GAA Football Teams to Watch in 2015

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A lot of it has to do with the provincial draw and whether that draw is seeded or not.

In the qualifiers the team that loses a provincial semi-final enters the qualifiers at Rnd 2, which means that they have to win 3 games to get to a AI QF
Teams that lose a provincial final however enter the qualifiers at Rnd 4 and only have to win 1 game to get a to a AI QF

So in the case of Munster 2014 where both Kerry and Cork were seeded teams like Tipp and Clare had to win 3 games to get to an AI QF
But if they were not seeded and Kerry v Cork was a SF game then teams like Tipp etc could get to a Munster final and then be only one win away from an AI QF.
So the key is to remove the seeding.

Munster is not seeded in 2015 but Cork and Kerry do have byes to the SF stage

But Cork & Kerry can draw each other in the Semi final! Important to point out.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

when you look at counties like Clare, Tipp, Cavan and one or two more, is there anything that can be done for these counties in terms of championship? they are at that level where they are not good enough to be in the top flight, but likewise they are too good for the "lesser" teams (Leitrim, waterford, carlow, antrim etc etc)

they generally leave the provincial championship fairly early as they constantly are drawn against the big boys and then after such big efforts, go out in the qualifiers against other big teams (clare beaten by Kildare and Tipp beaten by Galway for example).

i wonder, could a round robin championship be set up to replace the first two rounds of the qualifiers, to give teams at least 3 championship games, as opposed to just 1?

so you have 4 groups of 4, played off over 3 weekends and the top 2 teams in each group, then goes into the next round, where they playoff then to meet the 8 losing provencial semi finalists who themselves would have their own group to make things a bit more fair and interesting?

A round robin within the Championship at Qualifier stage is just further complication.

It's a pain for those counties but look at Tyrone this year? Same sort of situation. It happens. The best will rise to the top (Cormac Reilly excluded :P),

So if Tipp and Clare want to be in the QF stage they are going to have to beat someone else to get there whether that is Waterford, Wicklow or Tyrone.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A lot of it has to do with the provincial draw and whether that draw is seeded or not.

In the qualifiers the team that loses a provincial semi-final enters the qualifiers at Rnd 2, which means that they have to win 3 games to get to a AI QF
Teams that lose a provincial final however enter the qualifiers at Rnd 4 and only have to win 1 game to get a to a AI QF

So in the case of Munster 2014 where both Kerry and Cork were seeded teams like Tipp and Clare had to win 3 games to get to an AI QF
But if they were not seeded and Kerry v Cork was a SF game then teams like Tipp etc could get to a Munster final and then be only one win away from an AI QF.
So the key is to remove the seeding.

Munster is not seeded in 2015 but Cork and Kerry do have byes to the SF stage

I didn't realise that the seeding was removed already. Thank fupp for that.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Obviously, that's why I said it was not seeded but they both have byes.

It wasn't that clear. A quick read could indicate that they are in opposite sides of the draw with the bye.

What chances they will be drawn apart?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What chances they will be drawn apart?

50/50 of Kerry playing Cork or not playing Cork

There are 4 SF spots - Kerry and Cork have 2 of them - once Tipp, Clare, Waterford and Limerick have played there will be two of them - all four put in the bowl and pulled out at random so 50/50

The thing is Kerry and Cork have the bye to the semi-finals on the basis of being Munster finalists this year.

If Kerry are drawn against Cork it will mean that one of Tipp, Clare, Waterford or Limerick will get to the Munster final this year, which will mean a bye for them to the semi in 2016.

Personally I'd prefer if the finalists didnt get the bye to the semi and it was a complete open draw so that Kerry would have the possibility of an extra game as I'm a big believer that there is nothing like playing championship football to help in developing top footballers.

harpsman wrote: »

Good points-in fairness theyre all closer to 30 than 35 so if theyre fit and their personal life allows Id say most of them will give it 1 mor year, except McFadden(I hope:D)

The thing is they a lot of the lads listed have a world of ball played - sometimes you have lads on county teams who might only have got on there at 23/24/25 but a serious chunk of those lads are looking at 12th/13th/14th years of intercounty.

