The future of Free Travel Passes being flagged again

AlekSmart · 03-03-2012 5:04pm #1

This latest article is the second in the past month to specifically mention the DSP Free Travel Scheme.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pensions-free-travel-and-medical-cards-on-imf-hitlist-3038459.html

It's now only a matter of when the Free Travel Scheme is addressed rather than If.

I'd speculate that the revision will accompany the new chipped DSP card and will most likely see the removal of automatic spousal entitlement and the ending of automatic Free-Travel entitlement to Disability Allowance recipients.

However it appears that the DSP will firstly embark upon a verification "census" of current Free-Pass holders,a task which will almost certainly throw up some interesting statistics.

Run_to_da_hills · 03-03-2012 5:08pm

Pensioners will be back marching on the streets again.

charlemont · 03-03-2012 5:09pm

I love free travel.

:cool:

Run_to_da_hills · 03-03-2012 5:13pm

The WRC will be down to about an average of just four passengers per trip. :eek:

foggy_lad · 03-03-2012 5:25pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

This latest article is the second in the past month to specifically mention the DSP Free Travel Scheme.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pensions-free-travel-and-medical-cards-on-imf-hitlist-3038459.html

It's now only a matter of when the Free Travel Scheme is addressed rather than If.

I'd speculate that the revision will accompany the new chipped DSP card and will most likely see the removal of automatic spousal entitlement and the ending of automatic Free-Travel entitlement to Disability Allowance recipients.

However it appears that the DSP will firstly embark upon a verification "census" of current Free-Pass holders,a task which will almost certainly throw up some interesting statistics.

It is far more likely that the tax rates will be standardised and the medical card entitlement and free schemes such as the household benefits package for pensioners will be restored to being means tested.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pensions-free-travel-and-medical-cards-on-imf-hitlist-3038459.html

The Washington-based organisation now wants more means testing to target those who need help, rather than the current system, which does not differentiate between needy and wealthy pensioners.

The Central Statistics Office calculated recently that only 9pc of households where the adults were aged over 55 have had to make cutbacks – such as spending less on groceries, clothing and footwear, health insurance and going out. Meanwhile, almost a third of those between the ages of 35 and 44 have had to make cutbacks.

The information in the article is also wrong and very misleading as it states pensioners are allowed both an electricity allowance and also a natural gas allowance but only one or the other is paid!

And despite recent changes that have impacted on pensioners’ money, they still get 1,800 units of free electricity, which saves around €291 a year.

They also get a natural gas allowance of €48 every two months in the summer and €102 every two months in the winter,

the groutch · 03-03-2012 7:47pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Pensioners will be back marching on the streets again.

let them march wherever they want, they've been riding the gravy train for far too long and have to share the burden.

devnull · 03-03-2012 8:12pm

It needs to be cut back without doubt, I have no problem with it funding people for their daily lives, but being able to travel the whole length of the country is not on. Discounted yes. Free No

Judgement Day · 03-03-2012 9:58pm

the groutch wrote: »

let them march wherever they want, they've been riding the gravy train for far too long and have to share the burden.

Get a life would you. OAPs paid their taxes and are entitled to their free travel/medical cards etc. It's hardly their fault that our rotten politicians have sold us out to the Fourth Reich.

devnull · 03-03-2012 9:59pm

This isn't a politics forum.....

Judgement Day · 03-03-2012 10:05pm

No it's not a Politics forum but how is it anything to do with Commuting & Transport either? Removing free travel is not going to have any beneficial affect on CIE/IE or its services.

foggy_lad · 03-03-2012 10:13pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

No it's not a Politics forum but how is it anything to do with Commuting & Transport either? Removing free travel is not going to have any beneficial affect on CIE/IE or its services.

