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Sub forum for Bus Enthusiasts

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Comments

  • #52
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    devnull wrote: »
    I didn't think it was that bad, apart from the lack of double deckers which only recently has been tackled to some degree.

    Trust me it really is.

    - Buses sitting around for up to 30 minutes on the quays.
    - Full buses leaving people behind at stops
    - Many routes far too infrequent


  • #53
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Irish buses, London buses, British buses, European busses, New York buses, let em all in to the BUS forum!

    This is my current fave, but its not Irish, although it is in a way, seeing as its made up North.

    7382381456_05d28a2fb7.jpg


  • #54
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    CIE wrote: »
    We've yet to find an example of that which is not the result of government distortion between the modes.

    Cork City Centre-Dublin City Centre by train 3hours 30minutes. Costs upwards of €80 and requires a change at Cork Kent and Heuston between train and the Luas/bus

    Aircoach from city centre to city centre is 3hours. The bus is €22 return 17 services per day and serves both City Centres.


    Where is the Government distortion??


  • #55
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    bk wrote: »
    You blame the government, yet they gave Irish Rail everything they asked for.

    That is incorrect; they did not get what they wanted.

    Irish Rail requested a long time ago (40 years ago, to predate to the CIE era) for funds for relaying of Dublin-Cork/Limerick, renewal of the Dublin suburban network, new rolling stock and motive power, signaling and station improvements, etc etc. The response was only to release funding for generally patchwork investment and rarely what was requested to do it was needed to be future proofed. When they did get money, it was rarely adequate to improve what was already there and quite often it literally replaced older equipment or track or rolling stock. Some 40 years later, Irish railways are still not given the required funds to bring line speeds up over 100MPH in spite of the fact that it's needed now more than it ever was.

    In the case of Ballybrophy the line has low speeds as money isn't there to tamp and pack the new track; Waterford-Rosslare got little in the way of new or second hand track. Cravens and Mark 2's only retired a few years ago due to there being no replacement stock till the 22000's arrived. Semaphore and mechanical signaling has still to be phased out on some lines, a mere 80 years after the first electric signals and lights were installed, I need not go on.
    bk wrote: »
    I blame CIE/IR for being to busy playing at being property developers instead of running rail.

    In the main, this property income was actually making up the shortfall in State investment. Around the late 80's and 90's it literally the company afloat and allowed it to improve bit by bit.
    bk wrote: »
    Just chucking more money down the pit that is CIE/IR isn't going to fix anything and will just be more waste of valuable tax payers money.

    Lets fix CIE/IR first and then we can talk about investment in rail.

    What needs fixing is the system under which they operate, not the company itself.


  • #56
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Cork City Centre-Dublin City Centre by train 3hours 30minutes. Costs upwards of €80 and requires a change at Cork Kent and Heuston between train and the Luas/bus

    Aircoach from city centre to city centre is 3 hours. The bus is €22 return 17 services per day and serves both City Centres.

    Where is the Government distortion??
    Res ipsa loquitur. Government controls the infrastructure of both modes and what funding they get. Unless Aircoach (FirstGroup) owns its own dedicated roadways, you can't have a parallel comparison.


  • #57
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    bk wrote: »
    You blame the government, yet they gave Irish Rail everything they asked for
    If that were true, then we'd have an electrified Dublin-Cork line running at 200 km/h at least, the infamous DART Underground with all the trimmings, commuter rail to Navan, and a great deal more of similar service.
    bk wrote: »
    I blame CIE/IR for being to busy playing at being property developers instead of running rail
    What's your basis for that accusation? and what makes them culpable by themselves and not the government they answer to?


  • #58
    starviewadams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    Does this basically boil down to:

    1.We should've invested in rail infrastructure properly when the country was rich.

    2.We didn't,now the intercity railway lines (excluding DART/Commuter lines) a slow,bloated mess that will take tonnes of money to get up to an acceptable standard,money which we don't have anymore.

    3.We have a very good motorway network,so why not stop chucking good money after bad down the railway money pit,and invest properly in intercity bus services instead.

    4.Maybe let a private operator have a go at seeing if they can make a profit at running a slimmed down railway.


  • #59
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    starviewadams wrote: »
    Does this basically boil down to:

    1.We should've invested in rail infrastructure properly when the country was rich.

    2.We didn't,now the intercity railway lines (excluding DART/Commuter lines) a slow,bloated mess that will take tonnes of money to get up to an acceptable standard,money which we don't have anymore.

    3.We have a very good motorway network,so why not stop chucking good money after bad down the railway money pit,and invest properly in intercity bus services instead.

    4.Maybe let a private operator have a go at seeing if they can make a profit at running a slimmed down railway.

    1. Yes.
    2-4 No. We had a pro road and anti rail investment policy in this country for most of the period from 1958 to the millenium. Railways operate with both hands tied behind their backs while the motor industry, road builders and aggregate suppliers partied like it was 1999 for decades. Easier for connected individuals and organisations to go ker-ching with taxpayers money while rail got thrown the odd bone, and that is begrudged by the Ayn Rand reading UCD kids who would worship Tod Andrews as a god, if they believed in anything.

