Can't rehome a dog from Dogs Trust because we work

F-Stop · 14-11-2010 12:24am #1

We decided to head to Dogs Trust today to take a look, find out what the procedure was for rehoming, but not really planning on getting a new dog just yet.

We took a look around, filled out the form, and then had a few questions. One of the staff members came to talk to us, and was very friendly and helpful. It turns out that because we both work and that any potential dogs would be outside while we are at work (from about 07:00 to 15:30 four days a week) that we aren't suitable for giving a rescue dog a new home.

I was a bit surprised. We're offering a good home where any dog would be loved and cared for and would free up one or two places for other dogs to find a new home. OK, for a third of the day they would be outside, but for the other two thirds they would be either inside with us or... outside going for walks.

Yes, ideally this wouldn't be the situation, but ideally I'd win the lottery and ideally I wouldn't have to go to work everyday. I am confused about the claim that they have rehomed 1,000 dogs in the past year; is it just that people are lying on their form in order to rehome. I can provide a good loving home for one or two dogs, but by being honest I cannot 'pass'.

By the way, this post isn't intended to bash Dog's Trust. I have a lot of respect for them and all the rescue charities and volunteers. They all do great work. It just seems to me that this decision is counter productive to their ends; I'd rather rehome a rescue dog than resort to a dogdy donedeal ad.

TooManyDogs · 14-11-2010 12:43am

Why not head out to Dogs Aid? They're only a few miles from Dogs Trust and judge each person on a case by case basis. Maybe they wouldnt give you a border collie type dog if you work nearly full time but there are plenty of dogs that would suit you and they'll match one for you.

maringo · 14-11-2010 12:48am

That seems to be a ridiculous rule with so many animals needing a good home. I have had pets over many years while working. They all lived to be a ripe old age and I think they enjoyed their lives. In an ideal world we could be with our pets 24/7 but however we live in the real world with the need to earn a living. I never found any problems - my cat and dog were company for each other - they seemed quite happy while I was at work and were well fed and very much loved. Loneliness might be a problem if you had only one pet but I think once they have a companion and their comforts they are quite contented.

Graces7 · 14-11-2010 9:05am

It is the "outside" part that would worry me, frankly. Inside is where our dogs are whenever we are out. Safe and away from bad weather and thieves.

MyKeyG · 14-11-2010 9:14am

Graces7 wrote: »

It is the "outside" part that would worry me, frankly. Inside is where our dogs are whenever we are out. Safe and away from bad weather and thieves.

Yeah me too. I'm 100% against dogs being left outside when we're out but that's a personal thing it's still an odd reason not to give a dog a home.

Dogs are usually well behaved but if you were worried about it making a mess then is there an area of the house that you could restrict the dog to such as the kitchen and close the doors to living/bed rooms or carpeted areas?

Graces7 · 14-11-2010 9:18am

MyKeyG wrote: »

Yeah me too. I'm 100% against dogs being left outside when we're out but that's a personal thing it's still an odd reason not to give a dog a home.

Dogs are usually well behaved but if you were worried about it making a mess then is there an area of the house that you could restrict the dog to such as the kitchen and close the doors to living/bed rooms or carpeted areas?

Too many dogs in Ireland are left out chained up.... Hence maybe the rule. And yes to all you say. we could never leave our dogs unsecure when we are out-period.

And we have never come home to a mess of any kind.

F-Stop · 14-11-2010 12:47pm

I appreciate all your replies and opinions.

Firstly, I would never chain a dog up.

My preference would be to restrict a dog less rather than more. My view, and it is just my opinion, is that there is far more to stimulate a dog mentally being outside where there are ever changing smells and noises and things to investigate. As long as there is a reasonable standard of comfort, then that seems a lot less boring than being restricted to a single room indoors. Of course this isn't a hard and fast rule that the dog can only ever be inside when I am home and cases such as extreme weather or illness would be obvious exceptions.

Also, I am not concerned about returning home to a mess, though I'd find it difficult to reconcile training a dog to know that it is wrong to go to the toilet inside and then removing all other options for it.

Again, the above are just my opinions and I am open to changing them, especially if it can be shown that leaving a dog outside during the day is detrimental to its wellbeing. Perhaps I am missing something, or I am a horrible monster and unaware of it, but I still think it is strange to find it preferable to deny a dog a caring home where it will get lots of love and attention based on this criteria. I am still baffled by how they can be rehoming 20 dogs a week as my situation is not unique, but I suppose ultimately the good thing is that they are rehoming them.

ppink · 14-11-2010 1:40pm

OP did they do a home check at all?

portgirl123 · 14-11-2010 1:42pm

my worry about a dog been left outside all day would be the chance of him/her been stolen. Maybe this is one of their reasons. im not saying i agree with them just thinking why it could be. did u ask them why?

