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St. Patrick's Guild

  • 27-04-2010 2:59pm
    #1
    Mammyof2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭


    Dear All,

    My husband was adopted from St. Patricks, Temple Hill, in 1975/76, he has just sent a letter to St. Patrick's Guild, Merrion Road, who we believe should have his file, requesting his non-identifying info.

    Any idea how long this should take, and should we follow it up at some stage?

    Any advice would be really appreciated.

    Kind Regards,


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Mammyof2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Mammyof2


    Please??


  • #3
    trixy
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭trixy


    Hi there
    I was also in Patricks Guild in the 70s but had to conctac the adoption board, they made an appointment a few months later to see me. From what I believe and has been written lately it may take upto a year or 2.

    Ring the adoption board today and they will guide you where to go


  • #4
    MaryMagdalene
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭MaryMagdalene


    Hi Mammyof2

    First has he registered with the National Contact Preference Register?

    Then I suggest he looks at the tracing guides on this site - from all I have read here and on other sites it could be years before you even get an appointment to see a social worker.

    I suggest you find out all you can and then assuming you find her write to the adoption board saying you will contact her if they don't.

    In those days Social workers told adoptive parents what they (naturally) wanted to hear and as we (birth/natural mothers) never knew what was written. We are STILL not legally entitled to our files and therefore have no power over what is/was recorded so could/can not correct any discrepancies. Now-a-days I think they are far more honest but in general they are working with false documents.

    Sorry I am a natural mother who has been lucky enough to be reunited but I have first hand knowledge of the lies that can be on files etc as I have a copy of mine and I also know what they verbally told the parents about me!!!!!!

    Good luck in your quest and its great that you support him. It won't be easy for any of you but I hope that it will be sucessful and worthwhile.

    MM


  • #5
    Mammyof2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Mammyof2


    Thank you so much for your response, we were given a letter a few months ago by his adopted mother with some details about his mother in it, it came from the nuns, besides that nothing else.

    He has registered but nothing came of it to be honest.

    We are thinking of looking for his birth cert ourselves,how did you get to meet up with your daughter, congrats by the way.


  • #6
    MaryMagdalene
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭MaryMagdalene


    She came looking for me - we aren't allowed to make contact so I waited and waited and waited and then she finally arrived :D

    I have always kept in contact with the agency so was easy for her to find me and she was aware that I was in contact with them so it was an easier decision for her to make I think as she knew I would be receptive.

    BTW I hope that the 'Good Sheppard' thread doesn't colour any of your future stays in the Dunboyne hotel :).


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  • #7
    Mammyof2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Mammyof2


    Thats wonderful for you both!

    I am so hoping DH's mother wants contact, I am afraid she wont and what it will do to him.


  • #8
    MaryMagdalene
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭MaryMagdalene


    I hope so too but I guess he has to take that chance to get closure one way or another.

    I guess you can only hope - I remember when she was around 20 I found out (about 2 yrs later!) that she had contacted the agency and then never replied again and I got so angry I destroyed the things I had kept of my time back then e.g. my diary of my time there etc

    Haven't confessed that to her yet :eek:


  • #9
    Mammyof2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Mammyof2


    Well forget about all that now its great you have reunited, and its a great story x

    My Dh was brought to see his bm when he was 3 although he cant really remember it, does anybody know was this standard practice? Apparently she was very upset and signed the papers shortly afterwards, he was with his adopted family from 6 months.


  • #10
    CathyMoran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,458 ✭✭✭CathyMoran


    Sorry that I did not get back to you sooner - we have a 26 day old who needed milk so my first attempt at replying was scrapped! I was with my husband when was doing his search a few years ago. My advice is just to be there for him. My husband did not want help with the significant legwork but your husband may be different. There are trace guides at the top of the page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055543715 which may help.


  • #11
    lilyrose
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭lilyrose


    hi, I have been dealing with St. Patricks guild and im sorry to say they are a disaster - i got an appointment quick enough as my birhtmother had been in contact but unfortunatly the social worker i was dealing with has left and I havent heard nothing since apart from a very rude email from sr.Francis.

    I wouldnt hold your breathe


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  • #12
    NGibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭NGibbler


    Hello All :)

    This is very strange i was just talking to saint patricks guild on the phone and went online to look at fourms about tracing!

    Im looking for my birth mom i got all the non identifing information like 2 years ago and im still waiting for contact, but still no luck,

    I wish you all the best in your searches mine seems to have gone down the drain :(


  • #13
    neelyohara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    lilyrose wrote: »
    heard nothing since apart from a very rude email from sr.Francis

    Ah Sr Francis, I haven't heard about her in a long time. She's a formidable force when it comes to extracting information.