It will save nothing and just mean that many services are operating with far fewer passengers and all without any subvention, many routes will stop running because of this meaning mass redundancies of normal workers in CIE and its associated transport companies, managers of course will just be moved somewhere else to do nothing at the expense of another department!

devnull · 03-03-2012 10:16pm

But we shouldn't be paying for Mary and Gerry to go from Cork to Dublin every weekend. It's public money which could be better used elsewhere. Of Course Irish Rail are n ot going to like it but this country is bigger than any one public or semi state company.

Judgement Day · 03-03-2012 10:20pm

devnull wrote: »

But we shouldn't be paying for Mary and Gerry to go from Cork to Dublin every weekend. It's public money which could be better used elsewhere. Of Course Irish Rail are n ot going to like it but this country is bigger than any one public or semi state company.

Why?

jd · 03-03-2012 10:47pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see the entitlement to travel on peak time commuter services being revoked.

Morf · 03-03-2012 10:52pm

jd wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised to see the entitlement to travel on peak time commuter services being revoked.

How would a person with a disability be able to get to one of their (possibly many) hospital appointments if this was the case?

jd · 03-03-2012 10:58pm

Morf wrote: »

How would a person with a disability be able to get to one of their (possibly many) hospital appointments if this was the case?

They managed prior to 2006.
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2006/Pages/pr250906.aspx
I presume if they needed to travel at peak time they'd have to pay for it.

foggy_lad · 03-03-2012 11:03pm

devnull wrote: »

But we shouldn't be paying for Mary and Gerry to go from Cork to Dublin every weekend. It's public money which could be better used elsewhere. Of Course Irish Rail are n ot going to like it but this country is bigger than any one public or semi state company.

You want all subvention on all public transport to end? this will mean the end of all public transport as none of the CIE companies can operate without the government handout! thousands more on the dole getting unemployment benefit and mortgage interest relief and community welfare payments and more medical cards more back to school allowances more feul allowances etc etc, it will cost more than it would ever save!

As it stands it costs nothing for Mary and Gerry to head off every weekend as long as they don't take up the seat of a paying passenger which is unlikely as most pensioners tend to travel outside of the rush-hour times and paying passengers are more likely to place their luggage on the seats opposite them blocking all 4 seats at the table they are at and I have also seen similar selfish idiots bringing large pieces of luggage onto buses and place them onto seats beside or behind them.

dowlingm · 04-03-2012 5:17am

Judgement Day wrote: »

Get a life would you. OAPs paid their taxes and are entitled to their free travel/medical cards etc.

No they didn't. They paid taxes yes but when they were paying taxes these entitlements didn't exist (or did not to the same extent like when they extended med cards to all over 70 or when Seamus Brennan extended free travel into peak times) and no trust fund was established to pay for them.

foggy_lad · 04-03-2012 10:48am

dowlingm wrote: »

No they didn't. They paid taxes yes but when they were paying taxes these entitlements didn't exist (or did not to the same extent like when they extended med cards to all over 70 or when Seamus Brennan extended free travel into peak times) and no trust fund was established to pay for them.

Does anyone remember paying 48% income tax as well as mad Prsi rates? Or when your mortgage interest was tipping along at 16-18% and when you would be told by the "community welfare officer" to take your 16year old son or daughter out of school and let them get a job(that wasn't there) to help pay the mortgage, all those people are becoming pensioners now and are not going to be short changed! It is not their fault that no "trust fund" was set up. The piper still has to be paid and with several referenda coming up if the government want Ireland inc to survive the pensioners will have to be looked after!

bmaxi · 04-03-2012 11:19am

Some regular posters on this forum have a hobby horse when it comes to free travel. I can understand the objection to junkies and other ne"er do wells having this entitlement and I agree with the concept of means testing for all benefits but the removal of free travel from those who may have had services removed from their local hospitals and centralised to the Capital is surely unfair. As has been pointed out earlier, the real cost of the free travel scheme is minimal and it's removal would probably only lead to reduced services for the rest.

mikemac1 · 04-03-2012 11:46am

AlekSmart wrote: »

will most likely see the removal of automatic spousal entitlement and the ending of automatic Free-Travel entitlement to Disability Allowance recipients.