F-Stop · 14-11-2010 2:07pm

ppink wrote: »

OP did they do a home check at all?

No, didn't get to that stage.

Graces7 · 14-11-2010 3:14pm

F-Stop wrote: »

I appreciate all your replies and opinions.

Firstly, I would never chain a dog up.

My preference would be to restrict a dog less rather than more. My view, and it is just my opinion, is that there is far more to stimulate a dog mentally being outside where there are ever changing smells and noises and things to investigate. As long as there is a reasonable standard of comfort, then that seems a lot less boring than being restricted to a single room indoors. Of course this isn't a hard and fast rule that the dog can only ever be inside when I am home and cases such as extreme weather or illness would be obvious exceptions.

Also, I am not concerned about returning home to a mess, though I'd find it difficult to reconcile training a dog to know that it is wrong to go to the toilet inside and then removing all other options for it.

Again, the above are just my opinions and I am open to changing them, especially if it can be shown that leaving a dog outside during the day is detrimental to its wellbeing. Perhaps I am missing something, or I am a horrible monster and unaware of it, but I still think it is strange to find it preferable to deny a dog a caring home where it will get lots of love and attention based on this criteria. I am still baffled by how they can be rehoming 20 dogs a week as my situation is not unique, but I suppose ultimately the good thing is that they are rehoming them.

Would this, please, be your first dog? So much of this is caring, but as many have said in other threads, dogs are not people. So words like "boring" do not necessarily apply. YOU are the dog's real stimulus and most seem to sleep when you are out.

it is often a case of safety simply and we would be wary of rehoming a dog in this kind of circumstance.

NO WAY would we ever leave our dogs anywhere but safe indoors; they are after all our most precious "possessions".

As for toilet training. That was my only real worry when we brought collie indoors and never a problem. She first slept in the back porch and in fact would "tidy" any leaves etc into a corner.

mosi · 14-11-2010 4:17pm

From the Dogs Trust website rehoming criteria:

"The majority of our adult dogs are homed as house pets and we prefer them
not to be kept kennelled outside on a permanent basis. However the wellbeing of the dog is our principle concern and we do on occasion look to
rehome dogs that may have a history of previously living outdoors. If this is
the case then a home visit will determine if the outdoor accommodation is of a sufficient standard. The dog must never be kept on a tether/chain and the use of electric fences is not acceptable."

"Puppies will not be rehomed to live outside."

Thw site mentions nothing about working hours etc., so I would guess that the fact that you intend to leave the dog outside when you are not there is the main issue.

Many smaller types do better inside (as long as they are given adequate walks etc), while a rescue greyhound will be the ultimate couch potato. Maybe you should consider getting a dog that is suitable for indoor living and, if you are concerned, you could get a dog walker to come and take him/her out while you are at work.

planetX · 14-11-2010 4:42pm

F-Stop wrote: »

I appreciate all your replies and opinions.

Firstly, I would never chain a dog up.

My preference would be to restrict a dog less rather than more. My view, and it is just my opinion, is that there is far more to stimulate a dog mentally being outside where there are ever changing smells and noises and things to investigate. As long as there is a reasonable standard of comfort, then that seems a lot less boring than being restricted to a single room indoors. Of course this isn't a hard and fast rule that the dog can only ever be inside when I am home and cases such as extreme weather or illness would be obvious exceptions.

Also, I am not concerned about returning home to a mess, though I'd find it difficult to reconcile training a dog to know that it is wrong to go to the toilet inside and then removing all other options for it.

Again, the above are just my opinions and I am open to changing them, especially if it can be shown that leaving a dog outside during the day is detrimental to its wellbeing. Perhaps I am missing something, or I am a horrible monster and unaware of it, but I still think it is strange to find it preferable to deny a dog a caring home where it will get lots of love and attention based on this criteria. I am still baffled by how they can be rehoming 20 dogs a week as my situation is not unique, but I suppose ultimately the good thing is that they are rehoming them.

I think it's a mistake to assume that it's less boring for a dog to be outside. Your dog will be sleeping and waiting for you to come home, and the least stressful and safest place to do that is inside. My dog would be very distressed by being left outside all day, would probably be barking or whining non-stop, and as others have mentioned there is a big risk of theft - doesn't matter if it's a mutt, there are people who will take any dog. Even when I'm at home my dog doesn't enjoy being in the garden on her own, the pack is everything and you are your dogs pack leader, and the house is your packs den.

Whispered · 14-11-2010 4:55pm

planetX wrote: »

I think it's a mistake to assume that it's less boring for a dog to be outside. Your dog will be sleeping and waiting for you to come home, and the least stressful and safest place to do that is inside. My dog would be very distressed by being left outside all day, would probably be barking or whining non-stop, and as others have mentioned there is a big risk of theft - doesn't matter if it's a mutt, there are people who will take any dog. Even when I'm at home my dog doesn't enjoy being in the garden on her own, the pack is everything and you are your dogs pack leader, and the house is your packs den.

