My first night at my rental house, a nightmare! I only slept for 10 mins!

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 9:01pm #1

I'm a foreigner. I just arrived to Ireland 2 weeks ago.

The apartment I rented 3 days ago is in front of a night club! I didn't know it was a night club before, and the estate agent failed to mentioned that either.

What's more he told me this is a very quiet place, I should keep quiet and not disturb others either.

Well, the maximum noise I can make couldn't be any closer to what the night club is making.

I only slept for 10 minutes in the whole night. I started trying at 10PM.

I have recorded videos, sounds and I shot pictures to prove disturbance while I was in my apartment trying to sleep last night. All is in my phone.

I paid 600 euros first month and 600 euros deposit.

Today is my second night today, in paper it's 4th day since I signed the 1-year contract.

Do I have a right to opt out of contract and get my deposit back since the place is not like what's agreed, and it's only a few days I signed it? Or in another words, is there a 1-week or something backing out period?

You may see one of the sample audio and picture I shot here on YouTube. It was at 3:20AM.
youtube.com/watch?v=RlCyOFKn6eE
(can't make it a link, not allowed, sorry. Select and copy paste please if you'd like to hear.)

Please guide me.

Thanks.

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 9:07pm

But he told me this is a quiet place. It is not. It is quiet during the day, when we looked at the house. I was never here during the night. It was a big shock for me.

Do I have like a 1 week opt-out period? I'd like to take my stuff and leave. I cannot sleep here during the night. Not even for 10 minutes.

TimeToShine · 06-07-2014 9:07pm

I know where this is.

Unfortunately, you are not entitled to break the lease on this basis. On the bright side, last night was a Saturday night in July so there is a bit of noise to be expected. I understand where you're coming from and agree that it can be very frustrating but it should be fine during the week.

Also, for what it's worth, 600 euro p/m in that area for what I presume is a single apartment is fairly cheap in relative terms. I know you weren't to know it being from outside Ireland but if I were looking for a single apartment in that area and saw 600 euro p/m advertised the alarm bells would be ringing.

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 9:14pm

He was talking in general. I informed him I go to work 9AM every morning and I go to sleep at midnight every night.

I'm not saying he had bad intentions, he was an helpful person. I'm just looking for a way out here. It was a surprise for me, nobody is guilty, but the place is not for me.

I have ear plugs but they give me headaches. I tried like 4 different variations in the past. All of them were the same.

TimeToShine · 06-07-2014 9:17pm

I'm afraid you're stuck then. You could contact him and ask for your deposit back - make up a sob story or something and he might just keep 600 as opposed to the 1200. Legally you don't have a leg to stand on though. Sorry. Your alternative is to find someone who is willing to take the lease over from next month onwards.

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 9:32pm

This is a nightmare.

Quote: "When buying a new car from a dealership, you are entitled to your full consumer rights as laid out by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. These rights are not present in the private sale of motor vehicles, however the seller is obligated to tell the truth and answer any"

Do estate agents not required to oblige this law? I thought it was a general law in all services and products in Ireland.

About the what I'm told of place being quiet.

athtrasna · 06-07-2014 9:34pm

Ata S. wrote: »

This is a nightmare.

Quote: "When buying a new car from a dealership, you are entitled to your full consumer rights as laid out by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. These rights are not present in the private sale of motor vehicles, however the seller is obligated to tell the truth and answer any"

Does the estate agent not required to oblige this law? I thought it was a general law in all services and products.

You are renting a property, sale of goods act is not relevant

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 9:37pm

Yeah but I didn't rent it from the landlord, I rented from an estate agent.

The law is "Sale of Goods and Supply of Services", and an agent supply a service between a landlord and tenant, no?

The_Morrigan · 06-07-2014 9:42pm

Ata S. wrote: »

Yeah but I didn't rent it from the landlord, I rented from an estate agent.

The law is "Sale of Goods and Supply of Services", and an agent supply a service between a landlord and tenant, no?

No. The agent is acting on behalf of the landlord...they are one and the same in this instance.
The sale of goods and services does not apply to property law.

littlejp · 06-07-2014 9:49pm

As said already, you can't get out of the lease for this reason but I would say this; I lived in an apartment right on a very busy crossroads in Phibsboro. Very close to a Hospital, Garda Station and Fire Station so we had sirens flying past at all hours all the time. There is also a busy, rowdy pub across from the apartment. When we first moved in it took some getting used to but we did get used to it. After a short while we didn't even notice.
Also keep in mind that it should be much quieter during the week.

Not ideal but you might just have to make the most of a bad situation.

darlett · 06-07-2014 10:20pm

You should check www.prtb.ie to check your rights, but I think as people are advising they possibly arent very many unfortunately.

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy Hopefully your landlord might be sound and cancel it all if your so unhappy, if not maybe there's something in here for you.
Who knows maybe give it a few days it might grow on you!

