The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

rrs wrote: »

Armagh will be thereabouts. McGeeney going into his 6th year will want promotion. They have Oisin 0 Neill back after injury, he missed all of 2019. A great talent. They really should have beaten Cavan in the drawn game. Cavan played good stuff in the reply.
Cavan will be without McKiernan for half of the League because of operation No Caoimhin Reilly either.

Roscommon are down 5 or 6 for 2020. Diarmuid and Ciaran Murtagh in particular big losses.
Laois will struggle and Clare are without the 2 All Star nominated players from 2019. Brennan and Jamie Malone.

Not sure I’d agree with the comment re the Armagh game. They could have beaten Cavan, I don’t think they “should” have. My biggest memory of that game is Gearoid NcKiernan missing a 30 yard free that I know an U11 free taker would put over!

I was aware McKiernan would miss the League but we should still have enough without him. Meath had 12 good players last year and then a weak bench and 2 or 3 passengers starting like McEntee at midfield and Ben Brennan.

There’s a lot of negativity around Cavan at the moment but there are still quality players in the panel and others like Ryan Connolly who should be welcome additions.

I honestly think Mickey realised commitment was still an issue last year, after seeing some occurrences, like the sessions after the Mayo and Monaghan League games or the party bus after the Ulster final, and has decided that players are either ready to give 110% this year or they aren’t. If they aren’t, the door is there.

It is unfortunate too see players leave but, at the end of the day, these lads, as much as I’ve enjoyed watching them, had chances to progress in the qualifiers over the years (Derry in ‘16, Tipp in ‘17 for example) and failed.

rrs wrote: »

There is good players there. They might be 'quality to us in Cavan, but not outside it. How many quality players would you have picked from the Senior County final?Mackey the obvious one at 32. Castlerahan put up a poor effort in the Ulster Club,avd they were suppose to be fresh.

I think next year will be tough for Cavan, but would be nice if proved wrong..

Again, I wouldn’t agree. The county final was a poor game this year and Cavan teams do struggle at club level but our clubs have a small pick.

Donegal has a population of 160k and 40 clubs. Cavan has 76k population and 40 clubs. We’ve too many clubs for our population so it’s little wonder they don’t perform outside the county.

Naomh Chonaill had several established Donegal players. Castlerahan had Mackey and you could argue the two Flanagans but that is it.

A good club game doesn’t always carry itself through to county also, and the reverse. Did St Galls success previously help Antrim? Are Corofin aiding much of a Galway breakthrough? Mullinaghta won out Leinster - would Longford!?

Re quality players, the ones I’ve named are quality players IMO - Faulkner, McLoughlin, Smith, Brady, Murray and Reilly. Brady, for example, suffered with injuries last year but the Kerry crowd were raving about him in Breffni before he was ‘taken out’.

rrs wrote: »

Why are you bringing up the population of Donegal? NC had 3 days to prepare for the game and it was a poor effort from Castlerahan. Oisin Kieran has played for Cavan too. A few others like Fergak Reilly was on the panel before, and Paul Smith..

As for St Galls they are a duel cub and most of the better footballers would play hurling over football for Antrim.. Galway under a more attacking manager in Joyce might avail of the Corofin success. And no Longford wouldn't win Leinster, but neither would the other 10 since Dublin dominate Leinster
.
Martin Reilly and Faulkner are quality. The others found the level v Donegal and Tyrone a struggle.

I explained why the population was brought up. Cavan is operating 40 clubs off almost 100k less people than Donegal. Therefore Cavan clubs have a smaller pick. I wouldn't think it's that difficult to understand. It has been proven that population does effect the performance of county teams and the same is of course true about club teams. Is it a concidence that two of the most improving teams in Cavan, Castlerahan and Ramor, are two clubs in the east of the county based in towns with rapid population growth?

There are too many clubs in Cavan. You have Corlough operating off a school with less than 30 kids in it. You have Maghera operating on the cusps of Munterconnaught, Mountnugent and Ramor and unable to win a game. Is it sustainable for clubs in West Cavan to keep trying to battle on and continue to ignore the elephant in the room that the population is getting smaller and smaller? How can Templeport be expected to compete with a club like Cuchulainns moving into the future when Mullagh is rapidly expanding? Clubs need to start amalgamating, whether members like it or not.