    Grudgingly I have to say that in the end she did come through for me (tracing my mothers natural family). She had this incredible roundabout way of tracking somebody down... in so far as dealing with missionaries in Tasmania. Had she some common sense she would have seen (as referenced many times in the file) my Grandfather boarded at Blackrock. When I got the file I gave the archivist in Blackrock a quick call. She couldn't understand why Sr Fancis didn't call their directly, they could have provided her with a wealth of information including contact information. A day later the archivist sent me a lovely package of information on my Grandfather... from photographs of school plays, records of his fees paid (which includes what he had for breakfast, when he had his shoes repaired, etc!). She even put me in contact with people he went to school with.

    When the natural family agreed to release their information she prepared a large file for us. It started with what could be described as a five page 'story' of the adoption. Dates, times, names, etc made up from notes. A timeline of what had happened. This was then followed by a thick file of photocopied letters. I was disappointed to see some letters had black marker through them, when I queried this I was told 'That doesn't concern you dear...'. I believe my great-grandmother (on grandfathers side) became friends with the social worker involved and those blacked out lines may related to that.

    Oh and my mother was 'adopted' in the 40s (predating adoption law), technically she used her mothers name up until the week before she married (at 27) when her name changed to that of her adoptive parents - so we always had her mothers first and last name.

    I guess the point of my rambling is that eventually they should manage to provide you with information. This may take years. I was a little girl (sitting under a table with a doll) when I first went to the Guild. We finally made contact with my grandfathers family when I was 25.

    The only advice I can give is to annoy them, keep your file fresh... write to them, email them, telephone them. Aim to make contact every couple of weeks looking for new information. Take every hint they give you and work on it (but don't get distracted). Keep on top of the legislation, be active in forums and groups and make contacts.... oh, and be nice but firm with Sr Francis!

    Had the researchers in the Guild some cop on they could have traced my grandfather years before he died, the file is almost a breadcrumb trail to his location.

    Good luck with your search... you'll get there eventually.


  • #14
    MaryMagdalene
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭MaryMagdalene


    NGibbler wrote: »
    Hello All :)

    This is very strange i was just talking to saint patricks guild on the phone and went online to look at fourms about tracing!

    Im looking for my birth mom i got all the non identifing information like 2 years ago and im still waiting for contact, but still no luck,

    I wish you all the best in your searches mine seems to have gone down the drain :(


    Hi NGibbler, you are welcome to butt in any time :D.

    Have you looked at the tracing guided in the posting above by Cathy? They are your best bet as the Agencies are generally extremelly slow.


  • #15
    NGibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭NGibbler


    MaryMagdalene wrote: »
    Hi NGibbler, you are welcome to butt in any time :D.

    Have you looked at the tracing guided in the posting above by Cathy? They are your best bet as the Agencies are generally extremelly slow.


    Hi MaryMagdalene, Thanks :)

    I am going to go try find my original birth cert in the Records room, Silly question wonder if you may know? Since i have a Birthcert already dated and stamped from my birthday 12/12/87 with my adoptive parents name ect on it, They agency told me that is my only birthcert that was ever issused for me ? I was not not adpoted untill 22nd March 88 so was i just invisible untill then, The agency will not even tell me where i was from dec-march.....

    PS: I read some of your previous post, Congrats on meeting your daughter :) brilliant news,

    Any help would be greatly appreciated

    N :)


  • #16
    MaryMagdalene
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭MaryMagdalene


    Thanks for that, it is great to be reunited :).

    I think what you have is your adopted birth cert which has your adoptive parents names and your adopted name but I have never seen one personally.

    By law you have to have an original one with your original name and your birth mothers name - I got this for my daughter.

    However, there are others that have more knowledge of that and that have actually gone to the records room and found their original birth certs so hopefully some of them will come on-line and give their view soon.


  • #17
    NGibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭NGibbler


    Thank you :)

    Its nice to see it from the other side too, Fingers crossed ill keep it posted :)

    N x


  • #18
    kelso213
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭kelso213


    Hi NGibbler,

    MaryMagdelene is right. What you have sounds like the amended birth cert that would have been issued to your parents. Its essentially your entry into the Adopted Register.

    Everyone is entered into the Births register and that entry should have your birth mothers name, maybe her address at the time and the name you were given.

    I have benn lucky enough to be issued mine by the Adoption board but you should be able to find it if you have some details.


  • #19
    NGibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭NGibbler


    kelso213 wrote: »
    Hi NGibbler,

    MaryMagdelene is right. What you have sounds like the amended birth cert that would have been issued to your parents. Its essentially your entry into the Adopted Register.

    Everyone is entered into the Births register and that entry should have your birth mothers name, maybe her address at the time and the name you were given.

    I have benn lucky enough to be issued mine by the Adoption board but you should be able to find it if you have some details.