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 10:27pm

This is truly a nightmare then

.

I hope the estate agent will be understanding.

Thanks for all the information friends. I wish the estate agent will be helpful like you.

glaston · 06-07-2014 11:11pm

How about trying some disposable ear plugs, I've found them useful in the past.

Ata S. · 06-07-2014 11:42pm

They give me headaches if I use more than once a week. and right now, Sunday, it is as loud as yesterday.

athtrasna · 06-07-2014 11:59pm

Ata S. wrote: »

They give me headaches if I use more than once a week. and right now, Sunday, it is as loud as yesterday.

You will get used to it after a few weeks. I live in a flight path for Dublin Airport and the first two weeks were not fun. Now I never hear the planes. First few nights in any new place you will always be exceptionally sensitive to noises

fash · 07-07-2014 12:21am

Actually it sounds like misrepresentation.
False statement?
Made to induce the other party into a contract?
Relied upon?

You should be able to rescind the contract on that basis

Muahahaha · 07-07-2014 12:38am

Contact threshold.ie they give free advice to tenants for situations like your own and if there is any way they can help they will. I'm sure they will have come across your scenario before so should be able to guide you well.

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 12:41am

This is happening right now. Sunday night, like there's no Monday in 8 hours later.

Shot behind the double layer closed window.

youtube.com/watch?v=gHqmp6uJois

Kaizersoze81 · 07-07-2014 12:48am

That's totally unacceptable noise levels. No wonder the rent is so cheap

Brego888 · 07-07-2014 12:48am

That's pretty bad in fairness. But maybe stop uploading videos here at 12.40am and try to get some sleep.

TimeToShine · 07-07-2014 12:50am

At least it's The Pixies

In all seriousness, it is pretty bad. I agree that you should get in touch with threshold.ie and see what advice they can give you.

You would wonder who is actually out on a Sunday night though. Do people not have work? Summer jobs even

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 12:57am

Funny thing is I have a statement in my contract saying "I should keep the noise minimum".

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 12:59am

Brego888 wrote: »

That's pretty bad in fairness. But maybe stop uploading videos here at 12.40am and try to get some sleep.

I tried, I just can't go into sleep under these conditions.

the_syco · 07-07-2014 1:48am

Firstly, look into getting some white noise to blank out the noise from the nightclub.

Secondly, try ringing the landlord when the noise is loud?

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 1:52am

I'll try white noise right now.

Landlord is out of country or town at the moment, will come in a few days. I don't know what will I do until this is over. I just cannot sleep, I'm like a zombie.

TimeToShine · 07-07-2014 1:55am

This is a nice one I use a lot.

http://www.rainymood.com/

shruikan2553 · 07-07-2014 1:55am

Something like a fan will help. You can get an app for your phone that lets you choose noises. I found it helpful when at college. I lived in a place where the shop below us go deliveries right under my room at 6-7am but stopped noticing it after the first week.

As for leaving with your deposit, you'll need someone to take it over.

Bepolite · 07-07-2014 2:01am

Legalities aside - and there are reams of case law on the subject - if you don't like it there are ways and means of getting out of a lease.

Why, oh why though if committing to a lease did you not walk round the area at least twice, one time should have been at night, pref. on a Friday/Saturday. Before I even stay in a hotel I google map it!

That said I know what it's like getting here and trying to get everything sorted. Contact threshold or FLAC and see what they advise. (Hint both of those will be found using google :P)

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 2:13am

I walked around the area always. It is amazing in day time. I've never seen it at night. I'm in Ireland just for 2 weeks now.

I commit to a lease because they don't give places without a lease. Do you think I wanted the lease? Do you think I had dozens of options and I chose this apartment? It is a race here.

I called an agent once, before I can see the apartment, it got rented.

Should I have slept on the streets?

Should I have told the guy "oh, let me walk around the places at nights for a week and I'll come back next week again"?

I didn't just Google map it but also checked on the street view.

You look the world through your window. The one I have is very different than your reality, unfortunately.

JONJO THE MISER · 07-07-2014 3:35am

That noise would put me to sleep more than anything else.
Maybe you can sublet it out.

fash · 07-07-2014 9:03am

If you are going to claim misrepresentation- you should get moving on it as soon as possible. Otherwise it looks like you are just making it up to get out of the contract.
Approach the landlord and say:

"I will have to leave because of the noise.
I only recently arrived in the country, I asked you specifically if the area/apartment was noisy and you said it wasn't. I relied on this. You know (i'm assuming here) what job I do and the hours I keep.
In fact the apartment is extremely noisy
Had you said that it was noisy in the first place, I would never have taken the place.

Therefore I will leave the apartment and I want the rent paid back for any time I wasn't there- and the deposit paid in full."

