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Taxi Strike

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    #92
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    As I have often said, and as often been ignored, I want no protection other than removing the anomaly of PAYE workers being allowed to work 48 hours in a PAYE job and then being allowed to cross over to a self employed status and do a further 40 hours or however much they like in the taxi industry, infact I'll expand that further and say in any industry.
    And if that directive had the opposite effect you would also be fighting for it yes??:rolleyes:
    You are saying what you want all the time. But you are not answering the question . Why should taxi drivers be protected from competition.
    Don't say its not about stopping part time taxi drivers. No one belives that.
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I promote a site, I sometimes administer on that site, I sometimes moderate and ban people from that site, I don't censor people too harshly for having views that are diametricly opposed to me, the relevence to my arguments being what exactly?

    The relevance being you are saying you don't condone these things but you administer on a site that is allowing & promoting such activities.


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    #93
    Gannicus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Gannicus


    I have no sympathy for them at all. their cute little ba***rds taxi drivers. Look at how their going on strike on the 18th. how convenient the day after paddy's day. load of oppurtunistic a**eholes. I have often had taxi's give the b***ox excuse "not going over the northside" or the "€15 fare's not worth the journey". now their moaning about the numbers of taxi's on the road. I love that, if anything there should be more of them. make them compete and get rid of the €4.10 min hailing fee sh*te make them really work like they should be. no more of this cushy early retirement i'll get a taxi plate and do a few hours if I'm not going out the weekend sh*te they're accustomed to now. only reason they should not be allowed drive a taxi is if their convicted felons.


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    #94
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    If that's accurate, and I remember the details only very vaguely myself, what's the point of calling for even a temporary cap on licenses? ... it's obviously something that can't be legally re-instated anyway.
    Anyone like to take this one?


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    #95
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Why should someone not be allowed do that ?
    Remind me again why all HGV's have to carry Tachometers ?

    "I shall not drive a PSV for more than 11 hours in any one day in any period of 3 consecutive days."

    This should be ammended to include other types of employment too, it should say "I shall not work for more than 11 hours..."


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    #96
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    As to the figures supplied about criminals having licenses, refer to this and act accordingly, the relevent section is this
    The only remaining areas to be commenced are those relating to section 36, which provides for an automatic disqualification from holding a licence on conviction of certain specified serious criminal offences. The Minister for Transport is consulting with the Commission, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; the Courts Service, An Garda Síochána and industry representatives with a view to commencing this section.

    Section 36 - 2003 and you are saying it's remaining to be commenced :eek:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0025/sec0036.html
    36.—(1) Where a person being the applicant for or the holder of a licence is convicted of any of the following offences, namely—

    (a) murder,

    (b) manslaughter,

    (c) an offence—
    (i) under the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997
    ...

    (d) a sexual offence (within the meaning of section 3 of the Sex Offenders Act 2001 ),

    (e) a drug trafficking offence (within the meaning of section 3 of the Criminal Justice Act 1994 ),

    (f) an offence relating to money laundering under Part IV of the Criminal Justice Act 1994 ,

    (g) an offence under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 ,

    (h) an offence under section 2 of the Illegal Immigrants (Trafficking) Act 2000 , or

    (i) an offence under the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Acts 1925 to 1990,


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    #97
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Remind me again why all HGV's have to carry Tachometers ?

    "I shall not drive a PSV for more than 11 hours in any one day in any period of 3 consecutive days."

    This should be ammended to include other types of employment too, it should say "I shall not work for more than 11 hours..."


    Ok this is a country where doctors do regularly work 60 hour shifts you realise with potentially zero sleep.

    But thats not the issue. Fair enough the safety issue with relation to driving jobs is fair enough I see that. But why can't someone work 8 horus in their paye job and 3 hours taxiing ?
    But spookie was objecting to anyone with paye job being self employed in any industry. I want to know what the problem is ?
    As long as some one is obeying the rules of each job regards rest periods etc, then why should they not have 2, 3 or even 4 jobs if they want ?


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    #98
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    opinion guy wrote: »
    As long as some one is obeying the rules of each job regards rest periods etc, then why should they not have 2, 3 or even 4 jobs if they want ?
    I agree . Even if there was a desire to change this, I would imagine there would be a lot of rights issues to over come.


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    #99
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    I have very little sympathy for the majority of people striking these days.

    Taxi drivers are a bunch of conceited twats.
    They need to get some perspective.


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    #100
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    opinion guy wrote: »
    As long as some one is obeying the rules of each job regards rest periods etc, then why should they not have 2, 3 or even 4 jobs if they want ?
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/si/0817.html

    If a person sitting at a desk isn't allowed work more than an average of 48 hours a week or more than 13 hours in a day then why should someone sitting at the wheel be allowed to ?


