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Is planning permission required?

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  • 27-08-2014 3:18am
    #1
    dave10
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭


    Hi all, I have an elder cousin who is planning to move back home to restart farming as a hobby rather than a source of income. He used to farm and hasn't in many years. He is on welfare and cannot afford much nor the wait of planning permission.

    The situation is that he wants to build a small timber lodge behind the old derelict farmhouse he used to live in. Luckily I told him he might need planning for it so he wanted to know if it is possible to do so without planning permission? Under 25m2 of course, behind the old farmhouse & property boundary will be approx 20 metres away.

    He is planning on planting a few small crops and possibly keep a few pigs. Among that he is planning on doing quite a bit of maintenance to improve the look of the area as it has not been maintained in many years. No building restoration just clearing an enormous amount of overgrown shrubbery, mucking out old sheds and a lick of paint here and there. He is looking to live there a couple of days a week. He has no vehicle and cannot drive so traveling there without spending a lot of money a week is next to impossible. Winter is coming and unless he is planning on camping outside then he needs something pronto and planning permission wait is around 3 months by the looks of it.

    Any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks


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    #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,078 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yes planning permission is required as he wants to live in the structure.


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    #3
    bombadil
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭bombadil


    Extension to the existing dwelling below 25m.. no planning required as long as it is behind the frount line of the house and matches finish... check out faq on you county councils website.. also agricultural buildings require no planning... sometimes these can be converted to residential use..


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    #4
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,078 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    bombadil wrote: »
    Extension to the existing dwelling below 25m.. no planning required as long as it is behind the frount line of the house and matches finish... check out faq on you county councils website.. also agricultural buildings require no planning... sometimes these can be converted to residential use..

    1. OP never mentioned extension

    2. change of use from agri to domestic requires permission.

    3. existing farmhouse is derelict and most probably has lost its planning status as a dwelling.


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    #5
    Mearfada
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Mearfada


    From what you have said I think there are options.

    The derelict house although not currently habitable does not lose its status as a dwelling once it remains substantially in 'dwelling form' and most local authorities acknowledge this by making provision in their respective development plans for replacement dwellings. A modest structure may be acceptable as a replacement dwelling but demolition or sterilisation of the parent structure would have to be factored into mix as a condition of grant

    Depending on the planning authority i would be inclined to have a chat with the area planner and go through all the options from refurb to replacement and even partial demolition of the existing structure to reduce to a more manageable size.

    There may be issues around wastewater disposal but these are discussions to be had with the relevant dept if you can agree a path forward in principle.

    If planning was granted temporary accommodation in the form of a mobile home may be an option during construction subject again to the necessary permissions.

    If i were you i would source a site location map, arrange a pre-planning meeting and maybe have a word with a local councillor who may be prepared to arrange and even sit in on the meeting...best of luck


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    #6
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Mearfada wrote: »
    There may be issues around wastewater disposal but these are discussions to be had with the relevant dept if you can agree a path forward in principle.
    planning will be required for septic tank at a minimum


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    #7
    Mearfada
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Mearfada


    a wastewater system is a given if you are treating waste in rural locations however there are increasing instances of properties on the periphery of rural villages being picked up by new schemes so we cannot be sure that this isn't the case here.

    Also if the house is a viable candidate for renovation it may have an existing system already in situ and if the PE for the dwelling is to remain constant an upgraded system with the necessary percolation area, vent pipes etc would probably suffice.

    In the absence of having all the details it is impossible to surmise as to whether this person will get what they are looking for in terms of a dwelling, however with the facts to hand I would say they have a pretty good shot if they went about it in the right way

    too often in Ireland we are quick to point out all the obstacles rather than looking to what may be possible


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    #8
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,078 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    to be fair, the only information as to what was proposed was ....
    he wants to build a small timber lodge behind the old derelict farmhouse he used to live in. Luckily I told him he might need planning for it so he wanted to know if it is possible to do so without planning permission? Under 25m2 of course, behind the old farmhouse & property boundary will be approx 20 metres away.
    ....

    which of course requires planning permission.


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    #9
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Mearfada wrote: »
    too often in Ireland we are quick to point out all the obstacles rather than looking to what may be possible
    i completely agree, however all to often vague questions are asked and only half answered, so erring on the side of caution is best IMO, so when seeking or giving advice i generally try to take direction for the forum charter:
    Be aware that being an open public forum you may not always get exactly the response you would hope for.

    Whilst advice might be sought/given in this forum, posters should make every effort to verify advice expressed herein with a suitably qualified independent third party who possesses the appropriate Professional Indemnity insurance cover.


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    #10
    RITwing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭RITwing


    Mearfada wrote: »
    too often in Ireland we are quick to point out all the obstacles rather than looking to what may be possible

    The folly of "postive thinking" when one turns away from reality ....


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    #11
    kkelliher
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    Mearfada wrote: »
    too often in Ireland we are quick to point out all the obstacles rather than looking to what may be possible

    Experience will show that having the ability to identify the obstacles is a complete necessity in order to get to the end solution in planning for a project.

    Being positive for positive sake does not get projects completed or even started.


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    #12
    RITwing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭RITwing


    "too often in Ireland we are quick to point out all the obstacles rather than looking to what may be possible" = "ah sure it'll do" in more elegant prose is all.


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    #13
    Mearfada
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Mearfada


    Sorry Rit but that's not what I was saying, I was giving my opinion as a chartered town planner who has practised for 15 years in more than just this jurisdiction... your assumption that i am endorsing a laissez faire attitude is wrong, it is totally the reverse...just because one projects a can do attitude is not a reason to be cynical and sniping...If a person asks a question or needs advice whats the problem offering positivity coupled with realism...you might think twice before you roll out the wise cracks in future


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