I expect the landlord won't pay you back and you'll have to take it to the PRTB. You'll need as much evidence that the statement was made as possible. Telling the landlord in writing about the problem as soon as possible is evidence that the statement was made and that it was important. If the landlord responds with a "what I meant was..."- that's even better.
Other things like" I only recently arrived in the country ", " my job is 9-5 and I need to get up early " " I checked the place out during the day - but the problem didn't show " are all bits of evidence but circumstantial only. Your big problem is if the landlord claims strongly that no such statement was made. So make the best circumstantial evidence case you can and if you can get an admission that a statement of some sort was made etc- great.

I'm not sure I'd the PRTB has jurisdiction for this particular type of issue- but start there anyway.

f3232 · 07-07-2014 9:58am

Could you not just move out? I doubt the estate agent will bother perusing you for the lease, more hassle than it it worth for them. Also don't pay the rent for a month to get the deposit back.

Probably not morally right but its a solution?

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 10:02am

I cannot stay here one more day. I cannot sleep

I woke up at 9:30AM today and I'm late for work now. Also I didn't get enough sleep either, probably I got 5 hours or something.

foggy_lad · 07-07-2014 10:21am

Ata S. wrote: »

I cannot stay here one more day. I cannot sleep

I woke up at 9:30AM today and I'm late for work now. Also I didn't get enough sleep either, probably I got 5 hours or something.

Were your windows opened when you recorded those videos? I'm no expert but from the sound and from having lived across from a busy club and chippers on a main street I know the difference in sounds between having windows open and closed. It sounds like the windows are open.

I would say that what you are hearing is normal city noise and you will just have to get used to it or else move and pay for two flats until you find a person willing to put up with a bit of noise, I would suggest a more rural setting for your next address!

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-07-2014 10:35am

You can assign your lease to someone else. If someone is willing to take it, they will take over the lease and you can move out with no penalties. It's pretty much your only solution right now.

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-07-2014 10:40am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Were your windows opened when you recorded those videos?

I can't listen to the videos right now so can't comment, but this did remind me of when I first moved to the UK and lived in a room facing a busy street. The landlord had just had the window frames painted and asked that they were left open for a few days to dry and keep the fumes out.

The noise drove me mad for a couple of days and I closed the windows. Then the noise was still bad for another week til I realised they were sash windows and I had only closed the bottom half

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 10:42am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Were your windows opened when you recorded those videos? I'm no expert but from the sound and from having lived across from a busy club and chippers on a main street I know the difference in sounds between having windows open and closed. It sounds like the windows are open.

I would say that what you are hearing is normal city noise and you will just have to get used to it or else move and pay for two flats until you find a person willing to put up with a bit of noise, I would suggest a more rural setting for your next address!

in the last recording the window was closed, it is a double window.

i don't remember the first one but really window reduces only about the half of the sound.

loyatemu · 07-07-2014 11:08am

I assume there are planning restrictions on how much noise nightclubs are allowed leak into the street?

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-07-2014 11:21am

loyatemu wrote: »

I assume there are planning restrictions on how much noise nightclubs are allowed leak into the street?

The law allows for regulations on noise but does not constitute what these are (generally applied to allow for differing environments I reckon). For an already established street with pubs/clubs on it, either these limits already exist or not. Either way, I doubt they can change this based on one person's compaints as they will claim to have had no issues until now.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0007/sec0106.html#sec106

106.—(1) The Minister may, following consultation with any Minister of the Government who in the opinion of the Minister is concerned and with the Agency, make regulations for the purpose of the prevention or limitation of any noise which may give rise to a nuisance or disamenity, constitute a danger to health, or damage property.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), regulations under this section may provide for all or any of the following—
(a) controlling sources of noise,
(b) (i) specifying maximum limits for noise either generally or in specified areas or classes of areas,
(ii) specifying maximum limits for noise emissions, from or into premises or classes of premises, either generally or at specified periods, or
(iii) specifying maximum limits of noise levels in prescribed premises,
(c) regulating the operation, including licensing, of trades, processes or works, including the timing and control of movements of vehicles and the operation of engines and plant which are, or may be, sources of noise,
(d) limiting or prohibiting the use of loudspeakers in or adjoining public places, including different provisions for different places or classes of places and at different times, and subject to such exceptions as may be specified,
(e) the measurement of noise and the investigation of noise effects, or
(f) the imposition of charges or the payment of fees for the purposes of the regulations or for services performed thereunder.

Starokan · 07-07-2014 11:32am

If I were you I would just leave, you will obviously lose the deposit and if the landlord decides to pursue you then you can fight your case based on misinformation from the estate agent and use your videos etc to show that it was impossible for you to stay.

The reality is if you need to be up early for work/college you can not do so while living in that apartment. Sleep deprivation will become the norm for you.