    Don't get me started on the the working time directive and Junior Doctors , I can remember when they got paid LESS when they did overtime :mad:


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    #101
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/si/0817.html

    If a person sitting at a desk isn't allowed work more than an average of 48 hours a week or more than 13 hours in a day then why should someone sitting at the wheel be allowed to ?

    But that law doesn't say they can't go home and work for themselves now does it ? Its there to protect workers from being abused by their employers surely ? People are entitled to run their own business if they so chose. Maybe its and internet shop, maybe its golf pro on a saturday, maybe its taxiing. As long as they aren't breaking the rest rules whats the problem ?
    Don't get me started on the the working time directive and Junior Doctors , I can remember when they got paid LESS when they did overtime :mad:

    Many aren't getting paid all of their overtime currently effectively meaning part of the work they are doing for free


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    #102
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,908 ✭✭✭GTE


    I may not be liked for this opinion, although poll results so far say I may be but the way I see it is:

    There is a core base of drivers who have been doing it for most of their lives or have come into the professional genuinely and offer a fantastic quality of work.

    However, this core base of drivers in recent years has been saturated and over saturated to bursting point. This has happened to such a degree that it is now mathematically impossible for this core of drivers (not to mention the newer drivers) to make the money they need and the money to live that they deserve for the service they provide and now we have high prices almost across the board.

    I think that there were complaints about this a few years ago? Im almost positive there was an issue about how many taxis out there now.

    So the recent measures that have been brought in to cut down on this over saturation, namely higher quality cars in terms of age (which is something Im still iffy about) and also by raising prices of registering (Im not too familiar with this) are now being attacked by taxi drivers, the majority of anyway.

    The way I see it is that strict rules need to be implemented that are going to make some drivers have to hand in their license due to not meeting some sort of criteria. Raising the prices of licences now I think is too early, the money is being spread too thin to have that work for the core drivers.
    I have no sympathy for the drivers who got into the job because they thought they could charge high and make a quick Euro. I do have sympathy for the drivers who had a family sustaining business before the over saturation got as bad as it is.

    I dont agree that the taxi drivers should be giving out like they have been recently as a whole about the lack of money thats able to be made when what I can assume is the majority of these people are the problem with the taxi service in the first place.

    Overall I think what Im saying above is as logical and unbiased as I can make it. The following is some personal crap that annoys the hell out of me.
    I have no sympathy for the taxi drivers around Ballyfermot college who take up about 20 spaces on average that could be used by students and shoppers (tesco nextdoor). They wait around in a little gang for most of the day and I would be more then happy to have them piss off somewhere else. The college is small and the capacity is at its limits with many many many students commuting in from as far as Mullingar and when they strike and take the same number or spaces if not more again?


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    #103
    Green Gooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭Green Gooner


    logonmar wrote: »
    According to RTE taxis are threatening to go on strike as from 18th March.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0310/taxi.html

    Am I missing something as taxi groupings & unions continually go on, and on, about limiting the number of taxi licences.
    There is no limit on most other occupations be it carpenters, bus drivers, plumbers, shop owners, restaurants, couriers or whatever. For the most part, it is simply a case of letting supply & demand dictate the market place for these other occupations.
    What makes taxis so special?

    Yes its tough for them, at the moment, but in my view a person that becomes unemployed in 2010 has every bit as much of a right to try their hand at earning a living by driving a taxi as someone that became unemployed in 2009, 2008 etc.
    We are not limiting building occupations just because we currently have far more people with trades etc. than are currently needed.

    Its only a few years since taxis treated the public like dirt and it was impossible to find a taxi on a weekend night.
    Now Ireland is like every other country and one can get a taxi when one needs one and that is the way it should be.

    In my view there should be no limit on numbers and just like everything else let supply & demand dictate rather than legislation.
    Therefore I simply would let them go on strike and not give in to their bully boy tactics.

    Am I missing something or do others agree?

    Good pont! In the local papers in my area's taxi's said they are forced to work long hours. Fair enough but I heard they shouldnt because of insurance reason's working too long etc...anyone elese hear that?


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    #104
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    taxi driving scum

    give it to em good Regulator !


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    #105
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    koolkid wrote: »
    And if that directive had the opposite effect you would also be fighting for it yes??:rolleyes:
    You are saying what you want all the time. But you are not answering the question . Why should taxi drivers be protected from competition.
    Don't say its not about stopping part time taxi drivers. No one belives that.


