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List of railway abandonment orders?

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  • 31-07-2014 3:55pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭


    A search of Irish Statute book only brings up around 7 railway abandonment orders with the latest being from 1960
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ResultsTitle.html?q=railway+abandonment&search_type=all&button=Search

    This can't be correct - or is it? Surely there are many more railways that have been formally abandoned, if so is there a list anywhere?

    One example that comes to mind immediately is the former Cavan to Inny Junction line near Killydoon - tracks were lifted decades ago and the former trackbed has recently had a section of the realigned N55 built on it. No mention of it in the Statute Book.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    simply "abandoning" railway lines should never have been allowed, they should have had to sell it giving state agencies first refusal, or relinquish it to an agency of the state such as councils.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    This post has been deleted.

    I think that it's a matter of knowing where to look - all the closed lines have had abandonment notices as far as I know. The Shillelagh branch was closed in stages - Aughrim/Shillelagh (1944) and the Aughrim/Woodenbridge Jn. section survived for goods traffic until 1952.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Thanks for the responses but they don't really clarify things
    eg
    Have most disused rail lines been formally abandoned or not?
    If they are formally abandoned where are the abandonment orders and why are only some on Irishstatutebook.ie?
    Can CIE sell a disused trackbed in the absence of an abandonment order?


    I have done some more googling and came across a greenway feasibility study on the West Clare railway which was closed in 1961. I have no special interest in this railway but it is one for which there is plenty of info online, Jackie Whelan's heritage railway is running on a short stretch and greenway funding has recently been made available. No abandonment order on irishstatutebook. From the greenway study:
    After its closure the railway line was sold off during the 1960’s to adjoining landowners
    for a nominal sum. Search of the records at the railway offices reveal that the land was
    distributed into approximately 336 different holdings, varying in length size of between
    20 metres and 800 metres with the average line-length of holding between 100-150
    metres. Less than 10% of the line is now owned by C.I.E.s successor Iarnrod Eireann.

    There is also a book on this railway by Eddie Lenihan which describes what has been done on the ground since closure
    books.google.ie/books?id=Sm8TTHRwSCMC&printsec=frontcover


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i'd imagine in CIE'S case abandonment orders were for lines where the land had no chance of selling? others like the WCR were sold off which CIE can do if they want because it seems from the various acts [which i've only been able to read bits of] that the land belongs to them and not the people of ireland

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Yes, most if not all closed lines have been formally abandoned - it's just a matter of finding out where that's recorded. That said, CIE/IE own bits of former trackbeds and buildings all over the place. The Cavan & Leitrim is a case in point where the land was virtually worthless so the company still own bits of it.

    In Clifden, Co.Galway the station - which was never operated by CIE - was in their ownership right into the 1990s. The GSR closed and lifted the railway in the 1930s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,624 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I don't think the youghal line was abandoned officially, although its not as if you could get anything along it even if I hadn't been lifted in parts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    I don't think the youghal line was abandoned officially, although its not as if you could get anything along it even if I hadn't been lifted in parts.

    The Youghal line is classified as an engineers siding as far as I can remember. It's listed as such in the WTT - or was the last time that I looked at one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    Thanks for the responses but they don't really clarify things
    eg
    Have most disused rail lines been formally abandoned or not?
    If they are formally abandoned where are the abandonment orders and why are only some on Irishstatutebook.ie?
    Can CIE sell a disused trackbed in the absence of an abandonment order?

    Some lines which were closed were subject to "Exemption Orders" under the 1950 Transport Act. Under this act, Section 55 allowed CIE to cease running services on lines which were basket cases but which they had to run. Others were abandoned under The Abandonment of Railways Act, 1850; this old law was less strict about how things were done. A few had their abandonment stipulations in their formation act which means no visit to Leinster House are required :)

    There is a chance as that the relevant Order has not yet been uploaded to the Dail website so no mention of same exists online.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    1850? most railways weren't even built then. Is that a typo?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    wow! that's very defeatist!


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Some lines which were closed were subject to "Exemption Orders" under the 1950 Transport Act. Under this act, Section 55 allowed CIE to cease running services on lines which were basket cases but which they had to run.

    any examples?
    Others were abandoned under The Abandonment of Railways Act, 1850; this old law was less strict about how things were done. A few had their abandonment stipulations in their formation act which means no visit to Leinster House are required

    would these have been lines heading across the border? or just random lines?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    any examples?



    would these have been lines heading across the border? or just random lines?

    http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/IRFN/IRFN0104.pdf has a list of several lines which were closed under Exemption Order's. If you have the time to trawl through their excellent archive of old railway news articles or either the IRRS library or the NLI on Kildare you may find reference to other abandonment orders but be warned, it will take you a lot of time.