+1

OP I can see how you'd think this to be the case but it's usually not. Within a few hours they will have explored their garden completly and then just wait for you to come home. The same as they would in their kitchen.

My fella hates to be in the garden on his own, but just accepts if we do put him out for a few hours every now and then. He loves it though if we are out with him and spends hours sun bathing if we're sitting out. As soon as we go in, he prefers to be in too.

andrewire · 14-11-2010 5:07pm

I agree with the OP. Such a stupid rule and so many dogs in need of loving families. What's best? To put dogs down because of a silly rule or to give dogs to families that will take care of them? In this day and age, who can afford to be at home all day? If your garden is secure, leaving a dog outside for a few hours is not a problem, as long as you can provide them with a good dog kennel or shelter.

Discodog · 14-11-2010 7:31pm

I can see both sides of the argument. I do not have a secure garden & I work. My three dogs live in the house & get two good walks every day. So I could not rehome from some rescues.

However I can understand that organisations have to set some basic rules. Anyone who rescues will tell you that their biggest concern is that a dog goes to a good home. Many of the dogs in rescues have had an upsetting time & it is essential for their future that they have a settled new life.

The Dogs Trust rehome about 16,000 dogs per year with 1000 being rehomed this year in Ireland. That's a staggering 40 rehomes per day !. Their rehoming "rules" are based on a vast amount of experience. It is understandable that such a huge organisation has some inflexibility.

Many smaller local rescues may have no problem with your working but I suspect that the "outside" aspect will be the concern. Dogs do not need constant stimulation. Like all of of us they need some chill time. Being outside is hugely exciting especially when you bear in mind a dogs heightened sense of smell & hearing. But you may not be aware that your dog is barking all day, getting soaked, getting cold, killing a neighbours cat or being injured etc etc. Being indoors doesn't give total protection but it is much safer. My three dogs (two big & one medium) take up little space. I have set up a camera, in the past, & they happily sleep all day on a big warm, cosy bed.

Cork24 · 15-11-2010 12:24am

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/1597971

Makes me Sick.... "Selling to acquire new bloodline."

Cant Stand people Selling dogs over 1 years Old!! OK. if they go an Husky not knowing how to look after him then they shouldn't have dogs at all.. it doesn't take 2 Seconds to do a Google Search on the Dog you looking at!! and maybe then you think twice about a F**CKing dog..

i had 3 dogs but now have 2 after one had to be put down due to Cancer. and both are well looked after would never sell them.

I also have them neutered so any Dirty K****er wont take them as they are no good for dog Farms..

If you going to get a dog for Rehome do. We all work. whats Stopping you from getting up @ 6 Am and go for a 45 Min walk with him, and leave him out the back come home and go for another walk with the dog..

sionnaic · 15-11-2010 12:26am

I had the same experience with Dogs Trust. We went in and filled out the form and as soon as we told them we both worked full time that was that. We weren't even to be considered as potential adopters. To be honest the girl speaking to us made us feel like we were animal abusers or something. We might as well have told her we want a dog to chain up to a barrel and use for a spot of dog fighting. (as I type my little rescue dog adopted from another charity is sleeping curled up beside me on the sofa). Fair enough they want the absolute best outcome for their rescued dogs, and I've no problem with that except to say I think a lot of dogs may lose out on good homes because of such a narrow view. It's a laudable if impractical principle. But don't make me feel like something you scraped off your shoe for suggesting that I could have dogs as well as work.

To be honest we thought it was a bit suspect that a charity could afford a big snazzy new building with a huge plush office and reception area but yet have posters up appealing for bedding for their kennels. Surely dog bedding should have had higher priority than office chairs and fancy staff facilities? Anyway, maybe my bad experience there is making me cynical! It's just when I compare that setup and obvious supporting cash flow with the struggles of smaller rescues like ASH I can't help thinking Dogs Trust must waste a lot of money which could have saved more animals.

Fluorescence · 15-11-2010 12:41am

When we were at DogsTrust today the first thing we were asked as we handed in our application was if the dog would ever be left alone (which would rarely happen - there's nearly always someone at home in our house). I felt like the tone they used with us was quite accusatory, like this:

sionnaic wrote:

To be honest the girl speaking to us made us feel like we were animal abusers or something

It seems like it's all too easy for an animal to be abandoned to a shelter but very difficult to adopt one. With the amount of pets being euthanised across the country for lack of space it seems a bit odd to me

. Surely someone who is willing to give a dog a loving home and is able to meet its needs shouldn't have such difficulty? As another poster said, giving the dog 2 walks a day, one before work and one after, should satisfy the dog's need for exercise and companionship.