    The relevance being you are saying you don't condone these things but you administer on a site that is allowing & promoting such activities.


    by the opposite effect, do you mean a minimum working week or that self employed wouldn't be allowed to do PAYE?

    Yet again, I am not asking for protection, if someone wants to give up a PAYE job to become a taxi driver then fine, I don't see that as protection.

    I'm an advocate for (fairly) free speech, why would I deny anyone a chance for speaking for or against activities, If you botherered to read, most of the threads usualy have a number of proponants for and against the thread, some threads get overwhelming support, some of them get shot to pieces but at the end of it. it's just peoples opinions whether you agree with them or not


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    #106
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Section 36 - 2003 and you are saying it's remaining to be commenced :eek:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0025/sec0036.html


    correct it's still not in force


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    #107
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Ok this is a country where doctors do regularly work 60 hour shifts you realise with potentially zero sleep.

    But thats not the issue. Fair enough the safety issue with relation to driving jobs is fair enough I see that. But why can't someone work 8 horus in their paye job and 3 hours taxiing ?
    But spookie was objecting to anyone with paye job being self employed in any industry. I want to know what the problem is ?
    As long as some one is obeying the rules of each job regards rest periods etc, then why should they not have 2, 3 or even 4 jobs if they want ?


    Because the majority ( if not all ) of PAYE who taxi don't work 3 hours after an 8 hour shift, they work 7-12 hours after an 8 hour shift, then another shift on the Saturday and then some even do a few hours on a Sunday.

    I am specifically against PAYE driving taxis but to be fair if it was to be implemented then it would I imagine have to cover all self employed work.

    As regards the doctors, if they are working regularly in excess of 60 hours, they are in contravention of S.I 494 of 2004, however, if they are classified as doctors in training, the rules are somewhat different, but again if they are regularly working in excess of 60 hours per week they would still be in contravention of the same act


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    #108
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/si/0817.html

    If a person sitting at a desk isn't allowed work more than an average of 48 hours a week or more than 13 hours in a day then why should someone sitting at the wheel be allowed to ?


    Don't get me started on the the working time directive and Junior Doctors , I can remember when they got paid LESS when they did overtime :mad:

    Legaly a taxi driver isn't allowed to work 13 hours, the maximum permissable under current legislation is an 11 hour shift, and only 3 such shifts in a 3 day period, why then should someone be allowed to work 8 hours behind a desk and then be "legaly" allowed to work a further 11 hours behind the wheel of a taxi if they so desired?


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    #109
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    by the opposite effect, do you mean a minimum working week or that self employed wouldn't be allowed to do PAYE?
    I mean if there was an anomoly which stopped PAYE workers working part time but allowed the self employed to work all they want, would you be so eager to correct that? I don't think so.
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Yet again, I am not asking for protection, if someone wants to give up a PAYE job to become a taxi driver then fine, I don't see that as protection.
    So you are just campaigning for everyones rights yes?
    See above.
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    If you botherered to read, most of the threads .
    Very presumtious of you, I have read them all
    Its very clear to me from reading thread here & on other forums that the simple fact is taxi drivers dont want part time workers in the industry.
    You say you are all for peoples rights. These people have the right to work part time if they want to. What about thier rights.
    It must me pure coincidence that the rights you campaign for will give you unfair protection against competition.
    A question for you. Its hypotetical, but please just answer yes or no if you can.
    If all the part timer agreed to leave thier PAYE jobs & only work as Taxi Drivers would you be sadisfied with that?
    No Part timers & No PAYE Workers in the industry?
    Does that meet your requirements?


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    #110
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Because the majority ( if not all ) of PAYE who taxi don't work 3 hours after an 8 hour shift, they work 7-12 hours after an 8 hour shift, then another shift on the Saturday and then some even do a few hours on a Sunday.

    But this is a regulatory issue. The answer is not to ban these people, for fundamental that would breach their rights, the answer is to properly regulate how people in this category work.
    As regards the doctors, if they are working regularly in excess of 60 hours, they are in contravention of S.I 494 of 2004, however, if they are classified as doctors in training, the rules are somewhat different, but again if they are regularly working in excess of 60 hours per week they would still be in contravention of the same act

    Well actually its their employers who are in breach. And yes they have been in breach since that act came in - but the individual doctors do not have a choice - they can't simply walk out when they reach the limit if their employer has not hired in someone to take over.


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    #111
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    koolkid wrote: »
    snipped
    A question for you. Its hypotetical, but please just answer yes or no if you can.
    If all the part timer agreed to leave thier PAYE jobs & only work as Taxi Drivers would you be sadisfied with that?
    No Part timers & No PAYE Workers in the industry?
    Does that meet your requirements?