Hurray
Fare payers will no longer do everything to avoid the top deck on Dublin Bus 40.
I've never once seen an inspector and their strictest crackdown is a recorded voice message about possible fines.

Dublin Bus may be “Serving the entire community” but they don't give a damn about comfort and safety of those paying fares, you know those who don't have a battered piece of cardboard and instead pay several hundred euro per year for what's called a service

AlekSmart · 04-03-2012 12:19pm

bmaxi wrote: »

Some regular posters on this forum have a hobby horse when it comes to free travel. I can understand the objection to junkies and other ne"er do wells having this entitlement and I agree with the concept of means testing for all benefits but the removal of free travel from those who may have had services removed from their local hospitals and centralised to the Capital is surely unfair. As has been pointed out earlier, the real cost of the free travel scheme is minimal and it's removal would probably only lead to reduced services for the rest.

Perhaps it's myself thats "Hobby Horsing"..?

Perhaps not,but just to clarify the pedigree of the beast from my perspective.

The Free Travel Scheme was,and is,one of the most progressive Social Schemes ever enacted by an Irish Government...anytime,anywhere...I would contend that no other scheme has come close to achieving it's original aims.

What I now see is a simple easily administered and accounted for scheme which has developed like a many headed hydra due to the manner in which it's original ethos has been diluted and spread like margarine on a slice of bread.

As an integral part of our Social Insurance based schemes it's original availability was,off-peak,to Old Age Pensioners (aged 66+) only.

Over the years,and particularly within the past decade,it has been used as some form of communal Asprin,to soothe the pains of many other categories of DSP customer.

All of which is perfectly acceptable IF the accounting is modified to reflect this.

The current situation isn that the Free-Travel Scheme budget has been capped by the DSP at 2010 levels,which is actively preventing new Service Providers from accepting "The Pass".

So the 2010 budget is now providing for the needs of the 2012 DSP customers and that customer base has exploded.

The last figures I came across were in a submission to a Joint Oireachtas Comittee,where a DSP delegation mentioned 600,000 Passes being in circulation.

That figure was for Passes and did not include Spousal or Companion entitlements.

No figures were forthcoming to outline how many passes were returned or nullified each year due to death or cessation of entitlement,because,it appears,such figures are not collated by the DSP.

My great fear is that the ENTIRE Free-Travel scheme will collapse due to mismanagement and unsustainability if the current free-for-all continues.

I strongly believe the DSP needs to get back to basics with Free Travel being substantially restricted to the original OAP and then reassessed for the deserving Disability Allowance recipients.

Few appear to be concerned at the cost of providing a Bus/Train/Tram,Staff,Fuel,Insurance,without a commensurate income to fund at least some of it.

It may not be politically correct or nice to admit,but there really is NO such thing as a free lunch.:(

devnull · 04-03-2012 1:38pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

You want all subvention on all public transport to end? this will mean the end of all public transport as none of the CIE companies can operate without the government handout! thousands more on the dole getting unemployment benefit and mortgage interest relief and community welfare payments and more medical cards more back to school allowances more feul allowances etc etc, it will cost more than it would ever save!

As it stands it costs nothing for Mary and Gerry to head off every weekend

Where did I say I want all subvention on public transport to end? I simply think there should be restrictions on free travel in the country, people traveling on local services, or commuter distance trains for instance should be free travel under the current scheme. However the companion pass, unless they are a carer, should be withdrawn.

However there are many people who are not only abusing the system, but also using the pass to travel all over the country for holiday purposes. Intercity and long distance travel should be subsidized by the state for free travel pass holders, but it should not be free, especially during peak hours.