Discodog · 15-11-2010 1:11am

The Dogs Trust chose to impose conditions & that is their prerogative. They will take 1000 dogs off of the PTS figure this year which is an amazing number. All of their money comes from donations & most of it from the UK.

They are not here to please people but to save dogs & they are doing a pretty good job. They chose to spend €10 million in Ireland to help with our problem & I think that they should be commended.

There are loads of rescues that have more flexible rules. It is not difficult to take a rescue & you cannot blame any rescue from imposing conditions on who takes one of it's dogs. Imagine if you had to find a home for your own dog & how choosy you would be.

I have read through their homing policy & I agree that it is not specific regarding someone being at home all day. I will email them & post some clarification.

dvet · 15-11-2010 1:29am

Wow... so the implication seems to be that if you ever leave your dog at home alone, you're not a suitable dog owner? Surely the vast majority of dog owners have to leave their dogs alone for at least a few hours every day.... Unless the adults in the household are all unemployed, or retired? Or maybe the OP was right about people just lying on their application forms? Otherwise the mind boggles as to where these 1,000 new homes a year coming from - Ireland is not that big a place!

Anyway, there are plenty of reasons why a person may be unsuitable to own a dog but I DON'T consider this to be one. If your dog is in a secure, safe and confortable environment (whether that be indoors or outdoors), has adequate food/water/stimulation, enough room, as well as being walked twice a day, I don't see the problem with them being at home alone sometimes. Except maybe if they are rehoming a dog with severe seperation anxiety issues or some exception like that?!

I imagine though, as Discodog said, the reason the rules are so inflexible is because the Dogs Trust is such a huge organisation... i.e. that they can't really look into new homes on a case by case basis so they just use blanket rules which are not allowed to be broken.

The Dogs Trust is a fantastic charity and does great work, both in their rehoming centre, and with their neutering schemes/subsidisation of vet bills. It's just sad that rules of this must be keeping so many potentially great owners from rehoming dogs.

F-Stop · 15-11-2010 1:34am

Graces7 wrote: »

Would this, please, be your first dog?

No, certainly not. I've grown up with dogs in my family all my life as has my girlfriend. My last dog was put to sleep recently after 8 great years with us. We got him from the pound on day 5 when he was 6 and he was a nervous wreck for the first few weeks and would hide under the couch whenever anyone new came into the room. But with a lot of attention and care he soon came to not just trust us but anyone who came into the house.

He was one of the smartest dogs I've ever had, he not only knew what phrases and words referred to, but he got concepts; if you told him to take a treat into his bed he would decide if that meant the rug in front of the fire, his actually bed, the mat in front of the door or outside to his kennel, but never anywhere else.

He slept indoors at night, and stayed outside during the day while we were at work. He hated to be in the house on his own. Sometimes I would leave him in when the weather was particularly bad and would come home to hear him howling as if the gates of hell had opened. When we were home we'd leave the back door open and he'd often wander out and go to sleep under his favourite tree or on the manhole cover on the patio to soak up the heat.

He followed my girlfriend around all the time and I truly believe he thought she hung the sun in the sky. It was heartbreaking yesterday when she came down with tears in her eyes because she'd been changing the sheets on the beds and that used to be one of their little rituals when he would curl up on the old duvet covers as they were tossed on the floor.

He was sane, well mannered and well behaved, and very well cared for. The last few months of his life were very hard on us, but he was a trooper. We had weekly visits to the vet as old age got the better of him. Arthritis, a failing heart and a tumor in his head all ganged up on him. He could no longer follow us around upstairs and had to be carried and even lifted onto the couch. As he got worse we started bringing him upstairs to sleep on the bed at night. As his heart started to fail he started to have seizures. We'd wake up in the middle of the night with him on the bed spasming and throwing up. The next day we'd bring him to the vet. We had him put to sleep before he lost it all - while he still knew us, and was alert and still had wags in his tail. It was the hardest thing in the world to do, but it was the right thing to do for Oz.

we would be wary of rehoming a dog in this kind of circumstance

Any one we've talked to who knows us and knew Oz finds the situation laughably absurd. We're not brilliant, we're not perfect, but we can provide a dog that needs a home with a really good home.

F-Stop · 15-11-2010 1:39am

Discodog wrote: »

The Dogs Trust chose to impose conditions & that is their prerogative. They will take 1000 dogs off of the PTS figure this year which is an amazing number. All of their money comes from donations & most of it from the UK.

I just want to reiterate what I said in my first post that the point of this thread is not to bash Dogs Trust. As Discodog says, what they do is fantastic and has made life a lot better for a lot of dogs. I do understand that they have rehoming criteria. I just hadn't come across this and to me it seemed counter productive to their cause, and was hoping for some insight.

Toulouse · 15-11-2010 9:43am

I think you'll find that alot of rescue organisations do have the same criteria, I certainly don't think it's anything unusual.