Mrs OBumble · 07-07-2014 11:33am

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would suggest a more rural setting for your next address!

This.

Possibly the nightclub is spilling out more noise that it's planning rules say that it should, and the landlord could complain to them and get it reduced.

But if you are going to live in the inner city, then you can expect people yelling in the street after the nightclubs close (2-4am), street sweepers (from 5am), delivery wagons (from 6am ish .. maybe earlier in some places).

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-07-2014 11:38am

Starokan wrote: »

If I were you I would just leave, you will obviously lose the deposit and if the landlord decides to pursue you then you can fight your case based on misinformation from the estate agent and use your videos etc to show that it was impossible for you to stay.

The reality is if you need to be up early for work/college you can not do so while living in that apartment. Sleep deprivation will become the norm for you.

It's not just the deposit, it's the month's rent too. The OP has only been there a couple of days and is down €1200. Assigning the lease is the best option, if at all possible.

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 11:49am

If the landlord (agent) wants, am I obliged to pay for the remaining 11 months of rent?

TimeToShine · 07-07-2014 11:53am

Ata S. wrote: »

If the landlord (agent) wants, am I obliged to pay for the remaining 11 months of rent?

Yes.

If you don't he has the right to pursue you via the PRTB. Whether he will or not is a different matter.

Off the record...the PRTB are notorious for being very, very slow (think in terms of years) so if you don't intend on staying in Ireland you'll get away with it. It's also hassle on his behalf so if you are willing to forfeit the 1200 at the end of the month I doubt he'll bother.

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-07-2014 11:55am

Ata S. wrote: »

If the landlord (agent) wants, am I obliged to pay for the remaining 11 months of rent?

No, you will be liable for rent until they re-let the flat and reasonable expenses (i.e. cost of ad). You should also get your deposit back.

As an example, if you leave at the end of one week and they fill the place after two weeks with some extra costs, it could add up to the €600 you've already paid in rent and you will get your full deposit back. If not, you can take a case with the PRTB for unfair retention of the deposit.

On the other hand, you can let the landlord know you're leaving and find the replacement yourself and not be out of pocket for the re-letting costs. This is of course down to you as your sanity is on the line with sleep deprivation.

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 11:56am

What about this:

1. Consumer law gives you the right to cancel an order or a service within a cooling off period. This means you can return an item or cancel a service within 7 days of the date of conclusion of the contract. This right to cancel includes the right to the return of any deposit paid under the order contract or service contract. This provision applies regardless of what the terms and conditions of the agreement say, as it is amandatory provision.

justanswer.com/ireland-law/5ny5m-cooling-off-period-when-paying-deposit-even-when.html

chops018 · 07-07-2014 11:56am

You can give 35 days notice for terminating a tenancy that is less than a year.

You may lose your deposit though.

But, you can contest this with the PRTB.

Some useful links:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html#la1b6d

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html

http://www.prtb.ie/

H3llR4iser · 07-07-2014 11:58am

Ata S. wrote: »

If the landlord (agent) wants, am I obliged to pay for the remaining 11 months of rent?

I am afraid so...until the place is let again, or you transfer the let to somebody else.

On a less serious note, the noise wouldn't be too bad if not for the drunk shouters and the boy racer with a fartcan in the background

The_Morrigan · 07-07-2014 11:59am

Ata S. wrote: »

What about this:

1. Consumer law gives you the right to cancel an order or a service within a cooling off period. This means you can return an item or cancel a service within 7 days of the date of conclusion of the contract. This right to cancel includes the right to the return of any deposit paid under the order contract or service contract. This provision applies regardless of what the terms and conditions of the agreement say, as it is amandatory provision.

justanswer.com/ireland-law/5ny5m-cooling-off-period-when-paying-deposit-even-when.html

This doesn't apply to property law - you've been told this numerous times on the thread.
A lease agreement is not subject to a cooling off period, if it was, it would be contained in the lease.

TBH I'd be contacting the estate agent pronto on this if you actually want to make a move immediately, nobody here is going to be able to sort this out for you other than pointing you in the right direction - which they have already done.

Your options are as follows:
1) Contact the Estate Agent and tell them the property is not suitable and you wish to find someone to replace you and they will have to reassign the lease.
2) Contact the EA and tell them the property is not suitable and you wish to leave asap, can they find a replacement and give you back your deposit and any pro rata rent if applicable.

listermint · 07-07-2014 11:59am

I dont know this place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqmp6uJois

looks like its hopping for sunday though.

Where is it ?

Ata S. · 07-07-2014 12:01pm

listermint wrote: »

I dont know this place

youtube.com/watch?v=gHqmp6uJois

looks like its hopping for sunday though.

Where is it ?

Washington st., Cork.

My first night at my rental house, a nightmare! I only slept for 10 mins!

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