    Yes


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    #112
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    koolkid wrote: »
    I mean if there was an anomoly which stopped PAYE workers working part time but allowed the self employed to work all they want, would you be so eager to correct that? I don't think so.

    So you are just campaigning for everyones rights yes?
    See above.

    Very presumtious of you, I have read them all
    Its very clear to me from reading thread here & on other forums that the simple fact is taxi drivers dont want part time workers in the industry.
    You say you are all for peoples rights. These people have the right to work part time if they want to. What about thier rights.
    It must me pure coincidence that the rights you campaign for will give you unfair protection against competition.
    A question for you. Its hypotetical, but please just answer yes or no if you can.
    If all the part timer agreed to leave thier PAYE jobs & only work as Taxi Drivers would you be sadisfied with that?
    No Part timers & No PAYE Workers in the industry?
    Does that meet your requirements?

    Point 1 If it was deemed by someone that all self employed people were to be limited by the EUWTD I would have no problem with that

    Point 2 If it was deemed that taxi drivers and other drivers of vehicles being used for reward/hire were obliged to work a maximum number of hours I would have no problem with that

    Point 3 I'm not campaigning for everyones rights but whatever results any such campaign acheived I would be prepared to have them accepted across the board

    Now straight yes or no question for you, you'll note I did give you a straight yes/no answer to your question in a seperate repy.

    Is it in the publics interest to be transported by a driver who hasn't worked excessive hours?


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    #113
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    opinion guy wrote: »
    But this is a regulatory issue. The answer is not to ban these people, for fundamental that would breach their rights, the answer is to properly regulate how people in this category work.



    Well actually its their employers who are in breach. And yes they have been in breach since that act came in - but the individual doctors do not have a choice - they can't simply walk out when they reach the limit if their employer has not hired in someone to take over.

    There is a requisite for the CTR to license taxi drivers, the CTR is enpowered to attach whatever "restrictions" that may be deemed as fit for purpose in serving the interests of the travelling public ( You ) and stakeholders ( Me ), if it was seen to be in the interests of either ( preferably both ) then any such provision could be enacted.

    Now the question is, would either parties interests be better served by restricting the license conditions to prevent people from driving a taxi after already completing a set number of hours?


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    #114
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    So then you are happy to have more taxis on the road. But on condition you can,t do anything else as well.That would be of no benefit to anyone. Sounds very petty to me.


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    #115
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    koolkid wrote: »
    So then you are happy to have more taxis on the road. But on condition you can,t do anything else as well.That would be of no be benefit to anyone. Sounds very petty to me.


    Why would that be, do you not think that genuine market forces would then be in play and it would find it's own levell


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    #116
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Why would that be, do you not think that genuine market forces would then be in play and it would find it's own levell
    Do you?... all of a sudden?
    You need to stop contrdicting yourself.
    Everytime that has been suggested you said the Taxi Industry is different.
    But as usual as soon as something is in your favour its different.
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


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    #117
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    koolkid wrote: »
    Do you?... all of a sudden?
    You need to stop contrdicting yourself.
    Everytime that has been suggested you said the Taxi Industry is different.
    But as usual as soon as something is in your favour its different.
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

    Wrong, note the emphasis on GENUINE

    BTW I notice how you simply miis out/gloss over my requests for simple yes/no answers


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    #118
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Wrong, note the emphasis on GENUINE

    BTW I notice how you simply miis out/gloss over my requests for simple yes/no answers

    Ok I'll bite :rolleyes:

    Define genuine


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    #119
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    BTW I notice how you simply miis out/gloss over my requests for simple yes/no answers
    Not sure what miis out means...
    But where have I simply given yes/ no answers.
    As for selecting what to reply to, your the expert there.


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    #120
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    snipped

    Now straight yes or no question for you, you'll note I did give you a straight yes/no answer to your question in a seperate repy.

    Is it in the publics interest to be transported by a driver who hasn't worked excessive hours?

    I'll repeat the question for you KK


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    #121
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    koolkid wrote: »
    Not sure what miis out means...
    But where have I simply given yes/ no answers.
    As for selecting what to reply to, your the expert there.


    Typo for miss, you realy are getting desperate now, as to yes/no you've never answered any staright yes/no answers put to you, where as I have, would seem to indicate you are unsure of your comvictions or grounds for argument.

    Given that I'm only one person I would think some leeway would be applicable as I do sometimes miss out pn sentient points from posters, but not deliberately, I would never be as crass as that, if anyone feels I have missed their post feel free to re ask any pertinent question again


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