However this can usually be overcome if one of you can pop home for lunch or if not by employing a dog walker so that the dog isn't on it's own for 8 hours a day. OP would this be a goer?

Discodog · 15-11-2010 10:21am

The commitment of the Dogs Trust can be illustrated by the fact that I emailed their UK CEO at 1 am last night & had a reply by 8am. The DT in Ireland are still new & I would suspect that they are evolving. They could never rehome 16,000 dogs per year if people thought that they were too selective. Mark Beazley, the Director at DT Dublin, will be made aware of the negative comments here to see if they are indicative of a bigger problem.

"Our policy is that each dog is an individual and each home is individual. It’s our job to try and match the two. Having said that it would be most unlikely that we would allow a young dog to go to a family who are out at work all day and where no-one comes to exercise the dog and keep it company but we would certainly consider an older dog. We are so very grateful to people offering homes to the dogs that we would be crazy to turn people away on a whim. I will let Mark Beazley know about the comments.

Some years ago we did some research to find out why people didn’t come to rescues to rehome a dog. Their main fear was that they were “dark, dirty, dingy and some even called them death camps” . At that stage we said we had to build to make it a pleasant experience for the people as well as a comfortable “home from home” for the dogs. In the last 12 months over 1,000 dogs have gone to homes in Ireland."

Clarissa Baldwin CEO Dogs Trust.

Clarissa is a bit of a legend in dog welfare. She joined the DT 36 years ago, was awarded an OBE in 2003 & came up with the Dog is not just for Christmas tag.

harr · 15-11-2010 10:54am

i dont know what the big deal is about dogs having to stay outside,i have 3 dogs 2 pets and one gun dog the gun dog rarely sees the inside of the house and the 2 pets only get in late in the evening.i have friends who keep there dogs in the house 24/7 surely this is not good for a dog.i have a large walled garden and the dogs love been outside and they wont sleep inside even last winter i tried to let them sleep in side and they would have none of it.they are well locked after with a walk every day and regular visits to the vets.i think they should have done a home visit before they decided the op was not fit to re home a dog.no dog needs to be in the house or too have some by there side 24/7.

sbsquarepants · 15-11-2010 11:18am

I've had dog's my whole life, more or less. They have always lived outside, they're dogs, not people! Once they have a proper shelter or kennel with a dry warm bed, they are absolutely fine. There are more and more people treating dogs as if the are humans these days, they aren't. Will the dog be left alone? WTF! No dog if you both work? What bullsh'it. So only the rich and the unemployed can have a dog now? This is absolute nonsense. All our dogs were perfectly healthy and happy without any of this molly coddling rubbish or 24 hour supervision. The world is gone mad!

Toulouse · 15-11-2010 11:28am

I think the main reason for this criteria is that in all the years of experience that Dog's Trust have you can be sure that for every one dog that was fine outside on it's own for the day you probably had 5 that escaped and got knocked down, escaped and chased sheep, escaped and scared a neighbours kid or tore the garden apart with boredom and bounced back to rescue. Then there are the ones who were difficult to train as there was no-one home alot and the others that developed behavioural problems.

These criteria are here for a reason and while there might be homes out there where it would work leaving a dog on it's own during the day there are vastly more where it would not.

I personally would not leave my dog alone all day, she's just not cut out for it. I tried it a couple of times but it wasn't doing her any good and so I came up with an alternative which meant there was someone with her for most of the day.

Graces7 · 15-11-2010 2:33pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I've had dog's my whole life, more or less. They have always lived outside, they're dogs, not people! Once they have a proper shelter or kennel with a dry warm bed, they are absolutely fine. There are more and more people treating dogs as if the are humans these days, they aren't. Will the dog be left alone? WTF! No dog if you both work? What bullsh'it. So only the rich and the unemployed can have a dog now? This is absolute nonsense. All our dogs were perfectly healthy and happy without any of this molly coddling rubbish or 24 hour supervision. The world is gone mad!

What an intolerant and inflexible post. Dogs mean different things to different people and that is fine. This has always been so; look at the Old Masters and see the wee dogs there.

No one here is treating dogs like humans. Nor is keeping them safe and inside mollycoddling. GEE! REALLY!

Dogs Trust are ultra careful is all, and that is great. And as others have said, there are plenty of other rescue centres. And each has the right to lay down its own conditions.

kylith · 15-11-2010 2:49pm

I'd recommend trying some of the other rescues. I was up front with the fact that I work full time and the rescue was happy to rehome two dogs to me so that they'd be company for each other when I'm out, so not everywhere's as stringent as DT.

seamus · 15-11-2010 2:52pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Dogs Trust are ultra careful is all, and that is great.

This is the thing. Any of the rescues who actually care about rehoming dogs tend to be very strict on their rehoming policies, based on what most people are like.