Besides, it does cost something, for Mary and Gerry to head off every weekend because for every person who travels on the train, the taxpayer intake is used to pay the provider for the service, be that a private operator, Bus Eireann or Irish Rail.

bmaxi · 04-03-2012 1:59pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps it's myself thats "Hobby Horsing"..?

Perhaps not,but just to clarify the pedigree of the beast from my perspective.

The Free Travel Scheme was,and is,one of the most progressive Social Schemes ever enacted by an Irish Government...anytime,anywhere...I would contend that no other scheme has come close to achieving it's original aims.

What I now see is a simple easily administered and accounted for scheme which has developed like a many headed hydra due to the manner in which it's original ethos has been diluted and spread like margarine on a slice of bread.

As an integral part of our Social Insurance based schemes it's original availability was,off-peak,to Old Age Pensioners (aged 66+) only.

Over the years,and particularly within the past decade,it has been used as some form of communal Asprin,to soothe the pains of many other categories of DSP customer.

All of which is perfectly acceptable IF the accounting is modified to reflect this.

The current situation isn that the Free-Travel Scheme budget has been capped by the DSP at 2010 levels,which is actively preventing new Service Providers from accepting "The Pass".

So the 2010 budget is now providing for the needs of the 2012 DSP customers and that customer base has exploded.

The last figures I came across were in a submission to a Joint Oireachtas Comittee,where a DSP delegation mentioned 600,000 Passes being in circulation.

That figure was for Passes and did not include Spousal or Companion entitlements.

No figures were forthcoming to outline how many passes were returned or nullified each year due to death or cessation of entitlement,because,it appears,such figures are not collated by the DSP.

My great fear is that the ENTIRE Free-Travel scheme will collapse due to mismanagement and unsustainability if the current free-for-all continues.

I strongly believe the DSP needs to get back to basics with Free Travel being substantially restricted to the original OAP and then reassessed for the deserving Disability Allowance recipients.

Few appear to be concerned at the cost of providing a Bus/Train/Tram,Staff,Fuel,Insurance,without a commensurate income to fund at least some of it.

It may not be politically correct or nice to admit,but there really is NO such thing as a free lunch.:(

It's not a free lunch, it's being provided by the taxpayer, just as many of the services enjoyed by the current generation were provided by the previous one.
Some posters on this forum have a begrudging attitude towards recipients of free travel and as I already stated I too would remove the facility from those well able to afford it and those who, through their own actions, find themselves with a dependency.
As regards pensioners and those with genuine disabilities, it's not a big deal to provide it.
Trains, buses etc will still cost the same in fuel, tax, insurance etc. regardless as to whether they have free pass or paying customers and the obvious saving would be to cut the service, thereby impacting on all passengers.
IMO, the biggest problem lies with the administration. When I was in Dublin City Services many years ago, there was a free travel facility for veterans of the War of Independence. many of those who availed of this were patently not even born in 1919 and every year the numbers seemed to increase. Nobody ever questioned them, no I.D> was ever required and as far as I know there could still be people travelling on them. It's just another example of the "nothing to do with me" attitude endemic in the public service. If you travel cross border and want to use the free travel there you will see a different attitude and an example of how this should be administered.

TheChrisD · 04-03-2012 2:29pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'd speculate [..] the ending of automatic Free-Travel entitlement to Disability Allowance recipients.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Pensioners will be back marching on the streets again.

Pensioners and me, if that were the case.

dowlingm · 04-03-2012 5:42pm

The needs of those who need to attend distant hospitals can and should be met by travel warrants matched to the number of appointments. If I have an appointment in Dublin twice a month from Athenry, I shouldn't be able to use a pass to go anywhere else in the country the rest of the month if I had the leisure to do so.