    Hi Kelso

    Thanks for your input, Im going to go try locate my Birthcert just need to get the time off work to do it :)

    Did it take you long to to get yours?..... Hope your search is/went well

    N x


  • #20
    kathy finn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭kathy finn


    what u have is an adoption cert, every child born in ireland has a birthcert all u have to do is search for a baby born on ur date of birth, if u have ur non id info it will make it much easier. look for the fathers name missing and the surnames of baby and mother the same a real give away.kathy


  • #21
    gezzah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭gezzah


    :o it can take a long time it took us about 18 months to find my mums birth mother and then after that she did not want to meet my mum so be prepared for the rejection hopefully you will not have the same experience but sister Teresa is the best one to deal with if she is still there x good luck
    Mammyof2 wrote: »
    Dear All,

    My husband was adopted from St. Patricks, Temple Hill, in 1975/76, he has just sent a letter to St. Patrick's Guild, Merrion Road, who we believe should have his file, requesting his non-identifying info.

    Any idea how long this should take, and should we follow it up at some stage?

    Any advice would be really appreciated.

    Kind Regards,


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  • #22
    jendavnlillie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭jendavnlillie


    Hi,

    I am just starting my search for an adopted sister - St Patricks was the agency. I've sent the letter of looking for the non-identifying info, how long will this intial step of them replying take???
    I also intend on going to Joyce House and searching for the Adopted Birth Cert and then hopefully get enough info to locate her from the Extract of adopted childrens registry.
    Am I being too optomistic? I am aware that she may not want to have any contact and am prepared to be dissappointed but am really hoping its not going to take years to trace her???? Is it?


  • #23
    NGibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭NGibbler


    jendavnlillie wrote: »
    Hi,

    I am just starting my search for an adopted sister - St Patricks was the agency. I've sent the letter of looking for the non-identifying info, how long will this intial step of them replying take???
    I also intend on going to Joyce House and searching for the Adopted Birth Cert and then hopefully get enough info to locate her from the Extract of adopted childrens registry.
    Am I being too optomistic? I am aware that she may not want to have any contact and am prepared to be dissappointed but am really hoping its not going to take years to trace her???? Is it?

    Hi jendavnlillie

    Just a bit of advise, Any letter you do send them make your it is registered and then follow it up with a phone call. It is a very VERY slow process in my experience adn they tend to just forget about you if you dont keep at them! I have been searching for my BM and Sister there too and its been 4 years. hopefully this will not be the case for you. my way of thinking is be prepared for the worst then anything else you get or find is a plus :)

    Wish you all the best in your search! :)


  • #24
    neelyohara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    It can be a painfully slow process at the best of times and it really depends on what sort of information you are looking for. Getting the basic non-identifying details from the file shouldn't be too much hassle but it does take time - think of the volume of applications, getting into the archives to physically locate a hard-copy of the file, searching through the file for information.

    Again as NGibbler said send your letter via registered mail and do follow up with phone calls.

    I did, after years of searching, manage to trace my grandfather and see the guts of my mothers adoption file (I say 'the guts of' because I honestly don't think they'd hand everything over... and even the information I did get has occasional black marker running over text!).

    I would ask the Guild to trace your sister for you - this is a service they can offer. They have access to much more information that you ever will so it really shouldn't be that hard for them to find her.

    As far as I know they don't have any professional researchers or genealogists working with them and in my experience they failed to follow up on the most obvious of clues - for example my grandfather has an extremely rare surname and the file stated he was a border in Blackrock College.

    When I did get his information I telephoned Blackrock who were aghast that the Guild just didn't contact them directly - they keep impeccable records and had his contact information available via the alumni service. A few days later the fantastic archivist there had sent me copies of photographs, year books, ledgers, records, grades, notes, etc from his time there.

    Had they contacted Blackrock at the beginning we could have saved ourselves 15 years of phone calls, letters and endless searching.

    Just KEEP ANNOYING THEM. Get to know the staff, keep in regular contact, etc.

    Good luck!


  • #25
    jendavnlillie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭jendavnlillie


    Hi,
    thanks for all your previous replies. I got a reply from them within a couple of weeks, they needed a few things from my Mother but said they had no contact from my sibling.
    Today I spent in the Research office in the Irish Life Mall - this is where all the Registrys have gone from Joyce House- and after a painfully long time I found 3 people whop could be my sibling.
    Now the Trace Guide that Adoption Ireland is what I used but when I went up to the reception to fill in forms requesting the Birth Certs( for adopted people) I was told that I have to contac t Roscommon directly. I can't see them sending me out details just cos I ask them to??? Any advise on where to go frolm here????


  • #26
    Sipsy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭Sipsy


    Hi All, I have been searching for records of my grandfather who was born in Manchester and taken to the Guild as a baby by his mother.
    I've asked Sr Francis for info but she has said that MJ Cruice (Founder)kept very bad records and I had very little to go on:(
    He remembers being in The Sacred Heart Home and made firm friends there but he was "Adopted" at 4 years of age..Does anyone know if there are records of the children who went through the home or even the infant hospital in Blackrock...thanks all:)


  • #27
    Peter Joseph Maguire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭Peter Joseph Maguire


    Hi Mammy2,

    I am very interested in your case, my adoption was handled through St. Patrick's Guild in 1983 and Im in search for my natural family.