Because they don't know you. On paper, you may look identical to another couple - same working hours, same environment, etc. But while you may look after the dog, the other couple might chain it up outside and not bother to walk it when they get home in the evening because they too tired. The rescue organisations can't see into your soul to tell if you're a suitable candidate, all they can do is assess you against the average and then err on the side of caution when rehoming the dog.

If they find that the majority of dogs rehomed to full-time workers end up coming back in (or being sold on), then they'll simply stop rehoming dogs to people who work full time. It's terribly black-and-white, but if you have a better solution...

Graces7 · 15-11-2010 2:54pm

Re-reading the OP; maybe the title is misleading. It was not that the OP worked but that they planned to leave the dog OUTSIDE when they were at work.

That is a very different thing from being out those hours and the dog being INSIDE.

Tranceypoo · 15-11-2010 3:51pm

OP, one rescue centre that judges each case individually is Madra, who are based in Connemara, www.madra.ie , they would do a homecheck and go through certain criteria with you first before approving you or turning you down.

kopfan77 · 15-11-2010 5:07pm

Just like people, each dog is different so I think it is a bit blinkered to say that all dogs should not be left outside

I have 2 german shepherds and if they are inside at anytime for more than 30-45 mins they start to pant and want to go back out. They are outdoor working dogs and outdoor is where THEY want to be...they are not designed to be an indoor dog. It is a fine balancing act and it is important that whether a dog spends the majority of its time indoors or outdoors that it gets attention, stimilus, the necessary shelter etc. While I appreciate that there are some people who will NEVER agree with my opinion that some dogs are outdoor only dogs, my two could not be happier. They have the dog equivalent of houses that should be on MTV cribs, plenty of space to run around and play, and most importantly a secure garden from which people can not get at them (to be stolen) or from which they cannot get out.
They are loved dogs and that has nothing to do with whether they are indoors or outdoor.
OP, my own take on things are that the timeframe for which the dogs would be on their own rather than whether they would be on their own inside or outside is the problem for the society in question

F-Stop · 15-11-2010 5:51pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Re-reading the OP; maybe the title is misleading. It was not that the OP worked but that they planned to leave the dog OUTSIDE when they were at work.

That is a very different thing from being out those hours and the dog being INSIDE.

I don't think it is misleading. If I didn't have a job, or could work from home all the time the dog/s would be inside with me. It was the question of hours away from the dog that was the issue. She asked could we leave them inside and I said I could be I would consider it unfair on the dog. I work from home some days and at those times the dog would be indoors with me. My partner teaches and is off for midterms and three months during summer and at those times the dog would be indoors with her. We also expressed an interest in getting two dogs who got on as they would provide company for each other. More often than not the dogs would be indoors.

There are 8,760 hours in a year. I work roughly 1,000 hours away from home per year. Less the summer months when my partner is home comes to 750 hours per year that the dogs would be outside. That averages out as about 14 and half hours per week over a year. Sure, as I said originally this is not ideal, but is it reason enough to deny a dog a good loving home?

The email quoted by Discodog sounds reasonable, but does not match our experience.

"Our policy is that each dog is an individual and each home is individual. It’s our job to try and match the two. Having said that it would be most unlikely that we would allow a young dog to go to a family who are out at work all day and where no-one comes to exercise the dog and keep it company but we would certainly consider an older dog. We are so very grateful to people offering homes to the dogs that we would be crazy to turn people away on a whim.

There was no mention of a dog walker or dog sitter or of getting an older dog. We were asked if we could drop in at lunch time and unfortunately this is not possible. The question of whether we could drop in at lunch and leave the dog/s outside was never broached therefore.

Basically there was no consideration of our home at all, and certainly no real effort to match any dog. While I wouldn't say we were turned away on a whim, it certainly didn't match their policy as posted above. And if indeed they operate as Seamus and Toulouse say above, then that is against their policy as stated in the email to Discodog. Sure they have to be careful, but we didn't even get to the stage of a homecheck which I assume is as much about the people as the home and garden. Nor did they make any further enquiries about our history with dogs except for asking if we ever had one.

Discodog · 15-11-2010 7:04pm

The DT in Dublin are still new & probably finding their feet as to how to operate best here. I suspect that some of their procedures will be influenced by Mark Beazley's experiences as CEO of the ISPCA before he joined the DT.

I also suspect that a lot of the dogs that end up in the DT were kept outdoors. I fully accept that there are responsible owners who choose to keep the dog outdoors but there are also many who chain the dog 24/7.
I will also bet that cruelty is more likely in a home where the dog is kept outdoors.

The DT are not so used to outdoor dog keeping as it is a relative rarity in the UK. Their current policy may seem too rigid but their rehoming figures are pretty good. If anything were to happen to me the only place that I would want my dogs to go to would be the DT. At least I could relax knowing that my dogs would not end up outside or neglected.