As for the 48% tax etc - those taxes were not raised for future needs but for those of the then present where Ireland WAS living beyond its means hard as that is to believe now considering the then standard of living. A boom created by cheap money and multinational seekers of cheap manufacturing should not be construed as some kind of "investment coming good" which justifies huge and as AlekSmart points out increasing levels of social spending.

anotherlostie · 04-03-2012 6:05pm

The revenue on the 79/A will shoot up dramatically after that audit. Never seen so many people not pay for the bus as on that service and while I appreciate there are many reasons why younger people can have passes, there can't be that many in such a small area of the city...

looksee · 04-03-2012 6:20pm

It would be very interesting to see figures for the number of people availing of free travel.

If it shows that extra carriages have to be put on trains to accommodate people with free passes, then I would tend to agree that the situation should be looked at. I also agree that free travel for people who are not specifically getting to work should be at off-peak times.

Otherwise I cannot see what the problem is. The vehicle is going anyway. The vehicle is being manned anyway. There is spare capacity, why not let elderly people travel free? It does not actually cost the government anything in those circumstances.

Kurz · 04-03-2012 6:29pm

Free travel passes for elderly and disabled people? You lot are angry about this? Jesus christ...

coolperson05 · 04-03-2012 7:09pm

It seems that all they need is proper regulation. As a user of the train it does annoy me when I see certain 'groups' with their purple free ticket laughing about all they bought in Forever 21 and how they were going to go out tonight - A generalisation but it happens...

The Student Travelcard is well policed and you have your ID and that's it. So just have the inspectors checking, ask for your DSP card to prove free travel is one of your benefits, and all would be well. I do admit it's not a huge cost in the grand scheme of things, but as was mentioned above, it's a shame that such a good-natured service has been abused by some.

Has the notion of introducing, like the medical cards, a nominal fee for fares? 5euro up to a certain amount?? (I realise that's more applicable to expensive transport rather than city bus services...)

the_syco · 04-03-2012 7:32pm

looksee wrote: »

Otherwise I cannot see what the problem is. The vehicle is going anyway. The vehicle is being manned anyway. There is spare capacity, why not let elderly people travel free? It does not actually cost the government anything in those circumstances.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a "free pass" gets onto the bus, is there a log kept for how many "free pass" people get on, and then is that charged by the provider from the government? If this is so, then yes, it would cost the government.

Kurz wrote: »

Free travel passes for elderly and disabled people? You lot are angry about this? Jesus christ...

No, we're angry at the amount of scumbags who get free passes that take up the seats of paying passengers during peak times.

ArmaniJeanss · 04-03-2012 8:25pm

Kurz wrote: »

Free travel passes for elderly and disabled people? You lot are angry about this? Jesus christ...

Its the definition of 'disabled' which is crucial.
It appears for example that 'heroin dependancy' is considered a qualifying disability for this scheme.

No-one is arguing that the scheme should be withdrawn for say a person in a wheelchair.

Losty Dublin · 04-03-2012 8:27pm

the_syco wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a "free pass" gets onto the bus, is there a log kept for how many "free pass" people get on, and then is that charged by the provider from the government? If this is so, then yes, it would cost the government.

No, we're angry at the amount of scumbags who get free passes that take up the seats of paying passengers during peak times.

A count is kept by the travel company of passengers either by a button on the ticket machine on city buses or via a code at train stations if presented at a ticket box/seller; I'd presume Bus Eireann use a mix of both schemes. On Luas, it's show your pass as needed so they have no accurate head count.

The DSP doesn't pay per journey, a subvention is given to those company's who accept DSP passes in lieu so in effect it's paying for DSP passes as if they are buying annual passes for those entitled to them. In practice, it's CIE companies who receive almost all of the subvention. The amount they cough up for free travel passes per head works out as a fraction of the cost to purchase same annual pass for CIE, Luas and other services within the scheme, where one to place a value on what one gets in a DSP pass.

