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After breakup contact..

  • 03-07-2008 10:38pm
    #1
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭


    Ok about a month ago i had a thread here about a breakup.. got pretty long cause there was a scary amount of girls going through a similar thing!

    5 weeks on & im doing alright.. not great but alright.. but i feel like i need to give out a bit, i hope its ok to put it here. im not usually one for telling my feelings to the world, but i got a lot of good advice here the last time.

    So for a week & a half after the breakup there was no contact. until he got his exam results & text me. which led to me getting crazy emotional. bit more contact. then i went away for a bit, in the middle of which i got v drunk & there was some vicious mean texting. & we havent spoken since. which would make it a week & a half today. & i was doing quite well when i was away. so today there i am all proud thinking along the lines of milestones, & tonight he texts me. its not an emotional text or anything, in fact its straight to the point. he owes me money, had said hed have it to me by the end of june, tonight he txt & said some things came up & hed have it in the next few weeks, would i send him my bank details, thanks. actually it wasnt even as friendly as thanks it was thank you.

    So why do i feel like falling apart again? part of the problem is id been thinking about him a lot today. id been doing good since i got back from being away (at the weekend), but id been busy most of the week. & i dont think the weather helped my mood much either. but today i was thinking about him & REALLY missing him, like more than i have in a long time. & then i get the text. i knew id have to deal with him & the money situation, but i was going to leave it for a couple of weeks until i felt stronger. i just replied politely & said ok & to let me know when he had the money & id give him the bank details then. ive gotten past the desire to tell him i miss him, because i dont want him to know how much im still hurting. & sometimes im not, but sometimes it hurts as badly as the day it happened. & i think the coldness of the text hurt too. i know theres no point him being overly friendly but it kills me to think its HIM being like that with ME, when we used to be us.... God i sound like such a weirdo..

    & its like he somehow KNEW i was getting to my own little milestone & going "yay go me" & had to destroy that for me.

    the thing is, as much as i want him, love him, miss him, i know if he came begging back to me there is no way i could take him back, ive gone through too much pain to risk it again. so why do i still want him?

    Im so confused & hurt so much. hopefully this will pass tonight & ill feel a little more normal again tomorrow. i have a night out planned tomorrow so hopefully i can control the drunken texting. but i find once there has been ANY contact its hard to pull it back to none again. like if i hadnt from him tonight i wouldnt text him tomorrow night, but now i have itll be in my head.

    ITS SO STUPID :(

    sorry, i just needed a rant :( didnt realise it would go on so long!


Comments

  • #2
    Wurly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Wurly


    Hey OP,

    I remember your post from last time.

    You're doing good. Don't be so hard on yourself. These are all natural feelings. The coldness is upsetting cos you used to be so close. The texts rubbed salt in the wounds.. All natural.

    I bet in a few days, you'll feel okay again. This has just knocked you for six. Keep yourself busy and do fun things. When he pays you back your money, delete his number. You don't want him back anyway so what's the point in keeping it?

    Don't waste your time speculating what he's thinking. You could be on the money or wide of the mark. What difference does it make either way. And sure you'll prob never know if you were right or not.

    You're doing good. Chin up.x


  • #3
    Karen_*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭Karen_*


    I know it feels like one step forward and two steps back Sara but realistically its only five weeks. Yes you've done great and yes there's been much healing but when you hear from again it does feel like a set back. And the odd bit of contact and setting back seems to be part and parcel of a breakup. Horrible I know and very upsetting but its also useful because its reminding you why contact is such a bad idea.

    So you know for sure now that him being aorund at all does you absolutely no good at all. And yes the coldness of the texts are cruel but they stem from a bit of hurt too. If he didn't give a toss he'd be really friendly. He's got a barrier up.

    But never mind about him. Why not just send the bank details now so he's no reason to contact you again and then you won't be this cut up in a few weeks time. Because its not a nice feeling is it? And refusing to give them to him looks like you want him to get in touch again.