Other than Kiernan and Mackey, none were panel members last year. It was a poor showing by them but then having a poor/good club championship doesn't overly effect your county team. As I've shown, there are various examples of that.

Most counties find the level vs Tyrone and Donegal a struggle. They are two of the top teams in the country for the past few years consistently. Management seem to think the team need to try and move to another level to compete and those committed to at least attempting that are still there.

Yevon wrote: »

It's difficult to put your finger on what the issue is in Cavan. Lads have come in for a year, broken onto the team, played in Croke Park, played in an Ulster final and then didn't come back. David Phillips, Fergal Reilly, Adrian Cole and now Conor Rehill. Why? These lads weren't jaded after dedicating their life to it for several years. All found themselves capable of playing at the top level or close to it and decided not to. Can the same be said for other teams in our position? I suppose Kildare is probably the most comparable county. Every other county around Division 1 in the last few years would probably have a provincial medal at some stage.

My belief would be three of the four you've mentioned there weren't asked in. Another county that have lost players over the years and would be comparable would be Meath. Paddy O'Rourke openly came out a few years back and said there was no point trying to compete with Dublin. Perhaps a few of the Cavan lads got a taste of that after the beatings from Donegal & Tyrone last year.

Others like Padraic Harnan and Donal Lenehan went travelling in recent years. This problem isn't just specific to Cavan.

rrs wrote: »

So forget about drinking Wednesday and Thursday and returning to training Friday. Donegal has a bigger population, so Castlerahan were up against...
If Castlerahan had 3 days preperation, and were facing NC with 3 weeks preparation, you might have a point


And going by Google the population of Ballyjameduff area is 2600...
Glenties is not even 1000..805 people

Castlerahan have 3 Meath players on the panel. Brian Ennis and 2 Kiernans.. Hardly a small remote club

If you want to start Googling, work away but you'd want to delve a bit deeper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.L.C.G._Naomh_Conaill

C.L.C.G. Naomh Conaill is a GAA club for the Glenties parish in south-west County Donegal. As well as the town of Glenties, the club also covers the area to the village of Fintown and the areas of Kilraine, The Glen and Maas down to the Gweebara Bridge. Much of this area lies within the Donegal Gaeltacht area. Martin Regan is the current football manager.

Fintown alone adds another 600 onto your figure, bringing it up to 1400 without accounting for the other areas named.

It's a Galeteacht area too, meaning participation in Gaelic games will be high.

Whereas you fail to mention from the Ballyjamesduff figure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballyjamesduff
''The town's population is diverse, with about 35% born outside of Ireland''.

I don't know much about the Glenties but I doubt it has a large meat factory which attracts a high number of skilled foreign workers.

Good to see though that Donegal must have long ago realised my point and instead of having a club for each small area, have encompassed several areas into one team like Naomh Chonaill. Whereas Ballyjamesduff will have a population in it that are playing for nearby clubs like Lavey, Denn and Mountnugent because its a large town. Castlerahan's numbers are high compared to clubs they are competing with in Cavan but low compared to other counties.

To be honest, repeatedly harping on about how poor Castlerahan were is a null point for me anyway. I've stated again and again I don't believe a good club championship and county side have to go hand in hand, or vice versa. How would you explain Mullahoran getting to the Ulster intermediate final last year?

Anyway, I think that's enough of the googling and time to get back to actually discussing Cavan Gaa.

rrs wrote: »

I was discussing Cavan Gaa. The Senior Club champions put in a lame effort against a team playing 3 days earlier. The Glenties team doctor even discussed his annoyance on off the ball, that the game was going ahead...

Mullahoran didn't get to the Ulster final last year. The Clubs need to compete at all grades with Senior the main. The population of mullineachta didn't stop them winning Leinster...