The argument then becomes a question of whether the subvention paid out is fair compensation given either the amount of passes issued or journey's made under the scheme. If so you leave it be but if not then how do you deal with it. Do you curtail access and entitlement to the scheme as it stands, do you adjust it's operational hours or conditions imposed on passengers, do you increase the subvention paid out to the scheme or even a combination of all three. Given the level of fraud and misuse suspected in the scheme along with decreasing tax intake to pay for it, something surely has to give and give soon.

devnull · 04-03-2012 8:39pm

Kurz wrote: »

Free travel passes for elderly and disabled people? You lot are angry about this? Jesus christ...

No - read peoples responses properly - people are not opposed to the scheme per se, we all agree there needs to be one for the elderly and the disabled, just that the current scheme is not sustainable in it's current form and needs to be modified.

gbob · 04-03-2012 11:34pm

It's about time the free travel scheme was overhauled, the amount of obvious fraud being carried out by passholders is shocking. And I don't just mean the scumbags, completely respectable pensioners that wouldn't even consider stealing a newspaper, claiming son's as spouses, companion pass holders bringing random strangers on their passes, lending of passes to friends and even one regular old woman repeatedly selling her pass on the bus for 20 euro. ENFORCEMENT IS A FARCE !

mikemac1 · 04-03-2012 11:40pm

Pass holders should pay something, even if it's just 50c for their journey

People often don't respect what they get for free

It's might not stop the messing from our poor drug addled citizens getting disability but it won't make it any worse and it's worth a trial

foggy_lad · 04-03-2012 11:42pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Its the definition of 'disabled' which is crucial.
It appears for example that 'heroin dependancy' is considered a qualifying disability for this scheme.

No-one is arguing that the scheme should be withdrawn for say a person in a wheelchair.

Heroin dependency is not a qualifying "condition" but most heroin addicts and alcoholics and other nasty types that cause trouble on the streets and wherever they go have under-lying mental health issues which render them "disabled".

foggy_lad · 04-03-2012 11:47pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Pass holders should pay something, even if it's just 50c for their journey

People often don't respect what they get for free

It's might not stop the messing from our poor drug addled citizens getting disability but it won't make it any worse and it's worth a trial

Proper enforcement of the bye-laws already in place is what is needed instead of punishing legitimate innocent and genuine travel pass holders.

any charge is a joke as we all know the people we want off the buses and trains will not pay and will still be there injecting their heroin down the back of the bus/train and falling asleep on the luas and urinating on the seats!

bmaxi · 04-03-2012 11:47pm

Strangely enough after contributing to this thread earlier, I was travelling on a Bus Eireann service from Gorey. For the first time ever, in my experience, an inspector boarded the bus at Arklow to check tickets. He became suspicious of the young girl seated opposite me who produced a Free Travel Pass and after a short exchange during which she could not reproduce the signature on the pass to his satisfaction, confiscated it. Where are these guys for the rest of the time?

gbob · 04-03-2012 11:50pm

bmaxi wrote: »

Where are these guys for the rest of the time?

Delighted the pass was taken off her, and there are FOUR dedicated revenue inspectors for the entire BE network, yes FOUR !

foggy_lad · 04-03-2012 11:54pm

gbob wrote: »

Delighted the pass was taken off her, and there are FOUR dedicated revenue inspectors for the entire BE network, yes FOUR !

There needs to be at least 20 working two shifts going it alone in rural areas and in pairs nearer urban areas where they might expect more trouble.

gbob · 04-03-2012 11:57pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

There needs to be at least 20 working two shifts going it alone in rural areas and in pairs nearer urban areas where they might expect more trouble.