    I've been contacted by a person claiming to be my brother. Only problem is they have a number of Adopted certificates of babies born on the same day as me :(

    My supposed brother gave me my mothers name, my original birth name and brothers names and DOB's. I am just hoping that the guild will release the non-identifying info to me.

    What info did you ask them? Do you know if they will have my birth certificate on file? I presume with the non identifying info I can find my birth cert in the live birth registry in Dublin.

    Did they release your husband's mother's name?

    thanks in advance for any info, would really help.

    Peter Maguire.


  • #28
    neelyohara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    Peter Joseph Maguire wrote: »
    I've been contacted by a person claiming to be my brother. Only problem is they have a number of Adopted certificates of babies born on the same day as me :(

    My supposed brother gave me my mothers name, my original birth name and brothers names and DOB's. I am just hoping that the guild will release the non-identifying info to me.

    How did your brother find your details?

    Having your original name is a good start. I'm not 100% in the know with recent adoptions so hopefully someone here will correct me if I make a mistake.

    The first rule of searching is to always chance your arm! Asking never hurt anyone. The guild will only release your mothers details if it has appeared on your original birth certificate. In my case we always knew my grandmothers name (especially as adoption wasn't formalised back then). In any case apply for it anyway.

    If I were you I'd contact the guild, tell them that this person has contacted you and that you request that they verify the information. Provide them with as much information as you can. His name, his mothers name, DOBs, addresses, etc. If your mother has passed on they will contact the next of kin... which hopefully should be your brother. Ask them if they need any additional information (perhaps a death cert...).

    They should contact your mother/brother to request to release the information.

    The most annoying part of dealing with them is that they have to search for these people... in this case you can hand them the details on a plate and just ask them 'Is this me?!'.

    Everything going well they should be able to release your file to you. It will have copies of any correspondence that went through at the time and it can build up an interesting picture of who your parents were and what was happening at the time of your birth.

    If this isn't your brother then at least you've initiated the search. You can always request the non-identifying information from your file. It's a matter of slowly building up your information.

    It can be a little scary dipping your toe into the water but you'll get the hang of it!

    Good luck! :D


  • #29
    paulmcg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭paulmcg1


    Hi all,

    I was adopted in 1979 from St. Patricks Guild. Five years ago I got in contact with my birth mother through Sr Theresa. I thought she was fine to deal with. I dont think there were any significant delays getting the non-identifying info. I found out that my birth parents had gotten married a few years after I was given up for adoption and had three more boys so that was a surprise. Birth mother was young having me.

    After a few months I met with my birth mother, didn't go through the guild for this, only in the initial stages. I would recommend going through the guild to arrange reunion. The meeting was amicable but we haven't met since.The meeting location, and certain circumstances I will not go into, didn't make for the best initial meeting. I didn't get a chance to really talk to her.No privacy. Still in contact though.

    I often wonder about the time between when I was born and handed over to the guild and when my adoptive parents collected me. I think it was about 1-2 months early 1979, not too sure how long though. I think I was in Temple Hill. I wonder about the care given, the conditions, the routine etc. There is a period there where nobody I know can account for and I wonder about it.

    I would like to see my real birth cert. It really annoys me that I dont have a 'real' birth cert. I have a 'Certified copy of entry in the Adopted Childrens Register'. I am a private person and when my birth cert is required I dont like handing over this document.

    I would like to be able to look through any files relating to me. What files would there be? St Patricks Guild have a file presumably containing details of the adoption. Would this file contain feeding, medical records or any other information of time spent in a nursery? I just have a desire to fill in the gaps.


  • #30
    neelyohara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭neelyohara


    paulmcg1 wrote: »
    I would like to be able to look through any files relating to me. What files would there be? St Patricks Guild have a file presumably containing details of the adoption. Would this file contain feeding, medical records or any other information of time spent in a nursery? I just have a desire to fill in the gaps.

    The file I received read like a book of events around that time.

    Initial letters between my grandmother (who gave my mother up for adoption), a local bishop, Ms Cruice (the founder) discussing the pregnancy and advice on what she should do.

    Then letters start to flood in from a number of involved parties. My grandfather, grandmother, great-grandmother, my adoptive grand parents, Nursing homes, bishops, the RAF!

    It's not so much who was writing but what they were writing about. Even down to how my mother was nursing, what my great grandmother thought of my adoptive grandparents, how many times my g.grandmother and grandfather visited my mother, what they thought of her as she grew up (the seen her until is was about 2 or so) or the veiled threats to my grandmother that she had better make sure her payments for my mothers 'keep' should come through on time otherwise she may find my mother arriving on her doorstep (she was newly married at that time and these letters were going to the nursing home she stayed in during the pregnancy).