As Seamus pointed out everyone is just another potential rehomer so maybe it is natural for the DT to be cautious if someone wants to keep a dog outdoors.

noodler · 15-11-2010 7:12pm

I am going to come across very mean here and maybe I don't fully understand.

First of all, we live in a nice cul de sac which is well fenced and the dog doesn't need to be chained therefore.

So, does nobody else subscribe to the idea that animals should generally be outside?

Our dog is outside a fair amount of the day (not tied I stress) because it was either that when we found her or leave it in the hands of some overworked dog agency.

Is there something I am missing about the Dog's Trust? Are these previously abused dogs or what?

Discodog · 15-11-2010 7:27pm

Any dog that ends up in a rescue may of suffered. The truth is that no one knows. The DT take dogs from the Pounds & other rescues etc. They are no different to any other rescue dog & vary just as much.

Vets refer to dogs as "companion animals" & it is a mutual companionship in that both the dog & owner benefit. There is far more likelihood of a dog being ignored if it is kept outdoors. Right now I know of a 10 week terrier pup that will spend all evening & night alone, in a box, in a shed. To me this is cruelty & would be in most Countries that have proper animal welfare legislation but here it is perfectly legal. Even worse there are plenty of people here who would regard it as perfectly acceptable.

Graces7 · 15-11-2010 7:30pm

F-Stop wrote: »

I don't think it is misleading. If I didn't have a job, or could work from home all the time the dog/s would be inside with me. It was the question of hours away from the dog that was the issue. She asked could we leave them inside and I said I could be I would consider it unfair on the dog. I work from home some days and at those times the dog would be indoors with me. My partner teaches and is off for midterms and three months during summer and at those times the dog would be indoors with her. We also expressed an interest in getting two dogs who got on as they would provide company for each other. More often than not the dogs would be indoors.

There are 8,760 hours in a year. I work roughly 1,000 hours away from home per year. Less the summer months when my partner is home comes to 750 hours per year that the dogs would be outside. That averages out as about 14 and half hours per week over a year. Sure, as I said originally this is not ideal, but is it reason enough to deny a dog a good loving home?

The email quoted by Discodog sounds reasonable, but does not match our experience.

There was no mention of a dog walker or dog sitter or of getting an older dog. We were asked if we could drop in at lunch time and unfortunately this is not possible. The question of whether we could drop in at lunch and leave the dog/s outside was never broached therefore.

Basically there was no consideration of our home at all, and certainly no real effort to match any dog. While I wouldn't say we were turned away on a whim, it certainly didn't match their policy as posted above. And if indeed they operate as Seamus and Toulouse say above, then that is against their policy as stated in the email to Discodog. Sure they have to be careful, but we didn't even get to the stage of a homecheck which I assume is as much about the people as the home and garden. Nor did they make any further enquiries about our history with dogs except for asking if we ever had one.

Thank you for this clarification and honesty.

If you look back at other threads when folk ask re getting a dog, when they are out all day?

Most will say, better not, for the dog's sake. Maybe an older dog; maybe leaving a dog who is used to you..... But the majority will respond as the Dog's Trust did?

Listing numbers of hours does not help, does it? It is the fact that the dog will be left alone that would worry them.

So why not just move on to other rescues? What is done is done now; if another trust is happy with you, then you have a dog and the dog is with you. The decision is made - period.

Nozebleed · 15-11-2010 7:30pm

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Discodog · 15-11-2010 7:34pm

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Mine are during a walk but if they go out for a pee they rush back in as soon as possible.

You can't make sweeping generalisations.

15-11-2010 7:36pm

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

what a ridiculous generalisation

mosi · 15-11-2010 8:58pm

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

This myth that all dogs are better off outside really annoys me. I live in an apartment and my terrier is perfectly happy. He has lots of toys that he loves running around with and there is almost always somebody at home with him. He gets walked at least 3 times a day and when he is not playing, he is very content to sprawl out on the sofa.
Even when given a choice to go out to a garden, as when I visit my parents, he prefers not to be out by himself. If I let him out for a late night pee when there, he prefers that I come out with him and will make a dash for the door as soon as I turn to go back in.
He is a rescue and I know some of his past - he was kept outside a lot and received very little attention from his previous owners. Now though, he is safe and warm, and very happy to spend as much time as possible with his human pack. We are moving to a house soon, but this lifestyle won't change as he is very much an indoor pet.

Sigma Force · 15-11-2010 10:16pm

Agree on paper it might look like the same old same old but rescues need to get to know people a bit better and take the time to ask more questions and be a little bit flexible. Ok rescues have their own individual policies but at the same time shock horror dog owners need to work to shock horror pay for things like dog food, vet bills etc. these things don't come free.