Not much point continuing this ''debate'' if you are just going to ignore half the points raised.

https://www.northernsound.ie/mullahoran-lose-ulster-intermediate-final/

Mullinaghta winning was a once in a blue moon occurrence which is why it was so widely celebrated. Are the Leinster club football champions normally paraded onto the Late Late!? And, again, did Longford make any gains from it at intercounty level?

The point still stand IMO, a good or bad club level does not necessarily affect your county team.

I think it would be fascinating to see a Kerry Style club championship kick of in Cavan.

Intermediate teams amalgamate for the senior Championship. It would mean players playing for the likes of Maghera would get the chance against the best.

Surely there's players on the county panel from intermediate or junior clubs who wouldn't get a place on a senior club team. Likewise there's lads in the junior championships would would walk into a county panel but can't because they lose every club game.

Think of a Maghera, MunterConnaught, Cuchulainns, Killenkare, team playing Ramor in the first round of the championship ?

It would surely shine a light on smaller clubs and players who maybe would never get the chance to step up

So we are Cavan are saying Mackey has retired at county level. It’s some shame, he’s been an absolute joy to watch. Was hoping for one more year for him to be an impact sub, but he can now out with pride. He owes the county nothing. A true servant and a class act on the pitch.

Also saying Thomas Galligan opted out. So that’s 6 starters from the Tyrone game no longer on the panel: McVeety, Clarke, Moynagh, Rehill, Mackey and Galligan.

Nevin O Donnell said in last week's Gaelic Life, he would like to play in Senior Championship, as part of an amalgamation. He is hardly the only one...
Just because clubs are proud to have their own club, doesn't mean an Amalgamation can't be tried at Senior too. Working the schedules would obviously be the issue

They tried Amalgamation about 8 years ago but wasn't poorly scheduled. Teams playing with their own club Thursday or Friday and amalgamation on Sunday.

I presume they run off Junior and maybe Intermediate in Kerry, before Senior. The Clubs are all proud of their district region there, East, West, South, Mid and North Kerry.. Those Clubs still represent Kerry well in Junior and Intermediate at Provincial level..

There was some poor quality games in the Senior Championship this year in Cavan A few amalgamation would improve it, If the right structure was in place. There is a long gap for clubs, some clubs finished end of August, with Leagues starting in April. Probably place for extra games.. If players and teams were willing.

Yevon wrote: »

Ah yes dismiss a hundred odd year history of a club in one sentence and tell them to close their doors and "move" their players (not sure how you expect a disbanded club to call the shots on where a player goes) I'm not sure where you're from but you obviously have no clue about what it's like in a club and a community that's struggling.

Fundraising is how community facilities are paid for (in addition to some grant funding etc) They're having no problem raising the money. I'm not suggesting that clubs are cash rich but they come up with fundraising targets and are hitting them. You can be amazed all you want but in your response you named out the ongoing developments in the county, proves what I'm saying. A lot of clubs have excellent facilities and more are finding the money to improve theirs.

You seem to be bitter about fundraising? Are you one of these lads who grumbles about the GAA when he's asked for 2 euro for a local lotto ticket? It's an excellent community driven practice and it's at the heart of what the GAA is about. Personally I'm happy to buy a ticket for any local cause as long as I can afford it. If you can't afford it or you want to keep your money in your pocket then nobody has a gun to your head.

You've just said yourself above that Corlough know the inevitable is coming. Why delay it any further? The history will still be there, memories as history is. Laragh and Stradone amalgamated into Laragh United but you'd still hear older generations reference Stradone.

I also didn't say I expected a disbanded club to call the shots but they either approach a separate club or talk to their players. Are you expecting Swad (who last time I seen them playing, their own supporters were laughing at some of the lads coming on, called out of 'retirement') to turn down a few new heads?

Yes, signing clubs up to 15 and 20 year loans is the way forward, is it? That's what most are doing. I didn't just mention pooling of funds either. I mentioned pooling of people resources. I've been coaching for years now in my club and you'd be amazed how many clubs are finding it hard to attract underage coaches, let alone committee members. Some clubs are having to call second AGMs or additional meetings to try and fill their committees.