    The majority of the cross border lines closed were the GNR lines. The GNR was co-owned by CIE and the UTA from 1952 until 1958. The closure of these lines came when the Ulster Transport Authority, under instruction from the NI Government, informed Ireland that it was withdrawing from the cross border arrangement and formally abandoning most of these lines within the 6 counties. This left CIE with little option but to close the landlocked sections within the State at the same time; the last private line in the Sligo, Leitrim and Northern Counties line were also forced to close as a result of this. A few sections on this side of the border (Belturbet for one) and the CDR remained open till 1959, it's ownership being a more complex situation between CIE, the UTA and British Rail; alternative road improvements were also required in the area. Somewhat OT I know but it's interesting in it's own way

    Lastly, I understand that the Portumna line may have been abandoned via the 1850 act but I happily remain open to correction on this. Certainly several projects were abandoned pre construction with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭haulier


    ABANDONED :

    HARCOURT STREET STN: 19/03/1959 [ SOLD 23/03/1959]

    HARCOURT ST. - GRAND CANAL: 29/10/1959

    GRAND CANAL - DUNDRUM : 27/09/1962

    DUNDRUM - SHANGANAGH JNC: 10/10/1961


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    haulier wrote: »
    ABANDONED :

    HARCOURT STREET STN: 19/03/1959 [ SOLD 23/03/1959]

    HARCOURT ST. - GRAND CANAL: 29/10/1959

    GRAND CANAL - DUNDRUM : 27/09/1962

    DUNDRUM - SHANGANAGH JNC: 10/10/1961

    That's not what the OP is getting at though - he wants to know why he can't find evidence of official abandonment orders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    haulier wrote: »
    ABANDONED :

    HARCOURT STREET STN: 19/03/1959 [ SOLD 23/03/1959]

    HARCOURT ST. - GRAND CANAL: 29/10/1959

    GRAND CANAL - DUNDRUM : 27/09/1962

    DUNDRUM - SHANGANAGH JNC: 10/10/1961
    thanks for that, if you find anymore post them here?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    thanks for that, if you find anymore post them here?

    A great deal of that type of information is contained in the "Irish Railfans News" available online here:http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/IRFN/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    A great deal of that type of information is contained in the "Irish Railfans News" available online here:http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/IRFN/
    brilliant

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    This post has been deleted.

    The orders were provided for under the 1950 Transport Act. It set up a Transport Tribunal that CIE could apply to for an order. The order absolved CIE of the legal obligation to run passenger and freight services on lines or services if they were uneconomic and to begin to dispose of the lines and assets accordingly if need be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    The orders were provided for under the 1950 Transport Act. It set up a Transport Tribunal that CIE could apply to for an order. The order absolved CIE of the legal obligation to run passenger and freight services on lines or services if they were uneconomic and to begin to dispose of the lines and assets accordingly if need be.
    so it effectively was the act that allowed the destruction of parts of the peoples railway such as the stealing of the infrastructure

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭haulier


    There was a notice in the IRIS OIFIGUIL last month that I.E. intended to abandon the above line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    so it effectively was the act that allowed the destruction of parts of the peoples railway such as the stealing of the infrastructure

    Not at all and please don't assume it was step one on the road to culling all of our lines.

    At the time, CIE had formally been nationalised with the rather misguided intention of transport becoming very profitable again before being flogged off for a tidy profit. The tribunal was intended to be an independent body who would make calls on services (And buses, lorries and canals, it wasn't limited to railways.) that CIE wanted to close through necessity of economics but were legally obliged to run. If the services were found to be without hope of even wiping it's arse then CIE would be "exempted" from the obligation to run services on the line and the process of abandonment could proceed.

    Of the many lines for which applications for exemption orders were made, some were refused and stayed open before being abandoned years later. A few even had Indian summers and, with the introduction of the C and G glass locomotive classes, managed to stay in traffic for as long as 20 years afterwards; Loughrea, Castleisland, Fenit being good examples of same.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭haulier


    BANTRY PIER - S.I. 48/1950

    STRANOLAR -GLENTIES - S.I. 133/52

    SWILLY - S.I. 240 & 241/53

    D.N. & G - S.I. 397/53

    S.L. & N.C.R. -S.I. 181/58

    C.D.R. - S.I. 9/60

    I think, by virtue of the [1958] amendment to the TRANSPORT ACT 1950 - C.I.E. could close & abandon their own lines without an S.I. having to be issued.


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