting is fun and requires a great deal of skill. That is a good enough reason to try anything.

In fact this debate you sparked with your ill considered views has got me thinking. I'm seriously thinking about getting a rifle now, several friends have one. I must look into it.

Sod'o swords · 31-12-2010 4:40pm

killerking wrote: »

A person has no good reason to own a high velocity fully automatic rifle in Ireland. I don't want to live in a society where there are people armed with these weapons because I don't want to be DEAD thank you very much.

End of discussion.

Killerking, if i wanted to kill you i could pick up a shoe and bludgeon you to death with it, or run you over in my car, which has killed far, faaaaaar more people than guns in this country.

If people have the mentality to harm others they certainty don't need a gun to do so.

People have robbed shops with their hands in plastic bags passing them off as guns.

I'm guessing you're heard too many stories about America where it's 'easier to get a gun than alcohol' so you just assume that's the case everywhere. Which even in america, it isn't.

If someone wanted to go postal on a shopping centre or a school here they still could get a gun, they'd have to go through a drug dealer or the likes but they could still get one.

CJhaughey · 31-12-2010 7:45pm

killerking wrote: »

A person has no good reason to own a high velocity fully automatic rifle in Ireland. I don't want to live in a society where there are people armed with these weapons because I don't want to be DEAD thank you very much.

End of discussion.

Well as I have said before as far as fully auto rifles go, there are none in civilian ownership AFAIK.So your fears are groundless.
You do realise that the vetting process is very strict here? That in order to get a license you have to give your GP's number to the Gardai?
Not alone that but any violent act on your part assault etc will disqualify you from owning a firearm.
It is definately not a case of walking up and just paying for the firearm and walking out of a shop.
Thats why shooting is such a safe sport.

kowloon · 31-12-2010 10:48pm

Everyone I've met in Ireland who owns a gun was very responsible and safe, I wish I could say the same about all the eejits on the roads.

Morlar · 01-01-2011 12:14am

Originally Posted by killerking View Post
Germans owning guns makes me uneasy for obvious reasons.

Morlar wrote: »

Why does private firearm ownership by German citizens make you uneasy ?

Hi Killerking - would it be possible for you to circle back and address this question I asked you a page or so back ?

Ardennes1944 · 02-01-2011 10:05pm

god i only wanted a list of the guns i could possibly own and its developed into such a stupid argument. guns can be for sport, just like archery is.

marcsignal · 03-01-2011 7:06am

@ killerking

Me and my Gustaf 1990

still don't feel like killing anyone yet, and it's 2011 already:pac:

jonniebgood1 · 03-01-2011 12:40pm

Mark Bizon with his gun. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20011891-504083.html

While people may be indignant as they are responsible gun owners, there are also those who may be irresponsible (to say the least) gun owners. Derrick Bird for example flipping when he heard details of his mothers will.

Perhaps there is way of vetting the systems better to prevent this. Can somone who is familiar with gun laws confirm if a citizen has mental problems/ instability, is there any method of taking their gun back off them?

CJhaughey · 03-01-2011 1:25pm

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Perhaps there is way of vetting the systems better to prevent this. Can somone who is familiar with gun laws confirm if a citizen has mental problems/ instability, is there any method of taking their gun back off them?

Yes the gardai can and do take guns off people for this kind of thing.
Assaults and violent acts will likely merit the same response.
You cannot legislate for lunatics. Its impossible.
There was a chap drove into a crowd in his car recently, killing a few and injuring more. How do you legislate for that?

Dr Strange · 03-01-2011 1:33pm

This has gone way beyond the original question here. Maybe jonniebgood1's question regarding legislation would be better suited for the shooting forum? I seem to remember that something similar was discussed there before.

Cardinal Richelieu · 22-01-2012 5:00pm

Anyone looking for one should contact the South Korean miltary!:D

Strategypage

M1 Carbine Banned In America

January 22, 2012: After over two years of negotiations, South Korea has finally received permission to export antique (over 50 years old) American military rifles back to the United States. South Korea has been given permission to sell 87,310 M1 Garand rifles to American collectors. The U.S. still refuses to allow South Korea to export 770,160 M1 Carbines to collectors in the United States. That's because the M1s can only hold eight .30 caliber (7.62mm) bullets while the carbines use a magazine (holding up to 30 rounds). The M1 Carbine can also be easily modified to fire automatically. While not outlawed in the United States, M1 Carbine imports are usually banned.
All this export effort began three years ago. As South Korea upgraded its armed forces over the last two decades, it has had to dispose of a lot of old equipment. But then it discovered that it had put into storage many World War II era rifles it had received from the United States during the 1950s. Some of these M-1 Garand rifles (the first semiautomatic rifle to enter wide service in any army) and M-1 Carbines (which fire a pistol class 7.62mm round) had only been used occasionally by reservists, and even these troops have since been armed with more modern weapons.