Your last paragraph is just trying too hard to be dismissive and provocative - like you want to go into a dick measuring contest about who does the most for their local club. Let me assure you, I've played, coached and been on the executive committee of my club over the last 30 years - unfortunately, football started at U10 in my day!

I've also called to houses to sell tickets and had people ask me to call back next week because they've already had two clubs knock at their door that week with tickets that cost a lot more than a 2 euro lotto ticket. Perhaps you've had a different experience to me because you've never actually knocked on the doors of people to try and sell 20 or 25 euro tickets - see, two can play at the game of calling into question the other's character.

To be honest, you're attempting to go down a tabloid newspaper trash-throwing style approach now and I'd suggest that's left at the door or that you exercise your need for that approach on Twitter with the other trolls.

Attack the post, not the poster I believe is in the charter.

Maghera are in a disadvantage of being beside Ramor. The likes of Ado Cole, James McEnroe, Stephen Monaghan are from Maghera.. They wouldn't be a struggling Junior Club with those sort of players, but in same parish they are allowed..

Yevon wrote: »

I didn't imply anything, I asked you a direct question. You sound like one of those lads giving out about people calling to the door looking for you to buy tickets as if they can't refuse, we have them in my part of Cavan too.

Well we're definitely at odds with our view on underage players. I'd never help out at underage with the objective being a trophy. For me, it's about doing their best, getting them involved in their community, giving them confidence, being a positive influence in their lives. Trophy hunting wouldn't be my thing. Neither would amalgamating when you can't win by yourself. But each to their own.

I'm not looking to you for answers I'm looking to see if there's any substance behind your bluster. Setting up a committee and speaking to the clubs is flimsy to say the least. Amalgamations at underage come and go throughout the county, asking two clubs clubs to join at senior level is an entirely different prospect.

As for Corlough, you want me to justify their existence? I don't have to and neither do they. If the county board want to bring in rules that will drop them to reserve divisions or championships then so be it, but the Corlough club will decide when it's time to disband their senior team. That's not the job of the county board or people from Senior Clubs who look down their nose at struggling junior teams.

Again, you prefer to go down the trash talking route. Your question directly implies that I wouldn't have much dedication to GAA so you know exactly the route you are taking.

Yes, someone who is posting here over December and will be in Breffni tomorrow at the first McKenna Cup game and regularly posted on here about the club championship when there were weeks when the place was like a ghost town, wouldn't buy a 2 euro lotto ticket!

Did I say the sole objective was a trophy? I said I'd like to think the players one day have a chance of success which, at the end of the day, is what every player strives for. It's a competitive sport from U13 on. I know of one club where the chairman sat as many parents as he could down at an AGM style meeting where he wanted it decided once and for all - are we about getting everyone on the pitch or about being competitive with our underage teams. The meeting went on for 4 to 5 hours but eventually the decision was to play the best team, regardless of getting lads on the pitch.

Setting up a committee is a start at least. The county board need to look at the rapidly changing demographics. The Eastern side of the county is now part of the commuter belt. The population is going to continue to grow, particularly if we ever get the much needed bypass of Virginia.

You do sound like a lad who has never attended a club meeting though. You expect the club to make the decision themselves - I've seen club meetings go on for hours over fickle items like bingo rotas.

The county board need to provide leadership on the issue. That's their job. Like I've said, the gains from consolidating teams would be huge - better facilities, better support for teams, better revenue streams, better competition overall and more manpower available.

From reading your posts though, I don't believe you are involved enough at ground level to see the problems even senior clubs are having. Nobody is looking down their nose at Corlough, or any other club, but what is the point of prolonging the inevitable? A question I asked, and like most of my other points, you have chosen to ignore.

Yevon wrote: »

Do you want to debate the issue or just keep harping on about how dedicated you are? Training under 10s, selling lotto tickets, going to McKenna Cup games, posting on Cavan internet forums etc etc. You're involved in the GAA, we get it, so are most people on this forum it's not notable or special.