    You know you won't take him back. You go girl! He's not right for you anyway and there's someone out there who is and until you are over this guy you won't meet him. and while you're waiting for the love of your life you should be enjoying your freedom and not miserable. What are you waiting for? Close the door on this. You know from the last five weeks that its possible to cope and that you can live without him. Another five weeks will see more change.

    I know it hurts but it won't forever


  • #4
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    completely breaking all contact is what did the trick for me.
    I called up my ex, told her it was the last time i'ld be speaking to her, please don't contact me again, wished her good luck with her life n hung up (though it didn't quite end there, but thats a different story).

    But yeah, the more you keep getting back in contact with your ex, the harder and longer it'll get for you to get over the whole break up and move on with your life. To move on fast and with the least pain you'll hafta completely remove every trace of your ex from your life and turn your focus onto something else for atleast 3 months. I know its easy to say n hard to do, but trust me, it is the most efficient and best way to get over your past. I'm speaking from experience, and quite a terrible one.

    So if you really wanna get on with a new life, you'll hafta forget that your ex exists for atleast 3months. No calls, no texts, no mails, no piling up memories. Just focus on a new life. Its hard, but not impossible and will save you a lot of grief. With money back guarantee!


  • #5
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    Tri wrote: »
    You don't want him back anyway so what's the point in keeping it?

    well today i wanted him back so badly it hurt.. but i know i could never TAKE him back. doesnt stop me wanting it. ah my stupid heart, when will it catch up with my brain.
    Tri wrote: »
    Don't waste your time speculating what he's thinking. You could be on the money or wide of the mark. What difference does it make either way. And sure you'll prob never know if you were right or not.

    You're doing good. Chin up.x

    it doesnt make a difference what hes thinking. i know were over.. but whys it gotta be so hard!

    i feel so silly making another thread :o just needed to talk about it all somewhere :(


  • #6
    Karen_*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭Karen_*


    Sara try going 50 days without contacting him or replying to him and if it doesn't work I'll refund you your misery!:D


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  • #7
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    sar84 wrote: »
    it doesnt make a difference what hes thinking. i know were over.. but whys it gotta be so hard!

    i feel so silly making another thread :o just needed to talk about it all somewhere :(
    Its good to talk about it. It'll lighten your burden.
    You can talk about it all you want over here and we're always here to listen to you. Letting it all out here will give you an outlet for you pain so you can feel better and it'll also keep you from contacting your ex and making it worse for yourself.

    So fell free, this place is to help. You can talk all you want about it and we'll listen to it all!

    and also help and support you when you need some...


  • #8
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    Karen_* wrote: »
    I know it feels like one step forward and two steps back Sara but realistically its only five weeks. Yes you've done great and yes there's been much healing but when you hear from again it does feel like a set back. And the odd bit of contact and setting back seems to be part and parcel of a breakup. Horrible I know and very upsetting but its also useful because its reminding you why contact is such a bad idea.

    So you know for sure now that him being aorund at all does you absolutely no good at all. And yes the coldness of the texts are cruel but they stem from a bit of hurt too. If he didn't give a toss he'd be really friendly. He's got a barrier up.

    But never mind about him. Why not just send the bank details now so he's no reason to contact you again and then you won't be this cut up in a few weeks time. Because its not a nice feeling is it? And refusing to give them to him looks like you want him to get in touch again.

    You know you won't take him back. You go girl! He's not right for you anyway and there's someone out there who is and until you are over this guy you won't meet him. and while you're waiting for the love of your life you should be enjoying your freedom and not miserable. What are you waiting for? Close the door on this. You know from the last five weeks that its possible to cope and that you can live without him. Another five weeks will see more change.