I am all for rescues being ultra careful and I highly admire rescues like dogs trust they are a huge asset to this country. But to rule people out because they work is nuts. Now ok can understand them not wanting the dogs outside and to be honest when you're away dogs will be just as bored outside as in, they don't go around sniffing all day if they are out they lie down and wait of mooch about just the same if they were in.
If a dog is kept out there is a risk of the barking annoying neighbours or the dogs could be a temptation to thieves so on this point I can totally see why dogs trust turned OP down.

But surely there is a middle ground, are people allowed to appeal to rescues in general if they feel they didn't explain their situation properly or if they feel they can change something like housing, where an animal will be when you are out etc.

I don't work and shock horror I can manage to leave the house you cannot be with your dog 24/7 wether you work or not.

I'm not wanting to down dogs trust I support them whenever I see their stand, as I said they are a huge asset but I just felt a bit narked because perhaps if they were offered a second interview or an appeal they might be able to work something out between them and be able to rehome a dog.

Sigma Force · 15-11-2010 10:18pm

Just wondering what happens if someone adopts a dog from any rescue that doesn't allow you to adopt if you work, if the person is out of work and adopts a dog then eventually gets themselves a job ..the dog isn't taken off them so the whole thing is a bit ridiculous.

Discodog · 16-11-2010 1:24am

Sigma Force wrote: »

But to rule people out because they work is nuts.
But surely there is a middle ground, are people allowed to appeal to rescues in general if they feel they didn't explain their situation properly or if they feel they can change something like housing, where an animal will be when you are out etc.

The email from the Dogs Trust makes it clear that this is not the case. You could not rehome 1000 dogs per year by being overly choosy. I am sure that anyone who is turned down can speak to the DT.

kopfan77 · 16-11-2010 9:59am

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Not true.....dogs are no different to us....each one is different. Just like some people are the outdoor type and some people are happiest snuggled up in their sitting room, some dogs prefer to be outside and some prefer to be inside. Each dog has to be taken on an individual basis

portgirl123 · 16-11-2010 10:27am

kopfan77 wrote: »

Not true.....dogs are no different to us....each one is different. Just like some people are the outdoor type and some people are happiest snuggled up in their sitting room, some dogs prefer to be outside and some prefer to be inside. Each dog has to be taken on an individual basis

Sort of agree, but i think it depends where they get used to. my first 2 dogs i have where always treated as indoor dogs, so now they happily go out to toilet and during the winter that is that. During summer they like to sunbathe. though as soon as they have had enough outside they let me know when to come in. my third girl was a rescue who id say was a outdoor dog. been with me 6 months or so now, she loves been in. hard to put her outside. At first when we got her she hated been inside. so i think myself its what they get used to and by my little girl attitude they can easily attapt to what they think is more comfy for them

sionnaic · 16-11-2010 10:45am

Discodog wrote: »

The email from the Dogs Trust makes it clear that this is not the case. You could not rehome 1000 dogs per year by being overly choosy. I am sure that anyone who is turned down can speak to the DT.

Well they were pretty adamant about refusing us based on a 3 min conversation and a quick scan of our application form. We were given no indication that there was any leeway. And it's not like we looked or sounded dodgy or anything!! Two more boringly average normal looking middle class type people you never did see...

And regardless of their policies (which they are entitled to) - they can insist on only rehoming to the most ideal homes if they wish and more power to them (even if I don't agree with it) - but what I can't excuse was their attitude towards us...that really upset me. We both walked out of that centre feeling like crap and more than a little stunned at their reaction.

seamus · 16-11-2010 10:48am

portgirl123 wrote: »

Sort of agree, but i think it depends where they get used to.

Absolutely dogs are generally creatures of habit - a lot like people are. If a dog grows up living outside and sleeping in a kennel outside, then they will tend to prefer that over being confined inside the house. If a dog grows up living inside, then outside is for sniffing and playing and inside is "home".

My own Staff was rescued from a place where she was being left for hours (if not days) on her own. We don't know the exact specifics, but we reckon she was left in a back garden with very little to do. She spends 22 hours a day now inside the house. She loves to go outside and sniff around - but only if there's someone with her. If we take her down to the inlaws, put her in the back garden and go inside, all she does is spend her time looking for us, before sitting dejected on the step and whimpering every so often.
If we're outside and it starts raining, she freaks out. She'll sprint straight home and into the house. Rain seems to trigger some really horrible memories/feelings for her.

So to say that "dogs are happiest outside" is like saying that "people are happiest in groups". It's true for some, but definitely not for all. My dog is happiest when she's dry and has company. Inside or outside doesn't matter.

andreac · 16-11-2010 11:08am

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Sorry but i disagree, some might be alright but most arent. They prefer to be indoors with the company of their owners.
Mine just about like to go outside for the loo and are straight back into the house.
My dogs much prefer being inside with me:) so you cant say that about all dogs.

Can't rehome a dog from Dogs Trust because we work

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