    Then there are copies of certs. Some receipts and general records along those lines.

    When I received it it was put into chronological order and a three page letter was put together buy the guild explaining the order of events.

    The file was huge. A big thick binder full of letters.

    Like anyone else I recommend you do your best to get your hands on it. It's unfortunate now that so much communication goes through via telephone and email and these little details are lost.

    Good luck!


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  • #31
    whitemoon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭whitemoon


    Hi all,

    Am doing search at min for my husband who was born in 1967 and was in Temple Hill until he was almost 3 yrs old. Found his original birth cert v quickly in Irish Life two weeks ago and managed to trace his BM's birth cert i think on familysearch.org website and have ordered it online so hopefully will have it in a few days. Tyview has given advice on how to try to locate BM marriage cert so will try that next week. But even in doing all this the one thing that is missing is photos of my husband for the first 3 years of his life which really is a long time. We have four children and prob 4 million photos of them as babies and toddlers and with their pals. Who did he play with, who comforted him when he was upset or unwell???

    Have recently made contact with St Patricks guild and they have been quick to acknowledge our letter but there are no photos or details like that on file. Not sure how this will pan out cos get the impression from the non identifying info that no one connected to his BM knew or knows anything about his existence.

    Find it so hard to believe that some one can carry that huge secret around for 44 years !!

    Anyway if anyone knows of photos of maybe similar aged people who would have been in Temple hill at that time perhaps you could let me know.

    Thanks for 'listening'. He really finds it hard to talk about.


  • #32
    tyview
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭tyview


    Hi Whitemoon,

    Just saw ur post and thought I'd just say that I was in temple hill for 6 weeks and my BM visited me and was allowed to take photos. She was brought into a very small room with only a chair in it and had to lie me down on it and take a couple of photos. It might be possible that your husbands BM visited him there too.


  • #33
    whitemoon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭whitemoon


    Thanks tyview never really thought about that before. Will see how things go with trace and maybe if sometime in the future there is contact we might be lucky enough to get something.


  • #34
    whitemoon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭whitemoon


    An update on search,

    went into research room yesterday and found bm's marriage cert within ten mins!! Couldn't believe it, helped that names although not unusual, are not too common. Also found two brothers and a sister and the family address and the scary thing is that it is very close to the family home of a very good friend, actuallu across the road. Now I suppose we just sit and wait for St Patrick's to get back to us and then take things from there but the feeling of at least knowing now who she is helps a lot even if she does not want any contact.


  • #35
    ModeMadFan
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭ModeMadFan


    Hi All,

    I wanted to throw my tuppence worth in to the debate. I had dealing with a Social worker there when the office was in Haddington Road. Christine was her name and she was very nice and helpful. She found my birth Mother quite quickly but that was almost 15 years ago. I was told some things about my natural family like my parents married and had a number of siblings including twins. They said that there were not ready to meet as the children were wrong. As you all know there is that part of you like a jigsaw that is missing and will never go away until you get the answers you so crave. Anyway the weird thing is that I have asked a couple of Private Investigators to search for them and to date nothing. I've even gone into the Records office to try and trace the twins whom I believe, according to the information given to me, were born between 71-73. And Nothing!!

    So now I am questioning everything I was told by Christine. Also I am questioning if my Mother came up with all this to throw people off the scent.

    Like the other people I've found the marriage certificates of everyone with her name but again nothing.

    I'm going to chance talking to Sister Francis who was really rude the last time I spoke to her about 18 months ago. I happened to phone when she was going on her holidays and she said she would ring back!! Nothing again.

    I am so annoyed and frustrated that St Patrick's Guild have a file on me and I am not entitled to the information contained within it!! I know that's the way things are but it is so unfair to adopted people!!

    I'll finish now before I explode and wish all who are searching the best of luck because I am now starting to question everything I was told about my natural family as every lead comes up as a dead end!!

    Gary


  • #36
    justagirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Hello Gary

    I just came across this thread whilst having my own 'strop/moment' about how impossible the whole adoption research thing is....... Rant over !...

    I notice your posting was back in March - have you had any joy since?

    Myself - I am just trying to find my original birth cert, I know my BM name (have met etc), date of birth, place of birth and have searched under the name she wanted me called - but only birth on this day is in an entirely different hospital and different first name ........

    Would anyone know if there was a house associated with St Patricks Guild/Temple Hill that women stayed in just before they gave birth in Holles Street?