    I know it hurts but it won't forever

    Thanks, everything you said makes sense. i did think about giving him the bank details now, but to be honest hes the kind of person that would accidentally delete the text or write them down & lose them. So id be thinking yay im done with him & then id get a text asking for them again. plus id rather he told me when he put the money in so i can check he has. its not just a few euro..
    af_thefragile wrote: »
    So if you really wanna get on with a new life, you'll hafta forget that your ex exists for atleast 3months. No calls, no texts, no mails, no piling up memories. Just focus on a new life. Its hard, but not impossible and will save you a lot of grief. With money back guarantee!

    Thats what ive been trying to do. the only contact has been for his exam results (i asked to be told, then regretted it cause realised thered have to be contact), once in drunkenness (the 1st time id been drunk since it happened) & today. so im actually doing pretty good. i KNOW contact is no good, thats why im avoiding it, its just when it has to happen it destroys me then.


  • #9
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    Karen_* wrote: »
    Sara try going 50 days without contacting him or replying to him and if it doesn't work I'll refund you your misery!:D

    lol wow what an offer! i did 12, it was that b*stard that ruined it all! :mad:


  • #10
    couerdelion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    It's never easy breaking up. I still keep in contact with an ex four years after I last saw her.
    We had no contact for about a year, after still texting for a month or so she decided she wanted to split and I was desperate to keep it going.

    Now it's normally her who contacts me to say hello and flirt a bit. She wanted me to go back at one point but I aren't interested at all. I've moved on and am married to a much better girl. It feels good to be the one in control now :-)


  • #11
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I also remember reading your thread a couple of weeks ago. When my relationship broke up I literally felt like i hit rock bottom, I cant blame it all on him as i wanted the fairy tale and he couldnt give it to me though promised he would. i am two months plus single. I finally stop contact last week after many painful weeks of going around in circles. There was all the usual angry texts and arguements and the we are so great together phone calls then the lets meet up, we are great friends phone calls. Finally , I realised i was actually starting to rely on "the crumbs he was throwing from the table". That was last week. He texted some how are you kind of text today. i didnt reply cos if he really cared he knows where i live. i just keep thinking of all the pain i went through that stops me texting him. He is texting cos he knows he treated me badly and has a guilty concious. I dunno how long it takes anybody to heal.

    I dont want to take away from other poeple who have terrible addictions but i literally take it one day at a time. Sometimes its good. Sometimes its bad. The pain dosent go away but gets easier to deal with..http://static.boards.ie/vbulletin/images/icons/icon10.gif
    http://static.boards.ie/vbulletin/images/icons/icon10.gif


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  • #12
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    sar84 wrote: »
    Thats what ive been trying to do. the only contact has been for his exam results (i asked to be told, then regretted it cause realised thered have to be contact), once in drunkenness (the 1st time id been drunk since it happened) & today. so im actually doing pretty good. i KNOW contact is no good, thats why im avoiding it, its just when it has to happen it destroys me then.

    Well, what's done is done, no point dwelling at the past. Afterall there's nothing the past has given us.
    You realized it was a mistake to ask him to give you his results, thats a good thing, its all of your little mistakes that you'll learn the most from.

    So now you have realized contact with him = massive pain.
    Thats why to avoid the pain, you need to avoid contact with him. (just keep saying this to yourself too, it'll work like an incantation!).

    Now looking at the future, look you're single again!!
    Its brilliant to be single. You're absolutely free to do whatever you want, speak to whoever you wanna without having to be answerable to anyone. Take this time as an opportunity. Opportunity to discover yourself. Opportunity to make yourself better and stronger. Opportunity to pursue your dreams at full throttle without any other worries and concerns. Trust me, what you'll learn over the next few months will be absolutely invaluable to you. I am happy that i broke up with my ex cuz if i wouldn't have had, i wouldn't have had grown into the person i am right now.