    Anyway, back to the OP. The bus-lovin' folks should have their own forum.


  • #60
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    CIE wrote: »
    If that were true, then we'd have an electrified Dublin-Cork line running at 200 km/h at least, the infamous DART Underground with all the trimmings, commuter rail to Navan, and a great deal more of similar service.What's your basis for that accusation? and what makes them culpable by themselves and not the government they answer to?

    Where are the detailed plans put forth by Irish Rail for electrification and 200km/h running on the Cork line?

    They never existed and have only recently been put forth due to competition from the motorways. Which is way too late. In the UK British Rail saw the danger of motorways coming and moved quickly with their high speed project before it became a major threat.

    For years I watched as the RPA heavily pushed and promoted Metro North through planning and the media while Irish Rail seemed to half heartedly pushed DART Underground. It seemed like IR didn't even really want it.

    Why didn't Irish Rail come up for a grand plan during the tiger years to at least reserve space for a new high speed network besides the new motorway networks like they did in Israel?

    No IR were instead too busy making minor changes, replacing perfectly good Mk 3 trains with diesel railcars that have a max speed of 100km/h, etc.

    Irish Rail are very much to blame for the current situation IMO.


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  • #61
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    bk wrote: »
    Where are the detailed plans put forth by Irish Rail for electrification and 200km/h running on the Cork line?

    They never existed and have only recently been put forth due to competition from the motorways. Which is way too late. In the UK British Rail saw the danger of motorways coming and moved quickly with their high speed project before it became a major threat.

    As long ago as the 1930's, tentative plans and costings were made to electrify most of the network. 100MPH+ running doesn't take any more detailed plans than track replacement, adjustment of the signals and the supply of rolling stock; this is something that numerous cabinets never invested in.
    bk wrote: »
    For years I watched as the RPA heavily pushed and promoted Metro North through planning and the media while Irish Rail seemed to half heartedly pushed DART Underground. It seemed like IR didn't even really want it.

    RPA is a State agency. CIE is a semi state company. Both have the same parent in the Government; they decide the priorities and who gets what money and not the other way around.
    bk wrote: »
    Why didn't Irish Rail come up for a grand plan during the tiger years to at least reserve space for a new high speed network besides the new motorway networks like they did in Israel?

    Many of our motorways climb hills and have curves that trains don't like as a rule. Besides that, who dictates what road or project goes where?
    bk wrote: »
    No IR were instead too busy making minor changes, replacing perfectly good Mk 3 trains with diesel railcars that have a max speed of 100km/h, etc.

    63 sets of the 22000 Railcars have replaced the entire fleet of Park Royal, Mark 2, Craven and Mark 3 stock, all of which were close to or beyond their operational life, not to mention the engines that hauled them. Today, there is far more seats than there was in decades; add in the commuter DMU sets and no arguments about it, capacity is better today than in recent years.


  • #62
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    Anyway, back to the OP. The bus-lovin' folks should have their own forum.

    I wasn't expecting the thread to take this direction...


  • #63
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    But the problem with this stance is that there have been many different governments over the years, made up of different political parties.

    Yet somehow they all ended up having the same anti-rail stance?

    Perhaps it shows how shockingly bad IR are at fighting for and promoting their projects with government departments.

    Or perhaps it was that Irish Rail were seen as a heavily unionised money pit?

    After all that is why Luas and MN were originally taken out of IR hands and the RPA created.


  • #64
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    bk wrote: »

    After all that is why Luas and MN were originally taken out of IR hands and the RPA created.

    Incorrect. The RPA was created as current State Legislation would have obliged CIE (And hence Irish Rail) to run the light railways had it have built it. Rather than tackle this from the legal side, it was far easier for the government to establish the RPA to build and run the lines.


  • #65
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    Here's another thread more suited to a bus enthusiasts' forum.


  • #66
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I'll start the ball rolling on buses with a right auld banger.

    I was on the 3pm bus from Waterford yesterday evening, it arrived in carlow very late at about 4.30pm instead of the scheduled time of 4.10pm, there was a further delay in carlow as the bus was too full and about 8 of the seats were broken, this is ione of the knackered auld junkers that has been thrown out to pasture in Waterford from the Rosslare-Airport route since the introduction of the new coaches but it is far from suitable for any kind of expressway or stage carriage use! we left Carlow at 4.48pm

    At least 8 seats are broken so that they are in the full recline position making travel for anyone using them very uncomfortable and travel in the seats behind unbearable!

    Many of the air vents are broken and stuffed with dirty bits of card and tissues, but this is only a minor issue as the worn out and dirty looking air conditioning units are missing the filters required to clean the recycled air being blown in all directions about this pile of junk!

    Bus SP 15 based in Waterford is literally a wreck! There is no way this should ever have been passed fit for expressway duties until some basic and important maintenance had been done inside but obviously passenger comfort is not high on the agenda of Bus Eireann!

    I cant help thinking what the external maintenance is going to be like judging by the filthy dirty seats and panels inside and all the broken vents lights and seats!