    Thanks so much :)

    ModeMadFan wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I wanted to throw my tuppence worth in to the debate. I had dealing with a Social worker there when the office was in Haddington Road. Christine was her name and she was very nice and helpful. She found my birth Mother quite quickly but that was almost 15 years ago. I was told some things about my natural family like my parents married and had a number of siblings including twins. They said that there were not ready to meet as the children were wrong. As you all know there is that part of you like a jigsaw that is missing and will never go away until you get the answers you so crave. Anyway the weird thing is that I have asked a couple of Private Investigators to search for them and to date nothing. I've even gone into the Records office to try and trace the twins whom I believe, according to the information given to me, were born between 71-73. And Nothing!!

    So now I am questioning everything I was told by Christine. Also I am questioning if my Mother came up with all this to throw people off the scent.

    Like the other people I've found the marriage certificates of everyone with her name but again nothing.

    I'm going to chance talking to Sister Francis who was really rude the last time I spoke to her about 18 months ago. I happened to phone when she was going on her holidays and she said she would ring back!! Nothing again.

    I am so annoyed and frustrated that St Patrick's Guild have a file on me and I am not entitled to the information contained within it!! I know that's the way things are but it is so unfair to adopted people!!

    I'll finish now before I explode and wish all who are searching the best of luck because I am now starting to question everything I was told about my natural family as every lead comes up as a dead end!!

    Gary


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  • #37
    ModeMadFan
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭ModeMadFan


    Hi Justagirl,

    No more news for me. I went back to St Patrick's Guild and basically told them that I had tried to search for my family with the information that they'd been given and I hadn't found anything.

    They said they would try and contact my Birth Mother and see if the information given was true or was she trying to throw me off the scent.

    Very disheartened now as I feel worse about my Birth Mother then when I was adopted.

    Anyway we will wait and see.

    Gary


  • #38
    justagirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    ModeMadFan wrote: »
    Hi Justagirl,

    No more news for me. I went back to St Patrick's Guild and basically told them that I had tried to search for my family with the information that they'd been given and I hadn't found anything.

    They said they would try and contact my Birth Mother and see if the information given was true or was she trying to throw me off the scent.

    Very disheartened now as I feel worse about my Birth Mother then when I was adopted.

    Anyway we will wait and see.

    Gary

    Hi Gary

    I am sorry to hear about your experience. I too think I was told, for want of a better word, 'incorrect' information. I don't know if St Pats Guild made it up (I too would have been in touch with SW about 15-20 yrs ago - I cannot remember her name) or if my BM gave them that information. I am in touch with my BM and I thought I was coming to the end of knowing everything - but now (it would need a whole new thread to explain!) ... I don't know if I should believe anything she has told me.

    I do hope you get a response soon - as I'm sure they can easily make contact with your BM again.

    The more I dig, the more I don't know. I am now wondering, should I have every started the search.

    I wish you every best of luck Gary and do let us know how you get on.


  • #39
    justagirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    whitemoon wrote: »
    An update on search,

    went into research room yesterday and found bm's marriage cert within ten mins!! Couldn't believe it, helped that names although not unusual, are not too common. Also found two brothers and a sister and the family address and the scary thing is that it is very close to the family home of a very good friend, actuallu across the road. Now I suppose we just sit and wait for St Patrick's to get back to us and then take things from there but the feeling of at least knowing now who she is helps a lot even if she does not want any contact.

    I was just wondering if you got any further in your husbands search?


  • #40
    whitemoon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭whitemoon


    hi justagirl,

    since posting that quite a lot has happened. We met with St Patricks Guild and they gave us a note with non-identifying info, however there was a very slight difference to the non identifying info we received 20 years ago...the original info stated that bm was from Dublin and had 3 children. The new info said that she had a Dublin address but may have been from the SouthEast....well that sent me back searching again and unbelievably I found another woman, with the same name (not v common) born in the same year as the first but from Wexford. (i had confined my original seach to Dublin based on the info i had). The Wexford woman has two other children, not three and lives in Dublin.

    So now we had two possible bms!! We contacted St Patricks and advised them of what we had found and asked them to try and make contact with her (whichever one she was!!) They eventually did and then asked hubby to write a short letter to her through them which she had agreed to. The letter sat in St Patricks for 3 months before she collected it. She did not want it posted as no one knows anything about hubby's existence. When she did pick it up she was apparently v emotional and wished she was able to meet him but did not have the strength to do it but did say she would reply.....never did. Aat this point we felt so frustrated... so near and yet so far... did not know which one she was...

    one day, whilst surfing the net and searching I came across a photograph of the 2nd woman and the resemblance to hubby and my oldest daughter was uncanny...so eventually I took a chance and sent her a card at Easter, very discreet so that no one else would understand and asked her to contact me and gave my phone number....nothing. I felt if I had the wrong person they would have contacted me to say I had wrong address so a month later I sent another discreet card and said i would be in a specific coffee shop at 11 oc on the following Friday and I hoped she could make it. On the Thursday my husband received a phone call from St Patricks to say that bm had called over and would not be meeting me for coffee!! Well now we knew for sure who she was so there was comfort in that alone.