    Look, relationships happen throughout life. You were in a relationship, you do come off as a really nice and loving person, you won't have much problem getting into another one. (though its highly not recommended for you to get into a new relationship to get over this one cuz it'll do you more harm than good). So well, take this time off for yourself. Just you. Cuz you are the most important person in your life and there's nothing else more important than you. Go over your past, figure out what mistakes you made in your relationship which resulted in the breakup, work on them and make sure you don't make the same mistakes again. Make yourself emotionally happier, stronger and better. This will be a great time for you and don't waste it away dwindling in the past!


  • #13
    Ginny
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Ginny


    Its going to be hard Sar, silly things still get to me 6 months later.
    I used an old phone by mistake the other day and found texts from the day he dumped me, noone would have copped what was coming that night from them, it broke my heart having it all there in print in front of me.
    We had still be talking back and forth very civilly and a few weeks ago and texted him wishing him good luck on a major thing in his life, and the bollix didn't even bother replying.
    I think what I'm trying to say is you need something to piss you off, make you more angry then sad about it all, now if the bollix contacted me I'd have nothing to do with him, I'm seeing things from less of a Rose tinted view, and realising how f-ing selfish he was, always putting himself and his needs first.
    Can you sort the money out and change your number?
    At least they're will be no un ecpected texts again?


  • #14
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Now looking at the future, look you're single again!!
    Its brilliant to be single. You're absolutely free to do whatever you want, speak to whoever you wanna without having to be answerable to anyone. Take this time as an opportunity. Opportunity to discover yourself. Opportunity to make yourself better and stronger. Opportunity to pursue your dreams at full throttle without any other worries and concerns. Trust me, what you'll learn over the next few months will be absolutely invaluable to you. I am happy that i broke up with my ex cuz if i wouldn't have had, i wouldn't have had grown into the person i am right now.

    Yeah thats what ive been trying to do. i went off to work in a different place for a couple of weeks - something i wouldnt have done with him in my life, & thinking about going back there for awhile (not just as simple as going, depends on some other stuff but its an option). so im trying to be happy being me, & mostly im dealing ok but sometimes it all hits me.
    af_thefragile wrote: »
    Look, relationships happen throughout life. You were in a relationship, you do come off as a really nice and loving person, you won't have much problem getting into another one. (though its highly not recommended for you to get into a new relationship to get over this one cuz it'll do you more harm than good). So well, take this time off for yourself. Just you. Cuz you are the most important person in your life and there's nothing else more important than you. Go over your past, figure out what mistakes you made in your relationship which resulted in the breakup, work on them and make sure you don't make the same mistakes again. Make yourself emotionally happier, stronger and better. This will be a great time for you and don't waste it away dwindling in the past!

    i have no intention of jumping into a new relationship. even if mr. perfect came along i know i couldnt handle it right now. & thats fine, im happy to be just me for awhile. i still miss him, but i know its for the best & i know i need to be on my own right now.
    GinnyJo wrote: »
    Its going to be hard Sar, silly things still get to me 6 months later.

    Oh God dont say that to me! Although i can believe it, because its been 5 weeks now & the pain is still as fresh as the day we broke up, id imagine its gonna take a long long time before im totally over it all.
    GinnyJo wrote: »
    Can you sort the money out and change your number?
    At least they're will be no un ecpected texts again?

    i dont need to change my number. i know what hes like, he wont contact me unless its really necesssary like the money. once the moneys sorted i wont hear from him again.

    Thanks for all the replies. writing here last night stopped me from going crazy & i felt much better when i was going to bed than i wouldve otherwise :)


  • #15
    bennyblanco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭bennyblanco


    Hey girl,
    How are you today?
    I read your thread there,you're grand,it's perfectly normal to feel how you did sometimes.My ex was back onto me last week.Ugh,talk about dredging up the ****!
    I hope you're feeling better today,for me I find it comes and goes,although I must say,I'm happier now than I was,like fragile said,the knowledge I've gained not only of relationships but also of myself is priceless and now I've time to do the things that I really want to do.:D
    It's pretty cool really once you get used to it.It just takes time I suppose and I still have my moments but less and less as the time passes.I'm not saying it's easy but it is certainly getting easier.
    Anyway I doubt I can add anything better than the previous posters.
    You're doing good and sure we're here for you whenever you want/need:)


  • #16
    projectmayhem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭projectmayhem


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    completely breaking all contact is what did the trick for me.