You're pontificating about the clubs in West Cavan in particular that are struggling but you obviously have no clue of the mindset of the clubs and the people down there. The county board are the big bad wolf who never cared about anything that went on past Belturbet and an approach to tell the clubs of West Cavan to shut up shop or amalgamate will be met with a firm middle finger. It's a survival instinct that even the undoubted genius your county board committee isn't going to quell.

I have answered your question on what the point of prolonging the inevitable is: There is no point to it. The same way as there is no point in most things in life that have a natural conclusion. I have an old dog that i'm fond of, he'll probably not too much longer but i'm not reaching for the shotgun.

Your attitude stinks of elitism. Train the U13s so they can win trophies, leave the weaker kids on the sideline, create super clubs so they can produce county players, make the small clubs join up because they're small and struggling and that isn't to your taste, focus on a club's 'revenue streams'.
Soulless and absolutely clueless about the real meaning of the GAA. You'd fit right in with the lads running the GAA at the top level.

I’d prefer to debate the issue but there’s no point in continually questioning my dedication to the GAA and then complaining when I counter that. If you don’t want me to harp on about my involvement, don’t question it. The problem that you created is therefore solved. Do you understand basic debating?

If you note, I have spoken about clubs from both East and West. I’ve actually pointed to both Maghera and Corlough needing to amalgamate, one from the East and one from the West, because they are the two most extreme examples who are actually diminishing the entire junior championship - is it fair that a team will lose out on a QF place to another team on score difference because they had the luxury of playing either of those two teams? There are plenty of other clubs that could also amalgamate in both East, West and even central Cavan - Drumalee, for example.

Again, you seem incapable of actually reading and comprehending my points. Where did I say anything about leaving weaker kids on the sidelines? I said a club had opted to take that approach, not my own. I also never said it was my approach.
I don’t see how it is elitist to want a pooling of people resources when clubs are struggling for volunteers. Most clubs should have at least four trainers with each age grouping to make it viable. Other than the large town teams, you’ll find very few clubs managing that. But I guess it’s elitist to want the best for young players when it comes to coaching.
I guess it’s elitist to think why should Billy and Joe play together for Munterconnaught Macfinns for years and probably together for Virginia College, go to Cul Camp each year together, but then have to split from each other to play senior football?

You seem to be stuck with a Darby O’Gill and the Little People, Oirish style view of the GAA. Things are moving on. You’ve clubs going out and taking out large loans and pitches and the areas around them are becoming sporting hubs for communities with running tracks, playgrounds,3G pitches and cryo spas. Some clubs are nearly like commercial entities because they need to generate this funding - you earlier said funding isn’t an issue but go and ask your local club about that. Again, you seem disconnected from the actual reality of the problems at grassroots level.
You might see all this as “elitist” but it’s reality.

Yevon wrote: »

Ah yes dismiss a hundred odd year history of a club in one sentence and tell them to close their doors and "move" their players (not sure how you expect a disbanded club to call the shots on where a player goes) I'm not sure where you're from but you obviously have no clue about what it's like in a club and a community that's struggling.

Fundraising is how community facilities are paid for (in addition to some grant funding etc) They're having no problem raising the money. I'm not suggesting that clubs are cash rich but they come up with fundraising targets and are hitting them. You can be amazed all you want but in your response you named out the ongoing developments in the county, proves what I'm saying. A lot of clubs have excellent facilities and more are finding the money to improve theirs.

You seem to be bitter about fundraising? Are you one of these lads who grumbles about the GAA when he's asked for 2 euro for a local lotto ticket? It's an excellent community driven practice and it's at the heart of what the GAA is about. Personally I'm happy to buy a ticket for any local cause as long as I can afford it. If you can't afford it or you want to keep your money in your pocket then nobody has a gun to your head.

Mod Warning

Deviating off the point of discussion in order to attack a fellow poster is not permitted under the forum charter.In a similar vein backseat moderation is not permitted (post #5805).

"Attack the post, not the poster I believe is in the charter."

A civil discussion without any further personalised attacks going forward is more than welcome.Otherwise sanctions will be applied if necessary.

Armagh have named a strong enough team. The other Counties, Monaghan, Derry, etc have named their team and 26. Cavan reveal nothing, until you see the program with about 7 changes from original team..