It's one thing for a lad of 22/23/24 to be playing intercounty but once you get over the 30 mark it's nearly a whole different kettle of fish in terms of personal commitments.

And it's not as if Jim will be making any allowances for them in training I'd imagine....

You could argue (if you were looking to start an argument) that Jim hasnt exactly done great in developing the next generation/deepening the panel depth. I honestly don't know one way or the other not having a clue of what other sort of talent is available in the county (and besides it something that comes very far down the list in terms of judging GAA managers for the most part [Micko ahem])

The thing is that people will look at the minors getting to the final and be expecting them to be pitched straight into senior intercounty next year as opposed to in 3 to 5 years when they will be physically ready.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Also, when were the seedings for 2015 removed from Munster?

Was confirmed at a Munster Council meeting about 2/3 weeks back.

Edit: Also the seeding/non-seeding/bye setup of the Munster Championship has been pretty much always been decided by Tipp, Limerick, Clare and Waterford on the basis of what best suits them given they always have the majority, so if you have any complaints in that regard you can send your strongly worded letters to the Munster Council reps from those counties.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cheers. Completely missed that.

I thought it may have happened whilst I was in Canadia.

---

Did they give a reason? Given that it was the smaller counties who wanted the seeding in the first place?

The footballers within the counties went ballistic when the seeding was announced, obviously having not been consulted.

keane2097 wrote: »

The footballers within the counties went ballistic when the seeding was announced, obviously having not been consulted.

Since when did the Provincial Councils give a shoite about the players?

Well, whatever the reason it should remain as is.

In a province as small as Munster and with the Qualifier series in place it seems rather unfair to seed the previous years finalists. But it is what it is I suppose.

keane2097 wrote: »

Since they threatened to boycott the Munster Championship I'd imagine.

Didnt turn up for any of the Munster Council launches and said mean things about the Munster Council and no players would play in the inter-provincials (how will the poor competition survive)

I'd say Dublin's odds are definitely influenced by the population in Dublin - they're also helped by the weakness of Leinster.

Likewise the Ulster teams are probably priced out a bit as they are a number of tricky teams up there. I could see the odds on some of the Ulster teams change a bit if they get a kindish draw (all the other big names on the other side for instance)

I definitely don't think there is any value whatsoever in backing any of the big names now - wait until the league is started and the retirements situation is known at the very least. I'd say it would make more sense to wait until the league is over and then back likely All-Star candidates among those you believe are likely to win and hope they don't get injured.

I would not bet on Kerry at them odds.We were lucky this year everybody knows that. We will lose 2-3 players. Dublin has to be the form team. Would not expect much of Kerry next year won a lucky AI this year.

If the Draw goes wrong and they lose to Cork they could get knocked out in the qualifiers. Dublin are rightly the shortest odds every body know that they are the best team in the country. Mayo and Cork are next and next and Jim will work his magic with Donegal. I even reckon that Galway or Tipp could do better than us. Kerry will be lucky to make quarter-finals

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would not bet on Kerry at them odds.We were lucky this year everybody knows that. We will lose 2-3 players. Dublin has to be the form team. Would not expect much of Kerry next year won a lucky AI this year.

If the Draw goes wrong and they lose to Cork they could get knocked out in the qualifiers. Dublin are rightly the shortest odds every body know that they are the best team in the country. Mayo and Cork are next and next and Jim will work his magic with Donegal. I even reckon that Galway or Tipp could do better than us. Kerry will be lucky to make quarter-finals

There could well be a hangover after this years success but I think your pessimism is overstated. We will very likely get off to a slow start, pull our legs through a few games that we should really be winning at a canter, and maybe fall at the quarter or semis depending on who we draw. A kind draw could see us in another AI final though. There should be plenty of hunger in that young team and we will hopefully be welcoming cooper and Walsh back assuming they are fit.