    +1. the end is the end. i can't ever see myself having a friendly relationship with an ex. cutting all contact means you don't harbour any desire for the person, won't get jealous if they hook up with others around you and of course, leaves you free to move on with your own love-life, as it were.


  • #17
    MJOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭MJOR


    It's good Sar to know that you can't take him back... you are doing waaaayy better than most people I know that have been thru something similar.

    For me I think the hardest thing with a break up is the lack of contact and affection.

    It's great also that you know there'll be very little contact.

    Chin up girl... There is only one way for you and that is up!

    You'll do so well because eventhough you're sad you are in the right frame of mind!

    You go Girl:D


  • #18
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    MJOR wrote: »
    For me I think the hardest thing with a break up is the lack of contact and affection.

    Yeah definitely. im a big hugger, always makes me feel better & a hug from him would usually solve everything for me. now i dont have anyone to hug me!

    thanks everyone for the replies. i know itll get easier. it has gotten easier over the past 5 weeks, i guess its just a bad day.

    & i shouldnt have read the bloody ladies lounge thread on the first time you said i love you, brought back enough memories to make me bawl! bloody memories, be so nice to just be able to lock them away somewhere & never have to deal with them!


  • #19
    MJOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭MJOR


    That is totally it.... I hear you the texts especiaily for me too I always found.

    Go buy yourself a new pair of fab shoes as a treat and head out with the girls....Do your make up and really pamper yourself.. Don't BRING YOUR PHONE

    Confidence is attractive and there is nothing better than a few compliments from a few men to make yours grow!


  • #20
    R0ot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    In regards to the drunken texting/calling the best remedy i've found to this is remove his number from your phone completely including any previous texts. (If you have a good memory for numbers then your kinda stuck sorry)

    Some people don't like to do this but its very easy to write the number down in a notebook somewhere so that if the need arises you still have the number available but are less likely to have it when your out drinking. This is just my method and obviously won't work for everyone just putting it out there.


  • #21
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    R0ot wrote: »
    In regards to the drunken texting/calling the best remedy i've found to this is remove his number from your phone completely including any previous texts. (If you have a good memory for numbers then your kinda stuck sorry)

    Some people don't like to do this but its very easy to write the number down in a notebook somewhere so that if the need arises you still have the number available but are less likely to have it when your out drinking. This is just my method and obviously won't work for everyone just putting it out there.

    unfortunately i know the number! :(

    ive only done the drunken texting thing once since we broke up, & that was the first time i was really drunk. since then ive been drunk twice but had such a good time i didnt even think of him :) so i know im doing good, but the problem is hes in my head today & i think im going out tonight. i might have to give my phone to the girls to mind for me!

    just when im getting him out of my head he comes back. havent dreamt about him in over a week but it happened again this morning. we were all happy in the dream, then i woke up to reality. stupid dreams!


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  • #22
    MJOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭MJOR


    sar84 wrote: »
    unfortunately i know the number! :(

    ive only done the drunken texting thing once since we broke up, & that was the first time i was really drunk. since then ive been drunk twice but had such a good time i didnt even think of him :) so i know im doing good, but the problem is hes in my head today & i think im going out tonight. i might have to give my phone to the girls to mind for me!

    just when im getting him out of my head he comes back. havent dreamt about him in over a week but it happened again this morning. we were all happy in the dream, then i woke up to reality. stupid dreams!


    Dreams are the worst.....


    Don't let it get you down and remember you are over the worst!