    The funny thing is she moves in the same circles as my mother, her youngest son( who knows nothing about hubby) worked with my brother..it really is a v small world!!

    3 weeks ago, hubby wrote her another letter and sent it to St Patricks. They contacted her to let her know it was there waiting for her and she said she would pick it up when she felt able to....so for now we continue to wait....Apologies for being so long winded but that is our story so far.... hope all goes well for you;)


  • #41
    justagirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    whitemoon wrote: »
    hi justagirl,

    since posting that quite a lot has happened. We met with St Patricks Guild and they gave us a note with non-identifying info, however there was a very slight difference to the non identifying info we received 20 years ago...the original info stated that bm was from Dublin and had 3 children. The new info said that she had a Dublin address but may have been from the SouthEast....well that sent me back searching again and unbelievably I found another woman, with the same name (not v common) born in the same year as the first but from Wexford. (i had confined my original seach to Dublin based on the info i had). The Wexford woman has two other children, not three and lives in Dublin.

    So now we had two possible bms!! We contacted St Patricks and advised them of what we had found and asked them to try and make contact with her (whichever one she was!!) They eventually did and then asked hubby to write a short letter to her through them which she had agreed to. The letter sat in St Patricks for 3 months before she collected it. She did not want it posted as no one knows anything about hubby's existence. When she did pick it up she was apparently v emotional and wished she was able to meet him but did not have the strength to do it but did say she would reply.....never did. Aat this point we felt so frustrated... so near and yet so far... did not know which one she was...

    one day, whilst surfing the net and searching I came across a photograph of the 2nd woman and the resemblance to hubby and my oldest daughter was uncanny...so eventually I took a chance and sent her a card at Easter, very discreet so that no one else would understand and asked her to contact me and gave my phone number....nothing. I felt if I had the wrong person they would have contacted me to say I had wrong address so a month later I sent another discreet card and said i would be in a specific coffee shop at 11 oc on the following Friday and I hoped she could make it. On the Thursday my husband received a phone call from St Patricks to say that bm had called over and would not be meeting me for coffee!! Well now we knew for sure who she was so there was comfort in that alone.

    The funny thing is she moves in the same circles as my mother, her youngest son( who knows nothing about hubby) worked with my brother..it really is a v small world!!

    3 weeks ago, hubby wrote her another letter and sent it to St Patricks. They contacted her to let her know it was there waiting for her and she said she would pick it up when she felt able to....so for now we continue to wait....Apologies for being so long winded but that is our story so far.... hope all goes well for you;)

    No apologies needed at all - your reply was certainly not long winded :) I am delighted you are at least on the right track and have gotten the correct information this time.

    What a rollercoaster for you all. You are so right about it being such a small world. I wonder if your husbands BM knows who your husband is?


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  • #42
    adopt75
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭adopt75


    Hi there I.was adopted out of temple hill in the 70's I was born in April 1975 how do I go about possibly tracing my birth mother etc. Any info help greatly greatly appreciated.


  • #43
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    adopt75 wrote: »
    Hi there I.was adopted out of temple hill in the 70's I was born in April 1975 how do I go about possibly tracing my birth mother etc. Any info help greatly greatly appreciated.
    maybe start with reading the really useful sticky page with all the references and info ?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055042732

    anything that could/can be said here is already readable there.


  • #44
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    adopt75 wrote: »
    Hi there I.was adopted out of temple hill in the 70's I was born in April 1975 how do I go about possibly tracing my birth mother etc. Any info help greatly greatly appreciated.

    What munchkin_utd said but also...

    What do you know already?
    Do you know your date of birth/ original christian name/ mothers name?
    These three items can be enough to help you trace your original birth cert.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #45
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Here's a brief description of what I did.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #46
    adopt75
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭adopt75


    ="Hermy;90778024"]What munchkin_utd said but also...

    What do you know already?
    Do you know your date of birth/ original christian name/ mothers name?
    These three items can be enough to help you trace your original birth cert.[/quote]

    Hi there unfortunately all I have to go by is my date of birth and that I was adopted out of temple hill Blackrock in Dublin. Didn't know I could possibly try and get my original birth cert.


  • #47
    Ghekko
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Ghekko


    Hi adopt75. If you first of all register on the National Contact Preference Register you may be lucky to find that your bm is also registered. Though I am not sure how long it takes them to make a match and let people know. Then write to the agency you were adopted through - do you know 100% if its the correct one? We thought Dh was adopted through a particular agency but turned out he wasn't. Also thought he was born in Dublin but again, he wasn't! If you can get non identifying information through the agency it should be enough to find your original birth cert. Ask specific questions when you write to them. Use the tracing guide for examples of questions. Once you have your original birth name and your bm first name along with your date of birth you will have sufficient information to look through the registers in Werbergh Street, Dublin to find your birth cert. best of luck with it. In the meantime you may be lucky to get called to see a social worker about your case but I think waiting times in Dublin are long so might be best to start yourself. If you did find what you thought is your original birth cert you could always contact the agency and tell them you have this information and want it verified.