There was plans to increase the numbers a couple of years back but "Due to the current economic ............... blah blah blah"

mikemac1 · 05-03-2012 12:00am

Give me a commission rate for every fraudalent pass I seize and I'd do it without a salary.
I'm confident I'd make good money

I'll probably get stabbed within three days though

gbob · 05-03-2012 12:03am

mikemac1 wrote: »

Give me a commission rate for every fraudalent pass I seize and I'd do it without a salary

That's almost exactly what I said to the powers that be.

foggy_lad · 05-03-2012 12:13am

So instead of dealing with the problem of all these addicts, drunks, homeless and roma beggars and other troublemakers and saving a fortune people have become so hardened by the current situation they would prefer to see their parents, grandparents and all those we know with disabilities like blindness, amputees, Autism cerebral palsy, down syndrome, epilepsy, HIV, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, spina bifida, traumatic brain injury etc lose a small benefit they have which costs the state very little at the end of the day?

gbob · 05-03-2012 12:23am

foggy_lad wrote: »

So instead of dealing with the problem of all these addicts, drunks, homeless and roma beggars and other troublemakers and saving a fortune people have become so hardened by the current situation they would prefer to see their parents, grandparents and all those we know with disabilities like blindness, amputees, Autism cerebral palsy, down syndrome, epilepsy, HIV, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, spina bifida, traumatic brain injury etc lose a small benefit they have which costs the state very little at the end of the day?

Absolutely not, i'm completely in favour of those that have a genuine need of this service continuing to receive it. The problem as I see it is the widespread level of abuse and therefore loss of revenue for the service providers, which unfortunately has to subsidized by the tax payer.

flutered · 05-03-2012 12:24am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Does anyone remember paying 48% income tax as well as mad Prsi rates? Or when your mortgage interest was tipping along at 16-18% and when you would be told by the "community welfare officer" to take your 16year old son or daughter out of school and let them get a job(that wasn't there) to help pay the mortgage, all those people are becoming pensioners now and are not going to be short changed! It is not their fault that no "trust fund" was set up. The piper still has to be paid and with several referenda coming up if the government want Ireland inc to survive the pensioners will have to be looked after!

i am one of these misfortunates, the more i worked the more i paid, in the end i was working seven day a week to keep afloat, i was luckey that i had the seven days, what really fcuked my head was one of the head honchos arrived down from dublin, we got two hours off and were taken to a pub, we were give two pints each, the honcho told us in order for the factory to keep open we had to vote f.f. at the first advailable chance i left, i still have that bitter taste in my mouth.

foggy_lad · 05-03-2012 12:38am

gbob wrote: »

Absolutely not, i'm completely in favour of those that have a genuine need of this service continuing to receive it. The problem as I see it is the widespread level of abuse and therefore loss of revenue for the service providers, which unfortunately has to subsidized by the tax payer.

I agree that the travel pass needs to be sorted out and soon, but the people who are abusing it and forging passes etc also need to be stopped as they will forge any pass that is provided because there is a lot of money to be made!

The way to do this is to change the rules of the scheme so that a passport or Gardai ID(not driving licence) must be shown with the travel pass at all times and for extra security a thumb print be placed on all new passes issued, then issue all inspectors with fingerprint readers which can scan and compare with the print on your pass. Also the full pps number needs to be used for all tickets on trains and bus Eireann(would take too long on DB).

Obviously all worn or torn or partial passes will be confiscated but the users should be given forms and details of how and where to get a replacement if they are entitled to one. also all age action groups and day centres for the disabled and elderly should be informed and given instruction in how to help their clients apply for a replacement pass if theirs is worn or gets confiscated.

gbob · 05-03-2012 12:46am

foggy_lad wrote: »

The way to do this is to change the rules of the scheme

That is exactly what I'm hoping for !

TheChrisD · 05-03-2012 2:00am

foggy_lad wrote: »

and for extra security a thumb print be placed on all new passes issued, then issue all inspectors with fingerprint readers which can scan and compare with the print on your pass.

That's going a bit far now :pac:

AngryLips · 05-03-2012 9:56am

Changing the terms of the scheme to reduce the cost to the Dept of Social Protection will only hurt the revenue and passenger numbers at the various state transport companies I expect. Each DSP scheme passenger doesn't equate to a fare-paying passenger if a lot of that travel is discretionary. That said, change is needed nonetheless.

The future of Free Travel Passes being flagged again

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