In the normal course of events, these old rifles would be melted down. Fortunately, someone in the South Korean Defense Ministry realized that M-1s sell for over a thousand dollars each on the collectors market. So those 87,000 M-1 were worth up to $100 million (or half that, if they are all dropped on the market at once). The M1 Carbines, which used to be sold cheap, have recently been going for nearly as much as the Garands. For once, the South Koreans will be able to sell a used weapon at a huge profit (since they received them for free, and have only had to pay for storage and maintenance since then).

Efforts continue to find export markets for the M1 Carbines. South Korea was the largest foreign user of the M1 Carbine, receiving 15.3 percent of the 6.5 million produced.

tac foley · 22-01-2012 10:19pm

killerking wrote: »

This is a clip of the weapon in action - as long as the operator presses the trigger the gas operated mechanism of the weapon will cycle

Sir - that and the comment about killing politicians I frankly find astounding.

The M1 Garand does NOT fire as long as the operator hold the trigger down. It is NOT a full-automatic firearm.

It requires a squeeze and release of the trigger for every shot to function - it is a SEMI-automatic firearm.

The rest of your ill-informed drivel I'll ignore.

tac

tac foley · 22-01-2012 11:01pm

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

god i only wanted a list of the guns i could possibly own and its developed into such a stupid argument. guns can be for sport, just like archery is.

Dear Mr Ardennes - apologies for the late answer, but I've only just found this thread. In the event that you didn't get any of the messages from my pals in the VCRAI, here is a list of ALL the UNRESTRICTED former military rifles and carbines that are currently legal in the Republic of Ireland -

1. EVERY model of .303 British Lee-Enfield ever made - to include the Lee-Metford, the SMLE, the N04, and 5.

2. EVERY model of military Mauser ever made with a calibre less than 8mm [more correctly 7.92x57] - to include Sweden, Argentina, Siam, Persia, Mexico, Chile, Brazil, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador, Guatemala and a few more I can't think of right now.

3. The Canadian .280 and .303 Ross.

4. The US Krag in 30-40 Krag.

5. The US Navy Lee in 6mm Lee.

6. Every model of straight-pull Mannlicher-Schoenauer ever made - 6.5x54, 6.5x54R,

7. Every model of Swiss Schmidt-Rubin from the model 1889 on, in 7.5x55 Swiss, and

8. Every version of the revised Furrer-action K31, also in 7.5x55 Swiss.

9. Every model of Japanese service rifle ever made - 6.5 and 7mm Arisaka.

10. Every model of 7.62x54R Mosin-Nagant rifle and carbine ever made, by every nation that made or used them - from Tzarist Russia to the end of WW2, Russia and Finland and all the Warsaw Pact nations, too.

11. Every French Lebel in 7.5 Lebel, and MAS in the same calibre.

12. Every model of Mannlicher/Carcano in 7.5 and 6.35mm.

13. US Springfield rifle in 30-06 Srpingfield - all versions, Army and USMC.

I'm sure to have overlooked a few, but then I'm getting old and it's way past my bedtime.

However, here is the list of RESTRICTED firearms that are judged to be classic and vintage enuff to use in the VCRAI -

All single-shot or repetition shot firearms with a calibre of 7.92mm or greater, including ALL German armed forces military issue rifles and carbines.

That's the Mausers taken care of. AFAIK, no other military/classic firearm of the kind that is PRESENTLY permitted in the RoI has a greater calibre - the gigantic pre-smokeless powder world has yet to open out to you.

So, what are we left with?

1. The M1 Garand 30-06, semi-auto.

2. The M1 carbine .30 cal., semi-auto.

3. The Russian SKS in 7.62x39 and its variants - all semi-auto.

4. The Swedish Ljungmann in 6.5x55 SE, semi-auto.

5. The M1A in 7.62x51 by Beretta of Italy, semi-auto.

No doubt there are a few more, but I'm certain you get the picture. More modern semi-auto firearms ARE permitted, but they are rare. I'm concentrating on those that are readily available - more or less - in the RoI.

If you want to know any more about this kind of shooting, get in touch with one of us in the VCRAI - we are more than happy to bend your ear all day long about our guns and why they are so great [and cheap].

tac
www.vcrai.com

Ardennes1944 · 22-02-2012 5:31pm

only just saw your great,informative reply sir i thank you! certainly clears up things for me

M1 Garand?

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