  • #23
    R0ot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    sar84 wrote: »
    unfortunately i know the number! :(

    ive only done the drunken texting thing once since we broke up, & that was the first time i was really drunk. since then ive been drunk twice but had such a good time i didnt even think of him :) so i know im doing good, but the problem is hes in my head today & i think im going out tonight. i might have to give my phone to the girls to mind for me!

    just when im getting him out of my head he comes back. havent dreamt about him in over a week but it happened again this morning. we were all happy in the dream, then i woke up to reality. stupid dreams!

    I have tried the "giving phone to a friend" bit, but due to the nature of alcohol sometimes you end up getting in a bad mood with that friend, which just aggregates(sp?) the situation.

    Remember dreams are just your unconscious thoughts that are strongest in your head, although a lot of people like to read into their dreams its usually better to take the good feeling part away with you but forget the dream itself.


  • #24
    Creachadóir
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 206 ✭✭Creachadóir


    hey there sar!

    Remember me! I think it'll give you hope that I'm well on the way to mending my heart. I still have bad moments thinking back, but mostly I've realised I'm better off out, and now I really believe it! You'll be ok, I think you took it as badly as me, and somewhat similar situation... make sure to get your money, sooner rather than later. You don't want to have to keep contacting him about it. And people often let these things slide, even if you wouldn't think they'd be like that.

    Met my ex's mum the last day. It was horrible, I was a bit like another daughter to her, and she knows her son was a bit of a sh*t to me. She wasn't cold, but distant...so I know what you mean about the coldness of the texts. But I guess that's just the way people have to act cos things are a bit awkward!


  • #25
    jellie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭jellie


    There was drunken texts of course. not too bad, i coped. he only replied this morning, but it was a nice enough reply, & i was a bit upset but i was doing ok.

    Then he sends me a link to a song saying that it sums up how he feels, and its all this crap like "i dont understand why i feel this way" "ill never forget you" & it made me cry so hard i nearly got sick.

    i just cant control my emotions at all now, im a mess :(


  • #26
    RedXIV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    chin up lass, Trust me, everyone needs to detox after a relationship, and if you didn't get this emotion out now, it'd only come back to bite you in the ass later.

    Now i know it feels horrible and that him sending you links to songs is not going to help BUT you need to keep reminding yourself that things happen for a reason, and in a relationship, they usually happen for a good reason. Especially the end of a relationship. You knew this feeling was going to suck but you also need to remember that your going to have good days and bad days. And the longer it goes on, the less bad days you're going to have. You sound like your coming past the worst, you sound like your starting to get tougher and i can't see you being this bad for much longer.

    You may not feel it now, but believe me, you're in the middle of the healing process, you're gonna get better, your gonna get tougher and your gonna get an awfully lot happier ;)

    Your time is coming

    Red


  • #27
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    sar84 wrote: »
    There was drunken texts of course. not too bad, i coped. he only replied this morning, but it was a nice enough reply, & i was a bit upset but i was doing ok.

    Then he sends me a link to a song saying that it sums up how he feels, and its all this crap like "i dont understand why i feel this way" "ill never forget you" & it made me cry so hard i nearly got sick.

    i just cant control my emotions at all now, im a mess :(

    You really bought this one upon urself.
    You really need to control yourself and stay away from him. No texts, no calls, nothing. Completely forget him and move on with your life pretending he doesn't exist.
    Everytime you contact him/attempt to contact him/get any contact from him, you WILL find yourself back at square one and you'll end up starting all over again.

    If you really wanna get over this guy and move on with your life and stop being this mess, you'll really hafta get a hold of yourself and let go of this kid. No contact. Thats it.
    If you don't and continue sending him those drunken texts, you'll end up feeling this way and it'll become pretty tough for you to get over this guy.

    You've really gotta atleast pretend this guy doesn't exist and try to function without contacting him. Do whatever you can to restrain yourself from any sorta contact. This is the only way you can get over him.

    Unless you wanna get back into a relationship with him. Then speak to him openly about it. That could be an option too if things haven't got too screwed up between the two of ye...


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