Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Paramilitary punishment shootings and beatings. NI. 1970-present day.

Options
  • 27-10-2014 12:32pm
    #1
    HIB
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭


    This cropped up in a forum in the politics section yesterday and when you put all the IRA/terrorist bashing hysteria aside, I think there's some interesting questions here. I've been doing some googling on it but apart from some statistics on the number of attacks, I cant seem to find much that helps understand what type of 'justice' system prevailed at the time. Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on it.

    It seems that these attacks were usually carried out against alleged joyriders, thieves etc. and that a sort of 'grading' system for offences existed, which dictated the level of punishment deemed appropriate. Does anyone know what sort of form this grading system took? And, in terms of alleged offences, which ones predominate? Was this usually directed against petty criminals, violent criminals, or both. Or could it be the case that the system existed almost solely to ensure the position of paramilitary organisations as the dominant player in organised crime e.g. drug trafficking? Were the IRA/loyalist paramilitaries even involved in drug running in NI during the troubles?

    Also, has anyone ever tried to compare the number of 'incidents' dealt with by paramilitary organisations using punishment attacks, to some sort of relevant 'legitimate law enforcement' statistics or metric e.g. number of joyriding, theft cases brought before the courts in another jurisdiction over a similar time period. I ask because if the number of incidents was significantly larger than might be expected, this could suggest that the punishment attacks were being used to settle old scores?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    HIB wrote: »
    This cropped up in a forum in the politics section yesterday and when you put all the IRA/terrorist bashing hysteria aside, I think there's some interesting questions here. I've been doing some googling on it but apart from some statistics on the number of attacks, I cant seem to find much that helps understand what type of 'justice' system prevailed at the time. Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on it.

    It seems that these attacks were usually carried out against alleged joyriders, thieves etc. and that a sort of 'grading' system for offences existed, which dictated the level of punishment deemed appropriate. Does anyone know what sort of form this grading system took? And, in terms of alleged offences, which ones predominate? Was this usually directed against petty criminals, violent criminals, or both. Or could it be the case that the system existed almost solely to ensure the position of paramilitary organisations as the dominant player in organised crime e.g. drug trafficking? Were the IRA/loyalist paramilitaries even involved in drug running in NI during the troubles?

    Also, has anyone ever tried to compare the number of 'incidents' dealt with by paramilitary organisations using punishment attacks, to some sort of relevant 'legitimate law enforcement' statistics or metric e.g. number of joyriding, theft cases brought before the courts in another jurisdiction over a similar time period. I ask because if the number of incidents was significantly larger than might be expected, this could suggest that the punishment attacks were being used to settle old scores?

    IRA terrorists? If there was no you'd still be living under British rule. Unless of course you want. I suppose all armies could in way be called terrorists because because they kill innocent people.


  • Options
    #3
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    I'd guess that he means PIRA, not IRA.

    tac


  • Options
    #4
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    tac foley wrote: »
    I'd guess that he means PIRA, not IRA.

    tac

    The Old IRA used the same sort of tactics , they just didn't have the same technology as the PIRA.& didn't operate in England. I'd argue the PIRA were more justified in their campaign than the Old IRA even still I'm still proud of them.


  • Options
    #5
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    If the OP is still interested they could have a search for info relating to RAAD who were active as a vigilante group until fairly recently and certain sections might still be, especially in Derry.


  • Options
    #6
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,674 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    To place this in context: a paramilitary organisation seeking to de-legitimising the state and stepping into the authority's place, might I recommend Inside Terrorism by Bruce Hoffman which, AFAIR showed similar examples in other areas.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    riffmongous wrote: »
    If the OP is still interested they could have a search for info relating to RAAD who were active as a vigilante group until fairly recently and certain sections might still be, especially in Derry.

    I remember in the mid 90's the IRA used a cover name for RAAD style attacks called DAAD - Direct Action Against Drugs


  • Options
    #8
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    I remember in the mid 90's the IRA used a cover name for RAAD style attacks called DAAD - Direct Action Against Drugs
    Was that also Derry based can you remember?

    On another note the action taken against the IPLO is usually referred to as a feud, but I wonder if that could also be seen as vigilantism since one of the primary reasons they were taken out, as far as I know, was because of their involvement in drug crime

    Edit: Just did some googling and it seems instead DAAD was Belfast based


  • Options
    #9
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Was that also Derry based can you remember?

    On another note the action taken against the IPLO is usually referred to as a feud, but I wonder if that could also be seen as vigilantism since one of the primary reasons they were taken out, as far as I know, was because of their involvement in drug crime

    Edit: Just did some googling and it seems instead DAAD was Belfast based

    Yes, from what I can remember they were mainly Belfast based. There's some videos on YT about news reports on their attacks.

    There was a lot reasons they moved against the IPLO. The IPLO in the Provos eyes had become a scar on the face of the Republican movement. The IPLO was pretty much openly sectarian & the majority of their kills were against Protestant civilians ( I remember at least 3 times they shot up pubs in Protestant areas), they only killed two members of the security forces. And while they were feuding with the INLA there was also a feud within in the IPLO itself with the self styled "Army Council" against the Belfast Brigade. It was also strategically a good move for the IRA & Sinn Feins peace strategy because when the IPLO was formed they wanted to overtake INLA strongholds around Belfast like the Markets & parts of Divis. Once the IRA wiped the IPLO out the IRA took over these places themselves so there was no rival Republican group who could mess up the peace process. If the IPLO hadn't been taken out they could have done a lot of damage to the peace process. So drugs was one reason they were taken out but imo they were taken out mainly to protect the IRA's peace strategy.

    The IPLO was basically what a British Army document described them Loyalists groups & the other smaller Republican groups - nothing more than a collection of gangsters as opposed to the Provos who were described as a dedicated, resilient & a formidable force. if they wanted the PIRA probably could have wiped out the CIRA & RIRA but the media would have made a big deal of it & in turn it wouldn't have been good for SF's electoral success


Advertisement