I agree we were incredibly lucky this year, especially against mayo but I think we'll have a stronger panel for 2015, while mayo and Donegal could regress a little depending on retirements etc. Dublin are a serious team and I wouldn't fancy us beating them, Donegal did us a major favour this year by knocking them out.

harpsman wrote: »

Cork 8/1-wouldnt back them at that. Monaghan 50/1-seems long.

Yeah -I agree on Cork - they're my tip for relegation from Division 1 with 4 away trips up north.

The record of teams who get relegated in the league tends to be awful in the championship (Armagh were a notable exception this year) - if you look at how the teams who were relegated from Division 1 do in the championship the same year it tends to be very very poorly.

Their performance against Mayo I think will stop people looking too closely at their season but really they had a very poor year in the championship with the Mayo performance being very much the exception as opposed to the norm. They managed to win the game against Tipp but everyone I talked to since said they were haunted and Tipp should have won, out of kindness I won't dwell on the Kerry game, the scoreline against a poor Sligo side was massively flattered by the fact that in the first half Sligo couldnt kick a point to save their life. Even in the Mayo game, which they lost, it was more about the familiar failings of Mayo of being unable to see a game out/taking the foot off the panel and a stunning impact from Donnacha o'Connor off the bench.

You start from there and then you hear all the talk about the camp still being in disarray and a serious chunk of the players with no time for Cuthbert, the whole car-crash that is dualism and it's very hard to see 2015 being a good year for Cork.

Timmyctc wrote: »

Armagh I couldn't care less about cause my granny supports them. Silly oul woman :pac:

I think it will be very interesting to see how Armagh do in the championship this year. Odds are they will be get promoted at a relative canter, but in terms of preparation for playing Ulster championship/having a tilt at Sam, I'd say that Division 3 football would be close to useless. With McGeeney having a 5 year deal, I think there will be very little in the way of expectations next year and most Armagh folk would have been delighted by how the championship went this year but wouldnt be expecting a serious challenge for Sam next year.

By comparison Tyrone have been in Division 1 all along which is far more useful in terms of developing players/preparing for serious championship business. It looks like it could well be Harte's last year so I would be wary that Tyrone could go all out. They also got a fairly harsh draw this year in terms of the Ulster championships and in terms of the qualifiers [they lost by a point to Monaghan and 3 to Armagh and yet went out the same weekend as Cavan, Down and Carlow.] Definitely could be one to watch, especially if the youngsters start to break through.

With Monaghan it will be interesting to see if they can push into the very top level of serious contenders and how they cope with the challenge of being back in Division 1 again. They have 4 away games and 3 home so it won't be easy.
I think a lot of dominos would have to fall their way for them to pick up Sam but I could definitely see them being well capable of taking out any of the serious contenders.

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Yeah -I agree on Cork - they're my tip for relegation from Division 1 with 4 away trips up north.

The record of teams who get relegated in the league tends to be awful in the championship (Armagh were a notable exception this year) - if you look at how the teams who were relegated from Division 1 do in the championship the same year it tends to be very very poorly.

Their performance against Mayo I think will stop people looking too closely at their season but really they had a very poor year in the championship with the Mayo performance being very much the exception as opposed to the norm. They managed to win the game against Tipp but everyone I talked to since said they were haunted and Tipp should have won, out of kindness I won't dwell on the Kerry game, the scoreline against a poor Sligo side was massively flattered by the fact that in the first half Sligo couldnt kick a point to save their life. Even in the Mayo game, which they lost, it was more about the familiar failings of Mayo of being unable to see a game out/taking the foot off the panel and a stunning impact from Donnacha o'Connor off the bench.

You start from there and then you hear all the talk about the camp still being in disarray and a serious chunk of the players with no time for Cuthbert, the whole car-crash that is dualism and it's very hard to see 2015 being a good year for Cork.

A very realistic assement of cork,honest assement.
I am sad to say but you are bang on with that post.