    Travelling on the motorway for most of the journey at 80kmh close behind an articulated lorry also meant those relying on the bus only being half an hour late in Dublin would be sorely disappointed!

    What a disaster!


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  • #67
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I'll start the ball rolling on buses with a right auld banger.

    I was on the 3pm bus from Waterford yesterday evening, it arrived in carlow very late at about 4.30pm instead of the scheduled time of 4.10pm, there was a further delay in carlow as the bus was too full and about 8 of the seats were broken, this is ione of the knackered auld junkers that has been thrown out to pasture in Waterford from the Rosslare-Airport route since the introduction of the new coaches but it is far from suitable for any kind of expressway or stage carriage use! we left Carlow at 4.48pm

    At least 8 seats are broken so that they are in the full recline position making travel for anyone using them very uncomfortable and travel in the seats behind unbearable!

    Many of the air vents are broken and stuffed with dirty bits of card and tissues, but this is only a minor issue as the worn out and dirty looking air conditioning units are missing the filters required to clean the recycled air being blown in all directions about this pile of junk!

    Bus SP 15 based in Waterford is literally a wreck! There is no way this should ever have been passed fit for expressway duties until some basic and important maintenance had been done inside but obviously passenger comfort is not high on the agenda of Bus Eireann!

    I cant help thinking what the external maintenance is going to be like judging by the filthy dirty seats and panels inside and all the broken vents lights and seats!

    Travelling on the motorway for most of the journey at 80kmh close behind an articulated lorry also meant those relying on the bus only being half an hour late in Dublin would be sorely disappointed!

    What a disaster!

    If this bus forum is to be the same set up as the TRS forum, this post would surely be left in the main forum as it's a "consumer" issue rather than a systems/heritage issue.


  • #68
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    At the moment, this forum request is still open, but only at +16 by my count, 3 of the voters were banned or didn't meet the criteria. So if any one wants to through a +1 please do, only two more votes are needed. Then we can see what the story is.

    Forum Request Thread


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I know I gave support for this, but if it ends up anything like what the rail forum has become, then I don't know if I can support it.

    There seems to be too much sniping, bitching and trolling - that's exactly why IRN made it virtually impossible for new members to join.


  • #70
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    That's why I think it needs strong and independent moderators.

    I just glanced at the Irish Traction Group thread on the Rail subforum.....:eek:


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dfx- wrote: »
    That's why I think it needs strong and independent moderators.

    I just glanced at the Irish Traction Group thread on the Rail subforum.....:eek:

    I posted in Feedback about it, hopefully we can nip this in the bud. I'd happily volunteer to moderate, but it's not up to me. :p


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  • #72
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    dfx- wrote: »
    That's why I think it needs strong and independent moderators.

    I just glanced at the Irish Traction Group thread on the Rail subforum.....:eek:
    I don't see why the anti-rail types are visiting that forum.


  • #73
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I'll start the ball rolling on buses with a right auld banger.

    I was on the 3pm bus from Waterford yesterday evening, it arrived in carlow very late at about 4.30pm instead of the scheduled time of 4.10pm, there was a further delay in carlow as the bus was too full and about 8 of the seats were broken, this is ione of the knackered auld junkers that has been thrown out to pasture in Waterford from the Rosslare-Airport route since the introduction of the new coaches but it is far from suitable for any kind of expressway or stage carriage use! we left Carlow at 4.48pm

    At least 8 seats are broken so that they are in the full recline position making travel for anyone using them very uncomfortable and travel in the seats behind unbearable!

    Many of the air vents are broken and stuffed with dirty bits of card and tissues, but this is only a minor issue as the worn out and dirty looking air conditioning units are missing the filters required to clean the recycled air being blown in all directions about this pile of junk!

    Bus SP 15 based in Waterford is literally a wreck! There is no way this should ever have been passed fit for expressway duties until some basic and important maintenance had been done inside but obviously passenger comfort is not high on the agenda of Bus Eireann!

    I cant help thinking what the external maintenance is going to be like judging by the filthy dirty seats and panels inside and all the broken vents lights and seats!

    Travelling on the motorway for most of the journey at 80kmh close behind an articulated lorry also meant those relying on the bus only being half an hour late in Dublin would be sorely disappointed!

    What a disaster!

    I suggest that you write to the Area Manager expressing your disapproval and looking for at least a partial refund of your fare and telling him that you are going to boycott the BE services and spend your hard earned cash on the privates instead.

    Maybe if enough folk kicked up a fuss and took their money to the competition there would be some change.


  • #74
    seanhalpin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭seanhalpin


    parsi wrote: »
    I suggest that you write to the Area Manager expressing your disapproval and looking for at least a partial refund of your fare and telling him that you are going to boycott the BE services and spend your hard earned cash on the privates instead.

    Maybe if enough folk kicked up a fuss and took their money to the competition there would be some change.

    If BE were a privately owned that might have some effect. But it's not. It's a bearaucratic uniion riddled euro guzzling inefficient basket case. The staff don't give a sh!te about the customer, the company or the service. They are just there to clock in and pick up a cheque.

    So no, it wouldnt work.


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