  • #48
    adopt75
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭adopt75


    Ghekko wrote: »
    Hi adopt75. If you first of all register on the National Contact Preference Register you may be lucky to find that your bm is also registered. Though I am not sure how long it takes them to make a match and let people know. Then write to the agency you were adopted through - do you know 100% if its the correct one? We thought Dh was adopted through a particular agency but turned out he wasn't. Also thought he was born in Dublin but again, he wasn't! If you can get non identifying information through the agency it should be enough to find your original birth cert. Ask specific questions when you write to them. Use the tracing guide for examples of questions. Once you have your original birth name and your bm first name along with your date of birth you will have sufficient information to look through the registers in Werbergh Street, Dublin to find your birth cert. best of luck with it. In the meantime you may be lucky to get called to see a social worker about your case but I think waiting times in Dublin are long so might be best to start yourself. If you did find what you thought is your original birth cert you could always contact the agency and tell them you have this information and want it verified.

    Thanks so much for the info I've looked at this agency etc and now have forms that I will fill out and send to them. Yes was 100% temple hill in Dublin in.1975 where I was adopted from.


  • #49
    figum
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭figum


    neelyohara wrote: »
    Ah Sr Francis, I haven't heard about her in a long time. She's a formidable force when it comes to extracting information.

    Grudgingly I have to say that in the end she did come through for me (tracing my mothers natural family). She had this incredible roundabout way of tracking somebody down... in so far as dealing with missionaries in Tasmania. Had she some common sense she would have seen (as referenced many times in the file) my Grandfather boarded at Blackrock. When I got the file I gave the archivist in Blackrock a quick call. She couldn't understand why Sr Fancis didn't call their directly, they could have provided her with a wealth of information including contact information. A day later the archivist sent me a lovely package of information on my Grandfather... from photographs of school plays, records of his fees paid (which includes what he had for breakfast, when he had his shoes repaired, etc!). She even put me in contact with people he went to school with.

    When the natural family agreed to release their information she prepared a large file for us. It started with what could be described as a five page 'story' of the adoption. Dates, times, names, etc made up from notes. A timeline of what had happened. This was then followed by a thick file of photocopied letters. I was disappointed to see some letters had black marker through them, when I queried this I was told 'That doesn't concern you dear...'. I believe my great-grandmother (on grandfathers side) became friends with the social worker involved and those blacked out lines may related to that.

    Oh and my mother was 'adopted' in the 40s (predating adoption law), technically she used her mothers name up until the week before she married (at 27) when her name changed to that of her adoptive parents - so we always had her mothers first and last name.

    I guess the point of my rambling is that eventually they should manage to provide you with information. This may take years. I was a little girl (sitting under a table with a doll) when I first went to the Guild. We finally made contact with my grandfathers family when I was 25.

    The only advice I can give is to annoy them, keep your file fresh... write to them, email them, telephone them. Aim to make contact every couple of weeks looking for new information. Take every hint they give you and work on it (but don't get distracted). Keep on top of the legislation, be active in forums and groups and make contacts.... oh, and be nice but firm with Sr Francis!

    Had the researchers in the Guild some cop on they could have traced my grandfather years before he died, the file is almost a breadcrumb trail to his location.

    Good luck with your search... you'll get there eventually.
    wow! what a story! By any chance have you got an email address I could write to? Thanking you.


  • #50
    marttom
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭marttom


    Hi Peter just ssw your post I know its s while ago .I trained in Temple hill in 1983 I have some photos snd name tags if you want to send me a pm with your birth name I will check if I have it ,I really would love to give them back.best wishes Nuala


  • #51
    Maria McLaughlin
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Maria McLaughlin


    I am a birth mother and I have been trying for years to trace my son who was born on 21st October 1981, I came directly from Loughlinstown Hospital and to St. Patricks Guild Haddington Road. THis was the saddest day of my life. I have tried to trace my son ringing Social Worker Christine who told me that she had written to my son but he was not in a position to contact me. I contacted Sr. Francis who I felt had no understanding or emphaty in what birth mothers live with when they have to give their heart and soul away. My beautiful baby boy who I love forever - I called him Peter Martin after Padre Pio and St. Martin. I have a strong belief and faith that I will one day be re-united with my son who will be age 33 years old now probably with a lovely family of his own. I just want to know that I gave him the best chance in life with a loving family who could provide for all his needs and love him as he should be loved and how I would have and still do to the day I leave this earth.

    I am going to continue to search for my son and if he does not want to meet with me then that will be his choice and I will respect this. I hope that he will want to meet with me and I pray that I will find him.


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